TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I'm trying to think where we ended last time.
(PAUSE): [00:00:20 00:03:03]
THERAPIST: I guess I'm learning that whatever I think is so vitally important actually turns out to be not that important. I hope some things that are vitally important I will still think are important such as my book and my writing and everything. But like the fight with that girl like I saw her at an event and we were civil so I don't think I'll have a heart to heart with her any time soon but we can still be part of the same group and still be civil to each other. I think that will still work. That's like the panic button that I was pressing because she didn't give me an essay seems to not matter so much now. It did at that time. I guess I don't understand like just by her being mad at me at that moment why I got so scared and I left the place and like the next couple of days I was so upset and really shaken up. I don't really understand that behavior that reaction. I mean at the time it was happening and I was feeling all those things but now I'm like I mean I guess I can still see that I would feel the same way I that happened right now but yeah. Mainly I guess I'm still the same insecure person. I just glad I could get at that spot based on what happened.
(PAUSE): [00:05:15 00:05:49]
CLIENT: I'm trying to like making sense of that will help or not.
THERAPIST: Well things can sometimes feel like a crisis for you. You feel the emotions so intensely and it's like you have to do something immediately which is why you sometimes have to burst out sometimes with something to say, you have to do something and then it seems like after a little bit of time the sort of crisis dissipates and you're not sure why there was such urgency.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: It's kind of like the rat poisoning. It seemed like it was very impulsive though you continued to feel bad that sense of urgency, once it dies, it's like what was going on?
CLIENT: Yeah. It's like a pressure chamber in my head like there's no outlet and it just keeps building and there's just like an explosion, implosion I don't know.
(PAUSE): [00:06:49 00:06:59]
CLIENT: I guess like this weekend like with my mom felt sick. She had a fever. I didn't really see her that much. We had an event that our women's group put together and so she came to that. She cooked food and then she said she felt sick but I only spent an hour with her after that and then I had to go somewhere. And then the next morning I wanted to go to her place the first thing and give her medicine bring her medicine, but I couldn't leave Nelson's place until 12 and then I had a meeting with my colleagues at 12:30 so like I was leaving at 12 and he was like can I drop you and I was so mad, I was like I was supposed to get out of here at 11 and it's an hour later and I have to go to my mom's. So I stormed out like yelling and screaming and then I was like, wow, I guess I'll never see this guy again which is good because I'm trying to break up with him anyway and then I had my meeting which went on until 4 and then I went to my mom's with medicine. I just felt so horribly guilty and I was shocking to my colleague. When I got to the meeting he was like, 'what's wrong?' And I was like, 'I feel guilty.' And he said that's coming from you. And he was telling me about his mom. He's actually two years older than me and his mom passed away long ago so I just started crying for him like I just cannot imagine what you went through. I just felt so close to him at that moment. I don't know.
THERAPIST: That he lost his mom?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I felt like holding him like a mother. I felt very motherly then. He and I talk a lot. I tell him everything. At that moment I felt for him very intensely. Not for myself. It was like I'll be fine. Of course, I would think I'll be fine, I always think, I worry in my panic but what he went through and all it's just like I cannot even fathom. I just felt like I was juggling a lot this weekend which is it doesn't register for me. I don't plan for things so then things kind of fall apart or I'm not able to do something that I wanted to do and that just makes me crazy. I feel like I should plan for stuff. I don't know what to blame. I feel like I don't have a home, that's why I'm panicking. This is becoming to me I feel like it's a problem. I don't know if it's a problem right now in denial mode about it.
THERAPIST: About?
CLIENT: Like I have my own apartment like not my own, I share, I rent, I have roommates and I've been paying rent for four months but I don't really spend any time there. So I'm making all kinds of excuses it's dirty, I don't like it. Like inches away they're working on a building and it's very noisy so all that. But just it makes me feel horrible the start of every month when I have to write that check and be like this is money down the drain, you know?
THERAPIST: Where are you living?
CLIENT: I'm mostly I live at I spend most of my time at Chris's place.
THERAPIST: Does he know that you're seeing someone?
CLIENT: Yeah. I mean he's not there most of the time so it's just like a quiet place and it's clean because I clean it. It's pretty.
THERAPIST: Where do you sleep?
CLIENT: Can we not get into that?
THERAPIST: Why not?
CLIENT: Because I don't want to get into it right now.
THERAPIST: Why not?
CLIENT: Because I might be able to change it in a month or two but right now it's -
THERAPIST: So you don't want to talk about it because you don't feel that you can change it?
CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know.
THERAPIST: Are you embarrassed?
CLIENT: No I just don't want to talk about it. Maybe I'm embarrassed but it feels like it's silly, more than anything, but my hair's falling down. Yeah, I feel like maybe that's my problem like I don't have a base or something or I don't know. I want to live on my own with no roommates. I feel like maybe that will make me stay at my place. I don't like it. I don't like that place. But yeah, so I don't think this conversation has a thread today. Yeah it's felt really guilty because I couldn't give, bring medicines to my mom like in the morning but then you know and I was like yeah, like I'm not going to talk to [Nelson] (ph) and like he will like I'm trying to end it anyway but then at 5 I called him and he spoke like nothing had happened and then later on he's saying that that's the way that five years ago he would have gotten really mad but now he's like that's what you do when you are stressed so I just take it at face value and I was like I don't know what to think about like I feel weird about that, like it makes no difference to you that I lashed out? And I was like fine, whatever. And then we were talking and he was like he doesn't feel as guilty about his parents being all the way in Nepal and him not being able to do anything for them. Like, I feel guilty all the time. I guess I was thinking of the conversations that we had had about feeling fused with my mom and trying to separate from her but then like this voice in my head going no that's such a betrayal and I don't want to do that and I want to be there for her and like I'll cut corners and like I'll go forward with her and not charge forward by myself for my greed or my selfish interests.
THERAPIST: What did you get angry at [Nelson] (ph) about?
CLIENT: About well like we woke up and like I feel like he's so lazy. He just kept staying in bed and he's like for 10 minutes just lie there and not say anything. And I was like, 'I have to get up.' It's 9:30 and I have to leave. And so I was mad at him. I guess I feel like he's not serious enough. He's always like silly. He's not as serious as Chris who's always serious. I'm the silly one in that relationship.
THERAPIST: And what did you say to him?
CLIENT: To who?
THERAPIST: To [Nelson] (ph), you said that you got mad at him.
CLIENT: Yeah, I just kind of stormed out. He said you know, like I'll drop you. And I said no, I don't have time. And I just kind of I'm already late and what the fuck is going on and that's it.
(PAUSE): [00:17:32 00:18:20]
CLIENT: I don't know, I just feel like I wish I would just pause and do things more consciously. I feel like I do I run on auto pilot a lot and like not process things because they're too hard like running away from them or living in denial. I wish I could stop. I keep telling myself, 'once the semester ends I'll change, I'll stop.'
(PAUSE): [00:19:00 00:19:22]
CLIENT: Like being alone. I still don't get it. I guess I am alone during the week from morning till evening but to me that no home is still the conundrum. I mean I tried staying in that apartment.
THERAPIST: What does it feel like when you do?
CLIENT: I've done like maybe five times.
THERAPIST: What were those times like?
CLIENT: The kitchen is smelly and now that girl is there. She's like 25 and very messy and dirty so I don't want to clean up after her. And the bathroom was dirty. But my room is nice. It smells nice and looks nice. But I can't just keep being holed up in my room. I don't know. I like the idea of it sometimes. I could wake up and read something. Read a book or I could make tea the way I want to and drink it by myself. I could watch good films and work for as long as I want to. But then the idea of like stepping out and getting my own dinner, like something about the kitchen I feel like it depresses me and like I can't change it, I feel like put away all the dirty pans and wash them or like change the lighting, cook something nice. I don't know. I guess I could do it but I feel like I don't have the power to do it. I don't know. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: I'm not sure.
CLIENT: I don't want my roommates there. I don't like them. I don't know them. I don't want to get to know them. Yeah. I want to change the way that things look right now, but I don't know if I can because it's not my space.
THERAPIST: It's partially your space.
CLIENT: Yeah. But then I want to earn brownie points with Chris. Like I want to cook at his place because then I feed him and there would be food for him and me and he'd be paying for the groceries. So I'll save a little money there. I don't know. I'm trying to be as brutally honest and like not live in denial.
THERAPIST: How does he feel about your staying there and then you're seeing somebody else? Does he not care?
CLIENT: Yeah, he does. Like I don't know. Maybe he's living in denial, too. But like he feels like I helped him when he was doing his thesis so now I feel like I guess he feels like he should I guess he's returning the favor. I don't know.
THERAPIST: So he doesn't have any romantic aspirations anymore?
CLIENT: He does. And I do too, actually. Like I'm not to be brutally honest. I don't have like I feel, I think about him when I'm at [Nelson] (ph) place like compare the two in the back of my head and I think about oh Chris is changing. He's becoming more social. If he's becoming more social and he's hanging out with these people then maybe he's becoming less judgmental about them now. Like at the event he commented about one of my old friends he just went up and hugged her. He said, 'I don't hug people but I just felt like hugging you. I haven't seen you in a while.' So that was unusual and I don't know. I really miss talking to him so like during the week when I do see him for a little bit. We don't really see each other that much because he's always at work and he comes back to the apartment.
THERAPIST: (inaudible). [00:24:53]
CLIENT: Yeah. We don't see each other that much. We're like roommates too. But then yeah, the romantic aspirations are I still love him. I'd do anything for him. I feel like that bitterness is going away little by little and like it was all poison, you know. Like two years ago all that was poison from my perception, you know? So I feel like that's going away. I wasn't concretely thinking about this but just feeling like it's all like in a new context part time. But that kind of feel maybe I'm just justifying it but I feel like it's making me think about things differently like value a bit more in a way. Like when Chris and I talk it feels like so much fun now because I guess it's more as friends who know each other really well. There is not that many mundane conversations like you do this and I'll do that or we'll meet here or there's none of that and there are not that many expectations. It's mostly 'how are you doing?' And then we talk about interesting things about people, about stuff, politics. Which was early in our relationship as well but then there was all that nastiness that was there too. I do feel I if I allow myself to feel, I would feel horribly guilty about seeing both people like that.
THERAPIST: How do you allow yourself not to feel?
CLIENT: I don't think about it. Like, I don't know. I'm trying. It's not working right now. Maybe some things will change and then I'll have the power to change with it like the power to choose, the power to let one person go, you know.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don't know which one though. I don't know. I feel like while I'm confused I should be confused at my place you know? That's all.
(PAUSE): [00:28:00 00:28:15]
CLIENT: I think once I start getting something from someone it's really hard for me to give that up. I feel like that's one way of looking at it. I don't know how your perspective is on this but -
THERAPIST: Can you say more?
CLIENT: Some more about the -?
THERAPIST: More about the idea of giving something up.
CLIENT: Yeah, once I start getting something from someone, I can't give it up. Like I've been getting something from Chris for a very long time now, you know? Intellectual stimulation and growth and companionship and the lived life together and like long term expectations of spending our life together and that's in the background.
THERAPIST: But you don't really want that otherwise you'd be with him.
CLIENT: I know, but it's there, right? It's like the sky is blue and it's like you may not expect every single day to wake up and it's blue but it's like it has been blue and you depend on it, you know? You don't actively want it, but and many days you may ignore it, but it's there.
THERAPIST: Do you feel like you should give him up?
CLIENT: No. And now I'm starting to get things from [Nelson] (ph) but it's still at a point where I can walk away and be sad for a few days, maybe a month, maybe a few months, but it's not at the same scale as the sky is blue. Like he is supportive of me and we do talk and like never I don't want to make a (Unclear) here, but I feel like Chris is not as supportive. He is supportive and we do talk but it isn't like this. I haven't even thought about how it's different. Like earlier I don't think he was interested in any of this, like me going on and on about my feelings and stuff. I've said that in here before, haven't I? [00:30:57]
I don't know if that translates into he's not emotionally supportive but I'm feeling that's accurate. I feel like that's an objective statement. But that he is becoming that now? I don't know. (Pause) I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think he says anything that relates. He's just there in his quiet way, you know? And [Nelson] (ph) is different, he listens and then he gives feedback and he really talks for hours and makes me talk for hours.
THERAPIST: Does he know that you live with Chris?
CLIENT: No. No, he does not.
THERAPIST: My concern for you, [Cecelia] (ph) is that in the end you'll end up with nothing in your quest to have everything.
CLIENT: (Laughs) Yeah. Yeah, I know that. I know it's a risk. But it's not really living with Chris as you think that it is.
THERAPIST: What do you mean?
CLIENT: Because I go there to work. Yeah, we're like roommates. But yeah. Why do you say that?
THERAPIST: Because I think it's true.
CLIENT: What do you mean?
THERAPIST: Because I think that relationships don't always withstand you know, sort of denials and part truths. I don't think relationships, you know that which does damage.
CLIENT: Yeah. I know that in the back of my head but I feel like one solution is to break up with someone, end things with him. I don't know how it got this far. But I guess it got this far because I started getting something from him, you know?
THERAPIST: Well that would sort of be an external solution, but probably temporary because you needed to seek him out to begin with.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So it still doesn't' address what's going on emotionally for you.
CLIENT: What didn't address?
THERAPIST: If you broke up with him it still wouldn't address it it wouldn't be like all you ever wanted was Chris and you have eyes for no other man.
CLIENT: Yeah. I know that. I think my problem is not that I don't know stuff. It's that -
THERAPIST: It's that, yeah.
CLIENT: I don't have the power to like take control and do things based on all that knowledge.
THERAPIST: Well it seems like you're always aware of what you're doing without like what's missing.
CLIENT: Yeah, and I'm focusing on that. I'm trying to be less that way. It's going to be hard to change since it's been years and years of thinking that way but I'm trying. I had a conversation with a friend and he was talking about his own experience and like he almost got married to this girl who was very negative and said something very pointedly negative about the wedding and that really hurt his mom so that she caused like she really stressed that they not marry and they didn't and then he was telling me, 'every like finding fault and lack in everything,' and I was like 'I've been that way like with Chris for a while. Not like for the whole, whole time. I was actually very happy with him and didn't have eyes for anyone. Like Graham came all the way from New York and he was like begging for a kiss, you know? Like he did everything right like after my breakdown I would fall for. He was doing everything at that time. He took me out dancing, I was like a little drunk but I did not. I had no one else in my head except Chris. But after the breakdown things changed and I became kind of addicted to seduction, you know? So after that I was looking at a lack I Chris but I'm pretty sure I'm kind of still there.
(PAUSE): [00:36:55 00:27:12]
CLIENT: I feel like this time I will know for sure but I do want to like not live for Chris.
[00:37:17 00:37:31]
CLIENT: And I think [Nelson] (ph) has an inkling. He doesn't ask questions and like he said in a similar context earlier, he said I'm giving you time to sort things out. I know you've got something going on but I'm giving you time to sort things out. So he's like not really like he's not proposing and he's not like he's like, 'you have doubts. I know you have doubts.'
THERAPIST: What do you mean, 'he's not proposing?'
CLIENT: He's not like proposing marriage or anything.
THERAPIST: Is that a thought in your mind?
CLIENT: Well, like you know, like the future, yeah. Why?
THERAPIST: It seemed like it came out of left field for me
CLIENT: Yeah. No I'm just saying it is in the left field. It's just I'm saying it's not I guess I'm trying to present his position without his actually being here, so it's like he knows that I have a lot going on, I have a lot to figure out and that's what he tells me when we talk 'you've got things to figure out and I'm just giving you time.' He's we only make plans for so far ahead and it's like on a week to week basis and it's not like we haven't bought tickets to go on a mini-break or anything like that. We haven't done anything like that. But it does make me feel ridiculous when I'm like I could save that money and move back in with Chris and creativity and sex are related not that I only get sex from [Nelson] (ph). We don't even have proper sex, but like if I move back with Chris I can do all the creative things I'm doing and do them with more passion and then like when we do have sex or whatever I'll try and be happy with it. [00:40:28]
I don't know if I can make that maybe it's ludicrous of me to think that. And I'm like isn't it just as ludicrous of me to think I could make it work with [Nelson] (ph) who is not an intellectual?
THERAPIST: Why do you have to make it work with either one of them?
CLIENT: You mean be alone?
THERAPIST: I was not thinking about be alone I just meant yeah maybe.
CLIENT: What were you thinking of?
THERAPIST: Do you think you can tolerate being alone?
CLIENT: I can't even like for a day, right?
THERAPIST: What would it mean to be alone?
CLIENT: Cook for myself? With my own money? I won't eat anything except cereal and milk and I'll get no brownie points from anyone.
(PAUSE): [00:41:33 00:41:52]
CLIENT: How will I know if I was doing well, like if I'm doing okay?
THERAPIST: How do you know if you're doing okay if you're by yourself?
CLIENT: Yeah. How?
THERAPIST: How do you know now?
CLIENT: People tell me. Like Chris tells me. [Nelson] (ph) tells me.
THERAPIST: What do they say?
CLIENT: A lot of nice things. That I cook well. That I look pretty. You know. I'm doing good. I'm on the right track. All those supportive things. I clean up their place, you know. I take care of them. I'm supportive.
(PAUSE): [00:42:50 00:44:15]
CLIENT: I don't want to be independent. I just don't want it badly enough right now. I think I want love and support and comfort and safety more, right now. But I feel like I cannot succeed as anything right or a person unless I can depend on myself for some things like comfort and safety but I just don't produce it for myself. It just doesn't come out. It doesn't. It comes out when I'm with someone else. It doesn't come out for me. All that comes out is fear.
THERAPIST: We should really stop for today. (inaudible).
CLIENT: Okay. See you.
END TRANSCRIPT
