TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Okay, so scheduling. So next week I'm away—

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: —[unclear] Friday. And then I think we were not scheduled for earlier in the week.

CLIENT: Uh uh.

THERAPIST: Okay. I'll need to double check and confirm, but I think that worked for you. I know I have something mid-day Wednesday, 11:55 again. Does that work for you?

CLIENT: On Wednesday?

THERAPIST: I'm sorry, on Tuesday.

CLIENT: On Tuesday the 6th, 11:55?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, that will work.

THERAPIST: Okay. If there's a problem I'll let you know today before I leave, but if you don't hear from me assume it is good. I'm pretty sure that it is fine.

CLIENT: Okay. And then— So I'm going to be away Friday the 16th.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So I won't be able to meet at our regular time then.

THERAPIST: Okay. All right. Let's see, the 16th. So that's two weeks from today.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Could we look at scheduling for that week next week?

CLIENT: Of course, yeah.

THERAPIST: Is that all right? Okay.

CLIENT: I just wanted while we were on the subject.

THERAPIST: No, no, thank you for letting me know. I do like knowing in advance, I'm just a little discombobulated [unclear].

CLIENT: Yeah, no problem. So I talked—so first I talked to my uncle yesterday, and he said that he's available Wednesday the 14th and Friday the 16th and is willing to help. So then called my brother, or texted him, was basically like, "You need to rearrange your schedule to plan to be in Chicago the 14th of August through the 19th of August," or through the 18th, whatever that Sunday is. And I like tell him, "I'm not asking you." Like, "This is the only time that it will get down." You know, and he starts, oh, this and that and the other. It's like it doesn't matter. Like literally this will not get done before September, then you'll put another $500 of all of our inheritance into this storage space of crap we want to get rid of anyway. And he's like, "Well, Uncle Paul went in and just took what he wanted." Yeah, he did do that. But he also took a bunch of shit that he doesn't want that he got packed up, all the china, all the crystal. Or no, he didn't touch the kitchen actually, but all of the crystal, all of the silverware. You know, like yeah, there's a lot more stuff there and he probably didn't take as much as he could have, but then his thing is, well, who's been taking everybody to the doctor for the past ten years every week? Which he actually is right about. You know, I mean, it's like you guys can't feud over who— And I'm like, "You're both resentful for different reasons." [3:15]

So okay, I'm using my last few vacation days that I have banked right now to do this fucking thing, and I'm going to go about Tuesday night, spend the night, and first thing in the morning go with my uncle and start the shit. But my father won't be there till the afternoon. And this is the only time I'm going to Chicago this summer, and it's in the middle of a month that's absurd for me, and I'm now going to be moving twice. So anyway, okay, I arranged that. So that's happened, I've requested vacation when I got in this morning, done. I also called my brother, and I said, "Listen, I don't know who is cheering you on with this idea of starting your own business, but it's a horrible idea to do it without having a full-time job at the same time." And he immediately does this like, "Yeah, you're right. Like I can never do anything anyway. I'll just take the job." And I was like, "First of all you don't even know if that's a guaranteed. I don't know why you're not working right now." And he's like, "Well, I'm painting dad's." And I'm like, "But you're not painting dad's, you're not there." He hasn't been there in like four days. And I'm like, "Secondly I'm not suggesting that you don't have a business. Don't be such a baby about it." Like, "Oh, I'll never do anything." Like that's so obnoxious to say. Like I'm giving you valuable advice, which is that I think it's great if you want to start a dog walking business, and quite frankly it could save your life for all I know. But, you know, you can't expect—and I said, "And why haven't you gotten a job since you've been fired? Regardless of if you're going to take the [unclear 4:47] or whatever." And a car is nowhere near the first step that needs to be made. You know, what's going on, you know? [4:55]

And he gets all down. "Well, I can't even [unclear]. Well, this friend of dad's, I thought she was going to have work, but she's like just giving me advice and says she could send me clients." And I was like, "That's fine, but she's also your potential competition as well, you know, so you've got to think of it that way and think of it as a networking resource and somebody to help you if she's willing, and that's great. But you can't just take a suggestion that somebody has, ‘Oh, you should start your own business. Why are you working for somebody else?' You know, you can't just take that and then be like, ‘Well yeah, I'll do that.'" So I said all this, and he's all depressed, got off the phone. I said, "Tell mom to call me when she's done working." She called me when she's done working. She's all, "He doesn't tell me what you said, he just told me to call you." And then I said, "Well, I don't know what to do, I'm freaking out. I don't know why he doesn't get a job. Who told him this was a good idea?" And she's like, "Well, you know what, quite frankly I'm [unclear 5:48], so I don't even care anymore, and I don't care what he does. And I told you like a few weeks ago, yeah, you should start looking for a new roommate. So you better start looking for a new roommate so I don't have to tell you that. I'm done. I'm not in control of alcohol, I'm not in control of Michael, so I just need to quit." She's calling him—wait, so he's your addiction? Like I don't understand. Like yeah, we all know you're not in control of alcohol, that's clear, okay. But what the fuck does that have to do with Michael? And if she's looking at it that way no wonder she's all fucked up about it. She's like, "I'm at the end of my rope." And then she says, "So you need to find another roommate, but all I know is come September 1st he can't live here anymore." I go, "Where does that leave me then?" She says, "I don't know, but I'm done." And that was it, end of conversation. Okay, fine. [6:40]

This morning we had a slightly better conversation where she was just like, "I just don't know what to do about him anymore, I don't know what to say, I don't know what to do, but he can't live here. I don't know what's going on," blah blah blah. My father—I basically called my father to be like, "Dad, listen, so if Michael's not able to pay his rent or bills are you going to pay it?" And he kind of said, "Well, maybe for a little while." "Because if the answer is no at any given point I can't [have him living here? 7:12]." So then his suggestion also was that I need to give Michael an ultimatum and start searching for a roommate. So like now they're even just like, "I don't know." I mean, I don't think that this was a good idea, I don't think he was advised, I don't think he thought about it. I think everybody assured me, yeah, he could pay the rent, but I don't think he can. I think him getting out he needs to be in a house with a bunch of people where the rooms are, you know, four or five hundred dollars and he figures it out from there. [7:40]

I wrote him an e-mail that said, "I'm writing you an e-mail because it feels less confrontational because you seem to have a hard time talking to me on the phone." Everything he takes as a confrontation. And I basically laid it out. Like, "I haven't seen you do anything." Like, "You're still smoking cigarettes and weed in the house." Like, "Mom's patients smell weed when they're coming in for appointments." Like that's not cool, you know. There were the people in the basement, like whatever. "You're still laying around all day. I'm telling you I don't understand this job thing, and I think you should yeah, start your own business, but also work at the same time. And in the meantime when you're waiting for this possible job to maybe come through again—" when he starts in September, whatever, like, "—you need to walk around to Stop & Shop and get a job bagging groceries, or be putting up signs, ‘Experienced Dog Walker in the Area.'" Like, "You don't need to be buying a car, you don't need to be spending any money." And I guess he said to my mom, "Well, you know I have that two grand saved." So what, you're going to live off that and then you have nothing? That's two month's living expenses, you need to hold onto that buddy. So she's not letting him touch that money. Oh god, and he says to me—this was the kicker, he says to me, "I just am sick of—" Wait, did I tell you this yesterday? I don't think so, I must have talked to him yesterday.

THERAPIST: No, I don't think so.

CLIENT: "I'm sick of not being in control of my money." I was like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" And I said this to him. I said, "Michael, I'd kill for somebody to be in control of my cash flow." For somebody to be like, "Okay, your bills are all paid, here's your cash for the month, figure it out." That'd be amazing. Because then— And he doesn't see that. It's just, "I'm sick of—" It's like, "No, you're getting a big boost in life with this if you can manage yourself otherwise." But for him it's just like a roadblock or whatever. And so I wrote him this e-mail and basically told him that I'm going to start looking for roommates, and if he can get himself a job and figure out what he wants to do in the next week then maybe I'll change my mind. But otherwise he needs to start looking for rooms for, you know, what he can afford and get himself going without us holding his hand. Because I just foresee that it's just gonna be he's moving out of my mom's house and into mine, and it's gonna be the same thing. He's gonna get fired, he's gonna— And then especially if my father is gonna help him. Like maybe I want the answer to be no, he won't help him, because then it's like a no brainer. Because even if he's helping him, then Michael gets comfortable with that. I mean, what am I gonna be cooking everything? I'm just— [sighs] [10:15]

I just feel like I can't catch a break. And I know that sounds stupid, because like I buy stuff and like have a house and whatever, and I'm trying to count my blessings. But it's just like one fucking thing after another right now, and it's relentless, and it feels relentless, and it feels—it just feels like that. And you know, Sergio, I haven't really been seeing him or dating him, but he's like been checking in and telling me that he's thinking about me and that he hopes things, blah blah blah. He's being very nice generally. And last night he had called me and I told him, "Sorry I didn't answer." I messaged and I said, "Sorry I didn't answer. I was dealing with some family stuff," and whatever. He was like, "You don't have to worry about it ever. Just I was calling to see how your day was going," and blah blah blah. And I explained to him what—you know, I said, "Unfortunately I'm looking for a roommate again I think," and this and that. And he said to me, "I wish you could get a break from having all this stuff that you're dealing with. I really wish that for you, that things that could just go smoothly." And it felt really nice to hear that, because nobody has really said that to me I realize. [breaking up] Like even Stephanie, you know, like helping me out with stuff and giving me advice and whatever, like nobody's said that to me, like, "Wow, I really wish things would start to go a little more smoothly for you." I mean, people have said, "Oh, I wish you'd had more—" Like looking for a job for so long, or like I wish this, or—but nobody's really genuinely said just like, "Damn, that sucks that you're dealing with this, I wish you weren't." You know, "I wish for you that it gets easier soon." [pause] And, you know, now I'm searching for a roommate again.

THERAPIST: Did you parents co-sign the lease?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: So you and your brother are the only two on it?

CLIENT: Why? You're wondering how I even got it? Or…

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess it doesn't make sense to me that anybody ever would have thought he could have afforded it. Like—

CLIENT: Well, because with our combining—because they don't know my debt to income ratio, you know.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So they see my pay stub and it's like, "Ah, his income's not so good but yours is." [13:00]

THERAPIST: And how are your parents thinking this is going to work?

CLIENT: I don't know. I asked her. I said, "You're the one that's in control of his finances, can he afford this?" And they say, "Well, it'll be tight and he'll have to spend less money." Like weed and going out and takeout. But yeah, he can, it's just like he has to wake up and be a grownup. But I'm not sure that he really can even.

THERAPIST: Um… [pause] Uh… you know, I don't really… there's things I don't know about what exactly was said or what the thinking was. But… [pause] Uh… [pause] I guess it just seems to me sort of unfair to you in this very characteristic way that happens in your family with things between you and your brother, and that you've been getting really angry about, where in this case your mother again has this idea about how, well, if he's just different he can do it. You know, as though this time for the first time in ten years he's actually gonna really make it work. And anyway, if he doesn't, who's fucked? You're fucked. Because somebody's gotta come up with the rent.

CLIENT: Mm hm. [14:50]

THERAPIST: So, I mean, [unclear] like she's sort of banning like part of your paycheck on his getting his shit together.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: And I don't know if she and your dad were originally—I had the impression that they were kind of sort of underwriting this for him. In other words, that they had said, "Well, it's not on you, it's on us."

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And now your mom has totally backed out of that, and your dad is equivocating.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Whether it was sort of fuzzier from the beginning. But, I mean, it seems to me like when your mom says that it's not just a statement about her support of him, it's also a statement about fucking you over.

CLIENT: Mm hm, yeah. And I'm not—I don't really understand it.

THERAPIST: I could be wrong, but I don't think either you or she are acknowledging. I mean, when she's saying now—

CLIENT: Well, I don't think she is. I certainly was.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I took it as a—I don't know, it's your problem now. [16:00]

THERAPIST: Right, then I guess [unclear]. [My question is…?] [pause] that she's then really backing out on agreement that she made with you.

CLIENT: Well, she never agreed to like pay anything for him, you know, [unclear]. Everybody just kind of like told me that they think it it'll work out, and I guess I mean everybody just assumed that stuff will get paid like it always has for him. But… [pause] I don't know.

THERAPIST: So it was kind of also sort of fuzzy and unclear how that was going to happen [unclear 17:07].

CLIENT: Well, I mean, I said to him a couple weeks ago, a few ago, we had the same discussion about like you've got to show me that you can be a responsible adult, Michael. Like I have to not—you know, you have to be doing this stuff now, like if you really want to live on your own and live with me in this apartment. And he said, "I know, and I'm sorry and I will." And I believed him, and now here I am like giving him another ultimatum, which I'm not even really sure I care to follow through with. And meanwhile babysitting schedule tonight and I was really fucking counting on that money. It kind of is annoying. I mean, I didn't get any packing done last night, so hopefully I'll get some done tonight. But it was just another like, "Really?" [18:00]

THERAPIST: I guess it sounds—it does remind me a little bit of some of the stuff with Franklin.

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: Some of the stuff with Michael starts reminding me a bit of some of the stuff with Franklin, saying it's gonna be different.

CLIENT: Yup. And that's kind of why I'm like seeing it and like wanting to put a stop to it before it starts at this point. And I mean I feel a little worse about it because it's like my brother and I don't want it to be fucked, whereas I don't care if Franklin's fucked.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I mean, I did at a certain point, but you know.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: But at the same time I also recognize that I'm kind of putting a lot on myself in terms of having faith in somebody who's really limited in terms of their abilities to follow through on things for themself, or for their life or those who love them. And so that's kind of why I am like, okay, so August 2nd,, we're moving on September 1st, the end of the month, there's got to be people out there that are last minute needing a room, or their roommate situations fell through. Of course I like kind of somewhat haphazardly responded to like a bunch of like female looking for a thing. And the only person of course that writes back to me already is because I didn't read this whole description, and she's an adult entertainer. So if that's not a problem, and she has no pay stubs and only cash, and she—yeah. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, okay, never mind. But I mean like I did respond to some good ones, but watch those, the ones that don't remind me, and then I put an ad on Craigslist. But now it's gonna be like this desperate search. And my father will cover the rent for me. Like he'll cover the other half of the rent if I can't find a roommate by actually October 1st, you know, because September's already paid. But I mean I know he will because he is now like supporting my back now, and everybody thinks it's a good idea. [20:10]

So okay, fine. But I don't want to have to do that, I don't want to have to put that on anybody, I don't want to put that on the landlord. Like cross your fingers, you know, I'd like to find somebody to resign the lease or take over or sublet. You know, whatever the case may be I'd like to have somebody. Because he's already sketchy, and like Michael's piece.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I'd rather just find somebody now rather than have to deal with a late rent check or I don't know what. Or electricity bill not being—I don't know, whatever. I mean, that would never happen with me ever, like nothing doesn't get paid. But it's stressful. And it's a really busy month already for me, and now I'm also now dealing with this. I mean, [unclear 21:07]. I just I don't get it. [very long pause, three minutes] I think I'm—nothing. I just wish I could live on my— I wish there wasn't always something. Like why is there always something I'm fucking tackling? And I'm not saying like I want it to just be easy and never have issues, but like—it can't just be that I'm moving in a month. It's that I'm moving in a month and now I'm finding a new roommate in a month. [pause] Or it can't just be that I'm only am really getting to go to Chicago once this summer, but I'm going to be moving the whole time and really will only get to see Nora and the kids for like the day of the birthday party on Saturday and that's it. And I can't get back out there until mid-September. You know, like… [pause] I just can't believe Michael's such an asshole and is letting me down like this, you know. He's really very selfish. [pause] [26:00]

I mean, do you think that I'm doing like the wrong thing like by just like discounting him? I mean, I think I did the wrong thing from the beginning by even trying to live with him, but I wanted that apartment and they were not—he was really hesitant about signing the lease with one person, and I know that the other people who put their applications in had already more than one person. [long pause, almost two minutes]

THERAPIST: I think in a way that you're like sort of kind of asking me for support. I mean at least I could sort of figure out for you and sort of take the burden of now having to figure out whether or when or how you screwed up the whole situation with Michael and the apartment.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Which is, you know, item number 763 on the list of things you're having to figure out and deal with and feeling stressed about. And… [pause] Yeah, I mean, I think in a way you [unclear] somehow some like commonality as to how Sergio was. Like being supportive, being nice. Being sorry for what you're having to deal with. Because otherwise I think in a way I would be, you know, just kind of washing my hands of it and leaving you alone with it and maybe making some comment about something to do with it, but not [unclear 31:13] that makes you feel less burdened.

CLIENT: I don't think anything's going to make me feel less burdened except for less burdened at this point, like at this moment at least, you know. [pause] Like I get sad about a lot, and like I feel angry about a lot, and I feel a lot of emotions about a lot. Like there's not too much that makes me have the feeling of just like wanting to go to sleep, and just makes me want to just go to sleep, like I want to just go to sleep. I just want to go home and like crawl into bed and just like put on the air conditioner and that's it, and just like not think about it. [long pause] [33:00]

THERAPIST: Well, I think it may be a little bit of a comment to make you. Like I get [unclear 33:38] more support. Like I don't think you're being critical of me, but I think you're being a frustrated like, uh, I don't feel like you're going to be supportive in a way, or like, okay, I'm going home, I'm closing the door, I'm putting the air conditioner, I'm going to bed. [34:00]

CLIENT: No. Yeah. No, I don't think it's like in response to that. I think it's more just—I don't know. I just really don't know what to think about it. Like what can anybody say really? Like no, I don't want somebody to be like, "Oh well, I told you it was a stupid idea." Like because I already am thinking that to myself, and like you know.

THERAPIST: Well, of course there are things you will consider. I mean, they're just the sort of things that Sergio said, you know. What a shitty piece of luck this was. The fact that Michael actually had a job I think when this all started.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And had had it I think for a while.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: And seemed to like it. You know, I mean, it was actually quite a different situation. But I thought your parents did seem more enthusiastic and supportive of the whole thing then than now.

CLIENT: Yeah. [35:10]

THERAPIST: You know. I mean, I think there are things that someone could say or point out about how—that don't change the current [unclear] a bit. I mean, that's what you're saying, it's like what things is he gonna say that gonna change how things actually are right now? And of course nothing. But what you're dealing with is not just how things are now, you're also dealing with how responsible you feel, how much you're wondering if you fucked up from the beginning and fucked yourself over, how much you feel like this happens to you every five minutes, and so you must have done something to arrange it, or like you deserve it for X, Y or Z reason. I mean, there's a lot people could say in response for sort of that supportive and helpful for feeling so crummy, and those sorts of things I think.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And [unclear 36:17]. And not just about sort of the situation per se, although it's very difficult, but also about the fact that you're responsible for worrying about [unclear 36:40], or feeling like you can't handle it because you have so much other stuff you also have to handle. You know, like other stuff.

CLIENT: Mm hm. [pause] And you know it's like August, okay, and then the summer's over. But like at this point I'm really just like, okay, with everything going on I really just want August to go extremely fast so that I can be moved into this apartment with whoever I'm going to be living with and settled, and just settle in and do my thing in the couple days it takes me to get myself completely moved into a place. And like maybe then I'll start feeling like less in limbo, and just feeling like finally a little bit more, you know—I mean, who knows, maybe I'm setting myself up, because then if I don't then I'm going to be like, "Oh god, I'm still feeling shitty." But I at least feel like if I can—or even not even like hoping that [unclear 38:03] or just like find a good roommate. Like because of [unclear] seeing the apartment possibly until she comes in.

And, you know, just the whole thing that I have to deal with telling the landlord, and just—and I have to deal with finding the like guy—calling the guy that my uncle used to do the moving in Chicago. And it's just like… it feels like I have to do all the unpleasant stuff, you know? [pause] You know, asking people to help me move stuff. And now doing the move alone since I can't anticipate my brother helping if he's not sharing the apartment with me. Or like awake. And it's Labor Day weekend, like nobody I know that—my friends are going to be away, Stephanie's probably going to be [unclear 39:20]. I mean, people—I'm sorry, but really don't like help moving. And like my actual is on Labor Day. Like people are at the beach, or at barbeques, or like literally like squeezing their last minute of fun possibly that they can have in the summer. And maybe I have too little faith in like the few people that I know that might help me, but I'm just—it's not like—I don't want to ask—you know, I just… I just feel really on my own with all of this. [40:00]

You know, my father now is being supportive in terms of like finances and wanting to make sure—he says he's going to give me more money to put towards debt in January, you know, some other stuff, and whatever. Which is all great and very helpful. [long pause, two minutes] And like I'm almost resentful of my roommate, because like she had a friend who made it a room, and she came over and they met and that was it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. That was the end of her search.

CLIENT: That was it. There was no search.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [43:00]

CLIENT: And yeah, my mom did say a few weeks ago that maybe I should find another roommate. But then she also was like, "Well, maybe if you just talk to him and see if he can show you in the next couple weeks what he can do." And then now she's like, "Well, I told you a couple weeks ago not to [unclear 43:12]." She's reporting to me that he's still smoking in the house and everything, so. [pause] I mean, we'll see, maybe we'll have some bites tonight, you know, and I can maybe meet some people on Sunday or something. We'll see. I feel like it's like a lot of people are looking for a roommate, so people can pick and choose. Like the people that could be [unclear] can pick and choose with their responses, you know. I'm hoping that some of them do get back to me though. [44:00]

THERAPIST: Why don't we stop now.

CLIENT: Okay. So I'll see you on Tuesday 11:55.

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