TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in.

CLIENT: Did you have a nice Thanksgiving?

THERAPIST: I did, thank you.

CLIENT: I had an eventful Thanksgiving. I got into a fight, like with a friend. Well, I don’t know if she’s a friend anymore or was. She’s part of my women’s group and I’ve only known her for the past few months – maybe a year or something like that. No longer than a year. She’s kind of like, she’s loud and like is very social but is very like on the surface and I don’t really – how may I characterize – like she always says these like stock thank you e-mails and then you spend time with her and like do something and she’s like, ‘thank you for the’ you know very, very standard like a machine wrote it. She mostly coordinates the stuff that we do.

But for my class we’re launching a literary magazine and I wanted her to write an essay about (unclear) identity and stuff because she wrote for like three different continents. So I gave her like a four week notice and she was very enthusiastic and she said she’d love to do it and then I guess the deadline got closer I was like, ‘hey, how’s it going?’ And she said, ‘when’s the deadline?’ And I said, ‘next week.’ So she was like, ‘oh, I don’t know if I can do it right now but I will send you some e-mails I wrote when I was in South Africa.’ And I’m like, okay, maybe I can help you with that. So I found a few things that I liked and I told her to expand on it and gave her questions and then she was like after a few days, ‘I don’t know if I can do it. Can you just come and interview me?’ So I was a little upset because to me a publication is a big deal or you know, you’re supposed to do this work on your own.

But still, it was something that I wanted so I like put it aside and went and interviewed her and when I was writing and I was like this is actually cool. This is actually a very cool piece. And that day, Thanksgiving Day, we had like a party at this guy’s place who is a friend of Nelson (sp?). But I met these people through her. I met Nelson (sp?) through her so I was (unclear) asking is it okay if I’m there and we’re both there because it might be weird and (unclear) said no, you go and so I was enjoying the time until she came and she hugged everyone but me. So I was like okay, a little weird. And I think was when Dr. (unclear) thinks she’s listening and then like at some point she came to me and said, ‘so do send me the profile before you send it to the printers okay?’ And I was like really pissed by that.

So I was a little aggressive. I said, ‘yeah, I wrote it even though I was really stressed with so many other things to do but I still wrote it. But don’t worry, I’ll still send it to you before I send it to the printers because I have high standards and this is standard procedure.’ So then like a minute later she turned to me shaking, and she said, ‘you know what? Don’t write it. Don’t send it.’ And I was like, ‘whoa, you know. You totally took it the wrong way.’ And I know you have high standards. Just don’t do it. And I was like chasing her around the room like trying to talk to her like I was like, ‘let’s step outside and talk.’ Like, ‘let’s resolve this.’ And she was like, ‘I don’t need to step outside. You need to step outside.’ So I got really shaken up, you know, because all of a sudden I was like, ‘wait a second, I don’t know any of these people. I’ve only met them three or four times and like some of them were actually really, really nice and you know, I feel kind of close to them for whatever reason.

But Nelson (sp?) was not there at the party at that time so like – he’d stepped out for something, so I just wanted to get up and leave but one of the people that I met that day, she was like, ‘no I’ll take a walk with you. Don’t leave. Wait for him.’ So we took a walk and then when Nelson came back he and I stepped outside and he took me to this place and we were talking for a long time and then he went back and joined them for the party. I just felt like for all night crying. I just felt really weird you know. And then the next morning –

THERAPIST: Crying about -?

CLIENT: Just that exchange was very – it shook me up because I felt really scared I’d done something wrong by being a little aggressive with her, being rude to her and the way that she told me off. I got really scared.

THERAPIST: Scared that what would happen?

CLIENT: Like, ‘oh God, what have I done?’ She seemed very powerful at that time and I felt very weak. I felt very out of it and unstable and she felt very powerful. And like the whole outsider thing really kicked in and I felt like I don’t belong here and I’ll never be able to make women friends and that’s what I need. If I had that I wouldn’t have so many guy friends and potentially like sleep with them. So I walked – I walked to Chris’s place and everything seemed really strange because I saw my name on the mailbox and like yeah, this was like I’m always hopping in and out of circles. I hoped out of Chris’s circle for various reasons because I felt judged, I felt small, you know. And that thing happened with his advisor in India, you know. That can shake anyone up and cause them to leave circles but you know I felt like I’m always running away or getting scared or just feeling small. And at that time I was really like, I guess that’s what I was telling them at the – everyone has their shit together, everyone is working and they have nice jobs and they’re saving money and they’re secure and they have parents and siblings like that whole apparatus to lean back on. I just completely feel indefinite. I felt very indefinite, I guess, that night and the next day.

THERAPIST: What was it specifically that you said to her?

CLIENT: I said, ‘yes, I am writing it.’ And we only had two or three days to do it. So we’re sending the contents like right now, this morning. And I interviewed her Wednesday. And I have lots of other things to do. I have a paper due tomorrow but I was thinking liking what am I doing and I was really panicking and really pissed that she didn’t write the essay, nor had she done any thinking. So I had to like tease it out of her and like I was kind of like (unclear), ‘yeah, we’re going to dinner,’ we’re doing this, she’s going to parties.’ So you know, looking at her Facebook activity also I’m like, ‘okay, you have time to party but you can’t sit down for an hour and write.’

THERAPIST: Why were you in her Facebook?

CLIENT: I don’t think I was on her Facebook. You know you get news feeds and you see her saying things like, ‘we went out dancing,’ and whatnot. I was not like on her page but I was just looking at her news feed.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I don’t know, I don’t think I have time to stalk her or anything. But yeah, I was kind of pissed that she didn’t think this was important.

(PAUSE): [00:10:21 – 00:10:33]

CLIENT: So what was your question?

THERAPIST: I asked you what you said to her.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, so I had very little time to adjust so I just kind of said that ‘yeah I have a lot going on but still I’m writing it and don’t worry, I will send it to you. I have very high standards. I do this every day. I know that’s the thing to be done.’ So I just was like feeling weird as though I don’t know to do that. So, I do this for my work at the university like writing profiles and interviewing people and you have to send it to everyone you mentioned in the article before you print it, you know? So I felt ignored by her and then like spoken to like I don’t know my own shit and you know – I guess I was feeling insecure other than just her because this was a new circle and I didn’t know anyone and everyone knows everyone else and like for a long time so that also added up.

THERAPIST: So why provoke her?

CLIENT: What do you mean? Provoke her.

THERAPIST: Why say something that she could react to?

CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I was angry with her. I felt let down and angry and unappreciated and just not the center of attention after she came in. Wait – I don’t think I was the center of attention. I was actually, everyone was in the living room and I was actually in the kitchen cooking. So I do that a lot. I’ve done that in the past also.

THERAPIST: Well, maybe we can help you do something else with those feelings when you’re having them. Because when you’re lashing out at people and then they take a stand back at you and then you just start really freaking out.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And it really (unclear) this cascade of a bad few days.

CLIENT: Yeah. That’s true.

THERAPIST: It reminds me of your experience at your women’s group a few weeks ago.

CLIENT: Yeah. That was small but this was big.

THERAPIST: You were upset about that too, though. You wanted to send apologies. It was like an aftermath to that too.

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s true. What can you do?

THERAPIST: It’s almost like you get confused because your feelings and their intentions.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) What do you mean “their intentions”?

THERAPIST: Well, yeah, I mean it sounds as though she was kind of blowing it off. Whether she was blowing you, personally, off because she feels you are inferior to her – I don’t know.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I guess it’s possible. But, you know, whatever. She’s not taking this seriously. But it goes somewhere very personal in you. Very deeply personal. It feels like a personal affront to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, it does. It does. I can’t see it any other way. Like Chris tells me all the time – look, number one rule – people are not thinking about you. They’re just caught up in their own thing.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That’s too insensitive. Why aren’t they thinking about me?

THERAPIST: It’s not that nobody thinks about you.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I made it personal. I did send her an e-mail like 5 in the morning Friday, like a long e-mail saying like sorry, didn’t mean to hurt you and like I was just confused by everything. I respect you enough to send you the thing for finalizing it and the whole point to do this was to get to know you and I feel like I’ve tried hard to get to know you but you really haven’t tried the same way which is fine. We don’t have to have mutual feelings but let’s make up because we have to be in the same women’s group and etc. And she send like a one-liner and just basically copied my words and said, ‘yeah, let’s be productive members of the group. So that really hurt. It was like you’re not going to (unclear) other stuff about me trying to get to know you and you not trying to get to know me and so I don’t know. I feel like it’s my rough expectations maybe that I expected more from her and didn’t get it for whatever reason. Maybe she doesn’t even have that emotional level or if she does then she shares it with other people and not me and I cannot – I have to try really hard not to take that personally because I’ve tried to be emotional and be available to her, you know? So it’s really hard to understand and to accept it’s not mutual.

(PAUSE): [00:16:18 – 00:16:33]

CLIENT: But yeah, also the intent being like they don’t intend to be personally attacking me or thinking anything personal about me. How do I deal with that? You tell me. Like there’s five people in the room. She goes and like hugs or touches everyone except me? How am I supposed to feel about that?

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

CLIENT: How do I feel okay about it?

THERAPIST: Maybe she knows them better than she knows you.

CLIENT: Yeah, she does or she hasn’t seen them in a while. Yeah, that’s true. Why can’t I rise above like these petty things and just let them go? I think I can. It just depends on how vulnerable I am at that moment. Right?

THERAPIST: Well, you were angry with her. And so you’re already having sort of a hostile relationship in your mind with her.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And then that happens in the context of her not hugging you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And then you start making all sorts of assumptions about that.

CLIENT: That’s true. Like Nelson (sp?) said. ‘There’s a time when you should get angry and if you’re angry, do it properly. Don’t be like all weird and shy about it.’ And like being nasty to her in someone else’s home at a party was not the place. If you were angry, you should have just kind of told her face to face.

(PAUSE): [00:18:02 – 00:18:22]

CLIENT: How far back do you have to go to understand why I was vulnerable like you know? Like what I did the previous day or the week, that whole week? I don’t know.

THERAPIST: You can probably go further back than that.

CLIENT: Than a week?

THERAPIST: Sure because this keeps coming up with different people. I don’t know. That’s what I’m thinking, like it was a new place, new people, they all make good money, some of them have PhDs. I don’t know, something just snaps when the other person says, ‘I just defended by thesis. I just finished my PhD. I just found a post doc. To me that’s just like as if they’re saying, ‘you’re a loser. You haven’t done anything. This is – there’s a lot of ways to think about it but my first thought is this is a way in which you can identify with your father, that he felt very like put down in the world and he always had to puff himself up because he felt that people were sort of seeing him for less than or inferior and there’s a way in which I feel like you identify with that part of him.

CLIENT: I don’t want to.

THERAPIST: I know, you told me – why would you?

CLIENT: Yeah. No, but I mean he did some good things maybe, like for a few years when he had a job – I don’t know, I don’t know that well. But I feel like I’m trying to do as many things as – more things and trying to be responsible and he didn’t even do that, you know/

THERAPIST: I wasn’t comparing you to him in that respect. I was simply comparing you to him in the respect of how he felt about himself and how he imagined other people felt about him.

CLIENT: Yeah. I’m trying to understand this because like if he felt low about himself I feel there were concrete reasons to feel that way, right? Because he didn’t even really have a job.

THERAPIST: That’s a different – maybe that’s true but I’m not – I’m not making the objective ‘should he feel that way’ – I’m more commenting on his experience. Maybe he felt badly about himself. It’s still a different sort of thing than to translate that into feeling either inferior or superior to other people. People can have low self-esteem without having that element of it.

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Maybe it was something I inherited from him but I do feel that I have that element that he did. Maybe I learned it from him.

THERAPIST: Well, you certainly were exposed to it a lot. A history of chronic feeling an awareness of a hierarchy and a sense of feeling humiliated and also enraged.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Unclear) you know? Yeah, when I feel humiliated and enraged – I don’t like parties. Feeling exposed, completely. The next day I’d gone to two parties. One was with Chris and my mom at this other guy’s place – an older guy. We have events, cultural events with him, or political events. And there also I was talking to someone who had finished her PhD. I was fine at that time. I felt calm. She was sweet and she was telling me about her work and I was asking questions and then someone said, ‘Victor might be coming to the party.’ And I was like, what? So – but then thankfully, I had to go to this other thing right after so I left. There for some reason I felt worried I guess because I didn’t know that many people and I felt like I had to prove myself and to do that I had decided to cook for them which now I’m like, was that an imposition because they already had made food. Why did I insist on cooking and even at their place? I don’t know.

(PAUSE): [00:23:40 – 00:23:54]

CLIENT: Yeah, I just felt like I had to prove myself and that I was in the kitchen cooking away from all the conversation. I mean I could hear them but I wasn’t a part of the conversation. I was just listening to songs and laughing. But I was so aware of where everyone was and what everyone was doing and felt like maybe objectively it’s true that they are in a much better place financially and in terms of career and maybe emotionally as well and you know. And at that point it just becomes – it’s all just a comparison to me like it’s all like a graph, like they’re high up there and I’m like whatever. I just want to just run away and not interact.

THERAPIST: And so they had food but you were also cooking?

CLIENT: I think it was just really a miscommunication because I didn’t really understand. This one guy said oh I’ll make this one thing and I thought, that’s all they’re going to make? So maybe I should cook something to have more food. But I don’t think it was that big a deal. They were fine. They enjoyed it. (Pause) You’re right. I do know people who are insecure but their insecurities somehow seem to come out in a very different way than mine do. Like I feel like they are much more stable and their behavior is just far more subdued. Their personalities are different but my experience of insecurities is humiliation and retaliation and rage and making a mess and involving as many people in the mess as possible.

THERAPIST: It’s not so funny when it happens. It really leaves you feeling very distraught.

CLIENT: No, it’s not funny at all.

(PAUSE): [00:26:18 – 00:26:36]

CLIENT: I don’t know what to do about it. I’m still trying to think if there’s any other thing that happened that riled me up that I could take care of, but I don’t know. I mean I didn’t work on my novel this week because I was so busy. I mean the last week, so that could have something to do with it.

(PAUSE): [00:26:56 – 00:27:19]

CLIENT: Maybe it’s being too busy and not having time for myself maybe? I don’t know. That sounds too minor though, you know?

THERAPIST: I think you get riled up real easily. I mean I think you’re kind of primed for this so it doesn’t take much.

CLIENT: What do you mean, primed?

THERAPIST: You’re kind of primed to have this experience of feeling slighted.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So I don’t think it takes much. I mean there might be times in which you feel more vulnerable to it than others.

CLIENT: You mean I’ll always have that and that’s something to watch out?

THERAPIST: No, I don’t – I don’t feel that way at all. I don’t feel like you’ll always have it. That’s why I’m talking to you about it. If I didn’t feel it would change I don’t think there’s be much use in talking to you about it. What I’m saying is I don’t think it’s simply circumstantial.

CLIENT: So I shouldn’t be thinking about like what happened this past week to get me feeling vulnerable?

THERAPIST: You could but I just think it’s such an omnipresent experience for you, that’s why what triggered it doesn’t seem as important to me.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(PAUSE): [00:28:35 – 00:28:44]

CLIENT: I’m just trying to think beyond everything beyond what happened, connecting one feeling to the next and what I thought was just that – I just always feel that everyone is better than me, you know. And like when two years ago that moment the constant thought for many weeks was that I hate myself and yeah, I mean I thought I was trying to take care of that by doing things I liked and making a plan for getting what I want but I guess it’s still there and like it surfaces from time to time. I don’t know.

(PAUSE): [00:29:51 – 00:30:18]

CLIENT: Yeah, I don’t know if it will go away. Maybe it will, but – Chris would say, ‘why are you so self-absorbed? Just don’t think about yourself. There are so many other things to think about in the world. Think about other people. Involve yourself in a cause.’

(PAUSE): [00:30:53 – 00:31:16]

THERAPIST: He sounds like a man who doesn’t know what to do.

CLIENT: A man who doesn’t know what to do. Chris does?

THERAPIST: In that sense, yeah.

(PAUSE): [00:31:22– 00:31:28]

THERAPIST: That’s how you describe him. You describe him as someone – that one of his limitations is he doesn’t really know how to process his experience. He just sort of side steps it.

CLIENT: Yeah. He doesn’t have experiences that kind of rile him up.

THERAPIST: That’s not true. All that went on with you and all these other guys certainly riled him up.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(PAUSE): [00:31:51– 00:32:12]

CLIENT: Like all of those feelings are attached to this feeling, the not having a dad and then my mom’s narrative of I ruined her life that is basically behind me not liking myself. I think having a very low opinion of myself.

(PAUSE): [00:32:34– 00:32:50]

CLIENT: I mean all this is in the past so I can’t really change it. But maybe I can change my perception of it. That’s the only thing I can change. I mean rationally I can think, it wasn’t my fault. I didn’t conceive myself. So even if my mom regrets conceiving me and all that, that’s just her, the way that she felt at that time.

THERAPIST: Do you think that she feels that way now?

CLIENT: Well, when she’s like feeling low about herself, then, yes she might think that way. But maybe I should that it has nothing to do with me really, it’s just anyone who she bore at that time she would criticize being born. So that’s really -

THERAPIST: I can appreciate how hurtful that is to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, it is hurtful.

(PAUSE): [00:34:19– 00:34:24]

CLIENT: I mean I thought about how vulnerable she must have been at that time and like I do feel sad and sympathize with her like she could have done this and that and she could have achieved all that she wanted professionally. She could have had a different life, a better life, but things didn’t work out and I feel bad for her but I don’t want to feel responsible you know. Which is what I’ve been feeling so I want to be freed from that.

(PAUSE): [00:35:09– 00:36:47]

CLIENT: I was (unclear) for people who like me didn’t have the best childhood and like I don’t know, when I think of people who kind of overcome that and are very positive and happy right now, I don’t know that many people but like one of my friends like she had an unhappy childhood but she right now is not really positive. She’s the one I met at the mall with two kids that are twins. She really takes a (unclear). Nelson was saying I should have a circle of friends. I really need a circle of friends, people who accept me for who I am but understand me. It’s like, yeah, where are you finding that? But -

THERAPIST: It sounds like he’s very supportive.

CLIENT: It does which is very scary.

THERAPIST: Scared by that.

CLIENT: Like I love Chris. Yeah. I see a future with him and I feel like I want a future with him. I don’t know. Another topic for another time.

THERAPIST: That’s a pretty big topic.

CLIENT: Yeah. Do we have time?

THERAPIST: Yeah, we have another five minutes.

CLIENT: As you’ve observed, like I am naturally drawn to people who are stronger, not drawn to people like me, you know? And some of these stronger people put me down or I automatically perceive the imbalance and use it to make me feel bad about myself. Maybe that’s why I’m attracted – because I can constantly compare and feel bad about myself.

THERAPIST: I think that that’s a part of it.

CLIENT: What’s the other part?

THERAPIST: It’s complicated.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t know. (Pause) I guess I feel like I don’t like myself and I want to be around other people who do like themselves and project that and maybe I have a hope that maybe they’ll teach me.

THERAPIST: What don’t you like about yourself?

CLIENT: I don’t know. Like it’s just a strong feeling, you know? I feel silly. I feel not smart, not articulate and like I’m not taking care of my mom. My mom is not very mom-like. I don’t have a dad and I don’t have a career and I don’t have money and I don’t have friends. It’s like a lot of negative, like –

THERAPIST: Some of those aren’t true. You do have a career. Your career is maybe not where you want it to be at this moment. You have friends. Maybe you want different kinds of friends but you do have a lot of friends.

CLIENT: I do. I should think more about what I have, right?

THERAPIST: Maybe, but also you’re putting in a box things you don’t have that you actually do have. It’s like saying you don’t have a car but you actually do have a car.

CLIENT: But maybe you say it because you don’t like it.

THERAPIST: Maybe but then you have a car you don’t like, not that you don’t have one.

CLIENT: Yeah, but that’s what you’re thinking. That’s what it does to you. You deny, you deny what you have. That’s what’s happening with me. Like I hate the car I have. Or I’m not invested in it. I just don’t appreciate it. So it might as well be true that I don’t have a car. Which is why I deny that I don’t have friends like I have this idealized picture like I’m supposed to be picking up the phone calling each other every day, every other day. We’re supposed to hang out and have like a fixed meeting plan. Every Monday we have dinner together. I don’t have that so I feel like I don’t have friends. It’s a lot to do with like my idealized image of things, too.

THERAPIST: It does.

CLIENT: I have to get more realistic about things.

THERAPIST: Your idealized image is that other people also have.

CLIENT: Yeah. And that was a thing too like I was saying, that girl you met she was very insecure, ‘like really?’ You know, she has a gigantic family and she goes to India every so often. She seemed perfectly fine.

(PAUSE): [00:42:43 00:44:22]

THERAPIST: How do those things go together? Because you also felt she didn’t treat you well so how does her being perfectly fine and her not treating you well go together?

CLIENT: Oh no, that was someone else.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Yeah, sorry. Like I shut off many different possibilities and many different variations of things. Like reality can be so much more diverse and there are so many different combinations. It’s so much richer than an idealized image.

THERAPIST: That’s very true. That’s very true.

CLIENT: I should appreciate that and think about it.

THERAPIST: We should really be stopping for today. I’ll see you on Wednesday.

CLIENT: Okay, thank you.

THERAPIST: Great. Sure.

END TRANSCRIPT

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Abstract / Summary: Client discusses a fight she had with a colleague and how she feels slighted by other people. Client discusses her issues with power in relationships and how she feels unworthy around those who are more educated than her.
Field of Interest: Counseling & Therapy
Publisher: Alexander Street Press
Content Type: Session transcript
Format: Text
Original Publication Date: 2014
Page Count: 1
Page Range: 1-1
Publication Year: 2014
Publisher: Alexander Street
Place Published / Released: Alexandria, VA
Subject: Counseling & Therapy; Psychology & Counseling; Health Sciences; Theoretical Approaches to Counseling; Family and relationships; Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento; Self confidence; Power; Psychoanalytic Psychology; Low self-esteem; Sadness; Anxiety; Psychotherapy
Presenting Condition: Low self-esteem; Sadness; Anxiety
Clinician: Tamara Feldman, 1972-
Keywords and Translated Subjects: Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento
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