TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi! Come on in!

(pause 00:00:11 to 00: 02:45)

CLIENT: Trying to think... think of what to say. (chuckles) (pause) Yesterday was, I guess like, a weird thing... not weird. It was like, a little unusual. As soon as I got to school like, a couple of my classmates were like, upset, were crying and so (chuckles). We spent like half the class time like, talking with one of them (chuckles).

THERAPIST: What were they crying for then?

CLIENT: Oh, just this one girl was just... One of our teachers is kind of... I guess he can come across as abrasive or aggressive. He cares a lot, he’s, like, he’s coming, this concern comes from a good place, but he pushes people like, to think harder, to be tougher. I guess that kind of rubs some people the wrong way. So she was kind of... she’s been very sensitive all semester long, and I’ve seen her kind of... there is a cloud over her and like... And yesterday she was just crying, so (chuckles)... [00:04:16]

(pause) It was interesting, since my classmates are really, really tough (chuckles), others are, I guess, not so much. I wonder where I am like, I think I am like in the middle. (chuckles) I don’t know. (pause) In talking with, other people are talking, this one guy was talking about his father and... (chuckles) and then his own kind of, relationship woes and you know... Then I was just, I guess, thinking about... I also mentioned here like... I was taking a walk with Nelson (ph) and like, he’s being all sweet and everything, but I felt kind of trapped. Then later I felt lost and... (chuckles). Anyway. [00:05:34]

Yeah... I was just trying to understand why I was feeling, you know, trapped. He was saying thing like, “Oh, let’s take a cooking class together. Let’s do this, let’s do that.” And I just was like, “No, no, no!” Which is weird, because like, I’m like, hey, I thought I was all about wanting affection, and attention, and love. Now that I’m getting it, why do I, why am I pushing it away, you know? So, I didn’t really understand where that was coming from, and I guess I suddenly felt, maybe I feel trapped and you know like, maybe I just want to... like go home and just like, sit with my computer, or just read a book, but be alone and take a walk by myself. I don’t know. [00:06:31]

I feel like... I need that time every like, 24 hours like, I need certain hours just to myself, when I’m completely alone. (chuckles). Yeah. I think that makes me feel in control and like, I have to figure things out. I guess figuring things out makes me feel... yeah, in control. And it makes me like... then seek out company. Like... yeah. (pause) Like, Saturday I had that like, well, not like, I mean, I was with people all along, all the time, but being with different people. [00:07:28]

But I did have like, a half an hour for running. (chuckles) And then, you know, recognizing (inaudible) small room in the next room. So, yeah. (pause) (chuckles) I wonder, is it like, I need to be alone and feel scared and insecure? So that I can be with someone? Is that what that is? Is that what it is? (chuckles) Is that what means, with people in their own space? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: That they want to feel alone and insecure?

CLIENT: (chuckles) Yes.

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: No?

THERAPIST: I don’t know. It can happen, but I don’t think that’s why people want to be alone (client affirms), the main reason.

CLIENT: What is it, then? Why do they want to be alone?

THERAPIST: They like their own company, they want their own company. [00:08:25]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) It could be, it could go in the other direction. I mean, they might come up, come out of it with positive things, at the end of that. Or they could also sometimes come out with negative things, such as... I’m scared! I need some comfort! You know? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I’m not saying it’s not possible, but I don’t think that’s the motivation, so that they feel scared and then come out of it. (client affirms) What do you think you feel scared of?

CLIENT: Oh, when?

THERAPIST: Like, when you feel, when you’re alone and then you start to feel scared?

CLIENT: Now it’s mostly, now it’s mostly anxieties about writing and my mother and just general worries. Like scared of the future and all those things, not, I don’t know... [00:09:29]

(pause) I guess on Sunday I was feeling... a few different things. Like, I was feeling guilty, because I haven’t been in touch with Chris (ph) and like... You know... And... I haven’t my “alone time,” so I felt a little too saturated with Nelson. (chuckles) You know, I mean... That’s what I feel like... you know... like, saturated, you know? And I don’t want to be saturated with someone else. [00:10:21]

(pause) Even if it’s good, you know, that’s what it is like... even if it’s Chris, who I consider to be like, a superior kind of substance you could be saturated with, even when it’s him like, I feel... okay, enough! I need... air to breathe, you know? Like... I need my own space. (chuckles) Yeah, on Sunday I was feeling...

(pause) And um... (sighs) Then we went to Nelson’s parents place. They were showing me, you know their kids, showing us photos of this trip and (inaudible). I felt so lost like, you know like... I had no kind of... like coordinates that I could... points that I could relate to, I guess. (pause) And then, (inaudible) I was like, Where am I? What am I doing? You know, I’m completely like... I have no idea where I am and... try to... It’s weird how that happens. I guess that people feel that way. It’s not unusual. (chuckles) [00:12:20]

THERAPIST: I’m having a hard time understanding you (inaudible), I think in part, because I’m having a hard time hearing you.

CLIENT: Oh. I think... Is it the fan, or...?

THERAPIST: You, I can turn this off. Maybe that will help.

CLIENT: I think that makes a difference. (therapist affirms) I usually, I just have like, a small voice and sometimes it gets really small. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: It does, sometimes get really small. (client affirms) (pause) What do you think makes it get small?

CLIENT: I guess when I don’t really know what I’m... talking about. (chuckles) So... But I’ll try, I’ll try! I’ll try to be, I’ll try to project, I’ll try to... feel powerful, I don’t know. (chuckles) Or just humor myself. If it actually, the power doesn’t come like, if I like, just take it lightly. (pause)

I mean, I guess I’m trying to understand like, this new... set of friends or, you know like, this new, this whole new kind of... way of... thinking or actually being, I guess, that I hadn’t really experienced like this before. [00:14:04]

You know like, with Chris’s circle, I would feel lost mostly, in an intellectual way. You know, they were all intellectuals and academics mostly. But some of Nelson’s friends are kind of, you know, adventure seekers and like, you know, they go on long hikes or you know, they go skiing, or they want to move to [] and... you know, just live there. (chuckles) So... that whole thing is, you know, very new to me and... I guess I feel lost in trying to relate to them, and trying to understand what exactly it is that they want and... They keep talking about this road trip like, cross-country road trip. I keep telling them, “I don’t think I can come!” I’m like, terrified of American highways and, you know like, it’s a big risk, whatever; it really depresses me, and I’ll be, you know, depressed for months or years. (chuckles) [00:15:12]

THERAPIST: It depresses you in what way?

CLIENT: I don’t know. I think I just have like, associations from my first few years in the U.S. Like, you know, my dad and... yeah. I don’t want to experience that. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: How are road trips connected to that?

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: But I just... get depressed. Even like, on a bus to Ohio, I, you know like, the four hours of... road is not... I don’t like it. (therapist responds) (sighs) I try to read or sleep, but, yeah. So... It just reminds me of like, being in, you know like, back in Virginia and like... certain... nights of... a lot of nights, I guess, when I was I guess... going to visit my first boyfriend, or coming home from like... I had an internship in Tennessee, so I would drive through Tennessee and Virginia quite often, you know. And then like, the road signs that advertise whatever it is like, topless bars or whatever and like, my association with like, my dad seeking all these places. I just feel like, vulnerable and miserable about those, that whole, those years. Because I was, you know, completely not in control, you know. Yeah. (chuckles) [00:17:05]

(pause) It’s like, like... I don’t think I’ll join them (chuckles), but they keep telling me, “But it’s all about the people you go with. We’ll have fun!” And all that. I’m just like, “I know! I’m sure I’ll have fun, but I still don’t...” It will still take a week or more and I don’t think I can... you know. (chuckles)

(pause) I mean, I’d love to build new associations, happy associations, but you know like, how do you do that? (chuckles) I don’t think you can plan for them, you know? They just have to happen if, you know, that means that... Again, think they’re not in your control, so... [00:18:17]

(pause) What is your experience of American highways?

THERAPIST: I don’t have a particular association.

CLIENT: What do you think of, when you’re driving? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Depends on where in the country.

CLIENT: I don’t know. Just... Pittsburgh? (chuckles) I don’t know!

THERAPIST: Strip malls.

CLIENT: Yeah. That doesn’t depress you?

THERAPIST: Do you think that American highways depress most people? (client affirms) I see. There is...

CLIENT: Shouldn’t they?

THERAPIST: What about them?

CLIENT: Because they’re monotonous and there is like, everything looks the same and, you know... [00:19:14]

THERAPIST: Hmm. No matter where you are in the country? You’re driving through the desert, it looks like Pittsburgh?

CLIENT: (chuckles) Okay, so I did, I have had some not-so-bad driving experiences like, when I was in Texas for like, a few days with my mom. Yeah, that was fun. But I was in control, you know. Like, I was, we drove it in the same amount (ph) like, from... even south of Albuquerque all the way to Houston, you know. We drove that distance and... that was fun, you know. Fun, as in, I don’t know like... as fun as things can be when my mom would like... Not much conversation but, you know... still okay. (chuckles) And it was pretty, too. The landscape kept changing. Yeah. [00:20:24]

(pause) I could do that like, if these guys go to Albuquerque, I could drive with them to... (chuckles) I don’t know. Whatever, it’s just, but I could do that. I don’t want to do like... cross-country. I have no idea what the highways are going to look like and... (sighs) and what other signs for topless bars or like, you know... or you know like, I see my dad (chuckles) as in, you know, not like, (inaudible) but metaphorically, you know? I feel like a little girl and you know, I feel cheated, and I feel out of control, or... Not out of control, but you know like... powerless and...

(pause 00:21:18 to 00:22:01)

I mean, that’s why I’m like, I feel like experiencing things that I have no associations with, that’s... going to feel nice. (chuckles) Or nicer than trying to change things that I used to think are bad or, you know, make me sad.

(pause 00:22:21 to 00:24:39)

I don’t know. I guess, I wonder if there is like, a pattern of... things that happened that make me like, feel trapped or feel like, feel powerless. I don’t know. I guess I don’t understand that right now. Do you think it’s happening less often now, or like...? I’m just trying to figure that out. (chuckles) It’s like, if I stop engaging and I feel kind of depressed, you know... that’s like, that’s the end of it (chuckles), you know? I don’t know. But if I can... stop myself from feeling trapped, then I can, you know, actually engage and kind of counter, whatever it is that makes me depressed, you know.

(pause 00:25:43 to 00:26:11]

Do you think there are like, triggers that... I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe I should maybe persist with this like, thought, but I just, I don’t know... how I can better understand like, what happens.

THERAPIST: Triggers...

CLIENT: That... my feeling kind of trapped and... powerless. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Well, let’s talk about that. What do you think?

CLIENT: (pause) I don’t know. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: It sounds like you felt trapped on Sunday, with Nelson.

CLIENT: Yeah. I’m trying to understand what happened with him. I don’t know. But all I can figure out is that I didn’t get my “alone time,” so... but then, what does that mean, you know? What does “alone time” do to me, you know? I’m like, okay, it can one of two things. One is to fill me with like, strength and like... you know, I can... I feel refreshed, and I feel like I know who I am, and... or it can make me feel insecure and like... I’m needing comfort, I’m needing safety or companionship, stimulation. So... [00:27:40]

I don’t know what that means to like... why that has to be, to me, feeling... trapped or you know like, not having the “alone time,” why that makes me feel trapped.

(pause 00:28:09 to 00:28:30)

Because I think, I’m sure I felt that way with Chris, too. Maybe I wouldn’t have been able to articulate it like this, you know? Maybe that’s what I felt like in Colorado, you know? I didn’t want to be with him at that time, I didn’t feel stimulated enough, or I wanted another kind of stimulation or like, I was bored, you know. What does boredom mean, you know? Like, I’m sure it’s like a profound psychological (chuckles) condition. I don’t know; is it? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I think boredom can mean a lot of different things.

CLIENT: Yeah? Like what?

THERAPIST: I don’t know; what are your thoughts?

CLIENT: I don’t know. Like, lack of stimulation?

THERAPIST: You said “a profound psychological condition.”

CLIENT: (chuckles) No, I just wondered if like, as a student, you studied (chuckles) that.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like I’m too quiet today? [00:29:33]

CLIENT: No. I’m just kind of, I feel like I’m... tossing darts, maybe. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Because you’re asking a lot of questions today, and I’m wondering if you’re feeling more of a need to engage with me?

CLIENT: Sure, I love engagement! (chuckles) (pause)

THERAPIST: Are you feeling a little lost today?

CLIENT: Umm... I don’t know. (pause) I’m trying to explore, but I don’t know what exactly I’m exploring. (therapist affirms) (pause) Yeah. I guess I feel uncertain about what I’m talking (chuckles) about, so...

(pause 00:30:37 to 00:32:45)

I don’t know. I guess I want to be able to better understand myself, and also understand that I might not be able to understand everything, but... At least moments when I’m down (or really, really down), you know, that would be, it would be nice to kind of get a handle on those moments, you know, so that I could avoid them. Or if I can’t avoid them, then at least like, shorten them, so that I’m not, you know, making other people miserable or uncomfortable, you know. So...

(pause 00:33:22 to 00:34:24)

It could also be true that, you know, when I’m like, worried about something, everything seems bad. So no matter who I’m with, I’m not going to be able to enjoy their company or be... you know like, I do make (ph) myself. (therapist responds) So like, that was most of my relationship with Chris. I was, you know, constantly like... worried about writing or you know, not writing, that, you know, the few times we took, you know, vacations or whatever, I was just like... not a fun person to be with myself, and I expected him to be, to provide the fun, the entertainment. He’s not really that way, anyway. So... (chuckles)

(pause 00:35:20 to 00:35:40)

(chuckles) I wonder if like, Nelson is more intuitive that way? I don’t know, I just wonder...

THERAPIST: Intuitive in terms of...?

CLIENT: If you want him to be to articulate this, or you know, if he... You know, I’m saying that... maybe he can’t, you know. I’m not saying that, “Oh, he’s not smart enough to articulate that,” but you know like, I was not being very fun, you know. He was like, on... (chuckles) so weird like, but it was like, I wanted to take a walk. But then... so he joined me. But then like, as soon as we left his apartment, he was like, on the phone with his friend like, I don’t know, “What are you doing? Come join us.” I was like, he just knows that I’m, you know... not very chatty or, you know, fun right now, so, he’s already looking for... a back-up or like, somebody else to make, to give him the kind of stimulation he’s seeking, you know? [00:36:45]

We didn’t walk for very long. He, because then we went over to his friend’s place, which he and like... you know. (chuckles) So, I just wonder if he... he did that on purpose, you know. Or as in, like, he knew... that he could just feel that, you know, I wasn’t going to be very... entertaining. I think he has that (chuckles) intuition, so... I’m just like, realizing, you know. Because I don’t think Chris would, you know. He’s just not that sort at all, you know like, picking up the phone and calling people. (chuckles) You know.

(pause 00:37:29 to 00:38:02)

(sighs) But I don’t think there is anything wrong with either approach. Like, if you’re sad and like... it’s okay if you don’t want to prolong that sadness, and you just jump into other things, you know. But it’s also okay if you are sad, and you don’t really know how to change that moment. You stay in it and you stay in it; maybe you find your way out, you know, by thinking things through, or you’re just internally finding... an impulse or a stimulus inside you. You know, that’s okay, too. It doesn’t always have to come from outside, you know. I don’t think it means that one kind of person or one kind of approach is stronger than the other or more reliable (ph). [00:39:00]

(pause) I guess I am just like, afraid to be like that kind of, the down like, the dead and downer in their group, I guess, in Nelson’s group. But, I mean, I don’t, they don’t think of me as that. I’m just... kind of wondering if, you know, that could be... how I see myself in the group. (chuckles) But, I think that’s... I want to be okay with that, you know. (chuckles) I guess. I just... Maybe that means I dig deeper, you know. Like, I stay deeper and, of course, that has its problems, you know. Makes me kind of... sad and not entertaining all the time, but... you know, that’s okay, you know? I guess I can find my way back to the surface, to the light surface, where they are. I just take a bit longer, you know? Like... [00:40:15]

(pause) I guess like, in even like, my associations with American highways, see how it gets depressing and I’m scared of it, but maybe if I am able to get over my fear of them, that I’ve been avoiding them, that every, you know, at all costs, or whatever. You know, once I get over that, maybe... still okay to have that kind of association or a story, you know... but, you know, I move forward or you know, at least I try to move forward and I... I can definitely appreciate people that having different associations, you know? I mean, so, yeah. So, life and other people make you kind of experience sadness in a way that not everyone else does. What do you do with that, you know? Like... (therapist responds) If you like, maybe I shouldn’t beat myself over that. I don’t know. (sighs) [00:41:35]

THERAPIST: You have a lot of things to be sad about. (client chuckles) In terms of what happened to you. (client affirms) But you have so much potential for the future.

CLIENT: Yeah? (therapist affirms) And when you say that, do you mean like, happy... or like... jumping off the couch (chuckles)...

THERAPIST: Maybe moments of that, but... I think, to have a really productive, creative, fulfilling life.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Is time over?

THERAPIST: Sorry?

CLIENT: Are we done or...?

THERAPIST: We really just have a minute left. What made you think of the time at this moment? Do you know? [00:42:32]

CLIENT: No, it was like... your statement was kind of like... (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I wasn’t actually aware of the time. I was making a statement. I wasn’t aware of it being the end, but it almost is the end, actually, for today. (client affirms) Are you, do you feel that way? Do you feel like you have the potential for a, you know, fulfilling, creative life?

CLIENT: I want to. I want to believe that very, very strongly. I think I’m getting there. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: So you are away next week, is that correct? (client affirms) So then I will see you in a week and a half. It’s the 17th. Is that...? No, next Monday is the 17th. So the 24th?

CLIENT: Oh, you’re not here next Monday?

THERAPIST: I thought you were away next week?

CLIENT: Yeah, all of next week, yeah.

THERAPIST: Right. And then, so then not next week, but the following Monday.

CLIENT: Yeah, on Monday.

THERAPIST: So next week is the 17th and the 19th, and you won’t be here, right? (client affirms) But then the 24th... (client affirms) I’m not going anywhere.

CLIENT: Oh, okay.

THERAPIST: I’ll be at work.

CLIENT: Not yet. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Sorry?

CLIENT: Not yet! [00:43:32]

THERAPIST: Not yet! I will be going away for some period of time. But I do think, I think that I told you that I’m due like, the third week in June, like the end of it. But I think even by like, midto late July I’ll be in a day or so here, you know, for a couple of hours. I’m happy just to see you then. (client affirms) Okay? Okay. Very good, so I’ll see you in a week and a half.

CLIENT: Okay! See you, have a good, I don’t know, spring break, if you can call it that. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Take care.

CLIENT: You, too. Bye.

END TRANSCRIPT