TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in. Have a seat.

Speaking begins at [00:04:13]

CLIENT: I’m trying to be calm I guess.

THERAPIST: Trying?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:04:29)?

CLIENT: Well yes, it’s (inaudible at 00:04:35) out of control, so I just want things to (inaudible at 00:04:43). I don’t know. (pause)

THERAPIST: Do you not feel like I can help you feel calm? [00:06:09]

CLIENT: Oh no, I’m just kind of blank. [Laughing] And I’m trying to think of what to say. [Laughing] I don’t know what to bring up. (pause) I guess I had like a therapy session with my friend last night so [Laughing].

THERAPIST: I’m not sure what you mean.

CLIENT: Oh no, I just talked things with him. So I felt quite relieved afterwards. [Laughing] [00:07:01]

So now I [Laughing]…

THERAPIST: Talking to your friend felt like talking to me?

CLIENT: No, it was just it’s different because like we were laughing and then we were I was really like down I was a bit down yesterday and I just wanted to get home from class and work and be productive and stuff. But I didn’t do any work and there was (inaudible at 00:07:39) after school, so I learned that.

And then my gay friend [Laughing], he needed some help so, I was helping him. And he was like and so I was like okay, now that I’m helping him, he still would want to (inaudible at 00:07:55).

He was like oh no, I’ll help you, what’s up. And I’m like I don’t want to talk to you, you’re not really a good listener. He was like no, I am; talk to me. [00:08:05] [Laughing]

So I was talking to him just about other things (inaudible at 00:08:10) about how confused (inaudible at 00:08:13). [Laughing]

He was saying ridiculous things so it made me laugh and then I (inaudible at 00:08:23). [Laughing] It’s like, you know, I guess I compare myself to other people; other people as in my age or just slightly older, like two years older, their lives seem so sad, you know.

I have a baby and make another friend have a baby and it was like, you know, where’s my life going? It’s not it’s all over the place. I wind up in this little apartment and I don’t like it; how dirty it is. I want to clean it and take ownership of it and make it nice, but I don’t want to invest in that my time in doing that. [00:09:12]

And I miss the apartment I shared with Chris (sp) and, you know, that seemed like such a life, you know, saving on rent. And you know it’s not just like that, it was the time we shared together cooking and eating together, I was missing that.

You know but it’s also true that like people who I compare myself to. I mean, I just (inaudible at 00:09:46) a rosy picture of their lives too.

Like there was this friend who just had a baby. I don’t think she and her husband were that settled. They’re quite, you know, radical as well, and she teaches filmmaking and she travels a lot, so I don’t know how settled she is. I think they have a nice place. I visited them last week. [00:10:16] (pause)

And this other woman who I keep thinking about, and I don’t really like her. [Laughing] But I was hanging out with her and another friend, and she has a baby and her husband is in Nepal for a few for a week or so and she was very lonely and she was saying that she was like yes, I lost my baby twice in the mall today.

We were at the mall and I was just kind of picturing her by herself kind of, you know, pushing her stroller, you know, during the day in the mall and, you know, how lonely she must have felt and what she does and what people do to kind of make themselves feel better. You know, how they deal with just the same emotions that I deal with, we all deal with the same stuff. [00:11:22]

So (pause)…

THERAPIST: People having babies is on your mind and no one having one too.

CLIENT: [Laughing], yes you are.

THERAPIST: Do you wonder about that?

CLIENT: A bit. I mean I’m always very like I used to be very good with kids and like yes, I’m very motherly. [Laughing] But I just don’t have the choice to have one. I don’t know if I’ll ever have one. [00:12:00]

THERAPIST: Why do you say that?

CLIENT: Oh, I don’t know. [Laughing] Because I can’t even seem to like to get married so [Laughing].

THERAPIST: But I wonder if you wonder what my life is or what I think about a baby or…

CLIENT: [Laughing], no. No, I was like comparing myself to friends who have babies. I know it’s very hard work. So I’m not like oh baby, nice to hold or whatever. I know it’s not like that. (pause)

I mean it would totally feel like a burden I know. [Laughing] [00:13:23]

(pause) I need to stop feeling burdened by stuff, you know. I still have not fixed that. I think we talked about that like a year and a half ago; maybe even two years ago, where I’m still not, you know, able to let go of that mindset thinking in terms of that it’s not that I don’t want to don’t feel like doing seems like such a burden to me. Like I feel trapped or I feel something. [Laughing] [00:14:02]

So I am kind of over school now. It’s like I’m not it’s not that much of I find the effort not to seem like a burden in the middle of the trap, but because, you know, it’s new, it’s refreshing in the sense that every week you learn something new. But that’s not true anymore. [Laughing] I stopped learning new things a while back.

So see I’m same, same, same but it’s kind of recreational at this point; mildly recreational. And I have the assistantship so I’m continuing. And I keep talking to everyone and like I’m going to quit; I’m going to quit and people go no, you just have two more classes to go. See if you can transfer credits or something. [00:15:01]

So (pause) yes, one more year is not that much work. So I’ll put myself on auto-pilot again. [Laughing]

I don’t know what kind of measure to use; what kind of question like framework to have in terms of what I should do like do stuff that makes me feel empowered or you know, I don’t or learn stuff learning stuff doesn’t necessarily make me feel empowered. It makes me like feel humble and, you know, I don’t know enough. So it’s like it’s building it’s not as much empowering me I guess. [00:16:05]

I don’t know. I don’t even know what I’m saying. I’m confused. [Laughing] (pause)

I’m thinking more and more about having a job, you know, whether it should be full-time or part-time and (pause). And I’m confused about Chris (inaudible at 00:16:58). So it’s like a lot of unsteadiness I feel like.

So I guess I’m trying to anchor myself and the boat isn’t anchored and I just want it to be as strong as I can make it. I don’t know how to do that. The only way I can think of is spending as much time working on it as I can, thinking about it and just making it as big and strong of an anchor, you know. [Laughing]

Like I like ignore all the other things like school and jobs/need for a job and my mom and the boyfriends so (pause).

Do you feel like I have a lot of distractions in my life or like I tend to get distracted a lot? [00:18:35]

THERAPIST: I don’t know. Do you feel very focused?

CLIENT: What does that look like? [Laughing] Like (inaudible at 00:18:49)?

THERAPIST: I don’t know. I’m not sure what you mean.

CLIENT: I’m not feeling very focused. I might be somewhat determined and obsessed, but that’s not the same as focused.

THERAPIST: What did you have in mind when you said distractions?

CLIENT: No, I just wondered like I was imagining talking, saying all this to my mom. I don’t know what she would say. A slightly different version of my mom where you would say, no need to distract yourself. All these are distractions; boys. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: So you were wondering if would respond the way your mother would?

CLIENT: Yes. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: Why would I respond in a similar way?

CLIENT: No, I was just imagining talking to like an elder and like you know, seeking wisdom. [00:20:15]

THERAPIST: So a wiser person would say that you are seeking distractions?

CLIENT: [Laughing] I was just wondering, am I. (pause)

THERAPIST: You seem kind of disengaged today. [00:23:08]

CLIENT: [Laughing] Yes, I don’t really know what realms to bring up or, you know. (pause)

If I don’t have something to focus on I don’t really think I’m really focused [Laughing] or engage in, again, there’s nothing to engage in probably. [Laughing] [00:24:01]

THERAPIST: Your goals; your aspirations?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Those are things to engage with. I’m trying to do X, so I’m going to engage with how I get there.

CLIENT: Huh?

THERAPIST: It’s like I want to X, so how do I get there?

CLIENT: Yes. But I’m the one doing it. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: Yes. And I think that you’re feeling that more generally. Should I get a job; should I not get a job? Should I deal with (inaudible at 00:24:47)? You’re not really sure how to even think about what you want and then, you know, getting it’s a little bit too specific, but having a plan to get there. [00:25:01]

But if you’re not feeling very anchored or focused, because you’re not feeling compelled or driven to something.

CLIENT: Yes, I guess.

THERAPIST: Because you’ve certainly come in here at times and been like I want to talk about this. I’ve been thinking about it and I really want to talk about it. And you haven’t been like that lately. You’ve seemed kind of distracted and kind of keeping to yourself.

CLIENT: Yes (pause). Well I guess I was worried about stuff money and something. I don’t know. (pause)

How do you get out of this? I mean I’m writing but it’s not like chugging along with great speed or anything. (pause) I don’t know if I work this weekend or not. [Laughing] [00:26:34]

I’m taking my laptop and writing at a friend’s place. (pause) I’m trying to feel anchored. Like I’m telling myself my book is my anchor. [Laughing] I don’t know what else to being anchored right now.

I mean I have gotten the program that still make sure that I work. And I still have a few days to decide whether to take it or to accept it or not. I’m like, do I even need to think about it? Of course I want to do it, but then it was like $4000.

So like and I don’t have any job in the summer so I don’t know if I should go ahead and, you know, get a job. (pause)

I don’t know, I guess I was able I’m able to focus. I was able to focus earlier much more, I guess even just a few weeks ago right, when did I seem more engaged a few weeks ago? [00:28:10]

THERAPIST: I don’t know. I don’t know how long it’s been, but definitely there’s some period of time.

CLIENT: Yes. So like over the break; the winter break I had a plan. (pause) I wanted to like go through the entire draft and put a draft together. And I kind of lost a few days here and there because of helping my friend and stuff. But I still kind of I had a plan and I stuck to it and I think I wrote pretty much every day for like several hours.

So like end of February that deadline ended. So then since then I’m kind of like a little less anchored I guess. It’s been a month. [Laughing] So, but not that I haven’t been writing since then; I have been. It’s just not been as kind of, well I have to do it; I have to do it, like that. [00:29:12]

So I’m not that driven because there isn’t a tight plan, like a right deadline. (pause) I wonder if I function better if I’m really busy, you know, and busy with stuff I want to do? I guess right now I’m like I have a lot of things that I’m confused about like travel (inaudible at 00:29:43). [Laughing]

Like this fitness thing, should I become an instructor or not? Can I do it or not? [Laughing] (pause) Is there a way to get engaged, like other than recognizing an anger and making a plan? [00:30:31]

THERAPIST: Sounds like a good way.

CLIENT: Huh?

THERAPIST: It sounds like a good way.

CLIENT: Yes. Are there like shortcuts like I don’t know, sex or something? [Laughing]

THERAPIST: I’m not following.

CLIENT: Well I don’t know. Like you feel it’s a way of feeling invigorated or something, like you get out of a funk, probably.

THERAPIST: I see. Are you feeling like you’re in a funk?

CLIENT: No, not a funk, but more like disengaged and like what do I grasp. What do I hold on to and not get swayed by other things. [00:31:11] (pause)

I mean I guess that’s why I don’t feel very motivated. I’m taking a very easy class and that’s like really [Laughing] I can’t like going to school drunk just so I can get through like those three hours. [Laughing] Not that I’ going to do it, but it’s like not painful. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: So what’s painful about it?

CLIENT: Well it’s just like the teacher is kind of old and she just kind of goes on [Laughing] and just like it’s a poetry class so like she can spend like an hour talking about one poem. And it’s just like you know, it’s just so plain, you know. It’s just not challenging enough for me at all. [Laughing] [00:32:16]

It’s like I really have to just like somehow get through it. I don’t know. [Laughing] (pause)

I guess that’s why I that’s another reason to look for a job. More of these classes and then just in order to finish the degree I don’t know, like I don’t know how I can just like feel like I’m wasting my time and my money. I could be making money instead of, you know, sitting in this class, you know. [00:33:05]

I could be reading a book I like. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: It’s really hard for you to make decisions.

CLIENT: Is it?

THERAPIST: It seems like it.

CLIENT: Why? [Laughing]

THERAPIST: Why is it hard?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: You want me to tell you it’s hard for you to make decisions because…

CLIENT: Yes. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: So I think this is one of the things that really stands in your way that sometimes when you’re feeling overwhelmed or distracted you become very passive and you sort of like oh, tell me why I do this. Tell me why I do this.

It’s hard for you to sort of move more to the center of your life. You kind of are sort of looking for somebody else to take over, but it’s hard to find someone [Coughing] who will take over your life.

CLIENT: Yes. How do I change that behavior? [00:34:05]

THERAPIST: Well certainly by observing it first. But I’ve seen you do this before, now that I think about it. It’s sort of like you sort of wait on the periphery of your life and hope something changes, like rather than taking charge and making decisions which is too bad because you know, you have a lot of good options and opportunities.

In part because not in large part because you created them and because you’re talented, and you do make things happen but then you step back. Like you apply to this program that you get into which is wonderful. There’s drawbacks, like it’s expensive, and you need to find out a way to make this happen if you want it.

And then you kind of pull back and like oh I don’t know; I don’t know. And then you kind of dilly dally or something. I don’t know.

CLIENT: [Laughing] Yes, I know. I’m looking for jobs. I mean that’s active, right. That’s taking control. And how something means panicking I’m going I don’t know, I don’t know. Someone tell me what to do. I guess that’s my nature. [00:35:15]

THERAPIST: Let’s talk about that because I do I think that you’re on to something. I think that that’s what part of what’s holding you back that you start to panic. What are you panicking about?

CLIENT: Why I make the wrong decisions. [Laughing] (pause) There are so many options I feel like I need someone to guide me. But then I guess I can, when I think about it, after you pointed it out, I can, you know, step back and make a plan and think things through.

Like yes, there’s so many options. There’s so many jobs on Craig’s List every day. How do I sort through them? How do I evaluate each one and make an informed decision, you know? [00:36:11]

[Laughing] I don’t know, it’s like random thoughts come to my head and like this makes sense. Like it can be in one line like my house, and then the Square, you know, two miles down the same road. And then down the same road you keep walking across the river like walk for like two more miles or two and a half more miles there’s a place where this novel class workshop is going to be.

And I’m applying for a job in the Square. So that’s what I mean like random thoughts, you know, like that’s fairly near and it makes sense, therefore I should take this job. [Laughing]

Yes, so yes just I guess I just can’t make the first. I’m afraid of being bored; afraid of, you know, a negative outcome. [00:37:12] (pause)

I mean what will happen? Like what’s the worst that can happen? Why am I so afraid?

THERAPIST: That’s a very good question. What is the worst that can happen?

CLIENT: I come home tired and stressed out every day most of the time. And I don’t want to work with my mom. And I feel stuck and trapped. I guess that’s the worst. I cannot quit.

THERAPIST: Are you thinking about getting a summer job so you’d have enough money to start the program in the fall? Is that how I don’t, you know, what is your thinking? [00:38:04]

CLIENT: I don’t know. So I applied to a bunch of jobs and only this one got back, so like a full-time job; permanent job.

THERAPIST: And when does the program start?

CLIENT: In May.

THERAPIST: And is that like something that you go to classes for or what like what are your obligations?

CLIENT: Yes, it’s like a Monday night thing I think.

THERAPIST: I see. So it’s not a daytime thing?

CLIENT: And then school starts in September, but I don’t get paid from like I don’t get paid in June, July, and August. (pause) And the next step is to ask my teachers if they know of some jobs. (pause)

Mostly I’m feeling guilty for not helping my mom with her rent this month. [00:39:02] (pause)

THERAPIST: I know paying your rent is a big deal and you have mentioned that you didn’t do it this month.

CLIENT: Yes so, but she’s like she’s paying from her savings and stuff and I feel bad about that. I don’t know what’s going on with her situation. I was like we all thought that this like internship was going to be paid but it’s not. [Laughing]

Also she’s working every day at a school but it’s like the student teaching and it’s not paid for.

THERAPIST: Did they tell her she was going to get paid and then didn’t pay her or what happened?

CLIENT: No, we didn’t know. I don’t know why we assumed she was going to get paid, but it seemed like a job, you know, so that’s why.

THERAPIST: I don’t think student teaching usually get paid.

CLIENT: Okay. [00:40:00]

THERAPIST: But she didn’t know to ask?

CLIENT: Yes. But it’s a long assignment, right. It’s like a whole semester. It’s not like, you know, two days or two days a week even, you know.

THERAPIST: I know when I was in grad school my internship for years was unpaid.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: I worked like 25 hours a week or something and was not paid. So it does when you’re in training the pay is considered the education you get from the training. It’s not true in all fields, but it’s not unusual.

CLIENT: Okay, yes.

THERAPIST: And student teaching, I don’t think student teachers typically get paid. But I guess it sounds like she wasn’t you know she didn’t know to ask.

CLIENT: Yes, I mean that’s okay. Maybe in May she’ll get a job. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: How did you decide not to pay it this month; her rent?

CLIENT: I just same way I decided to go to the (inaudible at 00:40:59). It wasn’t really a decision. It was like that [Laughing] ignored it. Oops, slipped my mind kind of, that’s what I think.

THERAPIST: I think you feel so much better about your life the more you can take ownership of your decisions. It sounds like you decided not to pay it, but you didn’t want to take ownership for it.

And there’s reasons why, because you allowed to feel guilty. It’s understandable, but I think you’re feeling like you’re kind of not in control of your life. Like you started by saying today, everything feels like I want to feel calm. Everything feels out of control.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Well it’s in your power to have that control, but I think it scares you to take that control. Say this is what I’m deciding to do.

CLIENT: Yes. That’s why I cannot decide so many things, you know. Like follow around like I don’t want to decide because I’ll be a no this is something I know I’ll get bored with them, you know. [00:42:27]

And now I know that I might also get bored with (inaudible at 00:42:34) [Laughing] or, you know, not bored I guess, feel guilty for giving up on it. So I guess that’s a different problem but it’s like similar in the sense that I cannot take ownership for my decision so, I’m not deciding. (pause)

THERAPIST: Well if it’s true that you will feel bored with either of them and you don’t want to be with a man that you feel bored with, you can go find somebody else. [00:43:04]

CLIENT: [Laughing] Keep looking.

THERAPIST: People do that.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: If that’s how you feel, that’s what you feel is going on. I almost wonder like there are so many sort of decisions or maybe even not decisions but events, in your at least in your mother’s life and maybe in your father’s life that were like catastrophic, that maybe it’s hard for you to imagine that, you know, maybe make a decision and maybe think, well this maybe not have been the best decision, but so what.

You know, so then you just have other decisions. Like nothing is catastrophic. It’s just okay.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Maybe that’s what scares you so much. Because it begs the question of what’s a wrong decision. I mean sometimes you make a decision and it doesn’t turn out the way you want. Is that wrong; I don’t wrong to me implies that you’re making it for the wrong reasons. [00:44:02]

You can’t always know the outcome of a decision. It may not go your way, but then is that the end of the world?

CLIENT: Well like for my mom is was, right. She married the wrong man and that was catastrophic.

THERAPIST: But that’s what I mean, that that has been your model, that decisions have been catastrophic for your mother certainly. And that then your assumption is that they will be catastrophic for you.

I mean it’s also a question if she made that decision, it sounds like that was an arranged marriage that was what had to happen, if I understand correctly. It wasn’t a decision on her part.

CLIENT: Yes. (pause)

THERAPIST: But that was exactly my point, that your experience; certainly your family and your family’s experience has been very much passed on to you as that, you know, events major sort of life decisions and events can be completely catastrophic and change the course of your life in a really, really negative, horrible way. [00:45:08]

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But there’s none of the decisions that we’ve talked about are irreversible or catastrophic.

CLIENT: Yes. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: It doesn’t feel that way?

CLIENT: Yes, I don’t know. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: Well maybe that’s something you need to think about more. You know Cecelia (sp) we do need to stop for today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So I will see you on Monday.

CLIENT: All right.

THERAPIST: Okay, thanks.

CLIENT: Oh, if I go to Ohio I don’t know if I’ll be able to make it on Monday. But can I e-mail you like later today about that?

THERAPIST: Why don’t you e-mail me later today, because I’m happy to find a time another time next week to meet if you don’t think that Monday will work.

CLIENT: Okay, next Monday like early in the morning. But I’ll (inaudible at 00:45:52).

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I’ll do it today.

THERAPIST: Let me know. I don’t have I don’t think I have anything later on Monday, so let me know so I can always find you a different day of the week.

CLIENT: Okay. [00:46:00]

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay, take care.

CLIENT: Bye.

THERAPIST: Bye-bye.

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