TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: It�s still a better idea than 4:30. It�s hard when you�re not working. Break up my day in a way. My friend Mindy there�s like four of us. I grew up with Mindy, Lucy, and Stephanie and me and we were always foursome.

THERAPIST: Is this before high school?

CLIENT: Since kindergarten. And then we�ve all had our little hiatuses and pared off at different times and whatever. There were like three of us minus the bitch at the time, and you know at the time or whatever. And then I broke off with them for a really long time, because I had a falling out with Stephanie and I had a falling out with Lucy and Mindy was just kind of in college and she was doing stuff I wasn�t into and they�re in sororities and stuff.[1:12] But anyway, Mindy lives in Reno now. . She did a traveling nurses program and then some stuff in Reno and then something stupid happened and she couldn�t do the traveling nurses anymore, but then she also didn�t want to, �cause they were like moving all the time, and requiring that she work here at Children�s went together. And anyway, so she ended up in Reno and she�s a nurse out there and she was saying how if you do this, do that and it�s like compared to � �cause she came from one of the best children�s hospitals in the world.

So she�s going to be a boss in two seconds probably. She came into town. It�s her dad�s 60th birthday today. So the four of us, it�s like the only time that we all see each other is when Mindy comes. It�s really the only time we see Lucy, because she�s married and lives in Providence and is annoying and we hate her husband and whatever.[2:28] And so we got together, hung out, went out to dinner at a really bad restaurant Stephanie wanted to try around her house. It was really bad. And she�s like two for two with restaurants. The last restaurant that we went to was called Falafel. And I don�t know if I�ve talked to you about Lucy, but she is really rich. She married this guy Jim. They don�t have sex and she doesn�t care. They have their dog, and her dad buys them everything and he�s like, fat and bald and maybe gay, I don�t know.

THERAPIST: Her dad or her husband?

CLIENT: Husband. Her Dad owns a store. I don�t know if you�ve ever seen that building. You know that intersection if you go �towards the business school. [3:48]

THERAPIST: Wait. Sorry. Through � I�m a little confused.

CLIENT: Let�s say you�re coming down Harvard all the way away from Anaheim towards (inaudible at 4:03)

TGHERAPIST: all the way to the end

CLIENT: Yes. And there�s that set of lights.

THERAPIST: There used to be a sports bar.

CLIENT: Exactly. It�s now a pizza shop. That big building there. and it�s a huge national truck parts based out of � He just sold it, actually. Which we were all like, whoa. Anyway, he�s very, very rich. And I�d say Lucy � Husband is like, stupid and really lucked out with her, because like, he has a job now at the store and the whole thing. And she once � I don�t know if I ever told you this story. We got together for dinner one time and she�s like, one time Jim and I came here for an anniversary and we ordered, we ate, in and out 40 minutes. And we were like, what the hell?

And she�s like �cause, same conversation on the way to the restaurant, same conversation in the restaurant, same conversation in the car, same conversation on the way home, same conversation at home. And we were like, God. And she�s like, I know, it�s so boring. And her husband was like, what are you talking about. Married to this dude. So boring. And they don�t have sex or whatever. And then last night. This is just funny. I don�t know. It�s like this story has no bearing on anything, but it�s funny. She was talking about when he was in � he had to sit on a jury and it was a rape case, and it was crack heads and, you know, whatever, who knows. First of all, they�re talking about the rape case and vaginal irritation and like whatever.[5:46] He suggests that maybe � �cause he thought of his wife who wears spandex and sometimes she pulls up too high, and it gives her irritation or something. He was like, maybe she had her pants too high, and had camel toe and that�s what caused it.

THERAPIST: Oh, my God.

CLIENT: I know. First of all, Secondly, he at one point was trying to say something and used the word tits. Actually said tits and then she was like, when he told me this, I wanted to like, and we were like, oh my God, Lucy. Like, were you embarrassed for him? She�s like, something like, I know, I can�t control his brain. We were like, oh my God, he�s so stupid. And the way that she said it was almost like, I can control everything else, but I can�t control his brain.[6:41] Like, he�s in jury duty, he�s on his own. I guess it does have a little bit of bearing, because it�s like, no you don�t just marry whoever. Well, she�s kind of dumb and I think she doesn�t � I mean, she�s not dumb. She�s smart. She�s a dental hygienist. Like, she�s not stupid. But I think she just wanted a husband who like, she could just do whatever she wanted and throw her money around and he would just kind of follow her around like a little puppy, kind of. And like, not attractive ever. So like, she doesn�t have to worry about him � She kind of felt, even if she was with a more attractive them cheating on her or leaving her or whatever.

THERAPIST: I see. She doesn�t have to worry about that with him.

CLIENT: But it�s a little sad. I guess it�s not sad. Like, to the point that like how do you pay for her � like, her dad paid for her engagement ring or something? I don�t know. Anyway. [7:44]

THERAPSIT: Well, it also seems to follow that being man being incredibly disappointing. And the fact that anything of any value from and if you�re lucky, you can get one you can kind of control, so that at least you won�t have to worry about him.

CLIENT: In Lucy�s case it�s like, her dad is the main man in her life and the husband�s just kind of there or something. I don�t know. Very strange. But anyway. When you�re doing like � did you ever watch this video of a woman named Gloria in a session with Carl Rogers in 30 minutes. A session thing. Do you remember it?

THERAPIST: Yeah. There are Gloria videotapes she Carl Rogers and (inaudible at 8:410) somebody else. Maybe there�s somebody else that I -

CLIENT: Well, we only watched the Rogers one, �cause we�re learning in about subject-objects.

THERAPIST: Oh, this is in �

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Gotcha.

CLIENT: Sorry.

THERAPIST: That�s okay. It was a while ago, but I did watch them.

CLIENT: Right. Well, it�s old.

THERAPIST: I didn�t watch them live.

[Laughter]

CLIENT: Obviously. My mother would have, although I showed it to her yesterday and she said, this is something, because I think � she can�t really remember it that well, but she said, you know, I think I probably read the transcript of this and all of these, but we didn�t have the technology to see these videos. [9:20] So it�s cool for her. Anyway, I watched the Carl Rogers one this week in class, and she�s talking about how she�s newly divorced and how she�s struggling, because she doesn�t know what to tell her daughter. She feels she�s lying to her, but she also doesn�t want her daughter to judge her. And like, she�s just having a lot of � First of all, what I thought was interesting that somebody pointed out in the class that I didn�t catch onto is that she�s not making a distinction between � she�s not able to see the distinction between lying to her daughter and having a private life.[10:02]

You know, like it just feels lie lying to her daughter and she�s not showing her true self to her daughter, when really, she�s really just having an adult private life that her eight-year-old daughter doesn�t, you know, necessarily need to know about at that time and she�s worrying about the consequences and, later on if she finds out that she was lying how she�ll feel and how she felt about her mother.

THERAPIST: What would the lie be � it would be saying that she�s divorced?

CLIENT: No. That she doesn�t � Oh, so that the context is that the daughter saw an unmarried pregnant woman and, you know, the mother tried to explain it or whatever, and then she asked her mother, you know, well do you � like basically, do you have sex. You�re not married. And she said, no. And she said did you ever have sex not married, or something like �

THERAPIST: So that was the point where she wasn�t sure whether she should �

CLIENT: Well, she just feels so guilty about lying to her. You know, she�s just � and she feels Well, the gist of it is for me, what I was latching onto was her inner turmoil about is she really doing � what should she do that�s ultimately going to free her from feeling this guilt and stress and whatever about her children and being a good mother, but also being true to herself. [11:32] this was the theme. True to herself. And how does she know when she�s making the right decision. Like, she feels like she has these needs as a woman and in the moment it feels good and she�s making the decision, but then afterwards she doesn�t feel so good about it, so was it the right decision. But if she doesn�t do it, she still feels that she has these needs. Like, talking about seeing men or whatever. And that�s what struck me, because it felt similar to things I had done.

Well, I�m just going to go hook up with this guy, Albert �cause like, who cares and I just want to get over this person or that, whatever. But then after I�m like, eh, I feel worse. Like, whatever. And not � I don�t know. I guess I was � Just like if I continued to feel like I don�t � She was looking for a Rogers to tell her what to do. And I just guess it struck a chord with me because of what we were talking about last session in terms of what � I don�t know. I don�t really remember. My thoughts are so jumbled this morning. Well, I also had this moment Well, first of all then at the end of the discussion she�s having with Rogers she finally starts to talk about her dad.

And that seems like that�s the root of all the problems, all of a sudden she�s like, I know why she started to get so upset about that. �Cause she�s talking about how, you know, she never felt that she had any approval from her father and that�s why she, you know, respects � likes talking to doctors and therapists and older men that she respects that are educated or reading books or � and she�s like, you know, for example I�d like you to be my father. [13:28] she says that to Carl Rogers or whatever. And that she, you know, feels like he�s always wanted her to be better and, you know, she feels that she�s not ever able to live up to him, but at the same time she was explaining that she wrote him a letter the other day almost gloating that she is only a waitress and she�s divorced and she goes out at night and sees men and like, kind of like, see Dad like, this is who I am. This is who you raised. And that was similar �

THERAPSIST: In the sense of like, hey fuck you, Dad. It�s your fault?

CLIENT: Or like, fuck you, I�m fine and living my life anyway even though I�m not doing whatever you want me to.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And that felt like � I was like, whoa. That struck a chord with me because I�m thinking of my own father and how he�s always tried to � I�ve always felt like if my mother has always felt. Like he�s always trying to make me and Michael better. Like it�s not enough. It�s not enough that you�re in college. You should also be studying this. And it�s not enough that, you know, you�re into salsa dancing, you should do this educational � or like, you know, how he�s always trying to push these activities on me that I�m not interested in. .

THERAPIST: I don�t know that.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: I don�t think so.

CLIENT: Well, it�s always felt like to both me and Michael, but particularly Michael, but in different ways, because � particularly for Michael, because he really hasn�t ever done stuff. Like, he�s not been successful in any way. And it�s always, you know, he�s always felt like my dad is � like he�s not good enough and my mother has always felt like he�s felt like we�re not good enough. Like, he feels � we failed as children. [15:14] as opposed to him falling as a parent, kind of. And, you know, for me it manifests differently, because I did get a college education and I�d work or whatever, but it�s never been enough. In college it was always, why don�t you take a course on this, or why don�t you look into this. And it�s not enough that I�m just doing my school work, Dad? Or you know, when I got the MIT job, well why don�t you � oh, that�s good. Why don�t you go to this seminar and why don�t you go to that talk. Why don�t you take a course on whatever? It�s always felt like we�re not enough.

Like it�s not � and that�s why, you know, with Jesse he�s been able to, you know, drag him around to all these things that he�s interested in. And Jesse�s so smart and Jesse�s whatever. Like, he is the perfect child. And I have financial problems and have never been able to do this. And I was with a black guy or, you know, bad relationships. And so that part of the Gloria/Rogers function really struck a chord with me. But I mean, it wasn�t anything new, because for her it was like, it came out of nowhere kind of, even though she�s been in therapy before. But for me, that�s something that I�ve already touched upon in therapy with my mom and whatever. But anyway, I�m really liking the course. [16:38] I mean it�s like, really interesting. I think that Bailey (ph) is a really good professor and he�s funny and, you know. (pause) That Rogers was good. I mean, even though the Rogerian therapy is a little bit � can be a little bit enraging, just a little bit sometimes. Like, when it�s like � and then My mom was like, do you think Ethan does that, and I was like, I don�t know. I was like, maybe sometimes, but it�s not overt. So the way that he was doing it was � Also I pointed out that he goes mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm.[17:25]

THERAPSIT: Rogers?

CLIENT: Like, while he�s thinking of how to reflect back on her, but more in a more way that�s like verbalizing � whatever, saying what she said, but in a way that makes more sense basically. And I was like why is that mm hmm bothering me a lot in this video. And I realized it�s what my father does. And so I was like, he�s got that. I was like, he got that from Rogers. She�s like, maybe, but his timing is all messed up. He doesn�t do it at the right time.

[Laughter]

CLIENT: But it just reminded me of my father. Mm hmm, mm hmm. I don�t know, and it just irritated me. And then my mother. Okay. We touched upon this and then just like as if I wrote the fucking script, yesterday we�re in the kitchen and I started talking about this second date I had last week with the guy that � and I was offered, and whatever.

THERAPIST: that you had mentioned to me.

CLIENT: And she like, didn�t immediately agree that he should have like � I was getting a little bit annoyed and then just explaining and like, kind of getting upset, because I�m talking to my mother about it. I was upset about it. I wanted to be able to be upset. [18:45] And then she wasn�t reacting. She was like, well, when I was like he hasn�t called still. She was like, mm hmm. And then I got annoyed and was like no. You text and you say like, thanks for the ride, hope you�re home safe. And then she goes, this is really infuriating when she does this. She goes, well you know, I didn�t � I wasn�t part of this whole technology, you know.

And then I got really mad and I was like well, what the fuck, Mom. Pretend that there�s no text messaging. What did you expect a guy to call on the regular phone if he�s interested and at least say hello and make another date. And she still was like, well, I guess. And the she was like � and at this point I�m yelling and I�m really annoyed. She�s not talking to me about it. And like I said, I wrote the script. I have to talk to Ethan about this. Talk to your therapist about this. And I screamed at her. And I was like, we just talked about this. I knew you�d say that. I�m not talking to my therapist right now, I�m talking to my mother. [19:59]

[Laughter]

CLIENT: And it�s like, she really just like spoon-fed me that argument.

THERAPIST: I did not speak with her.

CLIENT: I�m sure she would have loved to have spoken with you, but she�s � tough noogies for her. But anyway, and then she like, got all upset and she�s like no, the issue is that I want you to be less reactionary. So I can�t talk to you when you�re like this. And I was like, okay, I�m glad you want me to be less reactionary. I would like to be as well. But to the same extent it�s infuriating when I�m trying to talk to you and you tell me to talk to my fucking therapist. I will talk to my therapist, but I�m talking to you for a second. [20:41]

THERAPIST: Right. That sounds like a cop out.

CLIENT: Right. And she didn�t get it though. She walked out of the room and was like, I can�t talk to you when you�re like this and you need to stop yelling. Or like, no. I was like, Mom, I just want you to agree that he should have called me. That�s all I want you to do. And like, wouldn�t. She was like, I just think that you�re reacting too strongly. And I was like, just fucking play devil�s advocate and be on my team real quick. Just be like, yeah, he�s an asshole. But she doesn�t want to, because she doesn�t want me to be reacting that way, so she won�t be part of it. When I just need her to. I just need her to be like, yeah, Trina, of course he should have called you.

THERAPIST: And he didn�t call.

CLIENT: But it was so on schedule of what we talked about last week. And (inaudible at 21:39) I am. I�m going to go into therapy tomorrow and talk about this specific incident right now. And you�re really fucking annoying. I�m not talking to my fucking therapist right now. She�s like, well do you yell when you�re in the therapist�s office? I was like, probably not as loudly, but yeah. I was like, I�m not yelling at you, Mom. I�m upset about this. It�s more upsetting when you have no reaction. Like, I tried to just start the conversation. Like, I tried to just start the conversation by explaining what happened. But yeah, I got a little upset and it turned into a little bit of this fucking asshole. No, fuck him. You know fuck him. No. Good. She�s like well, maybe he�ll call. And I�m like, no and if he does he�s done. You know like, done. And, you know, and then that�s when the whole like, I don�t know. Talk to your therapist. I don�t know why she does that. And her explanation is because she doesn�t want me to react so strongly to these things. [22:31]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But what does that have to do �

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don�t understand what the theory is there.

CLIENT: I don�t want you to act so strongly to things, so I�m just not going to talk to you about them. I need her to be a mother and just be like, eh, he didn�t call you? And she doesn�t do that and I don�t understand. �Cause if she did, I probably would react less strongly and would be like, I know, can you believe it? Oh, well or something. But it�s her tendency to just eh. But I�m, you know.

THERAPSIT: Right. It sounds like somebody�s trying to get through to her. And like your theory in a way is that if you show her how upset you are, she�ll come around.

CLEINT: But she doesn�t. She just turns the other way.

THERAPIST: And she�s saying if you�re this upset, don�t come around.

CLIENET: Right. And she�s also saying basically well, I don�t want you to � I think ultimately it is acting like a mother in the sense that she doesn�t � you know, I�m newly dating. She doesn�t want me to be getting so upset over these little upsets when the guys don�t call me, because how many more years � you know, or whatever. Maybe that�s her thing. I want you to be able to handle this a little better. But, I�m not understanding the correlation between that and then not talking to me about it. Or not letting me feel the way I feel about it. If I want to write him off, I have that right.

I can write him off and she should be right there being like, write him off. Fuck him. And I just said to her, I said why don�t you just play the devil�s advocate.[24:46] Like, who cares about this fucking guy. Talk to your therapist about it. I wanted to smack her. I was like, you just walked right into what I was just talking about in therapy. You even like put my finger on, really until last week. It�s like clockwork and so retarded. And I smiled and I was like, oh, my God. We just talked about this in therapy. And she didn�t even � she was like, what? It was just like, no, you�re yelling. I can�t talk to you. She didn�t want to talk about the fact that that came up in therapy. She like, somehow has this � I don�t know, acts like she wanted to talk to you. I don�t know. No, it�s weird.

Because when she wanted to talk to you it was almost like she wanted to make sure you knew how to deal with me or something. [25:58] but then when she�s deflecting, when she�s saying, you know, talk to your therapist, it�s almost as if she doesn�t want to take any responsibility for how I learn how to handle things, or something. You know what I mean? So which one is it. Or is she now using that more as a well, talk to your therapist since you didn�t � I didn�t talk to him.

THERAPIST: I wonder if there�s like a fantasy there, whether it�s hers or a little bit yours or where it is. But that she and I are your parents and, you know, there are some times where, you know, she�s got to kind of try to coach me on how to deal with you. And then there are other times when it�s like, go talk to your fucking father, you know.

CLIENT: That is what if what it feels like sometimes. And maybe she does � maybe she feels a little bit like that, because I don�t think I do. And I was thinking about that during the Rogers thing, because of when she starts talking about her father and saying, I�d like you to be my father. I was like, I don�t feel like that. I mean, I related to her father issues. I didn�t relate to oh, that�s why I respect these whatever. Like, like to read people, or, you know. I didn�t relate to enough. [27:28] But I can see that as something with my mother, because she can�t say, go talk to your father. And she really has never been able to, even when they were living in the same house. A little bit when I was a kid and I�d be asking for a new Barbie. It would be, ask your dad sometimes, actually. More ask your mom. Because she like, kept a close thumb over what he got for us, �cause she didn�t want it to turn into like, he was spoiling us and getting me all this stuff and, you know, once they got divorced. But I can see that manifesting in once, you know, it�s just kind of like �

THERAPSIT: (inaudible due to simultaneous dialogue at 28:08) for her. Right.

CLILENET: And I have to bring up my brother in all this, because it�s just, again, another example in my head of her having � putting so much energy into talking to him all the time, and how you doing and being his therapist and mother and whatever, that then when it comes to me, it�s like well, I know Trina�s more secure, stronger, not going to go use drugs if I told her to talk to her therapist, so I�m going to tell her to go talk to her therapist. As opposed to if she says something like that to Michael when he�s getting upset about something, you know, and he gets upset in very different ways than me, but she would be terrified to say something like that to him probably or something. And it�s just, of course, that it makes me feel jealous and resentful. Like, I kind of had my whole life of him in the sense that he has always had more problems and therefore he gets a little bit more in parenting or something. [29:10] A little bit more of my mom being a mom.

And when she talks about Michael like, it�s just so amazing. I can�t believe, and oh, he�s found a little job and � Oh, they were supposed to go Winchester. Apparently he was going to look at a room at an apartment or something. And I like, didn�t know how much shoveling and I really didn�t want to shovel her out, and I suggested that he make his way over to her house and shovel her out and they could go to Winchester. She was like, it takes a really long time for him to get anywhere because he lives in Providence, so he has to take a bus to the main square and then whatever. It takes a really long time and I�m like, mm hmm. And then we have to go to Winchester. I was like, mm hmm, what time�s the appointment? She was like, 5:00. And it was noon. I was like, it takes five hours to get from Providence? [38:08]

She was like, harrumph. Trina, I�m not going to ask him to do that. I was like, cool. And I obviously went and shoveled her out. And it wasn�t that bad. I�m like, whatever. But I also have done it three times this winter already, and it�s not that he�s not able to take the train places and got to work and stuff. I just don�t see that it�s that big of a deal that I should suggest something like that. From her it was very much like she didn�t want to even think to ask him to do something like that, because � Oh, and apparently there are a lot of triggers, or he got upset and really wanted to use, because he was on his way home on Friday night and all the couples or the, you know, flowers and the �

THERAPIST: Valentine�s Day.

CLIENT: And I was like, so did I. I mean, whatever. I don�t know. The point of the story is she doesn�t say to Michael when he�s getting upset about something, go talk to your therapist. [31:16] Granted, he doesn�t have a therapist yet. But he has this group and he has a sponsor and he has, you know.

THERAPSIT: I guess what you�re saying is you go over there, but she�s different with the two of you.

CLIENT: And she didn�t understand when I said her, I�m not � I don�t want to talk tonight. I�m talking to you right now. I know I can go talk to my therapist about this, but I�d like to talk to you. And then, it hurts my feelings, because she basically is saying well, I don�t want to talk to you when you�re like this, you know. But kind of, her reactions turned it into being like this as opposed to being able to vent a little and have her just pat me on the back and say, he sucks, you know?[32:13]

That�s what mothers do, I think. Maybe more so when your kids are young, and you�re crying over your first heartbreak when you�re sixteen or whatever, but to the same extent I still need her, want her to pat me on the back, you know. We have a different relationship than some of my friends with their mothers, �cause of being single mothers and the whole thing. I don�t think it�s that out of the ordinary for me to want that from her.

THERAPIST: I have a bunch of view, but I also am feeling like the good guy.

CLIENT: Yeah. You are the good guy.

THERAPIST: I mean, I�m also thinking of your associations to other good guys like Rogers, Bob Keegan and Lucy�s dad.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I don�t know what to do with that. I�m struck. I don�t feel like I�m always in that position. But I�m doing okay this week, apparently. [33:26]

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, maybe it is more the kind of thing that we started talking about last session and then how it just kind of totally manifested itself yesterday right in time for this session in terms of my mom and whatever and that could be lending to that feeling. I don�t know. For me, at least �

THERAPIST: Well, maybe it�s also � maybe it�s a version of it that�s much more familiar is that your dad is being very difficult and your mother�s understanding about it. And in this case, your mother is being difficult and I�m being understanding about it.

CLIENT: And my dad is off the wall and it doesn�t even matter, anyway. It doesn�t matter. He really, you know, you�re right. And I think you�re � that�s spot on. My father at this point, the poor schmuck, I just feel like writing him off entirely. There was a group text. My uncle � Oh. Oh no, I told you that the baby was born. That happened in the morning.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It was a much different Friday last week. [34:44]

CLIENT: What day � Oh, it�s Monday. I had a good weekend. Like, that�s what I think, you know, a bunch of stuff. But anyway, I think the baby being born really helped it. Well, so my uncle sends around this group message to, I don�t know, my dad, me, a couple hundred, or 200 people of him holding the baby. And I replied, looking good, gramps. Hours later, this is Valentine�s Day. I�m drinking wine and watching movies with my roommate, which was nice. We watched �A Fish Called Wanda� and part of �Airplane� and it was good, because they�re both movies that we�ve seen and we just know are funny. I ate a small pizza into my face. It was great. My landlord wasn�t home. It was great. I get this text message from my father. Hi, Trina. I just got this message from you. Is there something I should know? And I didn�t even know what he was talking about, because it was an individual message and I didn�t see any message from me. And then I called him and for some reason I got enraged. Like, was screaming at him. [36:00]

I can�t believe you fucking sent me that message. Like, my heart�s racing and I don� know what the fuck you�re talking about. It�s fucking Valentine�s Day. I�m alone. Like, I fucking hate you. Like, I was so mad. And it was because � and then he was like, well I don�t know, I got this message that said, looking good, and gramps. And I�m like, do you think I�m announcing I�m pregnant to you like, in this way, you fucking idiot. Like, didn�t you see the fucking picture of your brother as a grandfather? Didn�t you make � and then he turned it in to well, I was kidding, I guess. And then the thing got disconnected and I texted and I was like, goodnight, Dad.

THERAPIST: I wonder if what you were saying before where like given how he is about other things, it felt on some level like you�re saying well, this is how it should be. You shouldn�t be telling me now that you�re pregnant and having a kid and settled and I�m going to be a grandeur and all this. In other words, it made you feel inadequate and it sounds like the way he often does. The reality is you�re � you�re not happy being single, but you�re dealing with it, you�re home, and it�s Valentine �s Day. You�re like, you know, doing fine. And he�s saying oh, you really have this whole life I don�t� know about where you�re, you know.

CLIENT: Right. You�re pregnant and announcing it in a text message by saying looking good, gramps? And no, I would never say, looking good gramps, because you don�t look good. You�re old. It really infuriated me. And he wasn�t expecting me to get that enraged. But at the same time, I don�t know. It just made me feel weird. I don�t know. And my heart was racing. Oh, my God. What happened? Did I send him a naked picture instead of the guy, like Sergio or something? [38:00] I didn�t know what to think. I was like, is there something he should know? All of a sudden, it got me panicking. And I think also, because I would love to be announcing that I�m pregnant, you know.

THERAPIST: You�re really excited about the baby.

CLIENT: Right. And it was like, 9:45. It�s not even � it�s late. I�m like Dad, it was hours after he sent the message and hours after I sent my reply. I got this message from you. What message? And why wouldn�t he call me? Just the little things made me uncomfortable and upset, and I was able to move on from it very quickly. I definitely over reacted. I mean, I did not mean to scream to him about it. I could have just asked what the fuck he was talking about and found out. But I couldn�t help myself or something. I know that�s what my mother is talking about in terms of I wish you weren�t so reactionary. [39:06]

THERAPIST: I know you know what she means and that you � it often bothers you that you feel like you�re reacting more strongly than you wish you would. But, I can see there�s also something going on there with you and your dad.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I think that you picked up on one of the key things, which is always present which is just. Right, like are you going to be this way your whole life like, are you dating, are you seeing somebody? Like, are you pregnant?

THERAPIST: Are you secretly the person you should be? And I�m so excited about that possibility I�m going to believe it, even.

CLIENT: And my uncle said a little bit of the same thing. When he called me to ask me about � I had told him that, you know, �cause the last time he came up to me and asked me if I was dating at all and I told him that I went out with that guy, and we were going to plan another date. And when he calls me about the baby, he tells me about the baby and then he says, so did you see that guy again?[40:34] And I was like, I did, but you know, I don�t know. He didn�t call me. And he was like, well what do you mean? Call him. Like, as if then I�m the one screwing up this thing. And I said to him, no, Uncle Harrison. I�m not going to call him. Fuck him.

I�m excited about the baby. Can we just, you know, and he�s like okay. And then he got it. And then he�s like, you�re right. Sorry, sorry, good, good, good. Baby, baby, baby. You know. But I had to be like, no, Harrison. You know, fuck hm. But it did feel very much like, what do you mean? Call him. Like, so then now it�s like, maybe it�s my fault. You know, maybe it is your fault that you�re single, Trina. You�re dating these schmucks. These, ghetto black people who don�t do anything for you and then cheat on you and then you have to break up. But then, these good MBA. Catholic, make money you�re not calling, because they didn�t call you and therefore, you know. That�s really what it felt like. [41:30] Like, what do you mean? Call him. What do you mean? Go to the single night. What do you mean, go to Match.com. What do you mean? Date a 50-year-old. (pause)

THERAPIST: I think this is a pretty big thing, I guess. The idea that you�re not who you�re supposed to be and there�s a whole set of expectations about that that you have sort of disappointed. [42:10]

CLIENT: And I don�t feel that way at all with my mother. I mean, I feel that, you know, like when she �

THERAPIST: I guess, and you�re dating by you there�s a lot of that kind of hanging over it. I don�t mean hanging over it for you with � about you, but I mean, hanging over it like, between you and your dad and your family on your dad�s side.

CLIENT: Right. Absolutely. I mean, not only was he not Catholic, he�s black. He�s uneducated. He�s, you know, a drain on me and the rest of the world, which he was, but I needed to figure that out on my own. I mean �

THERAPIST: He came from not a lot.

CLEINT: Right. But I needed to do whatever the fuck I want to do, because I�m a grownup woman. But yeah, there�s always that air of �

THERAPIST: Right. I understand how that relates to Gloria.

CLIENT: Yes. Exactly. I had a hard time pinpointing that, but that�s what I felt.

THERAPIST: We should stop for now.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So I�ll see you on Friday. Okay. Take care of yourself.

END TRANSCRIPT