TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi! Come on in! [00:01:16]

CLIENT: (pause) How are you?

THERAPIST: Sorry?

CLIENT: How are you?

THERAPIST: Good, thank you.

(pause 00:01:50 to 00:03:05)

CLIENT: Trying to remember what I, what we talked about last week. (pause) (chuckles) Do you remember? (chuckles) That we picked up from there, so... The break is over, so it’s... I’m going to class tomorrow.

THERAPIST: I’m sorry. I’m having a hard time hearing you today. (client responds) Sorry. (client affirms) It sounds like you’re speaking a little more quietly today, but...

CLIENT: Okay, I’ll try (chuckles) to project my voice. I said the break is, my break is over so... I have to go back to school tomorrow. (therapist affirms) (pause) I feel like I didn’t accomplish what I wanted to during the break. (chuckles) I did have a very (chuckles) idealistic kind of a... plan to... hand over my like, first draft to my professor on the 20th. (chuckles) And you know, it’s like the 27th and I still have like, a third of it left or like... two fifths of it left or something. A quarter... [00:04:23]

THERAPIST: First draft of...?

CLIENT: Of my project, my novel, so... (therapist affirms) (chuckles) A very, very rough one, but you know... Because I got like, I lost ten days, helping my mom and my friend. I had a plan of like, writing a scene every day, and revising the scene every day. (chuckles) Yeah, right! (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Why do you say, “Yeah, right!”

CLIENT: Well, it is very, very like... yeah. I imagine... you know, my professors, not even all my professors, but only very few of my professors are like, are going to be able to stick to that. (chuckles) “That guy over there, he can do it.” (chuckles) Um... But I don’t know. I feel like not me. I’m too... I’m lazy, but I get easily... buffeted by winds, so... (sighs) Maybe that can be a goal, in a few years from now, that I will be that dedicated and motivated and strong and in control. (chuckles) [00:05:46]

(pause) Yesterday, I didn’t do anything like... I spent the whole day with Nelson, and I didn’t like that. (chuckles) I was hoping, you know, that, what we usually have been doing, you know like... come home in the mornings and like, work and then just meet in the evening, but... He’s so needy sometimes like... “No, hang out with me. Come here,” you know. (chuckles) So I just feel... I was thinking about other things at that time like, “You’ve done this, you’ve done that, you’ve gone to Home Depot and made keys, and you’ve cleaned your apartment, and this and that. All of these things make you feel in control. What have I done... to, that’s meaningful to me? Nothing!” I’ve just sat around all day. (chuckles) I didn’t even cook. Nothing that makes me feel positive and in control, you know. [00:06:50]

(pause) I don’t think spending time with someone makes you feel... or makes me feel in control and like... positive. (inaudible) I guess. Unless it’s a person you haven’t seen in a while.

(pause 00:07:18 to 00:07:52)

Plus also, it’s like... I feel kind of anxious now in his company. He’s, he makes a lot of money and he’s all about like, making more. (chuckles) I don’t even know if he’s being serious. He’s like, “Yeah, I want to make $25 million (chuckles) in the next five years,” and I’m like, “Okay.” (chuckles) This is ridiculous, but... But you know like, it makes me feel like I’m not doing anything with my life. (chuckles) I guess I felt the same way with David, didn’t I? (therapist responds)

(pause) I don’t know. I just feel like... the only time I don’t feel like that, I don’t even know if this is accurate, is when I’m focusing just on myself, and doing my work, and... doing things that I like, you know. [00:08:55]

THERAPIST: It sounds like you feel like you get easily lost in other people’s world.

CLIENT: That’s exactly what I was going to say today to you, that I feel like spending one whole day with Nelson is like I was immersed in his world, and I feel very lost and unanchored and like, “Who am I,” you know? Completely, I forget... (pause) I wonder why? Like, is it because I don’t have a strong sense of self, or...?

(pause) I’m not exactly a blank slate. (chuckles) There is a h*** of a lot on it (chuckles) like, a lot of baggage, right? (chuckles) Then where does... I don’t know. It’s not that I don’t feel the baggage, that’s not right. What exactly is it? (pause) Can you say more about it? Like, what you had, maybe it will start off something in my head. (chuckles) [00:10:16]

THERAPIST: Say more about...?

CLIENT: What you said, you know, I feel lost.

THERAPIST: Lost. (pause) I don’t have, nothing is coming to mind.

CLIENT: I just wondered like, what you were thinking when you said that, so...

THERAPIST: (pause) That. (chuckles)

CLIENT: (pause) (sighs) Well, I don’t know. How do you share... your, not life, not just like, just like even... a few hours a day, you know, with someone else, you know. How do you do that? (pause) Like, watching him clean his apartment and... you know, he owns this place, and you know, whatever and like, is talking to his family back in Nepal and... you know, okay, he’s hungry, so he wants to have bunch now, or you know, he wants tea now (chuckles). [00:11:42]

THERAPIST: Are there times, were there times throughout the day that you thought, “Oh, I could work on my writing for an hour?”

CLIENT: Oh, yeah!

THERAPIST: What prevents you from doing that?

CLIENT: Well, because... you know like... I guess I would just have to, should take like a stronger initiative and been like, “Okay, I’m just walking to my place now, you know. I mean, I need to write, I’ll just go, I’m just walking. See you later.” (chuckles) It was just like, nebulous, it wasn’t planned. I had a couple of events I could have gone to, that I didn’t; could have done my own stuff... I was like, kept asking him, “When are you leaving? When are you leaving?” He left like really late like, around 10:00, so...

I don’t know. He just was like, “Don’t go, don’t go.” I was like... “Well, I did have an intense writing week, so maybe I can just take a break. School does start on Monday.” I just get like, lax with myself, so... (chuckles) When someone is like, “Oh, stay,” I’m like, “Okay.” (chuckles) I guess that’s... that was what was happening, not like, whatever, a really well thought out plan in my head that, “No, I should really do this.” Now I’m like, “I shouldn’t do this!” I would remember to do it. [00:13:02]

I mean, I guess it’s no big deal, I guess, yeah. But I was just curious or interested in the kind of... I don’t even know if it’s neurosis, but you know like, just the kind of... state that, mental state that this sort of situation produces. I mean, you know, it’s not very... ideal, I guess. You know, I don’t exactly feel very upbeat and positive and like, you know, like I can conquer the world. (chuckles) Not that you need to feel that way all the time, but you know, for a significant chunk of the day.

THERAPIST: Well, it also reminds me of your feeling like you got lost in your friend’s PhD application, to the detriment of your own work.

CLIENT: Yeah. I just couldn’t lay down boundaries. Yeah, because I mean, ridiculous of him to be like, “Okay, we have ten days. Help me,” you know? (chuckles) So... But I should, I mean, I did, I tried. I said... “No, you know like, after 5:00, after 5:00, after 5:00.” On some days, you know, we did meet at 4:00, or 3:00... and I got like, a few hours of work done. But yeah, I was like, I did definitely put aside my own plan to do this. I mean, I keep telling myself, “Well, it won’t happen that often, it doesn’t happen that often.” (chuckles) [00:14:38]

(pause) I’m like, “How often do I get a chance to help somebody?” (chuckles) (pause) I mean, I don’t know like... you measure it in one territory (ph) and you really think about how, you know, Nelson has a house of his own at his age, you know. (sighs) It makes me, does make me feel like, “Oh, God! What am I doing?” (chuckles) But...

THERAPIST: (pause) I was thinking, you know, you usually talk fairly softly. Sometimes, you talk more softly than others, but there is almost a way, even in your like your voice, you make yourself small.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah? Like what?

THERAPIST: Well, that you can be inaudible at times.

CLIENT: (chuckles) I have got that a lot. (chuckles) I get that a lot. [00:15:41]

THERAPIST: Because you make yourself small. “Oh, he has his own house, and he has this and... I am just small and... I have a small voice.”

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, I mean... I do do that, I mean, yes. (chuckles) (pause) I don’t have a big... I don’t know, maybe that’s the contradiction of being, feel like I am big sometimes, but then... most of the time, I try to minimize myself. (chuckles)

(pause 00:16:20 to 00:17:35)

I was thinking of the friend of mine who is a singer and... thinking... (chuckles) She’s my height or maybe even a little shorter. She has a beautiful voice, and she just stands there on stage and opens her mouth wide and like, this beautiful music comes out. So... I guess I was thinking that, you know, being you know it’s like, it’s a whole, it’s the whole thing like... being (inaudible) or being not in the corporate world like, doing something... you know, against the current and like, and being an immigrant, you know. These are things that make me feel kind of... small (chuckles), you know.

But, it’s just me, because I guess there are... a lot of... people who have all these things that I just listed, but are loud, you know? Or can be loud, like my singer friend, like David’s mom, who has a very strong personality, you know? And she’s not done anything, except getting a PhD and bringing up a beautiful son, but... And like... you know... it doesn’t keep her from like, being very opinionated, very loud. (chuckles) [00:19:02]

(pause) Well, I guess breeding, you know like, she’s had... all her life, nothing but positive reinforcement, you know like... (chuckles) (pause) (sighs) (pause) I mean, I see what you’re saying about that like... if I project a small personality, people will perceive me as small, which is, I guess that’s what we were talking about last week. Like, I have... a say in how people perceive me. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: And it’s certainly how you feel about yourself. [00:20:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. Oh, I don’t know. I feel like it’s changing, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: (affirms) I think that’s true, too. There is your voice!

CLIENT: (chuckles) Is there? No, I mean like...

THERAPIST: That’s a good point!

CLIENT: What’s a good point?

THERAPIST: You said, “I feel it’s changing.” I said, “That’s a good point.”

CLIENT: (chuckles) Yeah, but like, staying by myself I think is helping that, I don’t know. You know, again like, it’s hard to be objective about so many things, but... this (inaudible), you know, I feel like that it’s like, my time is my own, my space is my own. Not, I mean, again, you know, I’ve had times when everyone like, again buffeted by requests for help and requests to stay over. (chuckles) But, when I’m at my, in my room, I feel grounded and you know... And even if I’m lost, it’s like... it’s like a space that I can, a head space that I can navigate, I think. (pause) I mean, of course, it doesn’t mean that I’ll stay locked in for... I mean, 24/7. You know, obviously, I need people. But how to get that on my terms a little bit more, I guess.

(pause 00:21:30 to 00:23:19)

Yeah, I also want to learn like, positive things from people, so that’s why, I guess, I feel I let myself... get... influenced a lot. So... (pause) Like, being lost in someone’s world, I guess that also means that you get to learn... about them, know their very intimately. (chuckles) You know. (sighs)

(pause 00:23:55 to 00:24:21)

I guess maybe the goal should be how to... get lost, but... not get lost, get lost is so negative (chuckles) maybe. But explore... from like, a safe enough... distance. I mean, if not distance, then at least have like, a shield or something that... protects you. (chuckles) I don’t know. It’s sort of like getting buffeted; at least have like, a... like a Batmobile or something (chuckles) in which you can... navigate and travel their world, but also feel like... you know, you’re in control, you know? You have the steering wheel, you can like, infiltrate, explore, and then get out or whatever. (chuckles) It’s a weird metaphor, maybe; I don’t know. [00:25:22]

THERAPIST: Feel more moored.

CLIENT: Yeah. (therapist affirms) (pause) I mean, it’s really like... it’s what David has taught me. I feel (sighs) like his work is, are his moorings. Like, that’s what he’s more into, so... I mean, he does come from a very stable family and like... you know... for generations, they’ve been stable at a place or, you know... But... so I mean, I feel like that counts for something, too. But... in the present moment, you know, he’s mostly just... his work is his like... core, you know. That’s who he is, what he defines himself by, and his thinking, you know. So I feel like... for me, that is... that should be my grounding, too. (chuckles) And my mom, I guess. I feel like those are the two things that I feel like, define me, you know. (pause) Or things that I care about.

(pause 00:26:55 to 00:27:52)

People, others can be very strong. I mean, they are strong. (chuckles) And they can like... whip you any which way, so... I guess like, I have found it very, very confusing. It can be so confusing, I mean... Like, David is all about scholarship and like... doing something significant and... like, socially significant or politically significant. Nelson is all about make money! (chuckles) So... I guess the question should be, “What am I all about?” (chuckles) (therapist affirms) And how to stick to that and not let... either of these guys be like... you know, “This way, this way.” [00:28:48]

(pause) Then am I... preparing (chuckles) myself to be... to like, live a very lonely life? I mean like... Will I, I mean... yeah.

THERAPIST: How do you mean?

CLIENT: (sighs) I don’t know. I don’t know if I want to get married or not. Mainly, I do; but in that case, I should learn to be... Shouldn’t I also learn to be like... a little less like... I don’t want to say a little less grounded. That doesn’t make sense. Of course, I should be grounded, but... less adamant about my position. I mean, I only am very, very little, very less adamant, so maybe there is no danger of that yet; I don’t know. No danger of being adamant. I don’t know. It could be!

(pause 00:30:00 to 00:30:56)

I mean, it’s... I don’t know. (pause) I guess I’m learning about like... (sighs) I don’t know what. (chuckles) I’m just thinking about like, the whole idea of getting lost in someone’s world, because... Well like, on Friday, it started out as something very different. (chuckles) Because you know like, the whole week I’m by myself, writing. I hang out with my mom, I hang out with David, and my friends in the community. And then... on Friday, there was this reading event. I don’t usually go to these, but... I went. The people from the school and writers from the school, who read their stuff. [00:32:12]

Then afterwards, we hung out at a bar. I asked Nelson (ph) to come join us like, because he was back. It was just like, three women that I know and him and then... I have no idea like, what was happening. I was... you know, I guess I was really buzzed. But I was talking to my friends, and I don’t know if we included him in our conversation or not. (sighs) But we kind of had a fight about that on Saturday, because like...

I went to a party by myself, and then I met up with him later, him and his friends. I don’t know, it was weird like, there was like, five of his friends I’d never met before. I felt like, “Whoa. Like, five strangers right in my face and like... they’re probably judging me,” because they know like, we’re dating. They’re his friends and these are like, he’s told me that his group is very tight or whatever. So, you know like, I felt like, “Okay, I’m on display or something.” I don’t know. I was, I had... I had had a bit of... a bit of alcohol, so I wasn’t like... I don’t know. I was sleepy. (chuckles) I can’t really remember, but then we were fighting about this for some reason. [00:33:33]

I think I said... I said, “Let’s go back to my party, because it’s still going on.” And he said, “No.” Then I said... “We’re always, you know, hanging out with your friends and not my friends.” Then, I don’t know, he said, “Well, you’re shy.” I was like... “Well, if I have strangers in my face...” And then I was like, “Well, you were shy yesterday. You didn’t seem to be talking very much.” He just got very upset at me. He was like, “I am good at this! I am good at random bar conversations. That’s my forte! (client chuckles) Your friends didn’t include me. They were talking amongst themselves. Only this third girl was talking to me. And... you know... your friends were shy,” you know. [00:34:23]

So I was like, “This is ridiculous!” (chuckles) I don’t know. I felt very... defensive and threatened and whatnot like... I felt like he was being very ridiculous like, or stupid or something because... I thought my shyness is shyness, but his shyness is not. I don’t know. I felt that’s what... was happening. I don’t know. But I guess the idea is like, we belong to different worlds. How do you, you know, blend those two worlds and like... (sighs) yeah. How do you defend your world? How do you belong to it, and how do you let it nurture you, because you know, this could go, this could create all kinds of reactions in my head.

This could make me not like my friends, if I feel like, “Oh, no. Why didn’t they include Nelson? Why were they shy? Why weren’t they talking to him,” you know? I don’t want to do that. I want, I mean, I’ve just met these people and I want to invest in them. I want... us to be long-term writing buddies, at least, you know, if not more. So... I don’t want that to be jeopardized, because of him. So then, I was just like, “You know, I should not have invited him at all.” (chuckles) Because, you know, I barely know these people and I want, my priority is to like, build a relationship with them first. [00:35:56]

(pause) I guess with David, that problem wasn’t really there. I can’t remember, because like... I didn’t even have friends. I think I didn’t have writing buddies that much. Maybe like, one or two or three, and we just met whenever. I think I did invite them over when they were in town, and he was, you know, civil. It was nice. Yeah. (pause) But mostly like, we had... I mean, there were his friends that I entertained and then like, people in the community we had met together. Just, we got with them together, so... [00:36:58]

(pause) I guess like, with David and me, there were more overlaps, or my world wasn’t that like... formed. I feel like right now, it is kind of forming. I feel like, maybe I should just like, really very carefully invest in this, think about it, think about... who I want to be friends with, and how to invest in them and... you know, hang out with them, just by myself. (chuckles) (pause) I guess once I do that, I will also feel less shy in the presence of... Nelson and his friends. Because like, I feel like people can give you strength. I mean, that is until you fight with them. (chuckles) Like I do. But until then, yeah, I feel like, that they can bring me strength, and they can make you feel like you are in a Batmobile. (chuckles) [00:38:05]

THERAPIST: That you are what?

CLIENT: In a Batmobile like, you don’t, you won’t be lost.

THERAPIST: A Batmobile, you said?

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) So...

THERAPIST: (pause) I just started thinking how Batman was an orphan.

CLIENT: (chuckles) Oh, God! (chuckles) From now on, don’t drink too much! (chuckles) I just meant that, I just like his car. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: It’s protected?

CLIENT: It’s shiny and black, and it can do all sorts of crazy things. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: It can fly, can’t it? [00:38:51]

CLIENT: Something, yeah. (pause) It’s probably like, practically indestructible also. (chuckles) (pause) It’s like the Stealth movie or like, you know, no one can see it, because it’s so fast, or something. (chuckles) No, you want, actually, you want people to see it, because that’s like... it’s like the Batmobile, you know. So you want people to see it, because then they’ll be like, “Oh, get off the street, you know. It’s like... It’s the Batmobile coming through!” (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Strong and powerful?

CLIENT: Yeah! (chuckles) (pause) It’s what you project, like you said, you know? Like, what he projects, you know. Okay that’s too many Batman references! (chuckles) I’m thinking of that... the sign, the bat sign, that he projects. (sighs)

(pause 00:39:57 to 00:41:29)

Yeah, he was yelling, too. I was just like, I was ready to like, walk home (chuckles), because...

THERAPIST: Nelson? (client affirms) And what was he yelling about?

CLIENT: Just the... (sighs) you know it was like, “You said three things that are contradictory,” and whatnot and like, just what the fight was about, me saying that he wasn’t talking to my friends. He was like, “No, they didn’t talk to me. (chuckles) I’m good at this bar conversation.” (chuckles)

THERAPIST: How did you feel about him yelling?

CLIENT: Oh, I didn’t feel good at all! I felt like a little child, you know? Like... you know. And I wanted to walk home. (chuckles) (pause) And I was, you know like, because I’m constantly comparing the two guys. I was like, “David would never do this!” (chuckles) I mean, yeah, he has his own ways of making me feel small, but I was like... “He loves me! You know? He’d never yell at me!” (chuckles) Maybe it’s not true. Maybe he has yelled at me, but...

(pause 00:42:41 to 00:43:39)

THERAPIST: What are you thinking about?

CLIENT: Oh, the things like... (pause) I don’t know; I guess I feel anxious now, because I’m with Nelson and like, “What are we doing? You know? What is this?” He doesn’t really care about me. He’s just like, using me. (chuckles) (pause) I’m like, “Why am I even thinking in these terms? I don’t care. I should focus on myself and my work (chuckles)... (pause) and build my world, you know, according to its own kind of principles. I have nothing to do with... his principles or David’s principles.” Well, I mean, you know, they’re probably closer to David’s principles, but... (sighs) [00:44:41]

THERAPIST: But you stay with him.

CLIENT: With who?

THERAPIST: Nelson.

CLIENT: Yeah, well... I can’t figure that piece out. (chuckles) (pause) Sex is complicated. (chuckles) Or it’s not simple. (chuckles)

(pause 00:45:02 to 00:45:23)

Are we out of time?

THERAPIST: Yeah, we’re going to need to stop now. (client affirms) So I’ll see you on Wednesday. (client affirms) Okay, great!

CLIENT: Have a good day.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Bye.

THERAPIST: Bye.

END TRANSCRIPT