TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Good morning.

CLIENT: Morning. I’m tired today. (pause) Sorry. (pause) So after work yesterday, I went to dinner with this guy Marvin who was on the membership committee with me at the museum. We like got along and he seemed like a nice guy, so I like had said to him “We should go to dinner sometime.” We planned it, we went out. He was all flustered because he was running late and had to feed the meter and whatever.

[00:01:01]

I was like “Oh, don’t worry” but that made me feel better because I was wearing Uggs and hadn’t showered and you know, whatever. Because yesterday morning I forgot about it when I was rushing out of the house.

THERAPIST: Right, right, right.

CLIENT: (pause) And like it seemed okay. We went to a tavern and the food is really good there. And it was like different than the other dates I had gone on because I’ve already had a bunch of interactions with him at the museum and at the events and whatever, which is fine, normal. So it was good. But he kept on like well, not kept on, but he was like asking a lot about why I quit the museum committee and what happened with Lucas. “Oh, you guys were such good friends. Like you were so funny to watch interact,” da da da.

[00:01:59]

And then like started talking about how he thinks it’s weird that he married this girl and “Do you think she’s after a green card” and whatever. All of it was very uncomfortable for me, obviously. So I kept wanting to just change the subject which was fine, but he was clearly curious about the whole situation, so okay, whatever.

Then the bill came. So first the bill came and then it sat there for a while. We were chatting, finishing a drink. Then she came and she’s like “Do you guys want another drink?” and I was like “sure” and he was like “yeah, sure.” So she took the bill away. Then the bill came again and it like sat there for a minute. Then he like was slowly reaching for it and like turning it over. I kind of always say this, just because I feel like it’s the right thing to say, “Hey, do you want to split it?” Who says “yes”? So we split it and I had to charge it, and now I have more debt because I had no money.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Because I got paid today.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: (chuckles) So I was like completely unprepared for him to be like “sure.”

THERAPIST: Right.

[00:03:05]

CLIENT: It was just a bad move. I’m really sorry. I’m all about feminism or whatever, but like on a first date, you should just not say no, you don’t split it. And like why wouldn’t he just grab it? No, you just grab it and like, I’m sorry. Anyway, so that was kind of like, okay. And then like whatever, he was going to his car and I was going to the subway. He did offer to drive me. He’s like “Are you sure? I can give you a ride.” I was like “no” because he lives in Malden.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I was like “no.” So then we like hugged goodbye normal, like we always like normal. And then he texts me like “Are you home?” and I was like “Yeah.” Well, first I got home and was like really upset. I was talking to Stephanie and then I called my mom crying. This seems to be happening after like every date. (chuckles)

[00:03:59]

Like I come home and I’m like sobbing, and it’s awful and I feel horrible about myself. And I don’t like these guys, and something went wrong. Then I feel like, what did I do wrong? Because then I get this text like “Are you home?” and I was like “Yeah, I had a nice time. Talk to you soon.” He writes back “Nice. Have a good night.” Nice? What the hell? And like Stephanie is like “I don’t understand why you think it’s you. Like obviously he just turned out to be kind of like awkward and like whatever. Like why do you automatically go to “ Because I was texting like “I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong with these guys who are not interested in me.” She’s like “Nothing.”

THERAPIST: How were you clear that he was not interested?

CLIENT: I don’t know. Because who doesn’t pay? Or if he’s broke, then I’m not interested. Like no offense, but I’m broke. I don’t need another broke person.

[00:04:59]

But also the fact that he didn’t say “Me too” when I said “I had a nice time.” He didn’t say “Oh, me too. We’ll have to do it again soon.” Like I can almost promise you he would never initiate a second date. So then there was that other guy that I went out with twice and then he never called for and I don’t know. And so I keep automatically going to like, I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong. What am I doing that’s not, you know, whatever. Even though who cares because I the reason I end up feeling upset about all these dates after them is because I don’t feel anything other than I could take it or leave it. That’s not what I want to be feeling.

[00:05:59]

I want to feel excited to see somebody again, who is excited to see me and it’s just not happening and I just don’t understand what the [plan is]. Stephanie is like “Just dust yourself off and go on more dates.” But it’s like I’ve gone on a number of dates already, I feel like. Not like a huge number but for me, like a decent amount of people and dates because I’ve never done this, you know. It’s all the same, it feels like. I just feel horrible afterwards.

And then it snowballs and I start to feel and I’m angry at Franklin [ph] and then I miss Franklin [ph], and then I’m mad at him that it’s his fault that I’m even in this situation, then I’m mad at the cats. I got home and was already upset and then I pull a dish out of the two dishes that are absolutely filthy. Like not just like a little speck of something or like a little greasy on the bottom. Like greasy on the top, tomato sauce on it, like tons of soup on it.

[00:06:59]

I’m like, what the fuck dude? You can’t rinse the fucking dish that you ate off of and then fucking stick it in the thing? So then I started yelling and screaming. She wasn’t home, so I’m like raging to the cats. Like “Fucking selfish. Fucking stupid whore. Goddamn idiot motherfucker.” Like screaming. (pause) Because I had a shit day, it feels like, and then I come home and I can’t even depend on her to wash the two dishes that she washes right. (pause) (sighing) (pause)

[00:08:35]

THERAPIST: Well, I guess the days have really felt like failures.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm.

THERAPIST: And it isn’t even sort of like a joint failure, you know, that he doesn’t have his act together and clearly in some ways that you’re not entirely clear about, you don’t have your act together either.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So it’s just kind of all fucked up.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And with your roommate too.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm. No, I have my act together in my house.

THERAPIST: I guess what I had in mind is that you picked a roommate like this or something.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, I do feel that way.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Like it’s what I was saying yesterday. Like I just feel like every decision I make is retarded.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[00:09:25]

CLIENT: And on top of it, I’m supposed to get my period this week, and I was supposed to get it on Monday or Tuesday, Wednesday at the latest. And I still didn’t have it this morning. I think it’s stress-related because the only person that I slept with since the last time I had my period was Albert once and we used a condom and for all I know, it did not break or anything and I’m on birth control.

THERAPIST: Mmm-hmm.

CLIENT: And so then I think about well, if I’m pregnant, I couldn’t even make the right fucking mistake decision and get pregnant by Sergio who at least I could get some money out of for child support. My mind even goes there in terms of decisions.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Like I thought of that this morning. Like well, if I’m pregnant, then it’s probably Albert’s and he’s a fucking loser and has no money. Like fuck, I fucked that up too, you know? Like I fucked this mistaken pregnancy up too if (inaudible at 00:10:16).

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Which I hope to God it doesn’t because that would be fucking pretty close to the immaculate conception like in terms of -

[00:10:27]

THERAPIST: Yeah, it would be pretty amazing if it was, yeah.

CLIENT: So I think it’s just stress-related, whatever.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That’s bothering me too.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: (pause) The only thing I feel okay about right now is the fact that I did most of my schoolwork for the week already.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I don’t have to worry about it this weekend. (pause) But that’s only because I feel like such a mess that I feel like I wouldn’t even be able to do my schoolwork this weekend anyway, if I hadn’t done it already.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: (pause) And my brother I think is like moving this weekend into an apartment that he found with a bunch of guys who were also in the same place [ph] and they are sober and in program.

THERAPIST: Right.

[00:11:33]

CLIENT: So now my mom is going to be all wrapped up in that and needing me to help her and be supportive and be a cheerleader and maybe help carry boxes and go to the storage space. And I will obviously, but it’s just (pause) It’s just a really pervasive feeling of not having anybody who takes care of me.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (long pause)

[00:13:52]

You did your homework that’s due next week for class?

CLIENT: Well, the assignment was due on Thursday. Wait, what are you asking? I’m sorry, what?

THERAPIST: You mentioned the only thing you’ve done is your homework next week for class since you didn’t trust yourself to do it this weekend.

CLIENT: Correct. Yeah, it was due on Thursday. I handed it in on Wednesday. That was the big assumptions list with the experiment that I don’t have fully formed.

THERAPIST: Gotcha.

CLIENT: Or formed at all [in the assignment].

THERAPIST: That was what you had mentioned yesterday -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: and handed in the day before.

CLIENT: Right. And it was due yesterday by midnight, but I handed it in on Wednesday just because I had already done it, I watched the lecture, whatever. I have a little bit of reading and a couple of discussion post responses that I’ll do, but like those are bullshit. And the reflective journal is due on Sunday, but that’s it’s like an assigned like we have an actual “Here’s what you’re going to write on for your reflective journal.”

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I don’t feel as much pressure with that because it’s just like blah.

THERAPIST: Right. No, no, what I was wondering about was whether you handed it in after we talked yesterday or you handed it in before.

CLIENT: No. I handed it in before -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[00:14:56]

CLIENT: and I already forgot what the experiment was. (chuckles) Like (inaudible at 00:15:00). But it’s fine because I’m sure my TA (inaudible at 00:15:05) we can get into a discussion about how I talked about it with you in therapy and what happened.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And then she’ll probably come to the same conclusion, like “Well, that sounds like that was the experiment.” Like it’s already been tested or whatever. (pause) Yeah, I’m going to redo it. Why, do you think I should? Is that what you’re saying?

THERAPIST: (chuckles)

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: I’m laughing because -

CLIENT: Why would you be telling me to redo my assignment? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Well, also because sort of, moreover let’s just be clear that I’m telling you to do a good enough job (voices overlapping).

[00:15:56]

CLIENT: (laughter) Right, exactly, right (inaudible at 00:15:58).

THERAPIST: (laughter) Right.

CLIENT: Even though obviously it’s not.

THERAPIST: Right. What I was wondering about is whether you felt I helped you. I mean, the fantasy I had was that you felt maybe like I helped you as we talked about it yesterday. Although I know we also talked about my making you feel worse about that.

CLIENT: No, I feel that you did help me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But more on the level of concluding that I just kind of make my way through the course, do what I can, and use this as like some more information I can use on my own and in therapy.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: You know, as opposed to I mean, while it did help me a little bit in terms of thinking about, you know, the experiment that they’re asking me to create in a different way than I think I was making it very black and white.

[00:17:01]

Like I need to like, okay, I’m going to test this, whatever. And like in terms of my goal that I listed and whatever, that it’s not that easy to do that. But I wouldn’t know how to recreate on paper what we -

THERAPIST: What we talked about.

CLIENT: Yeah.

[00:18:43]

THERAPIST: (long pause) I guess (pause) You know, I wonder if (pause) So it sounds as though in a kind of limited and qualified way, what we talked about yesterday was actually helpful. And I wonder if that is a little bit why you’re coming today and reminding me how everything still completely sucks, and it’s awful, and you’re horrible and nothing is any better, definitely, absolutely.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm.

THERAPIST: And then I think well, you know, you’re saying all these shitty things happened. The date which went shitty, the thing with the dish and your roommate.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm.

[00:19:51]

THERAPIST: The thought you had about what if you’re pregnant.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm.

THERAPIST: But then I thought each one of those is kind of the same, actually.

CLIENT: How so?

THERAPIST: Well, on the face of it, the date wasn’t horrible. I mean, it was awkward that he didn’t pick up the check and a little weird.

CLIENT: Well, yeah, on the face of it, it wasn’t.

THERAPIST: But, you know, you said you didn’t have a bad time. You were fairly comfortable. It was nice that you kind of knew each other before. The only thing that was awkward was that he kept asking you about stuff which presumably he has no idea about. So like it sucked for you, but it wasn’t a reflection of like things going badly between you really.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And, you know, he wouldn’t give you a ride home [because he lived in] Arlington, he checked in about how you were.

CLIENT: Yeah.

[00:20:49]

THERAPIST: I mean, on the face of it, I guess it didn’t go horrible, and part of it is that it didn’t go so horribly that it was clearly an incredibly stupid idea to go out with him in the first place.

CLIENT: Right. That’s true.

THERAPIST: Whatever else happens. But clearly that’s not how it felt. And I guess that’s why it seems to me that maybe it’s kind of the same where I wonder if in part I don’t know. It doesn’t feel as much to me like that [as you were telling me this morning here], but maybe there’s a bit of it that’s like a reaction to it having gone okay.

CLIENT: Maybe.

[00:21:46]

THERAPIST: I’m not saying I know why.

CLIENT: But I still but why did I feel so sad after? And so like lukewarm.

THERAPIST: Sad about being alone?

CLIENT: I don’t know, just like -

THERAPIST: Just sad.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And lukewarm?

CLIENT: About him.

THERAPIST: Right. I think those are important, but I think it’s quite different actually from feeling like the thing was a catastrophe and he’s a complete idiot and loser and so are you. (pause) I don’t know why you felt so sad and why you felt lukewarm about him. I guess I’m just distinguishing those things from the sort of catastrophic awfulness that I think you also felt about it.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm. Like -

THERAPIST: Go ahead [and say that].

CLIENT: Well, I felt the catastrophic awfulness because of how I felt towards him and how I felt afterward. That’s why it turned into “Oh, this is awful.”

THERAPIST: So you mean completely awful because you felt lukewarm about him?

CLIENT: Yeah, because after I left, I was like, I don’t want to be dating people that I leave seeing where I’m like “eh.” Like I don’t want to do that.

[00:23:48]

And I don’t want to make a mistake. And then it makes me sad, and it makes me sad and then I get [mad] that I’m even in this situation. (pause) And like how am I going to ever find anybody if everybody that I go out with, I like don’t feel anything special towards and don’t ever want to see them again, really. Or then decide hey, I’ll go on a second date with you and then I never hear from them again. (pause)

[00:24:44]

THERAPIST: I don’t know why you felt lukewarm about him. I mean, I don’t know if it’s there were clearly a couple of things that bothered you during the date, but I don’t know if it’s because of that or for some other reason. You know what I mean? Like I don’t know if you were attracted to him. I don’t know if he was like funny or fun, or if like it felt like there were moments where you had chemistry, or if the whole thing just felt kind of blah. I don’t know.

CLIENT: I don’t know. Well, I think that like being only medium attracted to him is obviously like part of it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But that’s like all of these guys that I’m going out with, because I’ve been told by everybody around me that I need to lower my standards because the hot guys are the ones that are treating me like shit all the time.

[00:25:46]

So I have. (pause) But that leaves me going out with people where I’m automatically going into it like not really that attracted to them.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because everybody is like well, you could grow to be attracted to people and you could learn their personalities and then they’re attracted to them or whatever. So I’m trying to look past that, but that obviously [falls apart] and then (pause) I don’t know. (pause) And like I can’t even remember like when I was getting to know Bayu [ph] and what was about him that led me to talk to him or want to keep talking to him or to see him. The same for Sergio . I don’t even was it only because they were hot?

[00:26:48]

Like is that it? Like is that it and then this is my problem and my downfall? (long pause) (sighing) (long pause)

[00:29:03]

THERAPIST: I see. So you’re already pre-disappointed before you actually go out on the date even.

CLIENT: (long pause) So Stephanie saying “Dust yourself off and go on more dates,” it’s like -

THERAPIST: Yeah, you must be pretty psyched.

CLIENT: Yeah, really. (long pause)

[00:30:03]

THERAPIST: I get the impression you’re pretty sure this is never going to work.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm. (pause) Not this way. (pause) I’m just not either in the right place or time or the right type of person to be able to treat this like a job and put in all this time and search for guys on the fucking Internet. Go out with people just for the sake of doing it. Like I’m just not it’s not working for me.

THERAPIST: Mmm-hmm.

CLIENT: (pause) And I just don’t want to feel like this every time.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s like, do I choose to do what Stephanie suggests and just shrug it off and do more with this background of it? Of coming home and crying and being upset every single time almost?

[00:31:04]

Or, you know, do I not and do I say that my own (pause) feelings matter more than (sighing) going on dates for the sake I don’t know. But then it’s like well, then maybe I how will I find somebody? (pause) I’m just like I don’t know, maybe you should up your Celexa prescription, dosage or whatever. And it’s like cool, so I’ll just keep upping the Celexa? That’s what we’re going with? (pause)

[00:32:01]

THERAPIST: Of course, that makes you feel worse. (long pause) I guess this is part of what you’re so isolated with, is like how disappointed you are and how pessimistic. (pause)

[00:32:57]

Stephanie or your mom tell you what you should be doing, or they tell you to get up and shake it off or, you know, get more help or whatever. I imagine to some extent there would be too, not quite in the same way, but at least at times with sort of I think you probably see me as like having ideas about how you could be different or how you should be different, and that makes you feel like obviously you’re doing something wrong, but you’re on your own with how hopeless you are. (pause) We should stop for now.

[00:34:02]

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I’ll see you on Monday.

CLIENT: Mmm-hmm.

THERAPIST: Have a good week.

CLIENT: Thanks, you too.

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