TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi! Come on in!

CLIENT: (sound of unzipping) It's been a whole week, right? (chuckles) (pause) [00:01:08]

I found a little place for myself over the weekend, so I'm supposedly in the process of, you know, moving. (chuckles) But it doesn't really feel... real or, I don't know. I guess I'm still like undecided about it, so... Basically, all the reasons for moving have disappeared or ceased to (chuckles) exist.

(pause 00:01:45 to 00:02:36)

I really wish I could just, you know, make priorities and be set with them (chuckles), instead of like, swinging back and forth. I wish I could be like, stronger in my decisions and judgments. Then not being strong is what, you know, makes me me. (chuckles) So... I suppose I could, I should change, you know. I shouldn't be so like, kind of wishy-washy. (chuckles)

(pause 00:03:23 to 00:03:53)

I mean, I'm just trying to convince myself like, why isn't the idea of... um... you know, independence, you know, seductive enough (chuckles) for me? It should be, because you know, it is for everyone else, it seems. I don't know. I guess the idea of saving me will (ph), might be, or maybe a lot of women, to me, or that would be a lot; whatever. I don't know. Is it more attractive than having independence? So... (pause) So, I've just been (chuckles) looking for excuses to back out, now that I've written the check. So... I guess partly, it's also Chris (sp) saying, "Wait! Wait! Don't go!" So... Or give me that money (chuckles), so I can play (ph). [00:05:08]

THERAPIST: I'm sorry?

CLIENT: Or give him the money, pay him half the rent.

THERAPIST: I don't... understand that. What?

CLIENT: Instead of finding my own place, being roommates with someone else, I should be roommates with him and pay him rent.

THERAPIST: I see. Does he want to be your roommate?

CLIENT: Well, he says, but you know it's like, obviously he wants more. I don't know, I've had... Okay, so a lot has happened since last week. So like, Wednesday, last Wednesday, that's when I told him, I'd been like, telling everything about (inaudible) I kind of... was intimate with someone else and it was like, "I see." You know, he was upset and then we ended up being intimate and then we went out to dinner (chuckles) and then like, it was all confusing and then I was so confused and then this weekend I thought I would just end it with this guy, but I couldn't (chuckles). [00:06:20]

So then, I was just feeling terrible, and I thought... and like, while... That whole time I was looking for places and no one was responding, and then... Friday? Sunday... Sunday or Monday, one of those days... Sunday night like, we were just having a conversation, I'm like denying him, he's like... I don't know; what did he say? (pause) Or I said something, but I can't remember what. But I just got upset and felt, you know, really ridiculous. I started packing my bag, I was like, "I'm just going to go to my Mom's." He was like, and it was like, ten or eleven at night. He said, "Don't go right now! You know, I feel terrible." I was like, "Okay, I'll go next morning." Then when I woke up next morning, I had an e-mail from someone, like they rented out rooms and (chuckles) the only response I got. It said, "Better check out the place." (sighs) So then that made the whole environment, you know, atmosphere between Chris and me slightly less tense or actually even more congenial, you know. [00:07:52]

The place is like really small. (chuckles) It's very bad; it's one room and, but it's in the Square and you know, it's depressing. It is depressing, but I have this challenge in front of me, and like, a dream of how I'll decorate the place (chuckles). I have been dreaming of where I'll put the chair and put, you know, like... So it's like a challenge now, and I want to... or at least the first few hours that I'll spend like creating a challenge, but obviously all the nights I'll have to spend alone and feeling depressed there. Obviously, I haven't thought of family yet. I don't know. Who knows? Maybe I'll run away, run back to Chris or my mom or something. [00:08:44]

So yeah, like Monday, I wrote the guy a check and Chris was like... He was very nice and, you know, like I had just gone to the MSU picnic, so I was also feeling very insecure afterwards so, you know, he was very encouraging and very nice and he said, "Oh, yeah. Go, live by yourself and, you know, have good sex (chuckles) with other people, get on-line and like, date and you know like, I don't know, have a good time, take care of yourself." (chuckles) Then, but then later on like, he, you know, he and I were intimate. I mean, I didn't want to be, but it was just like... I just felt... like I had to (ph).

THERAPIST: You felt... I'm sorry?

CLIENT: No, I just... I just like, when he and I are being intimate, it's not that I want to be, but I just go ahead and do it anyway. [00:09:53]

THERAPIST: Because?

CLIENT: I don't want to say no! (chuckles) (pause) (sighs) It's such a like, it's not that big of a deal. So, during the week, I'm all like, I feel this is a regular pattern during the week, I'm like... steady and stable, more or less, you know. Like, companions with Chris, we, you know, have dinner together, cook together, watch TV together.

Then over the weekend, when this other (chuckles) guy is kind of, you know, it's happened like two times now, I guess. He's, you know, Friday night, he's like, you know, "Come out and..." So I go ahead and do that. I'm really attracted to him and then I'm like, "Okay. This is (chuckles) so ridiculous. I should make a decision or I should at least take a break from Chris, if not completely break it off or, you know, have my own place where I can focus on what I want and not be in this limbo situation." [00:10:57]

So... That was, I guess the reason for having, for moving, for not worrying about money. (pause) I'm not listening to Chris. You know, I'm not taking pity on him, giving him the rent instead of someone else, really because I know what he's going to do. He's going to find a (inaudible), he says, you know, "Give me the rent so I can save up for..." He doesn't need, okay? He, his parents' place is there in Istanbul and, you know, most likely he's going to find an academic job, what else? They give you housing, they give you swanky housing, you know? No matter where he goes, he doesn't need (chuckles). [00:11:55]

THERAPIST: I just, I don't... is he, was he, was that a penalty, that you were going to pay him? Why would you not pay him before, but now pay him? It doesn't make any sense.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because I don't think it's just like roommates. He is going to want to have sex and (chuckles) I'm not going to be able to say no. (chuckles) So it's not going to be like a roommate situation, you know?

THERAPIST: Well, why... why... I don't understand the payment part. Why would you change to paying him that? What would the difference be?

CLIENT: Oh, oh, oh. I guess he meant that I would feel more independent.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: But I wouldn't, because like, I'd still think, you know, it's his place or something. I wouldn't feel free to do whatever I wanted (chuckles) obviously. (pause) I'm not paying him! (chuckles) I'd rather pay someone else! Not because I hate him. I mean, I, when he said that, I was like, "Oh, you know, that's wonderful! I should, you know, help him save up money." But now, I'm like... Well, he doesn't need it! [00:13:03]

I mean, all of us need money, I suppose, but I just think he doesn't need... It shouldn't come at the cost of me feeling attached to him. (therapist responds) If the same amount of money buys me independence and detachment, I'd rather do that than contribute to his, I don't know, retirement fund or (chuckles) something. Yeah, I feel like he doesn't need it. Like, real estate prices in Istanbul are just going up, up, up, up, up! So... He'll be fine.

(pause) Yeah, I'm just a little worried, or weary or confused. So like I said earlier, I wish I could prioritize and then just stick to my priorities instead of shuffling them and being like, "Okay, yeah, I'm not moving." Sex is not a priority, or you know like, whatever, you know? [00:14:12]

THERAPIST: Well, what do you think it is about making a decision, and then wanting to undo the decision?

CLIENT: Just generally? Or this one?

THERAPIST: Either.

CLIENT: (pause) I don't know. I feel like, I feel influenced by other people. I feel, yeah. Just, I am very easily influenced, I think. (pause) Plus, I love living in nostalgia, I always think what I just had was better (therapist responds), so... I completely forget how miserable I was (chuckles). (pause) Whenever I keep thinking, "Am I making the wrong decision? I'm a fool to leave such a nice place, where I don't even have to pay rent," you know. (chuckles) [00:15:12]

THERAPIST: So I also wonder whether, when you make a decision, you're also deciding against something else, by definition. And I wonder if it's just very difficult for you to bear that, that you are losing things. You're gaining some things, but you're losing other things.

CLIENT: I know. I keep getting focused on what I'm losing, instead of what I'm gaining. (therapist responds) I cannot live in the positive side, I have to be in the muck. That really, you know, annoys me when I think...

THERAPIST: Well, I wonder also if it's hard for you not to be able to have two things at once.

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Like, with this, with the guy that you're dating or like, whatever you (chuckles) (client chuckles) want to call it. That you want him, and you want the excitement and the passion; but you also want the stability, and the familiarity, and the structure with both.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I'm trying to see if I can create my own structure. I feel like I could. [00:16:16]

THERAPIST: Sure! But you're still going to give something up. I mean, there is still a loss. I mean, there is a loss of being with Chris. I can't (client affirms) imagine you guys just not having any sort of relationship with each other. But (client affirms) there is a loss. And it seems like that loss feels too much to bear.

CLIENT: I don't know. Do you think so?

THERAPIST: I wonder. I wonder if that's part of it.

CLIENT: Because I don't want to move out of his place? Or cut contact?

THERAPIST: Well, I'm thinking particularly the problem that you (and you pointed out today that it's a pattern, and I agree with you), that once you make a decision, then you like, all of a sudden, start second-guessing. (client affirms) But the act of making a decision is also an act of making against something else. (client affirms) And I wonder if it's difficult for you to bear the fact that you've just decided against something else. [00:17:12]

CLIENT: Probably, yeah. Like, I'm wondering, "Can I really live without this?" Yeah. (pause) I don't know. I'm just like... (chuckles) Like, I feel like the only way to resolve it with me is to figure out what's important to me and just stick with that. Because there is a lot of things that I'm going to want, and some of them are going to be conflicting (chuckles) things. (therapist responds) You can't have familiarity and excitement. I feel like that's something I've learned. I mean, the reason why Chris and I don't have that is because I know him, completely. And why? Because I'm so fucking curious and I have to know every single thing about, you know, as many people as I can (chuckles), you know? I just probe, probe, probe and then, you know, there is no, there is no mystery left, so... It's my own doing, so... [00:18:25]

(pause) But I feel, I feel like what should be important to me is becoming, having as many resources within myself, to not only take care of myself, but to meet all my needs and as many of my desires. Like, yesterday in class, we were watching this documentary. It was completely like... well, it was mostly just about the various economic crashes that have happened in the late 1800s (ph) up until now. I was just thinking, you know like, all I have to do is mention a few things to Chris, and he will completely explain everything to me. Or I wonder like, if I just go up to my professor and say, "Yeah, my boyfriend/ex-boyfriend, he, you know, teaches downstairs and, you know, whatever." And I was like, "No, I won't be able to say that." And then I was wondering what other people in the room, who don't have, you know, an economics professor for a partner (chuckles) you know, how are they interacting with this movie? They're probably making their own minds about it and you know. (therapist responds) Isn't that better than... like... leaning on a partner for... intellectual maturity or something? I don't know... (sighs) Ay, confusing! (chuckles) [00:20:03]

So I'm just like... maybe what's important to me is making up my own mind and thinking for my own self, rather than thinking with Chris and like, relying on his thinking. Does that make sense? I don't know if it makes sense to me, what I'm trying to say. I guess sometimes I wonder that I'll get farther with him, with his brain to guide me, you know? Maybe that's true! But then, I'm like, "No, but it's more important what, the steps I take, rather than the steps he tells me to take, you know?" I mean, how much can you take from the other person, you know? How much influence and how much of it should be your own work, you know? [00:21:02]

Not just intellectually, but in other areas of life as well. Like happiness, for example. I feel like that's been like big lesson that I am learning, that the reason why I was depressed, I am depressed, and I think of, you know, I can think of any name that it's been, you know few years ago with Chris and my mom, and get totally depressed thinking about that. Then I'm thinking, I should have had the resources, even back then, to know why I was feeling that, and to have done something about that, rather than like blaming those two people and saying, "It's because of them," you know, to have absolved them as burdens and that's my own thinking. I shouldn't blame them. (therapist responds) I don't know. I think I went off (chuckles) off topic. Because we were talking about decisions. [00:22:07]

I guess I'm trying to learn what it would be... to make... to, I mean, to make decisions and live with my choices, and specifically some of these situations that I'm in, like not being with someone intellectual, you know. Having mostly chemistry and you know, maybe that petering out after a while, who knows? Yeah, having like, you know, someone to date on the weekends rather than someone who's stable and solid and a companion all the time, you know? (pause) Whatever. (pause) I guess basically what I'm thinking is, if I give up X, Y, and Z, it falls onto me to get those things from elsewhere. [00:23:22]

THERAPIST: Well, you could argue it falls on you anyway. You're still the one in class thinking, even if you have Chris as a boyfriend. He's not the one sitting in class with you. You're not actually borrowing his specific (chuckles) brain. So it falls on you anyway, in some sense. But also, I'm hearing you talk (and I think we've talked about this before), you draw such stark distinctions between things. You can have this thing, or that thing.

CLIENT: Huh!

THERAPIST: You know, it's like, you can have... I guess, you know, you could have a boyfriend on the weekends or a long-term stable relationship, I understand that distinction; but it seems like the long-term stable relationship you imagine is something that's kind of boring and stale. (client chuckles) So you draw these stark distinctions, and then you start to feel very deprived, because you can only have something from one category.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's true. That's kind of wrong.

(pause 00:24:20 to 00:24:43)

Maybe I do think about that, I'm like, "Why do I think that way?" You know, isn't it exciting that we went to Greece, we went to Nepal, you know. That was exciting. (pause) I mean, it sounds exciting! (chuckles) Just because it was with, you know, familiar Chris doesn't mean... Oh. Maybe that's what it means, whatever it means.

THERAPIST: If you're with a person that you have an exciting relationship with, going to the supermarket can be exciting.

CLIENT: Yeah, the (inaudible) is there, like the first... week or so! The first month or so. I mean, it can't last several years, can it?

THERAPIST: It depends on the couple. [00:25:37]

CLIENT: Well, okay. So I do find Chris's company stimulating, intellectually. (therapist responds) So going to the supermarket can be... Well, okay. So then, it have to be the right supermarket, can't be whatever. Can't be like a depressing place, because that will totally override... I feel like it would (chuckles); I don't know what I'm thinking, feeling instead of thinking.

So I feel that something swanky, and he and I can have our, you know, intellectual conversations and you know, I can berate him and you know, that gives me enough kind of engagement to get through the... whatever, the boring (chuckles) process of looking for, buying food. But if it's something really depressing, then I'm just overwhelmed by the depressing-ness of the environment and even Chris's stimulation can't pull me up. Or anyone, I guess. [00:26:46]

(pause) I went to the grocery store with Victor (sp) last year. At that time, I was just totally like, so attracted to him physically that I was like, in a daze the whole time we were shopping, so... I mean, you just brought up supermarkets (chuckles) and just, you know maybe it's two different experiences. And I feel like I'd rather have, you know, Chris's because I know that, that charge, that sexual charge, just goes away.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but it... Well, but again, it's these stark categories. Someone you're not sexually attracted to or someone who you're like electrically charged with (client chuckles), as if those are the only two options.

CLIENT: Well, what's the other option? [00:27:42]

THERAPIST: There are people that you can find, years later, you know, attractive. Maybe it's not electrifying every time (client chuckles), but you know, that you can just, you know... think they're sexy and exciting (client chuckles)... You know, sometimes maybe it's a little boring or I don't know, but... (client affirms) routine, maybe; not, I wouldn't call it necessarily boring, but...

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Well... I've been trying to understand this, that there is, there can be excitement in routine. Like if you've just, you know, been intimate with someone, you are going to have that cloud of affection. But if you haven't been like, you know, Chris and I go through these very like, you know, in Nepal like, the two months are longer, and then when we're back, it's like really like... like our sex life was like this... decrepit, old creature just dying on the street, taking its last breath, almost. So that is why things were so horrible between us, horrible as in, you know, like no conversation or you know like, we were avoiding each other, talking to each other and... [00:29:10]

THERAPIST: In Nepal?

CLIENT: No, like when we got back from Nepal.

THERAPIST: Why were you then avoiding talking to each other?

CLIENT: Well, I guess because we hadn't been intimate in a long time, so... I think Chris was really feeling it when I was feeling what he was feeling so...

THERAPIST: He was feeling rejected?

CLIENT: I guess, yeah. Just not close to me and stuff. But then, after, you know, we'd been intimate now, it's like... now he is, you know, much more affectionate and interested and...

THERAPIST: He may also take that as a sign that you want to be back with him, you know, of course. (client affirms) It's not simply that, that the effect, if the meaning that he's ascribing to it, I imagine, too. (client affirms) I mean, your relationship with Chris is so complicated on so many levels, both in sort of actuality and then in your own experience of it. (client affirms) It's so complicated. [00:30:13]

CLIENT: I mean, I don't understand how he tells me to go and sleep with other men, and then comes back and sleeps with me, you know?

THERAPIST: Well, he has his own problems and complexity. That's the one thing that always strikes me when you describe him as someone who has it all together and so forth. He has a lot of problems, he really does. (client responds) It's hard for you to see that, that on the surface, it seems like he wants a girlfriend or a wife and... but he engages in all this bizarreness and you know. This is not to judge him (client affirms), this is simply to say that he has his own conflicts and problems that, you know, probably would be good for him to work out at some point or if he does or he doesn't, but...

CLIENT: What bizarreness do you mean?

THERAPIST: Well, usually if it's so straightforward that someone wants a wife, they and the person doesn't seem like they're so ambivalent about being with them, they just go get somebody else who wants to be with them. I mean, it's (client responds)... You know, if that's what you want, that's what's important to you, but he gets in... You know, you're playing your role, but he gets embroiled in all of this too. (client responds) (pause) I mean, some people, if they really want a partner and they, their partner seems like they don't know if they want them, they find someone who just wants them and, you know, doesn't go off with other people. [00:31:35]

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, he said that. (chuckles) You know, "I want someone who wants me for who I am." (chuckles)

THERAPIST: But that's the interest/stops/, that's what makes... you know, him complicated and I think troubled, that he says he wants it, but he doesn't do what he says.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Well, maybe if I move up to (inaudible)...

THERAPIST: I think that his problems are far deeper than that.

CLIENT: Hmm. Well, maybe he has insecurities, too; I mean, all of us do. (pause) That is something I need to work on like, just making stark distinctions. Um... But I mean, I guess I do that because I'm just so... I feel things so strongly... (therapist sneezes) Bless you! (therapists thanks) You know? When I feel something it's... it can be very strong, so... (therapist affirms) If I feel X with someone, and it's very strong... (therapist sneezes) Bless you! ...then I feel like can't feel X with anyone else, you know? Like... so... I guess I close myself off to experiencing, I suppose. But I try not to. Like, when I hang out with this guy... (therapist sneezes) Bless you!

THERAPIST: Let me just grab a tissue. Thank you. (blows nose) I'm sorry. You were saying? [00:33:34]

CLIENT: Yeah, no, um... when I hang out with this other guy like, I was looking... Well I'm always looking for people to, you know, to really listen to me and really connect. I think we were sitting in a restaurant and drinking sangria, and I was telling him something that previously I only told people when I like, want to feel very close to them (or at least with Victor I did that). I felt, I really felt at that time I'd given like a piece of me to him when I told him that. But you know, he was just like half-listening, I felt, because he was, you know, drinking (but not texting or anything). He was like, you know, had his head down and he was drinking and eating. He seemed to be casually listening. That would have like completely... at any other point, really pissed me off and put me off and... And I even said, you know, okay. [00:34:37]

Another thing I was thinking, I was saying, "Oh, this is my big news, blah blah." He was like "Uh-huh." And I just felt like... well, that hurt (chuckles), you know. You know, "You're not listening!" But then I thought, you know, it's not even, it's not even important anymore, because... you know, that's how people are. Like, I could be like that, you know? Like, he would say, "This is very important to me." Maybe I would take the cue and go, "Oh, really?" You know, my eyes would, you know, light up and I would show physical signs of really listening.

THERAPIST: (quietly) Absolutely.

CLIENT: But, you know, he doesn't do that so, you know, it didn't make me, it didn't piss me off as much as I thought it would, because... I just don't feel like holding people up to that anymore (chuckles), you know? I don't know. I guess I felt like, you know, it's more important, or it is just as important that I'm feeling this chemistry, that I'm having a good time. If he's not, you know, listening or pouring his heart out, or whatever, it's fine. If it's, you know, if it's at a milder level. Everything doesn't have to match up to that one experience that I had with Victor, where it was just like, telling him something, it was just like the most intimate I've felt with anyone, you know? It doesn't have to go, reach that crescendo. (chuckles) I guess that's also like decisions or you know, choices at least, or not making decisions, you know. I don't know. [00:36:16]

(pause) But I do feel disappointed. So, I mean, like I said like, him not listening as intently, attentively, didn't piss me off. But Chris not exciting me does disappoint me (chuckles), you know. It's like every time it's kind of disappointing, you know? I don't know if I can do anything about that. I guess that's more intimate or more important, right? Like... Well, I guess, what would you rather have or (chuckles) you know, it really becomes that question. (pause) I just wonder if I can overlook that, you know? I don't know. [00:37:37]

THERAPIST: Overlook?

CLIENT: Not being attracted to him. (pause) And wanting... whatever, you know. That kind of stimulation. I never have any of that. (pause) Do you think I can overlook it, or... am I not thinking the right way about it?

THERAPIST: Well, you haven't been able to yet.

CLIENT: Is it that I'm making a stark distinction here, or... [00:38:33]

THERAPIST: I don't know. (client chuckles) I mean, it doesn't sound like you ever felt attracted to him.

CLIENT: I guess, in the beginning, I might have... I must have, you know? We did have a honeymoon period. (pause) It's strange, you know, it is very strange, but like it was you know, like novelty about it, so... (pause) Does this happen with everyone, like they like someone, say intellectually, but they're not sure, because then at that time, not emotion/stops/ like sexually mature so they... and then when they do mature, they realize they don't like that person? I guess that could happen. (pause) But if you are like, when you meet someone, when you are sexually mature... Does that go away? Like, well I guess when you get older, it goes away, but... [00:39:57]

THERAPIST: (chuckles) Why?

CLIENT: So like, when you find someone attractive, is it like a guarantee that you will always find them attractive?

THERAPIST: No!

CLIENT: (pause) No?

THERAPIST: Nothing is a guarantee, though. (client chuckles) What's a guarantee, in life?

CLIENT: But, for like twenty years; how's that? Twenty-five years.

THERAPIST: Is there a book about how many years you can find your spouse attractive? You so desperately look for some sort of template about how things are supposed to unfold.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Well, I think it comes from not having... like parents or you know, older siblings or anyone telling me or setting... Well, there have been examples, I have these people. I could just look at them, but... No one like, guiding, having guided me in the past. (therapist affirms) Because I don't even know my parents' parents. (chuckles) I don't know! [00:41:03]

THERAPIST: I mean, that's certainly, as you say that, it seems like it rings so true, you know, and I appreciate that. I think like, when people don't have something, they fantasize that it's so much more than it is. It's sort of like when someone has a parent die at a young age, as a kid, they have all sorts of (and I think this is perhaps true with your dad; I know he didn't die), that you have fantasies about what a parent is, far beyond what any real human being can be.

I feel like, with you, like you didn't get, you got very little guidance growing up and you were quite isolated, it sounds like, as a family. (client affirms) Then I think from that develops this fantasy that people have all sorts of guidance and all sorts of knowledge that I don't think they have. They sort of find their way and made decisions based on the best knowledge they have, with no guarantees and no "This is how it goes," because there are lots of different ways things can go.

CLIENT: Hmm. That's true. (pause) Absolutely. (ph) [00:42:09]

THERAPIST: Do you think that might be true?

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah. (pause) To some degree, I suppose. I mean, just because, I mean I do feel that I... I mean, I know that other people also have, don't have ideal parents, you know? I know that. And I see other people making mistakes, obviously. (pause) That knowledge is there in my head (chuckles) it's just, from my own sake or my own lack, I feel like... "Why don't I have..." (chuckles) Those two don't talk to each other, it seems! So... [00:43:06]

THERAPIST: You're narrative around this is not simply that you don't have ideal parents and other people might. It seems like it's primarily a narrative about being excluded. (client responds) You know, that everyone has this sort of charmed, beautiful life and you're excluded from it.

CLIENT: Perhaps. (pause) Yeah, that I believe to be true, actually (chuckles). It'd be like, even if they had crappy parents, they were... well, like we were writing our memories in this workshop yesterday. Everyone had like... this, soon after they, we were given sort of a template. They were born, and then you know, their moms and then their dads and then their houses and then siblings, everyone wrote something like that. Whereas I was, you know, half making it up and all, but you know, I wrote something like, you know, my mom's ride on the rickshaw to the hospital with her mom, and then back home my grandfather and aunt getting the place ready for me. [00:44:23]

So... yeah. There was no mention of dad or anything like that. There was no... It's more like (sighs) what everyone's preoccupations were in the family, instead of like... making a home, because there wasn't a father, so... I do feel that I've been mixed a little bit like, even while they're being crappy, they're having a good time (chuckles). Or at least more often than we did. (chuckles) (pause) So I'm trying to tell myself, "It was a good time. It just didn't look like anyone else's, but... It was interesting, you know. It was complex." (chuckles) (therapist responds) I don't know. Maybe I'm lying to myself. [00:45:21]

THERAPIST: Well, Cecelia (ph), we're going to have to stop for today. So I will see you Monday. Wednesday, I was going to ask you, could we start a little bit later, just for next Wednesday? (client affirms and agrees) Um, I think it would be like 10:15? Would you be able, I have something to do in the morning, I'm just pushing... so 10:15 next Wednesday?

CLIENT: So 10:15 on both Monday and...

THERAPIST: No, no, no. Oh, yeah. Monday our regular time. Right. Oh, that's right. Our regular time is 10:15. Exactly! Okay! Great! So I'll see you Monday.

CLIENT: Sounds good. Okay!

THERAPIST: Okay, take care!

CLIENT: You, too. Have a good weekend!

THERAPIST: Thank you very much!

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