TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in.

(PAUSE): [00:01:31 – 00:01:52]

CLIENT: How are you?

THERAPIST: Good, thank you.

CLIENT: I have to pay you for October also. (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Okay.

(PAUSE): [00:02:06 – 00:02:26]

CLIENT: I’m thinking of where we pick up from last time. I don’t remember where we left off. I think I was just talking about Chris’s influences on my thinking.

(PAUSE): [00:02:41 – 00:03:30]

CLIENT: I don’t know what else to say about it. I only know I have to do my own thinking. There is no substitute for that. But it’s been kind of nice guess to have had him to talk to and like formulate ideas with.

(PAUSE): [00:04:14 – 00:04:31]

CLIENT: Yeah, sometimes like when I’m thinking of what I want my future to be like I will only just imagine him, his presence like talking to him and meeting with him but there, I don’t know, there isn’t any romance in that picture.

THERAPIST: How do you mean?

CLIENT: I think I see us sharing like because we’ve already done that for a long time so I can see the future like that extending with us talking and cooking and watching films together, but I kind of cringe or feel queasy when I think of it if romance enters the picture.

THERAPIST: Between the two of you?

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s not like there are moments when there aren’t moments of affection, like physical affection. But like I don’t know, I feel like I have to open that can of worms called my sexuality. I feel it’s also, like everything else, very complicated. I used to think it was complicated as long as (unclear) complicated and then I met this guy and it’s like it’s very simple. It’s very carnal. It’s very like on the surface, you know? So now I’m like conflicted further because you don’t just want to be an animal. You want to communicate and connect and (unclear) stuff.

(PAUSE): [00:06:48 – 00:07:11]

CLIENT: Like with Chris it’s sweet and kind of brings us closer when we’re intimate but it’s like I don’t feel like initiating it. I don’t desire him physically. So I feel like what’s wrong with me. Why can’t I be that way? Why can’t I just fix it, take a pill or something?

(PAUSE): [00:07:48 – 00:09:03]

THERAPIST: (inaudible due to external street noise)

CLIENT: (Unclear) make me want to have sex with him. Make me find him attractive and make me physically close to him and be faithful to him.

(PAUSE): [00:09:34 – 00:10:10]

CLIENT: More than anything else I feel like I have to do my own thinking, but –

(PAUSE): [00:10:10 – 00:10:24]

CLIENT: Have my own space and my own kind of work where it has influence is clearly not there. I don’t feel the need for it. I feel like I can do it on my own. Or not on my own then take (unclear) from everyone except him or you know, at first, but take his help as long as he would be a part of the collective and not just the only person that I can reach out to. And for everything, not just thinking, even emotionally and stuff.

(PAUSE): [00:11:10 – 00:12:31]

CLIENT: We don’t really talk about stuff though like our relationship. We’ve known each other for so long we’re feeling like we’re on autopilot so we don’t really invest much in the relationship, I mean, aside from (unclear) and stuff Chris, and every summer we go (unclear). Two or three summers we’ve gone to Nepal, together, separately, we’re taking those trips together. But even then it’s like we didn’t really like sit down and talk about stuff, you know? Like put everything aside and talk about – because like Chris always has stuff to do and he’s just not saying – he was not brought up that way, he’s just not that way, you know? Like this new guy, like we might have a disagreement or he sees that I’m displeased about something and he’ll try to look me in the eye and say, ‘let’s talk.’ (Unclear).

THERAPIST: Do you know why you don’t use his name?

CLIENT: No. It feels weird.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: Because he’ll become permanent. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: He seems now like an extra in a film.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Like he has no identity.

CLIENT: No. He could be (unclear), I don’t know. (Unclear) triangle. I don’t know which is – I have no idea (unclear). I don’t know yet and he doesn’t know yet so it’s like (inaudible). [00:14:40]

THERAPIST: How is that related to referring to him by name?

CLIENT: Do what?

THERAPIST: You said you don’t know yet. He doesn’t know yet. But I’m wondering what does that have to do with referring to him by name.

CLIENT: I guess I’m embarrassed about him. (inaudible).

(PAUSE): [00:15:22 – 00:15:31]

CLIENT: Like something I’ve done that I’m ashamed of. Also like (unclear) you know, or (unclear) that maybe I shouldn’t feel ashamed.

(PAUSE): [00:15:43 – 00:16:04]

THERAPIST: And what are you ashamed of?

CLIENT: I guess sleeping with him.

(PAUSE): [00:16:11 – 00:16:28]

CLIENT: It’s funny when I talk to other people, friends from school and stuff. They’re all like – their eyes don’t light up or anything when I say any of this because it’s like, ‘yeah, so.’ (Unclear), like that, you know?

THERAPIST: (Unclear) on what?

CLIENT: No, I’m just talking to a friend last night and she was like, ‘I would sleep with as many people as would sleep with me, you know?’ Because I was telling her, ‘oh, I’m so confused. And between these two things I have this (unclear) boyfriend and I’m so scared, such a chicken, I can’t even like break up with him properly. I’m stepping out of that relationship – not stepping out, sneaking out it feels like.’ So she was laughing and saying, ‘yeah, I would sleep with as many people as I could.’ And I was like I’m having a hard time sleeping with just one,’ you know?

(PAUSE): [00:17:37 – 00:17:54]

CLIENT: I feel like I’ve lost clarity, obviously, but maybe what I should have done was broken up with Chris properly and not have had any contact with him and like moved away and then not seen anyone for like a year, you know? Because I’ve known Chris for nine years so that’s like a long, a really long term relationship to completely get over and I should have been like single for one year at least, you know? Like that should have been the way to go but I snuck out because I’m scared and at the same time I want stuff (unclear). I won’t be denied either.

(PAUSE): [00:19:14 – 00:19:34]

CLIENT: But then I’m like, ‘it is what it is.’ I get stuff from Chris and I like things and I like being part of his world. And I need him. And then with this guy I try to break things off and every time I do something happens or I can’t let go and like, or cries or something.

THERAPIST: Can you tell me his name?

CLIENT: Can I make it up?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: Initials?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: Why?

(PAUSE): [00:20:19 – 00:20:23]

CLIENT: Okay, his name is [Nelson] (ph).

THERAPIST: Nelson (sp?)?

CLIENT: Yeah, so now he’s a reality.

THERAPIST: Is that what just happened?

CLIENT: Yes. He’s no longer fiction. I guess I was in denial (inaudible) but yeah so every time I’ve tried to break it off it’s like yeah.

(PAUSE): [00:20:54 – 00:22:05]

CLIENT: I have to figure out how to take birth control and I’m like scared of that.

THERAPIST: What do you mean?

CLIENT: Well, I’ve always been, like it’s invasive or something and involves hormones and whatnot. Plus you have to take it every day and I wasn’t very sexually active until now so now I feel like it’s part of growing up and I’m like scared about it. (inaudible) so simple with Chris because we really didn’t do it very often and when we did he put on a condom and I didn’t have to worry, so. I guess my mind is elsewhere today.

THERAPIST: Elsewhere – meaning not here?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Where is it?

CLIENT: Somewhere. How much time do we have?

THERAPIST: We have 20 minutes.

CLIENT: I’m trying to focus and talk about something serious.

THERAPIST: You don’t think what we’re talking about now is serious?

CLIENT: No, but I’m just like queasy about it or something and it’s not my thing (unclear). I’m nervous. I guess I can talk about (unclear) feelings outside of this. We need to focus on that.

THERAPIST: But you’re talking about something right now that seems really important.

CLIENT: Yeah. We can talk about that later. (Pause) Well, I mean if I had more experience I would know how to evaluate these two experiences better. But I feel that I don’t have. I’m not very sexually experienced so you know.

THERAPIST: Well how would you evaluate them differently than how you are evaluating them now?

CLIENT: I don’t know.

(PAUSE): [00:24:55 – 00:25:12]

CLIENT: I would see more clearly and from a better perspective and people who have more experience I feel they think differently, like the girl I was talking to last night, she’s like, ‘I want to be in a stable relationship,’ and this and that and I’m like, ‘I’m just getting out of one. It’s so stifling for me. Like I lost my independence and it’s boring and all.’ So, you know? I feel like I should be like that at my age. Pretty soon I should be like that looking for stability and not like not (unclear) and I feel like I’m missing that because of my sexuality. You know because everyone says, you know, ‘sex isn’t everything.’ Like all the other things matter and I’m like, yeah, you know, maybe if I had all my wits about me and I wasn’t in a stupid phase or I wasn’t all hormonal, I would be – I mean look at this guy. He’s not an intellectual. He makes money and he’s not very political or concerned about social issues. So I would totally like not even be friends with him. I feel like I ignored all that because I was attracted to him. So now I’m like (unclear).

THERAPIST: Like you’re being a silly adolescent?

CLIENT: Yeah. Just like throwing my life away, the life I so carefully and painstakingly built with Chris. Because you know he’s the right guy, the right guy, you know, this – so it means political, he’s concerned with social issues, he’s an academic, he’s an intellectual. He’s got good taste. He comes from a decent family. He’s kind and above everything, he loves me. So you know – you don’t throw that away.

(PAUSE): [00:27:51 – 00:28:00]

CLIENT: But then I’m like, ‘wait a second, I didn’t throw it away. I stepped away from it because I’ve lost sight of myself.’ All I could see was him and I forgot what my dream was or I (unclear) but like I had to make myself a priority. And once I did that I really like what that means.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: And it becomes very selfish I feel like, this narrative and I don’t like that everything’s about me and like you know it’s like a corporation or something like that. Like okay, so you want x done so you’re going to go to the market and get the best. Like you said, oh my drains are clogged so you’re going to go and get the best material from the market – not something that you feel affection towards or something your friend made at home. You’re going to get the best money can buy and that feels like it.

THERAPIST: (Unclear) when you think about sort of fulfilling your needs you start thinking about transactions.

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s not transactional?

THERAPIST: Well, that’s how you think about it.

CLIENT: (Unclear) needs like that.

THERAPIST: I guess I’m not sure how you’re thinking. I don’t know how to answer that question.

CLIENT: Well, I mean needs as opposed to what?

THERAPIST: Well it seems when you’re thinking about getting needs met they’re very like – it’s not the person. It’s the function they serve.

CLIENT: How do you mean?

THERAPIST: Like you’re not getting your needs met from a person. You’re getting your needs met by material. This person serves this function. This person – it’s no longer about the other person. It’s about the function they serve for you in a very sort of narrow sense.

CLIENT: I don’t know what you mean.

THERAPIST: Well, let me ask it in reverse. Why would looking for someone who fulfills needs be transactional? What about that is transactional?

(PAUSE): [00:30:33 – 00:30:58]

CLIENT: I don’t know. It feels base. There is an aspect of selfishness about it as opposed to selflessness. I don’t know, it feels very direct and very – I don’t know. I’m trying to think.

(PAUSE): [00:31:31 – 00:31:57]

CLIENT: I guess I feel that way in everything. I mean, in every other context of a relationship. Like when my mom would ask for rent or something or feel like everything else is out the window. It’s just about this. The taking of my money and all affection would go away from that moment. It was just a small moment but just the feeling of that moment would be like a stinky blanket covered everything else for days and days. And like yeah, asking Chris for things or like going out on dates and having guys pay for you and that also felt transactional. I don’t know. I hate like money matters and like stuff. I hate when money comes into the picture. It’s like it always debases things. One time my dad said to me like (inaudible) he was trying to get me admitted into this school and the schools in Nepal in some places they ask for a donation. So he paid the donation and it wasn’t that much compared to like the donation my dad’s brother paid for his daughter – like 10, 20 times in comparison. But anyways, I remember my dad like lying on the bed and like saying, you are very expensive. You just take so much, you know. And I remember when I was like 13 or so and I was like internally laughing because I was aware of that narrative that it was my mom always taking care of me and he wasn’t even there to take care of me or us, you know, like monetary. And so the first time he did it I told it right back. But I also felt like horrible about myself, like I’m a great burden to my parents. I always knew I was. I was told I was, like an emotional burden, but it was like at that moment it was like clear that like all of my 13 years I have been a financial burden as well.

THERAPIST: Would your mom tell you that? That you were an emotional burden?

CLIENT: No. Nothing like that but I think as recently as two years ago she would have that narrative, like her marriage ruined and everything and so. I don’t know if that’s like subconsciously behind stuff right now when money comes into the picture or like people are like paying for my dinner or something, maybe it’s there very quietly, me feeling like a burden. I don’t know if that’s related to me in those transactions, but like it feels base to think in those terms. Is that what you meant? Like, why do I think in terms of needs or?

THERAPIST: In terms of transactions and needs.

CLIENT: As opposed to how would I think – like desire or connection?

THERAPIST: Connection, value.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know that moment you described the ‘dirty blanket cover,’ if you feel in that moment that the only reason you have value for your mother is that you give her money for the rent, that’s a transaction. If you feel that, A) she would be okay if you didn’t give her the money; she would still feel the same about you and that giving the money in the context of a much larger relationship and connection between you two, it’s not a transaction. A transaction is you only exist in that moment for that transaction that’s occurring and that’s all you are to each other.

CLIENT: Actually, what’s worse is the fact that when you described all that I could clearly see my uncles writing her checks – her brothers, and like for years and years I feel like my dad would just hound her – this was in Nepal and he (unclear), but he would hound her to write to them and ask them for money and she would absolutely hate it. Like that was the one thing that she hated the most to be a burden on her brothers. I mean their doctors here and are relatively well off but that was the most debasing moment. And I witnessed them writing a check and giving it to her and that’s when the whole matter of the victim/martyr and everything was acutely very, very that way.

THERAPIST: Do you feel they experience it as a burden? Are they resentful about giving her money?

CLIENT: Well, if they are they’re not emotional. They’re not affectionate. They don’t really call that often and speak to us lovingly about what they’re going through. It’s always like a quick check up. Are you still there or not? Or at least that’s what our dad would tell us too. Look they don’t really care about you, but they just call to make sure you’re still alive or whatever. Just because it’s like their guilt, or whatever. All negative stuff.

THERAPIST: But that’s a transaction, too.

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: Like someone calling just to make sure you’re alive, not because of sort of brotherly or sisterly love.

CLIENT: Yeah. And like my mom has consciously or maybe not so consciously tried to change that. Like she calls them on festivals and holidays and birthdays and they try and do that a little bit. But yeah I really don’t want them to give us money anymore and they haven’t for years, which is good.

THERAPIST: Does she have two brothers?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: They both live here? And they’re both physicians?

CLIENT: Like they’re in medicine and different stuff.

(PAUSE): [00:40:23 – 00:40:32]

THERAPIST: What does that mean?

CLIENT: Oh no, they’re not physicians. One is an anesthesiologist. Another one used to be a heart surgeon.

THERAPIST: That’s a physician.

CLIENT: Oh. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: A physician is just a very general term for any kind of doctor.

CLIENT: Oh, okay. I thought it was not general. I thought physician meant -

THERAPIST: No, usually physician is just basically the same word for a doctor.

CLIENT: Okay. I thought it was not.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well there’s an internist which more specific like a (unclear) anyway.

CLIENT: Oh, okay.

THERAPIST: But your mom’s brothers are significantly more affluent than her I would imagine with a significantly better lifestyle. Do you think that she felt – how did she feel about that?

CLIENT: She has different narratives. Sometimes she would say – like she’s always telling the story that like so when the older brother – older as in like – they’re both younger than her but amongst each other, but when he was sitting for medical exams she sat with him or something like that but didn’t pass by like two or three marks and then she sat again and then she would have sat a third time and her score kept increasing but she didn’t sit a third time because she didn’t want to compete with her youngest brother so – There’s that narrative that, ‘oh, I had to give up stuff,’ which is probably not that untrue because like in Nepal, you know, women do have to take a seat back for their brothers and whatever, so. And then she’s like, I used to draw all these diagrams and I would help him with his homework and so there’s that and –

THERAPIST: The scorned tutor.

CLIENT: Yeah. Not that scorned but -

THERAPIST: But needing to be sort of subservient.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: To someone else’s needs.

CLIENT: And if she were happily married, it just wouldn’t have mattered so much that they were so much (inaudible).

(PAUSE): [00:43:02 – 00:43:07]

CLIENT: But I think she’s turning around in the sense that she has things in her life now that make her happy a little bit, so –

THERAPIST: She’s been talking about that?

CLIENT: Well, I mean like her poetry and her friends and like her – right now it’s stressing her out about her school. And when, very rarely, right now it’s rare, but earlier it was more frequent, but when people compliment her because of me – I always liked that. And then she has (unintelligible).

THERAPIST: Do you talk to her about it?

CLIENT: No, not that much but then like she’ll call and I’ll be at Nelson’s (sp?) place and she’ll know. And she still likes him. She keeps asking about Chris less but I assume but like every day.

THERAPIST: We’re going to need to stop in a moment.

CLIENT: I’ll think about needs and transactions.

THERAPIST: Okay. Sounds good.

CLIENT: Should I write you a check right now, or?

THERAPIST: Sure if you want, that would be fine. I don’t know what the total – do you have the total?

CLIENT: I think it was 90.

THERAPIST: Okay. That sounds like that would be right for (unclear) sessions.

(PAUSE): [00:44:50 – 00:45:26]

CLIENT: It’s 20-what today?

THERAPIST: I think it’s the 27th.

(PAUSE): [00:45:32 – 00:46:01]

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Thank you. Have a good Thanksgiving break.

THERAPIST: Thank you. I really appreciate it. I will see you on Monday.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Take care, [Cecelia] (ph).

CLIENT: Bye.

END TRANSCRIPT