TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Our water still is not working, Cecelia (ph). I don’t think... is it working? Just a few drops. A few drops, so we’re, we’re still (inaudible), dispenser got broken. (inaudible) me out of it, that would be great.

CLIENT: Yeah, just like...

THERAPIST: Okay, great!

(pause 00:00:30 to 00:00:50)

THERAPIST: I wanted to let you know. I actually think, from a logistical standpoint, it won’t be a problem, because it probably will coordinate with your time in Nepal, if you go. But I’m actually going to be on maternity leave...

CLIENT: Oh!

THERAPIST: ...for about six weeks over the summer. (client affirms) It will be about the third week in June, and I plan on coming back like, early to mid-August, at least like, two days a week. So, I’ll be back in the office a little bit, and then kind of coming back full-time in September, so...

CLIENT: Okay. Congratulations! (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Thank you, thank you very much. I know you’re usually in Nepal during much of that time, anyway.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don’t know if I’ll go this summer (therapist affirms), but you never know. (chuckles) Yeah. I might go in the winter or something. But yeah, I don’t think that would be a...

THERAPIST: Yeah, I plan to be out of the office for five or six weeks, and then come back about like, you know, two days or something, and then come all the way back. So I’ll certainly be able to see you when I’m back. [00:01:57]

CLIENT: Okay, yeah, no problem. That’s exciting! (chuckles) (pause) Yeah, I don’t know what I’ll be doing this summer.

(pause 00:02:23 to 00:02:49)

So you’re like, due in August or July or something?

THERAPIST: No, I’m due the third week in June (client affirms), so I’ll be... I’ll obviously leave then, and then be out, essentially for July, and then be back at some point in August.

CLIENT: Okay. (chuckles) I guess...

(pause 00:03:05 to 00:03:40)

I guess it’s time for me to talk about myself. (chuckles) Feels a little, you know... Just a little odd, I guess, but you know, that’s standard procedure.

THERAPIST: Oh. What, I’m sorry. Which part of it is odd?

CLIENT: No, just, you know, like... yeah. No, it’s not odd, I guess. (chuckles).

THERAPIST: Odd that now it’s your turn?

CLIENT: Yeah, no, I’m just, I just, you know, talk about myself...

THERAPIST: Do you have questions for me?

CLIENT: About what?

THERAPIST: You said, you know, it’s because, well, I’ve told you something about myself (chuckles), you know. Did you have questions about that?

CLIENT: No, I mean, I don’t really, you know, know you, so (chuckles)... I don’t guess, I wouldn’t know what to ask, but...

(pause 00:04:30 to 00:05:04)

I had kind of a... an interesting weekend. Nelson (ph) and I had a fight, and like, I was like, so close to breaking up with him, but then, you know like, somehow that didn’t happen, so it was like... I don’t know. (chuckles)

(pause) I think... how did it... start... (pause) I guess like... I came to know that he was going to have dinner with his ex-girlfriend. I think be , I told you about that on Wednesday.

THERAPIST: You had said that you had read his text and you knew that there was some communication then.

CLIENT: Yeah, so they were having dinner and I was hanging out with my friends and then like, afterwards like, he came to pick me up and stuff. I was, I guess, feeling a little weird (chuckles), you know. And then, I guess, on Friday... like... later that night, I don’t know like... like, I cooked him dinner and then he was tired, so he fell asleep and then, when he was sleeping, I read more of his texts. Then I was just like, “Okay, they’re like flirting!” You know? [00:06:55]

I felt weird. It was like, 1:00 a.m. in the morning and I was like, “I couldn’t even walk home right now,” you know? Then I was thinking I’m missing Chris, and you know, because he would never do this, or just like, wondering like... what I had with Chris was you know like, was it pure like, was it like, more closer to love, you know?

Then this is, is this a sham? I’m just like... not even being honest with Nelson, and I’m like, maybe using him, and maybe he’s using me, too, or whatever. So just like, you know, weird negative thoughts and (chuckles), so... And then I was just, and then he woke up suddenly or something and like, you know, we were talking. He was like, “Yeah, I was wondering if I should tell my parents that I’m dating someone. (chuckles) [00:07:59]

So, he hasn’t like, yet, told them. And I was just thinking, I didn’t say it (inaudible) like... I don’t know, you know. That will make this more solid, and I’m not sure if I’m ready for that, you know? Because I feel like I should go back to Chris. (chuckles) I just feel like, you know, that’s like, the default state or something.

And then... I don’t know how it came like, he was just like, “Yeah, I have some like, concerns and like, you... as to what your future plans are, and like, I don’t know, you don’t live... you live from paycheck to paycheck and you know, that’s weird to me. You take all these favors from your friends and you’re like, maybe someone like me is just supposed to be in debt, and you don’t, you know, you wear shoes with holes in them and you know, you don’t really know what looks good on you,” and this and that. [00:09:12]

I was just like, (chuckles) I felt really insulted by all of that, you know? Like... so I was like, “Yeah, I guess we have different values. You know, you’re a corporate person, and your money is important to you. You imagine everything by money.” I was just trying to like, explain to him what exactly, you know, because like, I am trying to do something different, so... Yes, I’m going to suffer financial hardships while I do it, and I’m okay with that, and I’m okay with, I’m finally... I don’t know how it happened, but I did finally get over the fact that I’m living by myself, because, you know, it’s like... not by mys , you know, with roommates, but... You know, I was terrified of that situation, you know. I was unable to leave Chris at all, you know? Like... because everything about that terrified me, and like... the place is dirty and all that, so... [00:10:11]

But somehow I got over all that just... and you know, most nights that I’m not at Nelson’s place I am at my place. But I knew, you know, I couldn’t tell him that. So but I was like, you know, “I’m not ashamed of this at all, but yeah, it is temporary. I don’t expect to live like this forever and, you know, the favors I take aren’t really favors and, you know, they’re more like...”

So he’s like, “No, you keep saying your friends buy you drinks, and you’ve known them for years so...” Like, but they’ve actually bought me two shots, you know? (chuckles) And I could very easily pay for them. It’s just that I like saying those things, I like building this narrative of “Yeah, I have all these people who, you know like, take care of me or pay for things for me.” I just like thinking that, maybe because I didn’t have such an experience growing up, you know. [00:11:14]

I was, you know mostly like, neglected as a child. So now I like, I’d like to think that I’m surrounded by people who are... willing to... take care of me, or you know... That doesn’t mean that I don’t have to worry about rent and bills and everything, you know? So I was, I guess, defending myself, and I was really hurt by the whole like, you know, “your clothes are weird” (chuckles) comment. Then later on, he was like, apologizing and crying profusely (chuckles), when he, I guess, realized that, you know, he had hurt me or like, I wanted to break up.

So I guess we patched up, but then I’m just like... “What is this, you know? In the sense that... (sighs) I feel really conflicted and odd and like... that I’m betraying Chris, you know? Like, I think of him, that I’m making him immensely sad. I just feel very responsible and, you know, guilty. It’s very easy for me (chuckles) to feel guilty, so... It’s never been a problem for me like... [00:12:31]

(pause) But it’s just so like... I guess the initial impulse that had driven me away from him, saying, “I have, I want to live my life, I want happiness, I’ve been so unhappy for so long, I want the pain to end, la la la.” That’s kind of, you know, waned a little bit obviously, because I’ve done all of those things and I’ve, you know, had fun. But it’s just so like, I don’t know, addictive or, not even... I don’t, maybe, maybe addictive is too strong a word. Maybe it’s accurate, but I’m just like drawn to it still, you know, because like... yesterday we went to the gym, and we played squash with his friend, and like... I don’t, you know... that’s fun to me and I couldn’t... like... imagine doing that with Chris. [00:13:28]

I don’t know like, like, this might be make the whole, this dichotomy. I always look at... at, you know, at this problem of looking at the world like, in a binary state of one thing is either/or, you know. Either you have money or you don’t have money or... yeah. Either you’re idealistic or you’re not (chuckles). Yeah, I don’t know. Like, I’m like really drawn to how like, he’s, like Nelson needs so much attention and he gives attention and like... wants attention. Chris is like, not like that at all like... You know, he’s... cerebral and... (pause) I don’t know, subdued, so... (chuckles) [00:14:24]

I... feel myself like... I don’t know, I guess I see, you know, I see it as beauty, too. But I feel more drawn towards like, the more like, outwardly energetic personality of Nelson. But I don’t know. (pause) And I’m just like, I just have to stop thinking about these two guys (chuckles) still you know like... because... (inaudible) few more months of focusing on myself, you know and (inaudible) quiet (ph). It’s like, the last, kind of, leg... and... yeah.

(pause 00:15:21 to 00:15:49)

I mean, it’s great being independent and on my own. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: What’s great about it?

CLIENT: Well... I don’t know. I guess... There is an immense comfort. I don’t know if that’s the right word. I don’t think it’s... There is discomfort, too. But there is like, this like... leaning that I sort of do, and there is like a humor in it, in the sense that I lean, and there is no one there but me (chuckles), you know? And my past and my... present and some kind of vague idea of future. So... it’s like, this like temporal me that I get to lean on (chuckles), you know what I mean? And I don’t know. It feels like, solid and not solid at the same time. I don’t know. I’m having (chuckles) trouble describing it, but it just feels like... I think that’s what it feels like. [00:17:03]

Because like, when there is... when I’m with say, Chris, he is like, I’m totally like, spineless. I sometimes feel... Most of our relationship I feel like I had been spineless. Maybe not, I don’t know, because I had a job for most of our relationship. But even then, you’re like, intellectually I allowed myself to be spineless in order to learn, even though, even when you’re a student, you don’t, you shouldn’t be spineless, or heartless (ph) or whatever. So I like, leaned on him for stuff and, you know, another person feels more solid. But there are also all these things that come with that like, expectations and this and that. You look at their flaws and they seem, they can seem gigantic or something. I don’t know. But like, when I’m independent... it just feels different. (chuckles) [00:18:14]

(pause) I don’t think that worry has gone away, as to what would people think about me. But I feel like I can see me more clearly, you know. I still might think of myself as a basket case and people don’t like me (chuckles), but... in a sense I feel like, I don’t care! (chuckles) (pause) I feel like there is a little less pressure now, because like, with Chris, I felt... or with anyone, I feel like, more under pressure to be, to measure up to like, some idea of like, an ideal... girlfriend or whatever, you know, partner. So... [00:19:18]

(pause) Like, we had this good-bye party for this young girl who is going to Nepal to be an independent journalist. Everyone was going around and doing their introductions. I don’t know like, when it came to my turn, I suddenly thought that I would tell them about the summer. (chuckles) I don’t know how that happened, but I just kind of... It wasn’t more, I guess that was a little impulsive, but then I kind of wasn’t very... I was very like, strategic about it. I didn’t name any names, I just said, you know, “You’re going, and I just wanted to share this with you, that the summer, I had kind of attracted some undue sexual attention and, you know, so...” [00:20:24]

Her parents were there too, so I was like, “Yeah, you know, sorry, but you know, I’m sorry to change the tone of the gathering, the conversation, but, I just want you to be careful and...” Because people were like, giving her tips and stuff and silly things. “Oh, do this, eat that, you know? Get over the virus, you know, this and that.” So I was like, you know, practical tips. You know, “Take a cell phone, take a smart phone and do this and, you know, how to avoid... (sighs) being in that situation.” So...

I guess I was thinking about what that means like, am I still letting that incident define me, and how would people think of me. Then like, why am I the only one with such stories in like, polite conversations (which, you know, wasn’t the case actually, because like, her mom was like, “Yeah, something like this happened to me. This driver was showing me dirty pictures and...”) (chuckles) So it’s like, all the women in the room were like, “Yeah, you know, this always happens and...” So... I felt like I had, you know, brought up something difficult, but necessary and you know, it felt like, the burden of it (chuckles)... I mean, I felt burdened, but then it was also like, you know like, dusted off, you know. It’s, I’m like a story... in a set of stories like, in a narrative and that’s, you know, that’s fine. Then I just kind of left, and walked away. [00:22:00]

So, because I didn’t really want to stay in Arlington. Okay, how is this person’s reaction to me, is it change, is it change, is it change, you know? (chuckles) (pause) I guess that’s, it ties to like, my... and your comment about like, being independent. It’s like... it’s like that, you know. It’s like, it comes with its costs. You come to a gathering and you have a story, and it may totally change the tone of everything, but you make your mark and you leave, you know. You hope that you have contributed and that’s the extent of it. You hope (inaudible) already know, that’s it. (chuckles) And you stand by your word, and you stand by your actions, and you take responsibility... and... yeah. (chuckles) (pause) I mean, it’s not that new thing, so like you know... So I’m not like, an old movie (ph) or anything, so... (chuckles) [00:23:18]

THERAPIST: How do you mean?

CLIENT: Well, it’s not like, when I say, “make my mark” or anything else, it’s not like... you know, I went to outer space or something ridiculous like that. It’s quite, you know, common or... you know, my story or whatever, so...

THERAPIST: I’m sorry, what, the story about what happened over the summer?

CLIENT: Yeah. So... I mean, just because I feel it intensely doesn’t make it like, unique. (chuckles) So...

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you wanted to share something about what could happen in Nepal, or do you feel like you were also trying to share something about yourself?

CLIENT: Yeah... I don’t know. Like, I can’t differentiate between the two. People were like, “Yeah like, introduce yourself and like, if you don’t say what we know about you, we’ll fill in so...” You know, we were doing that for each other. (chuckles) Then I was like... “You’re going to Nepal, and here is what happened to me. You’re kind of going in a similar fashion to like, to write and like, chase stories. I did that.” [00:24:39]

I guess I also wanted to show off. (chuckles) Because I felt like, “Hey, I’ve done that! What you are doing is pretty cool! But I did that, too!” (chuckles) Yeah, so... Because, you know, it was like, “Well, here is a strong, independent woman.” I wanted to come across that way, but then, I don’t know. It’s weird, isn’t it ironic that, you know like, I wanted to come across as a strong independent woman, but I chose to share a story about how I was like, you know, kind of undone or like (chuckles)...

THERAPIST: What do you think about that?

CLIENT: That just might be who I am, you know, it’s like that. (chuckles) It’s like, with great, you know like, with independence come all of these, you know like... you know, burdens or whatever, so. I don’t know. I’ve always like, I guess I’ve always been like this, where I’m like, trying to be... the most unique person in the room, you know? (therapist affirms) So... (chuckles) which is funny, because like, now that we’re like, so old (chuckles) and have lived... All of us have had varied experiences, all of us are unique, but... I don’t know. I was like, “I’m going to... burst everyone’s happy bubble,” I don’t know. (chuckles) Must have been a million reasons why I wanted to share that story. [00:26:18]

THERAPIST: A lot of times, when you share what happens at one of these events, it’s kind of light, or a little bit removed. But I imagine in the moment, you feel things very intensely.

CLIENT: Yeah, probably.

THERAPIST: That leads you to, you know, say what you say or do what you do, that it’s very intense for you.

CLIENT: Hmm... yeah.

THERAPIST: Maybe casual is the word I’m looking for, that when you’re talking about it in here, there is a little bit of a casualness about it. But I don’t imagine it feels casual to you at the time.

CLIENT: Yeah, definitely doesn’t. Um... I don’t... I know I definitely feel things intensely, and I don’t know what exactly you want me to say about that like... I don’t know. Whenever I hang out with these people, I sometimes... certain like, combination of factors makes me have like, intense reactions to things. I don’t know what it is. Like, what should I explore now? (chuckles) What do you want me to talk about? [00:27:31]

THERAPIST: It wasn’t necessarily a directive. I was just sort of making a comment or an observation that I thought might be helpful for us to think about. (client affirms) It wasn’t like, “We should now talk about this.”

CLIENT: No, but like, in what way helpful like... Like, what are we focusing on? Like the fact that I relate it casually later on or...?

THERAPIST: I mean, that’s certainly one thing. I mean, I guess I was thinking about just, what I was wondering what that experience was like for you in these moments in the group. How you relate it after is interesting, too. (chuckles)

CLIENT: Yeah, oh, at the moment, yeah. Like, it’s like my comparative mood is on. As I feel like, last time, this time was like, must be on for everyone because like, this woman who is going to Nepal like, her parents were... It was never... I don’t really know her for very long like, for maybe a month. Her parents... they’re you know like, ideal textbook parents (chuckles), you know? In the sense that, you know, her dad has always had a job like, he’s, I don’t know, I think he’s a doctor or something. He’s also kind of idealist and has gone to Africa to do some aid kind of work. (pause) The mom is very pretty, brought up two kids and like, re-did all her education when she moved to the U.S. She rows (chuckles) like, in the Charles, the team or something. So, you know, I was thinking like, “Oh my gosh! I mean like, these guys could give anyone a complex, you know? Because they’re like overachievers.” (chuckles) [00:29:24]

I don’t know and like, my mom was there and like I just felt a little like, you know, not necessarily put down, but like, you know... And I didn’t actually feel that very, that intensely at that moment, that “Oh my gosh, we are nothing and we don’t have...” I didn’t feel it. I mean, they were, I was feeling it, but not as intensely as I have felt it in previous times, like a victim, victim like, they were... (sighs) I just felt old, you know? (chuckles) because I don’t know, she’s like maybe in her mid-20’s. So... yeah. The intense feeling was that of like... of an outsider, I guess. And more so, because I wasn’t, you know, Chris was there, but like he wasn’t, I wasn’t with him anymore. So, I felt like an outsider. [00:30:31]

And, it’s funny because like, it was a very small gathering (chuckles) and I was one of the people invited. Obviously I was flattered, and I went and stuff, but like... And when I was introducing myself, people were like, “Yeah, no, she’s a very good writer and this and that.” I was, you know like, it’s always, you know, I’m always happy to hear that. But it still like, you know, what you’ve experienced... or what I’ve experienced, you haven’t experienced. That kind of makes me feel intensely like an outsider, or not understood, partly because I don’t want to be understood. (chuckles) So... yeah, I guess, yeah, I feel those things intensely at these gatherings. I don’t understand completely where that comes from, or maybe I do. Like, it’s part of being insecure and... But I was hoping I would grow out of it a little bit, in terms of being independent and... I’m wondering if I am growing out of it. [00:31:53]

THERAPIST: What was it like, you know, sort of seeing and knowing a little about her parents, and you were there with your mother there? What was that like for you?

CLIENT: It was like I said, it wasn’t that intense, because... (pause) (chuckles) It was like, it was senseless even, because like, her mom like, was telling us how like, her grandfather was this famous teacher at a famous university and... Yeah, so it was you know like, “Oh, you know, that’s nice and you know, we, yeah, I’ve been to that university.” You know like, Chris was saying, “Yeah, my mom was kind of born there, too.” So, I was kind of removed from it a little bit. I hadn’t slept the night before, so I was tired and I wasn’t like over-thinking like a maniac, like I usually do and... [00:32:59]

(pause) And I was, you know, I had a fight with Nelson the night before and I was going to see him later on, so... And it was like, because of, so I think because of Nelson, because of seeing him, I feel like I’ve already put one foot out the door at these gatherings (chuckles), which is like, I think is a good thing for me. (chuckles) Not in terms of like, “Oh, I feel like an outsider and this makes me feel even more like an outsider,” but it kind of makes me feel removed like, I think of it more as a shield... you know? Because if I were with Chris... at that time like, you know, like Nelson was not in the picture and then that, this event, evening would have been completely different in my head. [00:33:55]

Because such things have happened in the past, and I would like, felt intensely like, “Oh my gosh, these people! They have everything and you know, illustrious families and lineages and this and that, and I have nothing!” (chuckles) I don’t feel it so much this time... because I didn’t have the time to think. I think I should include that as a factor, time or energy to think, but like... (sighs) When my turn came to speak, I did tell them, “Yeah, I’m writing this book and it’s about this and it’s about that.”

I felt kind of secure in that, you know. I mean, it’s a very insecure thing (chuckles), you know, writing itself is a very insecure thing. But... just that little concrete thing that it’s, you know... that I could actually count the pages now and stuff, and the planning will fit, and the planning going forward. That little bit of concreteness kind of gave me a tiny amount of security and... Then, you know, the story that I told was in terms of like, as an older kind of sisterly guidance. So that made me feel... like I came to this kind of scenario with my mom being there, and her parents being there as kind of like not equals, not equals, but like... almost equals, I don’t know. Like... different, but... I could contribute, you know? Despite the fact that we were hopelessly... unequal in our upbringing and finances and... (pause) Because like, you know, that’s the thing. Like, every person can contribute something, no matter what their financial background, you know? And that gives me hope that, you know, there is... there is some kind of... meeting point or there is some kind of value to that, even if people are not equal.

(pause 00:36:24 to 00:37:20)

It was at the house of this woman that I have difficulty with. Like, in the sense that she was the one who had a birthday party and you know, didn’t invite me and like, I saw the pictures on Facebook and stuff. I always have trouble with her, because like... I, the thought of her has depressed me before, because you know, she was, she got married when she was 18 and... like her husband is, I don’t know, 10-15 years older than him(sic), I respect him and appreciate him a lot, but her like, I’m, I have a little trouble with, because...

(pause) She says like, she’s weirdly confident and ill-informed. So that makes me feel very judgmental and yet, you know, she’s a woman and we’re in the same like, women’s group and I’m supposed to like, support her. Yet she’s very cliquey, you know like, you know... because... and... Yeah, she like, whenever she meets a new girl, I feel like she wants to like, make friends with her, which is kind of, which has kind of been my mode. And I’m like, so I guess I was feeling a little threatened, too, by that. [00:38:35]

But then like, when I was leaving, I saw her at the laptop. I was just like, got like, this image of... I mean, I just kind of tried to understand her a little bit in the sense that, you know, if I were in her shoes, I would go crazy! (chuckles) Because, you know, she had a house full of people, she did at the moment, and you know, she has a husband and a child... and what if she wanted to be a writer? What if she was trying to write something. I remembered my, the same dilemma, I had the same dilemma you know, not too long ago, where I just felt so like... claustrophobic and you know like, “There is no space for me to write!” Or you know, because like, my mom and Chris were living... under the same roof and... I mean, I fought and created my space and my time and Chris actually was quite understanding and helpful. I’d go to the library, I’d go to cafes and write. But you know, I just saw her as like, being hemmed in, and I felt bad for her, for just a little bit. (chuckles) But that doesn’t mean that, you know like, as soon as she opens her mouth, she won’t like, baffle me or (chuckles) annoy...

(pause 00:39:56 to 00:40:20)

Do you think I’ll ever resolve my like, dilemma with Chris and Nelson? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: What do you mean by resolve?

CLIENT: (sighs) I don’t know! I mean like, will I get married, will I have a child? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Like me?

CLIENT: Yeah. Oh, are you married? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Yes, I’m married. (ph)

CLIENT: Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess the... (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I was thinking about the “have a child” part, but I guess the whole thing.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Because I had like, as a joke said to Nelson, “Yeah, you know like, by the time you’re 30 you have to have at least three proposals, and I have three proposals.” Like, he was like, “Can I be the fourth?” (chuckles) “I’m the fourth!” You know, just like, “Oh, God!” You know? What does that mean? I’m not really sure what this means, but I think that like... now I feel, I’m starting to feel the pressure (chuckles), you know. [00:41:22]

THERAPIST: Pressure of...?

CLIENT: Like, it was all very like, my conflict because I’m just like... yeah. I’m torn between the two of them, but still... Maybe time will take care of it, but I feel like in my head and in my heart, things are still kind of... they’re confused. I’m confused.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, when you first said “resolved,” I thought of it as more of kind of an emotional process.

CLIENT: Yeah, that. That would be nice. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: And then I thought of the “married and child,” I thought was sort of a “club” that you want to belong to?

CLIENT: But not really?

THERAPIST: But then, right, there is the flip side of looking at this woman. Maybe she’s hemmed in or even worse, like your mother, is trapped (client affirms) by marriage. I think it’s a very conflictual thing for you. [00:42:24]

CLIENT: It is. (chuckles) (pause) Which is weird, because like, I, immensely enjoy doing things for... others. Like, that’s like my favorite part of being in a relationship. Oh, are we done or...?

THERAPIST: We have a couple of minutes, you’re fine.

CLIENT: Yeah like, for Chris and even for Nelson. Now, he was like, “Oh, you made me tea when I was sick, that was when I...” I was like, it was like... it was we haven’t even scratched the surface like, that’s nothing. I can do so much more, you know? (chuckles) So... I guess the other (inaudible) are two very different things. Like, doing nice things for your partner, versus the whole like... the cage or the commitment of marriage. (paus3) And I guess I’m trying to have one without the other. (chuckles) So... It’s like renting, you know like, versus buying a house. Like, all the renovations you can do to a rented place kind of feel like they go nowhere at the end of the day. But when you do it to your own house, it’s something you own, it adds up. (chuckles) It feels like it adds up.

(pause 00:44:14 to 00:45:14)

THERAPIST: Well, Cecelia, we’re going to need to stop for today, okay? Thank you for adjusting the time today, I appreciate it.

CLIENT: Oh, no problem.

THERAPIST: And I will see you on Wednesday.

CLIENT: Yeah, see you! Oh, at 9:50?

THERAPIST: Yeah, regular time, exactly.

CLIENT: Okay. Thank you. Have a good day!

THERAPIST: Take care, bye bye.

CLIENT: Bye!

END TRANSCRIPT