TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: OK. (pause) Good morning.

CLIENT: Good morning. (pause) I think I figured out why the reasons why I'm really different and had to do with over the phone or e-mail compared to in person. Do you have a meditative quality in person? (pause) Like there are lots of sacred pauses or something. [0:01:02] And you're... it seems like you are sort of letting things pass through you and receiving them with very intense attention but not so much a lot of reaction. (pause)

THERAPIST: Which is like among other things sort of a little less social?

CLIENT: Yea. (pause) Yea.

THERAPIST: And furthermore like off the cuff (inaudible at 0:02:06)? Is there anything else? (pause)

CLIENT: I don't necessarily think you're filtering here. But there is like kind of a space between you and what you're receiving and who you are receiving. (pause) [0:03:00] That was a very juicy (ph) look at the end of session. (pause) [0:04:01] It was great. Do you remember? (pause)

THERAPIST: I remember a couple of looks. I'm not sure. (pause) I remember our looking at each other when you were sitting on the couch before it was time to ago.

CLIENT: Yea, that's what I'm talking about. (pause) [0:05:00]

THERAPIST: Big juicy look, huh?

CLIENT: Yea, you can feel you can see a girl for a long time with a look like that. (pause) But I felt like I smiled at you to diffuse how intense the look was. Do you remember that? [0:06:01] But also I felt like smiling the whole time. But that like wasn't what you were doing at all. I saw a lot of emotion in you and it is confusing. (pause)

THERAPIST: How so? What emotions did you see?

CLIENT: Pain. Being moved. (pause) Crying maybe. Like (inaudible at 0:07:09) crying. (pause) Cold.

THERAPIST: Oh, yea. I know what you mean. I feel it also. (pause)

CLIENT: So what was it? [0:08:05]

THERAPIST: Do you mean... what do you think? What did it feel like?

CLIENT: It felt like you were deeply moved. (pause) But also like sad or something. (pause) [0:09:00]

THERAPIST: I guess I'm struck you seem surprised.

CLIENT: But I never really know what to expect. You're kind of opaque. That was a moment of transience (ph) and it didn't necessarily follow from anything in particular. [0:10:08] (pause) I remember I really I'm glad that it happened. I don't need to analyze beyond just bringing it up. (pause) And that, OK, maybe afterwards I was like trying to just receive it. And I thought for a while that maybe you were going to have to stop seeing me. [0:11:01] I don't think the look made it seem like that. But maybe that is something that sort of swirls around my head as a fear. (pause)

THERAPIST: And I'm going to have to stop seeing you because this is overwhelming for me in some way?

CLIENT: No. I don't know. I sometimes it's because... sometimes I hope that you stop seeing me because you're in love with me. And then I fear that you'll stop seeing me because you don't think it's working or that you don't think it's fitting which I don't think is true at all. So that's kind of just insecurity or some kind of insecurity. [0:12:02] (pause)

And I guess I haven't quite settled in either. Like either compared to the unfounded insecurity telling you that you haven't settled in. That is confusing. Sometimes it... sometimes I fear that you haven't settled in but I don't necessarily think that's true. [0:13:00] And I think that I haven't quite settled in. And I don't know if that happens here because it's kind of unsettling.

THERAPIST: I see. (pause) [0:14:01] Yea, it sounds like you're worried that the intensity of what you're feeling or I may be feeling like we won't be able to contain it. That we'll cause for this to end.

CLIENT: Yea. (pause) [0:15:00]

THERAPIST: I guess particularly for me. (pause)

CLIENT: At moments. Usually I get the impression that you're containing it just fine. And sometimes that's really disappointing. [0:16:00] (pause)

THERAPIST: I really should not be able to contain my feelings for you.

CLIENT: Well, like how am I going to make my... like know that I am making a mark and that I'm memorable or unique or important if I don't have some sign? And that's a really big sign if you're unable to contain your feelings. I don't know why I need such a big sign. There are plenty of other signs that don't ruin things. [0:17:04] (pause) Not that that would ruin things but it would...

THERAPIST: Yea, that's not just making a mark. That's really shaking things up.

CLIENT: Yea, I guess part of me wants that.

THERAPIST: Yea. (pause) [0:18:00]

CLIENT: Analyst or therapist. (pause)

THERAPIST: Like which am I or which do you want?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Do you think about it?

THERAPIST: I thought about it a little but for me they're not that... I feel like there's some things we could think about that. [0:19:15] What I assume... let me just ask instead of assuming. What differences do you have in mind?

CLIENT: I don't know that it matters. I guess like the sort of the tenor of the interact our interactions and maybe like your state of mind or something. [0:19:59] And also like my state of mind and my physical state. And also like what's the goal? The goal seems different and I think I'm like somewhere in between. (pause)

THERAPIST: I mean, in a sort of formal way and (inaudible at 0:21:07) four times a week. But potentially I think this is more analytic in that... in the way that we're focused on what's going on between us. And what's that about for you. And what it's like. (pause) The way of putting the hallmark of psychoanalysis as much as anything. [0:22:00] (pause) But I have the feeling you're also referring to some things about almost like a degree seriousness or something?

CLIENT: Yea, maybe. (pause)

THERAPIST: I also have the feeling I'm missing something important.

CLIENT: Me too. I don't even know what I'm reaching for. (pause) [0:23:01] I think I want to know like how many other patients do you consider as being analysis patients? And I guess there's like this sort of my intense training involved in analysis and that means for you and that means somehow more serious or like it takes a different kind of commitment. [0:24:01]

THERAPIST: I sort of get the impression this is a way of asking how invested I am in you and how special you are to me.

CLIENT: Yea, I think like a lot of what I ask has to do with that. I think this is another way. (pause) [0:25:00] I think one of the reasons why my sexual fantasies about you are really developed is because I think I imagine it taking like months of doing that. [0:26:05] But then part of the fantasy is that it takes a long time. (pause) Like attention is part of the fantasy. (pause)

THERAPIST: Is kind of the sense that like there's something erotic going on in whether and how much you can get through to me? [0:27:18] Or see that you've affected me? (pause)

CLIENT: Yea. I don't... I think erotic can mean a few different things. But I think that's right. [0:28:01] Like am I physically aroused? Maybe. Am I aroused in other ways? Yes. Is it exciting and sort of titillating? Yea. (pause) Yes. So it's kind of like making like the cupcake last for like months and months. [0:29:05] It's like every aspect of it is so good that I can't really in my mind like rush it or make it... maybe the further I go, it'll last the last I have left. (pause)

THERAPIST: Are you savoring it?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. (pause) [0:30:01] That might be why I'm still at the point of like being where I am and having you next to me. And like having us face each other and that's like the extent because that is so intense. And it's nice to just be in that space for a while. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't also enjoy or I don't also want lots of other things. Like lots of other things... lots of other sexual things. [0:31:01] (pause)

THERAPIST: But in some important way that's kind of [where it's at] (ph). (pause) I have an impression there's something kind of liberating about this.

CLIENT: About what? (pause)

THERAPIST: There's stuff you're talking about. Like being able to have and talk about the feelings that you (inaudible at 0:32:11) are and I know it can also be very frustrating and sad in that. Also I think about it but I get the sense what you're talking about is something that also feels exciting but also freeing. (pause) [0:33:01]

CLIENT: Do you really get that sense? Or is that how you think it should be? (pause)

THERAPIST: No. I get that sense. Maybe I'm wrong.

CLIENT: You're not usually wrong. I think you could probably second guess yourself less.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: I think it is freeing and exciting. It doesn't remove any of the intensity or frustration or sadness...

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: ...in the way I can feel. But it does sort of open a door. [0:34:04]

THERAPIST: The other thing I could imagine going on when I said that is I think you're suspicious and sometimes miffed if I say something that sounds like I'm interpreting or analyzing. Like I'm...

CLIENT: Well, like you're reading from a script or something.

THERAPIST: Oh. [0:35:01] I was just going to say something more like I'm discounting or trying to look past. Like just when it's discounting like important things about how you feel. Oh, it's just transference. It's like this (inaudible at 0:35:28) reaction and it has to do with your childhood. And...

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: ...you'll see it eventually and I'll play along until you do. And there we go. Rather than like you're in love and feeling it intensely, emotionally, physically and sexually. [0:36:01] And are reacting to very real things in the present between us.

CLIENT: Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure. (pause) And it probably can feel sort of like a kind of denial or avoidance of how you feel. Like I'm avoiding it or I'm denying crucial things about it.

CLIENT: Well, I think it feels bad not because I don't think you're... not because I think you're not paying attention. [0:37:07] Or you don't think what I feel and say is important. But because it any hint of you've been here before feels horrible. (pause) Like it should be... it feels like it should be a de novo experience for you. In a way it's been. So theory or anything that sort of feels or sounds like boilerplate isn't... it may be right and maybe it's not theory or boilerplate. [0:38:18] Maybe there's a rising de novo for you but it doesn't.

THERAPIST: It generates the feeling for you that it's not.

CLIENT: Yea. (pause) And that hurts a lot.

THERAPIST: Yea. (pause) Of course then I'm really seeing you or reacting to you. (pause) [0:39:03] That makes you feel like that it is less special to me. (pause) We've got about five minutes. (pause) [0:40:01] (pause for one minute)

CLIENT: When I think about it is like think that that is letting you inside one of these lanterns (ph). (pause) That I can like carry it around with me thinking that I'm an addict (ph). (pause)

THERAPIST: It's probably my first thought was (inaudible at 0:41:40). That's a little small.

CLIENT: Yea, we're really small in it. Like a world in itself. (pause) [0:42:00]

THERAPIST: And what's it like?

CLIENT: Like always the same. And I think that (inaudible at 0:42:29) strong feelings of love and frustration and fear. [0:43:01] (pause) It's always there. I mean, they're inside or (inaudible at 0:43:24). And I don't put it down. (pause)

THERAPIST: I'm sorry if I making light at first. I think it's important. I feel bad.

CLIENT: That's OK. [I know your feelings scare me in a way] (ph). [0:44:01] I'm sorry for asking you about working during school vacation. I... first of all, I'm really glad you were working then. And I'm really glad you're seeing me. So thanks for working. And it doesn't mean anything about your father if you work or you don't work. And it's not a place to make any judgments or say anything about it.

THERAPIST: I appreciate it that it's also OK. [0:45:00]

CLIENT: I mean, I think it's important to like where am I... where I'm coming from in asking a question that...

THERAPIST: Visions (ph) about bad being (inaudible at 0:45:21).

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: We should stop for now. See you tomorrow.

END TRANSCRIPT