TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Supergirl.

CLIENT: I’m not wiley today. I was really my brain was asleep or something on Monday. After that drive and I spoke to my mom, she said it’s good that you went but I think that that trip always just makes you, gets to you more than you expect.

So interestingly I happened to be interviewing for the [inaudible at 00:00:42] assistant job and I got really angry when I got to work on Tuesday. I think it was just because I was there or something. But then with the first interview it was interesting actually. I was kind of not feeling it and totally not, of friend of mine could kind of start and then I’ll chime in after. But the girl that we were kind of asking about would you feel satisfied with it because she’s an assistant coming from, trying to make a lateral move kind of from a different department within MIT. And we were kind of gauging what she does when she starts to or I don’t know. I don’t remember how the question was framed. [00:01:27]

But anyway she’s talking about how she feels that if she gets bored in her job she likes to know that she can go to development center, take a course and learn how to do things better. I don’t know, just hearing her, a young person, talk about ways to make things interesting and develop their career and whatever, kind of I don’t know helped me think about my situation in a different light and that was helpful. Just kind of like yes I can go take courses if I wanted to, I could, I mean granted it’s not the solution I want; I want a new job. But it was just kind of put things in perspective for me, which was really helpful that morning. [00:02:10]

Yes and so, and I met with oh, I know what happened actually. This is what happened. I was really, really, really angry just kind of seething and just slamming around. I got to my office at 9:15 on Tuesday and I realized on my way in that morning, I guess the subway ride made me angry too. I was just cold and there was people whatever. And then I realized I had the appointment with Dr. Gillingham (ph) at 9:45, so I stomped over there, I was so mad. But I think even though it’s not like I had a therapy session with him, he just kind of asked my how I’m feeling and gives me a prescription and when we’re going to check in next and whatever. I did say to him I’m having a really angry morning, this, the Celexa’s been helping with this but I find when it comes to my job it’s hard for me to, it’s hard to curtail those feelings. And I mean just kind of doing that helped me calm down a little bit and the walk I think. And then I had that nice interview with the girl who I hope gets hired. I really think she’d be the ideal candidate. [00:03:12]

We had three other interviews this week, one of which was with an internal person who is filling in for dammit, I thought I brought my coffee; maybe down there filling in for somebody who’s at Basic Training in our department and -

THERAPIST: Did you want to check?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Go ahead.

CLIENT: It’s probably in my [inaudible at 00:03:42]. Okay, that’s the right position. Okay, whatever. And so they kind of want to give her a chance. She’s, her English she’s still kind of learning English, and the finance team is routing for her because they think she’s been doing such a great job. I don’t think she’s been doing such a great job. I, from the jump, was I would be really nervous about hiring somebody who’s English is so poor just in terms of the amount of writing that goes into this position and how I’m really trying to move away from having somebody I need to micromanage and feeling like I would have to micromanage her even more than Melody (ph). I mean maybe some of the things she would be better at in terms of making sure supplies are ordered, making sure I think that I would have other issues such as typos and not being tech savvy enough and whatever. [00:04:35]

Then I find out that she’s fucked up reimbursements for a couple of students that needed the money in order to get home from abroad or something like that. Fucked up some reimbursements from the conference, like some presenters haven’t been reimbursed from November and it’s January; has twice sent me my corporate card report and when I click into it it’s from 2012 or some random date. Which is small things but it’s happened twice to me so I wonder how many other people this has happened to and I don’t know. If that’s really one of your only tasks right now, you shouldn’t be fucking it up. [00:05:16]

Then she comes to me, because I guess Melody (ph) was out of the office, and she said, an interview was coming in, and she said Matt is here to see you. And I said Matt? And I said is it Graham (ph)? And she said no, he said Matt. And I said I don’t have any meetings scheduled with an Matt, and she said well I don’t know maybe it’s Graham (ph). I said, you want this job, you tell me, you ask the person to repeat their name, you come and say Graham (ph) is here for his interview, I’ve asked him if he’d like some coffee and told him to wait. Should I let him know you know, if you want the job act like you’re doing the job already. And then she interviewed poorly and I think that Arvilla who I was interviewing, who I chose to interview with last because she’s rooting for Olive (ph), and so I wanted her to see the other candidates and see how [00:06:05]

But I think that Arvilla spoon-fed her questions and answers. I think she said I’m going ask you this question; this is how you should answer because I kept seeing her look at Arvilla after she would answer questions and still her interview wasn’t that great and her English is just and on top of kind of poor English, she had a lisp, which I don’t care if people have but couple that with not great English and you’re answering the phone all day long. [00:06:33]

THERAPIST: I see, yes.

CLIENT: So, anyway, the first girl we interviewed they’re going to do a second interview for and then if they like her we can just hire her because I told them, I said I would just hire her. The other candidates are over qualified but still would be good candidates. And so if they still want to see more after they do the second interview with her, they’ll call one of the other folks but if not we can just hire her and make her an offer, which I’m happy about. She would be a great fit; I think that she’s somebody that would want to apply for my position when I leave and would be good at it. [00:07:09]

So there’s that. And then yesterday I had a really difficult morning as well. I was just feeling really sad, it was really cold, [inaudible at 00:07:20], the stupid bed is huge so there’s so much more cold than warm because I’m only so big. And I had a difficult morning and Lucas randomly texted me saying hey, have a good day. And I said don’t talk to me for a while, like you’re an asshole, you woke up with somebody snuggly and I’m all alone crying; I hate you. And then, I mean he was very understanding, and I apologized later. I said I’m sorry, I just and I’m also frustrated with myself again because it’s just this repetitiveness. I’m sick of feeling this way; I’m sick of talking about the same shit, I’m sick of feeling sad about the same shit. And I said you know other people have real problems, and he kind of said yes, but it’s all relative. I mean security and happiness are also real issues so that’s okay that you want that. It was really nice of him; he’s very understanding so that was good. [00:08:22]

I went on a date last night wait, I was going to say something else. Oh, Stephanie (ph) (ph) confronted me because she feels that I’ve been making comments about, like jealous or snarky comments about how she ended up being in love with Aiden. And but we talked it over and but I guess that’s why she’s kind of been ignoring me or avoiding me, which I did feel but was kind of unsure of what was going on. So then she told me and I told her and I said Stephanie (ph) (ph) don’t ignore me. Don’t just tell me; tell me. And I apologized to her sincerely. I said I’m sorry, I feel and I explained I felt confused after all these months of you saying you wanted to break it off with him all the sudden you’re gung-ho in love. And it confused me and made me feel jealous and sad. [00:09:22]

And she said obviously I forgave you already when it happened it’s just I kind of pissed or upset, whatever. She said it’s not fair, you know? And it’s not. She’s right. She said I don’t want to feel like you want me to also be sad and lonely just because you are. And I said understandable even though I do.

Anyway I had this date last night with the Match.com guy. And it went pretty well I think. I mean it was good conversation. The thing about these dates that I’m going on or whatever is I’m kind of gauging it like if we had a nice enough time and there weren’t too many awkward silences, then I think yes, why not try it again. But I think I’m having a hard time knowing what to concentrate on because then I get worried. Wait what if I waste all this time going on dates with this person and then we find out some big thing that we haven’t gone over that’s a huge clash or whatever? [00:10:30]

I think it’s all just kind of goes back to my feelings of why even try, the shit’s going to fail like usually anyway. Or just not really having a concept of forever and thinking about because my parents were divorced; everybody gets divorced; everybody breaks up. I -

THERAPIST: Why [inaudible at 00:10:51] start?

CLIENT: Yes. Or why am I going to be always if I’m dating somebody and things are going well am I always going to be looking for just in case there’s a better person because I made this mistake before with Franklin (ph), or am I going to be always wondering what’s going to come up that’s going make us break up then I’m going to be my own downfall? I’m just, I’m feeling really unsure about how I don’t know how to date. I don’t know what I’m supposed to be concentrating on and I think it’s because I’ve never have done this kind of contrived dating. It’s always just been like I’ve met somebody and got to know them more organically or knew them through friends. And this is so starting from nothing. I don’t know anything about these people even from their, I mean from their Match.com profile [00:11:42]

THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:11:43] you get so sure you’re going to be disappointed and it’s going to blow up and you’re going to be really upset about it? You feel like, I guess to see another aspect of it that you are sure you are going to feel you should have known better.

CLIENT: Right, or I should have asked more questions in the very, very beginning about stuff. Like question hairstyle or something like -

THERAPIST: Something else that crossed my mind is the best date you’ve described so far is the first person you interviewed this week.

CLIENT: Right. Exactly.

THERAPIST: And I think it’s because she’s kind of on top of her shit and conveys I think conveys something about I don’t know being self-reliant or being able to look out for herself or sort of do what she needed for herself even if you guys weren’t giving her enough to do or she’s getting bored or whatever. [00:12:55]

CLIENT: Right. I mean I don’t know we had some stuff in common I guess, me and this guy, and we had made conversation. But what if I don’t know. Now I can’t, yesterday I had all these big things on my mind like what if this, what if that, what if I find out this, what if we realize this? But now I can’t think of them anymore. I don’t know. [00:13:38]

I’m just kind of unsure of how to think about a possible next relationship. I think what I said to my mother, I went to Chicago this, oh yes on a visit, and on the way home I said to my mom that I was feeling like I could never really envision myself being in a relationship and being in love or having somebody love me or whatever. And that is weird because I love people and I’ve been in love and I know how to love and I love lots of my friends and family and I know they love me and lots of love. But for some reason now, after Franklin (ph) and after this year of dealing with this break up and all this Lucas stuff and whatever, I’m now starting to have difficulty envisioning myself in a functioning and happy relationship. And my mom said I understand that but if it makes you feel any better I can. I can totally see you in a nice relationship and whatever and maybe it won’t last forever but if it does great and you’ll see what happens. We all know, whatever, life happens. [00:14:46]

But I’m having a harder time seeing it. I just didn’t having a hard time seeing myself be as comfortable with somebody as I was with Franklin (ph) I guess in terms of my issues, my quirks, the way that I like to keep my house. Even though we had lots of fights about all that stuff and he wasn’t always accepting of all that stuff and wanted me to change things that I think were unfair to ask me to change or pressure me to change or make me seem like I need to change as an ultimatum kind of thing. But overall we felt very comfortable together and I’m just having a hard time envisioning myself feeling that way with anybody else now. [00:15:35]

And I feel like that’s going to get in the way of people that maybe that could happen with because I’m just so man it’s going to fail. [Pause] I was e-mailing with Stephanie (ph) yesterday, I was having this very upset day and we were talking a lot about how she’s being very understanding and very caring and that’s very nice. And she said basically so you hate your job, you don’t really have a social life, you’re not really enjoying the whole process of having to make dates and meet lots of people and whatever, which I’m not because it’s just really time-consuming. And then I schedule dates and then I realize oh, it’s too much stuff in one week and then I’ll have to cancel and I seem like a flake and it’s just [00:16:37]

Whatever, anyway, and she said you don’t like your living situation because you have a lump on the couch every day when you come home and it’s hard. She said so basically of course you’re, regardless of Celexa, still unhappy. I wish so badly I had a solution for you and I wish things, something could change that but it’s true. She’s right, I’m unhappy with my job, she said you basically are unhappy with every aspect of your life, which is true and the Celexa is really helping and I’m really happy that I made that decision and don’t want to go back on I’m staying on the 10 milligrams, which seems fine. I mean I’m not seeing huge side effects but I’m still seeing differences in my attitude and stuff and my mom says she does too and Stephanie (ph) also. [00:17:27]

But other than that and the routines that I’m creating in terms of waking up early and working out and working out a little when I get home and sticking to that, are kind of the only things that are holding me together it feels like. I am horribly sick of living with Helen (ph) (ph). I just [pause] she’s just always on the couch, she still doesn’t have a job yet, she hasn’t I mean why doesn’t she go back and bag groceries or something? I don’t know go do something in the interim. Don’t lay around all day. I’m depressed and I’m lonely and do I have to come home to a house where my roommate’s laying on the couch? I don’t know, just it’s depressing. [00:18:39]

Apparently she’s lost 22 pounds in the last few months because she’s been trying to diet, which is great for her but she’s also really fat so 22 pounds is 3 pounds for me. And, but regardless, she doesn’t cook, I don’t have somebody that I can cook with. I would like to live with this is what it is. And Stephanie (ph) said, she said no I don’t think this is unreasonable for you to want this. And I would like somebody that I live with that kind of has the similar level of activity as me. Even laying on the couch for every minute of her free time, maybe wants to work out with me, cook dinner together. I can never cook dinner really for myself because I don’t know, I don’t like cooking that kind of stuff because then I have leftovers and I don’t eat I’m sick of eating it whatever. [00:19:27]

She always orders food, she’s a mess, she’s messy, she’s not considerate. I left a mug I washed some dishes before I left and she had a bowl or two in there and of course I just washed them; they’re in the sink whatever. I had a mug, a mug, that I’d already rinsed out that was still in the fucking sink when I got home. And I’m thinking either you’re weird and didn’t use any dishes that you had to wash yourself and B, you’re inconsiderate. You should have been like oh let me wash this mug. And I left by accident pots and pans that I was about to put away. I left them on them on the stovetop or whatever just because I forgot to put them in the place where we keep them. And they’re still there. You know that’s not where the fucking pots and pans go, you understand that I washed them, put them in the drainer, took them out of the drainer, put them on the oven and forgot to put them away. You couldn’t have just fucking put them away? I hate living with this person. And it’s a big problem. And so I, what do I concentrate on trying to change because these three [00:20:31] things, social life, home life, work life, suck. [00:20:37]

THERAPIST: Well I think I know what you’re saying is entirely true about your roommate and of course it’s reasonable that you’d want somebody who kind of had her shit together more to be living with, especially given how you’re feeling it would make a big difference. But I think you’re also commenting on something with me. Where I know at one level obviously you know how this works. But on another level I think you feel like I’m sitting here like a lump and I see all these things out of place in your life and all this stuff you’ve got to take care of. [00:21:31]

And I could be encouraging and I could be telling you what to do and how to handle it and I could be saying oh good job here, and let’s throw that in here, and here’s what you’ve got to do here, and good for you on this, and you really should do that, sort of cleaning up, helping you clean up the mess. And being much more active and showing that I can do these sort of active, constructive things that I’m supposed to be doing that will also help you feel better. And I don’t do that.

And I think I probably feel to you sort of really quite passive a lot of the time or not engaged in the way that you want. And I think you not entirely sure what you feel is all. I think sort of it sort of taps right into this feeling of being disappointed and wanting me to be there for you in a different way that is more energizing for you and kind of activating and reassuring. [00:22:38]

And there’s something else too. It also starts to reflect, I think, I’m trying to say that it’s something like I think you see your roommate as in some ways being like your mom and your brother, kind of not like an addict [inaudible at 00:23:27] of anything, but sort of passive, not able to do for herself. And I’m not saying your mom is always like this but I think there’s a side of her like sometimes she can be like that and it drives you nuts. And I don’t know if it’s that you fear you have that in you or you don’t want to think about yourself as being that way in some kind [00:23:43]

CLIENT: No, I know I have it in me. I mean I spent a lot of time since the last year coming home and smoking as much pot as I could as soon as possible and laying on my bed or couch for hours. I mean when I was in Waltham still I would, I mean I was in my room for most of the day. [00:24:06]

THERAPIST: Oh, I mean I don’t think you ever mentioned that to me.

CLIENT: Well because I hated, I really -

THERAPIST: I’m not upset.

CLIENT: No, I know, I know, I know. But -

THERAPIST: It sounds like me to come downing [inaudible at 00:24:15]. Do you think it’s clearly something that you are really upset about having done and feel really ashamed about it?

CLIENT: Yes, I feel ashamed, yes. And I even felt ashamed the other day when I got home and Helen (ph) said hey want to watch an episode of Revenge? And it was almost like she had been lonely all day waiting for me to come home and watch TV with her. And then I felt peer-pressure and this peer-pressure thing is something that I kind of mentioned I think before [inaudible at 00:24:47] [phone ringing] sorry. Sorry. But I felt peer pressure to do so. And so where I was going to do a little workout, I ended up laying on the couch for two hours. [00:25:05]

And I don’t, I don’t even want that to be a thing. I don’t want to get back into that. I like, like I told you, this routine of trying to work out more is really what’s kind of keeping things together more for me because it’s taking up some time in the morning and energizing me for the day and then in the evening it’s helping me so that I’m not just coming home like oh I hate my job like I hate my life. I say okay I’m going to work out for an hour and now it’s already 7:30, great.

THERAPIST: Right. It sounds like you feel as though you’re sort of almost like staying 10 yards ahead of this sort of lump monster and running hard.

CLIENT: Right. And depression and I think Celexa really hasn’t been what’s helped me and so yes, you’re right; I am. And so to have a job that I want to not do because I’m just resentful about everything and then a roommate that’s is unpolite and Stephanie (ph) is trying to convince me to tolerate her. [00:26:15]

THERAPIST: And also a new report who you, it seems like it plays with the energies as well in a way that the candidate you like is saying I’m not a lump, I would do this, I would do that, even if there’s nothing to do she will find something to do that was effective. Whereas the other one, you anticipate will need a lot of your help, won’t really be good at stuff, is sort of getting isn’t achieving in the interview and getting interview questions right. Yes, I see. So they’re all kind of organized. And I do think that starts to emerge in here when you feel like I don’t have much to say or [00:27:00]

CLIENT: You aren’t saying oh why don’t you do this?

THERAPIST: Right. Right, yes. You need to get out and okay let me see your workout routines and I want to see -

CLIENT: Right -

THERAPIST: How many of those dishes did you put away and how many are left in yes, something like that. Sort of like the lump monster is in the room.

CLIENT: Right, and right. And Stephanie (ph) feels that I should be applying outside of MIT in terms of the job scene, which is hard for me because the benefits it’s hard to get into MIT so why leave? I mean if I can get back in but why and then not to mention the extension school stuff, which I signed up for a class. Did I tell you that? That I signed up for another class already? I don’t think so.

THERAPIST: No, I was smiling and distracted because I’m saying okay where’s my scorecard while I’m keeping track of all the things you’re doing.

CLIENT: Right, right, right.

THERAPIST: Yes, yes, but no I don’t think you told me.

CLIENT: Well I’m really actually excited about it.

THERAPIST: Well that’s good.

CLIENT: It’s because I haven’t for a while since I struggled (ph). And I’m still really not sure what I’m doing with that degree but I figured I’ll take a class and see how I get back into it. And I found this class and it’s a psychology class. It’s an online class, which is great for me because with work and everything it’s really nice to not have to worry about going to an actual class. [00:28:23]

But it’s less of a psychology, like cognitive or I don’t know I’ll have to read the description again. But it describes kind of how studying adult development can that adult development can and should be studied in the same way as child development. And it, the class is focusing on stress and adult things, adult stressors in adult lives, particularly timing in terms of women over the age of 30 and preference of timing and whatever. And also the class will allow us to look at our own daily lives and stresses and anxieties and help us learn how to deal with them better. I said whoa this class is hand-made for me to be the first class I’m taking after two or three semesters of no classes. So I’m really excited about it. [00:29:20]

But anyway so that’s another reason, because do I want to sacrifice getting that really inexpensive MIT Master’s degree from an expensive school and so there was that. And then she also, Stephanie (ph) also thinks that in addition to applying elsewhere, just because I should, that I need to talk to Helen (ph) or should talk to Helen (ph) basically about how I feel like she misrepresented the way that she was going to be a roommate which I do because she kind of implied that she might be clean or neat or not a lazy fuck. And that I should talk to her and talk to her about how I’m not happy and that this isn’t working and I’ve had to talk to her about things that bother me but I’m just not happy living with her. [00:30:06]

And I said yes, I agree and maybe that would be helpful but it’s just another one of those situations where I’m again the bad guy. I’m always the one having to talk to people about stuff, I was the one that had to break up with Franklin (ph), I was the one, I mean it’s just like and I was the bad guy to him, I was the asshole who didn’t want to make it work anymore. And so this is a similar situation where I’m the asshole who instead of trying to make it work with Helen (ph) is telling her can you move out?

And I mean if she doesn’t get a job, which unfortunately, well not unfortunately fortunately for her; unfortunately for me because I can get her kicked out if she didn’t get a job and wasn’t going to pay her bills. I don’t know. Stephanie (ph) said you should talk to her and say with the whole job thing maybe it’s better that you move back in with your parents for a while and get on your feet. But this is not a conversation that I feel willing to have. It’s always I’m always dealing with shit. [00:31:02]

THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:31:05] stuff going on there where I mean it’s really quite funny that you wind up feeling like the asshole with Franklin (ph) and with your roommate. And the reason you broke up with Franklin (ph) was I guess largely -

CLIENT: He was an asshole.

THERAPIST: Yes. That he was doing things that were clearly out of the bounds of what you both really would think was okay. And there was some other stuff about how he talks to you and things like that. But -

CLIENT: Yes, it was largely him and not me so, but then I felt like the asshole.

THERAPIST: So that’s the part that strikes me. And again with your roommate, I mean I don’t remember well how she represented herself but if you’re saying a lot of it is that she sort of said up front she was not like this and then is like this or has become like this I wonder how you then become the asshole there, you know what I mean? [00:32:06]

CLIENT: Because instead of just talking to her like an adult and saying Helen (ph) can you change your entire way of living and personality, I’m instead saying I don’t want to live with you. And it’s like oh what did I do? I tried to take out the trash and give you the remote, you know? That’s what I would feel like she would be thinking because she had been trying with that to be honest but I mean it still doesn’t change the fact that I don’t like living with somebody that is like her.

She doesn’t none of her clothes are even hanging in her closet. They’re just on the floor in a pile. And then she leaves her door open and I have to close it because I don’t want my cat to look in there. I don’t know what the hell she has in there on the floor that they’ll eat or get into, I don’t know. [Pause] I just I [00:33:19]

THERAPIST: There seems like there’s something going on where you feel incredibly guilty holding people responsible. And I think it’s probably true as much as you can rail about him like with your brother for example, maybe with your mom but certainly with Franklin (ph) and with your roommate.

CLIENT: Yes, my that’s -

THERAPIST: In other words you have this vision of this sort of panicked version of them saying hey I’m trying, I’m doing my best, this is all I can do and you’re being an asshole and giving me a hard time. I guess it seems to me to reflect your feeling a lot of guilt about having expectations for them of I don’t have anything at all, I don’t have anything at all but she got the trash; big deal. [00:34:22]

CLIENT: Right, offer me her big fucking deal and again those items are just kind of what I was able to tell her that would just kind of make things a little bit more tolerable, a little bit more tolerable.

THERAPIST: Yes because I keep in my mind going back to my impression. I mean I don’t know if I really knew the details that, about how she would be as a roommate but my impression is you had this sense or she said she wasn’t going to be like this, like the, she’d be more active and doing stuff. I don’t know, but -

CLIENT: Or maybe she didn’t but I just didn’t anticipate that somebody could lay on the couch for four hours straight every single day of their life or more. I didn’t anticipate that I think is what it was. [00:35:12]

THERAPIST: It’s strange (ph) because you’ve seen that.

CLIENT: Right. I guess, yes. Also to be fair to myself, I wasn’t aware that she had Fibromyalgia and bipolar disorder when I agreed to move in with her. And those have big [inaudible at 00:35:36] impact on her behavior I think which is okay for her but it’s something I have to want to live with her and those diseases. [Pause]

I mean even aside from the lumpness I’m just again wanting to have an assistant that is resourceful and proactive and notices things and is perceptive. It’s the same for my roommate. I want a roommate who is perceptive and notices oh those dishes don’t belong there; let me put them where they go. Or hey look the shower door is off the track instead of just shoving it back why don’t I see if I can fix it because every time I get in the shower I’m fixing the fucking door. [00:36:34]

THERAPIST: Right, but there’s a sort of split where you say that and are clearly frustrated about it but feel really guilty apparently -

CLIENT: Because I feel like it’s something that I can’t tell somebody. You can tell somebody to take out the trash and ask them to please be more considerate with the remote control in the living room. You can’t tell somebody hey can you be perceptive, can you be a perceptive human.

THERAPIST: Sure you can. You can say there’s all this stuff that has to be done around the apartment that somehow I notice that you never do. I mean that’s like the same [00:37:07]

CLIENT: Okay, that’s helpful. See, I don’t think though. I think that that’s such a big deal to have how can I tell somebody -

THERAPIST: I guess it’s striking because I mean -

CLIENT: Because I feel like she’s also, and then I also feel like the bad guy -

THERAPIST: Right. I think that’s why you don’t think it because basically that is what you’re saying to me. You might have said something like there’s al these things she doesn’t notice around the apartment and I’m saying well you can tell her there’s all these things she doesn’t notice around the apartment. I don’t -

CLIENT: But then I’m a jerk because in my mind I see her saying things like oh but I just don’t notice them so what am I supposed to do. Why are you being such a jerk? I didn’t notice. One day the milk was on the counter the whole day because I left it out. Fine, but if you’re home all day milk obviously goes in the fridge. But yes, I think that you’re right, I could say to her -

THERAPIST: See this is the split that I have in mind where on one hand you say that and you’re exasperated. But on the other hand you say well if I told her then she would say well like I said I was distracted and you left it out anyway.

CLIENT: Right, exactly. [00:38:13]

THERAPIST: So, which is you feel these very different ways about it that have no contact with each other. You know what I mean?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: You feel sort of sheepish and guilty and you’re an asshole on one side and furious and righteous on the other.

CLIENT: Yes. Yes, so I’m, I don’t know. [Pause]

THERAPIST: And -

CLIENT: Right, righteous because I almost feel like why should I have to tell you that there’s no need for 10 empty ice trays in the freezer? Why is that something that needs to be taught? But at the same time I don’t want to say that to her. [00:39:21]

THERAPIST: Right and when you think about saying it to her, you almost feel like you have no right to.

CLIENT: Exactly. Well if I’m not filling up the ice trays or taking out the empty ones but then I feel that if I did that I would just be cleaning up after her mess and she will never learn. But it’s not my job to teach her any other way so yes you’re right, there’s a huge split.

THERAPIST: I think so, yes. [Pause] It reminds me a bit of playing [pretty women] (ph) with your mom and brother and your roommate interestingly. The split between sort of really holding somebody responsible and, that’s not quite the way I want to put it, but anyway I mean sort of appreciating their diagnosis, you know what I mean? Like, the sort of split that can come from dealing with somebody with an addiction or something that really affects their functioning where on one hand you treat them like just another person responsible as anybody would be and on the other hand you kind of have to give them more room because they have this diagnosis. And those things are kind of separate. [00:40:57]

CLIENT: Right, but I have a hard time separating them.

THERAPIST: You have a hard time putting them together.

CLIENT: Oh really?

THERAPIST: Yes. You separate them. That’s what you do when you separate them. In other words -

CLIENT: Oh like they’re sick but they’re still a regular person.

THERAPIST: Yes, right. You respond as if they’re a regular person and get pissed off and feel every right to be and then you sort of image them as being sick and feel like well she’s sick, she really just can’t do it and I’m just being an asshole; I’m kicking her when she’s down and out (ph). [00:41:30]

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: [Pause] And, [pause] yes, and there’s kind of [00:42:10]

[Pause]

I don’t know. I guess I wonder if it comes, if it’s a way of warding off a feeling of helplessness or it comes from anticipating being helpless against actually getting them to do something. Like you’re really pissed off or you’re really guilty of I don’t know, you don’t really anticipate that people actually work with them. I’m not sure but there’s more to it. We should stop for now. [00:43:34]

CLIENT: Okay, so I’ll see you on Monday?

THERAPIST: Right and not Friday and the following Monday?

CLIENT: And not Friday and the following Monday. All right, thanks much. [inaudible at 00:43:45].

THERAPIST: No problem. Thanks, you too. Take care, Trina. [00:43:52]

END TRANSCRIPT