TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: I've been hearing, obviously, the stuff with Morgan and the event about that. But I'm hearing something here about Gordon?

FATHER: Yeah. I'd be happy to just quickly go through the list and then you can just go back to whatever you want. Morgan had that seizure episode. We changed his meds. Gordon has had mental health episodes and has been delusional, thinking people are going to admit him to a secret government agency. It's just been awful. He was packed. We had a family gathering and he's telling us all that he'll be going into witness protection.

THERAPIST: It really does sound like psychotic process.

FATHER: Yeah. My sister has called it delusional.

THERAPIST: So he'll [strive to go on meds] (ph?) on this one.

MOTHER: Oh, yeah. [00:01:00]

FATHER: Just to make a long story short, I was out with Brett car hunting, during which time Dora took it upon herself and bravely and heroically convinced him to admit himself for psychiatric . . .

THERAPIST: Which is voluntary?

FATHER: Right.

THERAPIST: Good job.

FATHER: It's a miracle.

THERAPIST: Where was it?

MOTHER: The State Hospital.

THERAPIST: They still do that level?

FATHER: Which is scary in and of itself and I don't know if that's right and your advice or whatever.

THERAPIST: No, no, no. I would have said a different place like that, but I didn't know that State Hospital was still functioning in that way.

MOTHER: In fact, they're Emergency Psychiatric Service.

THERAPIST: Building 43 or whatever it is?

MOTHER: Yeah, some Hall. I don't know. I think criminals are in East Hall, but the 302s are in – is it 302?

THERAPIST: 302 is involuntary. He's like a 201.

MOTHER: Oh, he's a 304?

THERAPIST: 304. [00:01:59]

MOTHER: 304. He 304'ed himself into the main building. I think it's building 28, but I was prepared to sign the commitment papers but he surprised me.

THERAPIST: So he had enough wherewithal to know?

MOTHER: Yeah, because I told him that I felt that finding out that his best friend could possibly be a murderer at least once over – and I still do believe that – just caused a psychotic break in his synapsis and he became delusional where he couldn't work, he couldn't eat, he couldn't sleep. He couldn't function because I guess the police investigation is taking so long and I wouldn't put it past this kid to murder somebody. In fact, I'd be shocked to find out that she's the only one he murdered. That's how convinced I am that Gordon is right. [00:03:01]

FATHER: He definitely fell into a delusional . . .

MOTHER: But he had the psychotic break when he had to realize that his best friend is just an out and out murderer. That's hard.

THERAPIST: But we just can't have more breaks.

MOTHER: No. No. No more breaks. He's got to be on medication.

THERAPIST: Because when a break happens, the key is to keep it from happening again.

MOTHER: Exactly.

THERAPIST: A lot of people have a single break. It's really holding off as long as possible any other follow up break, whatever stress can be reduced.

MOTHER: He makes his own stress.

FATHER: The biggest issue, too, is number one, it's a miracle because we've been begging him to do something; number two, he desperately needs meds who, again, I fall back on you as well as my sister, who has some background and says somebody like this needs something to maintain their straight outlook.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Unfortunately, it's really hard without meds.

FATHER: He's on meds now; Ativan. I understand . . .

MOTHER: He's on Ativan. He's not on any psychotropics. [00:04:05]

THERAPIST: No antipsychotic. Interesting.

FATHER: Well, we don't know yet. He saw the doctor today. I'm not sure.

MOTHER: Well he saw the doctor yesterday, but they had no visiting hours yesterday. We did drop off some things for him – jammy pants and sweatshirts and some money. Apparently they're allowed to have dollar bills.

THERAPIST: And he hasn't been saying, "I want to sign myself out."

MOTHER: No, not at all.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: So I think the Ativan is keeping him on an even keel and I'm hoping the psychiatrist will recognize that he's delusional without my having to tell the psychiatrist that he's had a psychotic break.

THERAPIST: Do they want to interview you all as well?

MOTHER: They haven't called.

FATHER: I don't know. I don't know if you have any contacts over there or any way to communicate, but I'm wondering if there's some way we could do an end run such that you could say you've been treating the family, if there's something you need to filter through to them through you. I don't know. [00:05:00]

THERAPIST: Right. We should probably, at some point, have a consent sign that I'm allowed to discuss your case with them, but if you tell me who it is I can at least leave a message saying I know the family. I have a consent to [speak.] (ph?)

MOTHER: Okay. I'll tell you all that tonight. He's got a female case worker and a male psychiatrist. A psychiatrist would be able to determine that he's delusional on his own, right?

THERAPIST: Should be if Gordon were actually honest.

MOTHER: Gordon is a really good actor.

THERAPIST: Unless he wants to try to hide it.

MOTHER: I don't think he wants to hide it anymore. I think he just got tired. We had a family meeting a couple of months or a month or so ago when it was really revving up to where we had to bar the doors and lock things and look first because Bruce was after us. And I don't doubt that Bruce was after us because he did write Brett some nasty notes and threatened the whole family. [00:06:02] But Gordon didn't want me to get a restraining order against him so I didn't. He didn't want anybody to tip him off that he's under investigation for first degree murder. I had a similar situation when I was early 20's where I found out this friend of mine had murdered somebody and I wasn't the same for weeks. It just blew me away that I could know somebody who could commit murder. And it wasn't first degree. It wasn't premeditated, but he still murdered the guy. It was in a bar fight and I just flipped, so I can't even imagine what Gordon is going through because between working as a detective for the agency as an investigator and then finding out that your best friend possibly murdered someone that you went to school with, it's got to be traumatic. [00:07:07]

THERAPIST: Gordon was a detective?

MOTHER: Yeah. He worked for an investigative firm.

FATHER: Which he oddly and we're not sure how it happened, left the firm because he was going to be taken by the Secret Service or whatever to be undercover. The delusions are just absolutely amazing. You have to believe he must really actually believe these things.

THERAPIST: Yeah, of course. It's incredibly hard. You guys have been through an incredibly hard . . .

FATHER: Oh, my God. First, we're open here. Dora has had lots of issues trying to deal with this.

MOTHER: But I'm not drinking. I have my red wine at night.

THERAPIST: Right.

FATHER: No, she's still drinking.

MOTHER: But I'm not doing daytime stuff unless, of course, it's a special occasion.

FATHER: She has mental issues. We have marital issues. We fight and she talks about going to a convent somewhere and I said, "Can I go to a priest thing somewhere else?" [00:08:01]

THERAPIST: So the marital issues are worse?

MOTHER: (sighs) They got better after Morgan's seizure.

THERAPIST: You two were brought together?

FATHER: Yeah. The Gordon thing, though, has sort of . . .

MOTHER: Yeah, the Gordon thing put the whole family over the top.

THERAPIST: It's so hard.

FATHER: But see, now he blames me for everything. I am the cause of all evil.

MOTHER: He blames us.

FATHER: It took me like six days of being on the phone eight hours – well, maybe not eight, maybe six – to get Morgan's insurance to pay for his brand medication. When I had checked it out beforehand and I was told no problem on the 15th . . . And the miracle was his insurance kicked in on 12:01 AM September 15th and that night he had the seizure. Talk about miracles, huh? That was my miracle for the day, even though I had to watch him go through probably the worst seizure I have ever seen. [00:09:06]

FATHER: And, thankfully, all the family came over.

THERAPIST: It sounds incredibly terrifying. Not to see, not to hear . . .

MOTHER: He doesn't remember anything. The weird thing is he was fine. We were making dinner together. He wants to learn to cook so we put on cute aprons together and we cook. I had just made his favorite peppers, little sweet, colored peppers, and he was stir-frying them up. We sat down to have our steak and peppers and the kid is a maniac for ginger sauce. So we sit down and he said, "You know, my head feels funny. I think I'll take a Zyrtec," because that's what one doctortold him. Lay off the ibuprofen . . .

CLIENT: The bastard screwed up and almost killed me. Excuse me for that, but he is.

MOTHER: . . . and Tylenol because of liver issues because the anti-convulsants create liver issues, too. [00:10:04]

THERAPIST: Zyrtec is an anti-allergy type thing?

MOTHER: Yeah, but for some reason it worked on his headaches. He's taken it before and never seized. So he takes the Zyrtec and maybe ten minutes later he's totally catatonic. We're sitting on the floor . . .

FATHER: Staring at him, kind of.

MOTHER: . . . and it wasn't just an absence seizure. It was a full-blown petit mal because there were only twitches and ticks.

THERAPIST: How did you get him in the car?

FATHER: Ambulance.

THERAPIST: Thank heaven.

MOTHER: And the medics were good.

FATHER: Thankfully, I don't think people know about the hospital, so it's never that crowded. It's so new, I guess. I don't know what it is. [00:11:03]

MOTHER: But the seizure itself looked more to me like a stroke because he couldn't put his words together. Usually, with his seizures, they're usually absence. There's no response. There's not response to stimuli or pain or anything. I tried the pain stimuli. That didn't bring him out of it – where you prick somebody with a needle to see if they react. He didn't. Gordon came back from where he was. I don't know where he was that night. Brett came over from his apartment, which is about a half-mile away and Emily came. We tried to sit him up. He wanted to get up and walk around, but he still couldn't speak and he was like that; so I said, "This is more than a seizure. We're three hours into it." Usually we can get him to throw up and he'll come out of it. [00:12:03] I don't know why that is, but then the consensus was let's call 911 and get an ambulance over here because he was just complete dead weight. Casey and I were trying to lift him. The boys were helping. We just couldn't even make him – you know. After three hours we all decided this was going to take a hospital and, thank God, he has insurance.

FATHER: But if I can just say a few words, in speaking to the doctor, we were going through in our minds that he may have gotten a bacterial infection from church. (chuckles) I'm thinking oh, my God. I can't go to church anymore.

MOTHER: They wanted to do a spinal tap to see if he had meningitis and they were going to lock down the whole floor. Everybody had on masks and those yellow things and I'm like, "Well, he didn't have a fever when he came in. Why does he have a fever now?" [00:13:02] A fever is not a postictal event. She seems to think that he was off the brand too long; the generic formulation is not as good as the brand. I guess he finally woke up after the E.R. They couldn't do the spinal tap. They couldn't get any fluid, so they couldn't definitively decide if it was meningitis or not; but they gave him antibiotics anyway. His white count was twice the normal limit. His random glucose was higher than Casey's has ever been; and Casey has been in the 300's. I'm like, "Well, none of these are postictal. I'm not understanding."

FATHER: Dora, we don't have a lot of time. Why don't we just go through this.

MOTHER: So anyway, it turned out the antibiotics worked because the next morning he woke up and was like, "Where am I? What happened?" and he tried to pulled the Foley out so he could go to the bathroom. [00:14:06]

FATHER: But Dr. Bingham believes there wasn't anything like that. He believes that it was because he was off-brand he had a breakthrough, so we've been instructed to put him back on brand anti-seizure medicines. Don't take any chances. He's like, thank God, okay now. He appears fine. We have an appointment to see Dr. Bingham. We're working with her and her assistant. He's not the only issue and things affecting him and Dora's fight with her addiction and our marital problems.

CLIENT: She threw the Zyrtec bottle in the woods.

FATHER: It's sort of the alky versus the stoner, which I am not today. I just want to let you know.

CLIENT: Don't blame me for doing that. [00:15:00]

FATHER: So it's kind of like that's her, that's me and, even though I try to bring her over to my side, she still seems to need that glass two or three or four of wine at night, which she cradles and brings upstairs when we go to bed.

MOTHER: I don't cradle it.

FATHER: So it's a big issue. It's a big issue for affecting Gordon to a certain degree. So on top of all that, then we have Brett and, again, that's all part of the tapestry. Love life and he's trying to find a childhood sweetheart and that's a problem. Emily and Devon are constantly at war. And again, when Dora and I try to get together, and we do at times, brief moments, shining moments, but then if there's a game on – finally it's over. For me, finally it's over, thank you; because I'm a baseball widower, as I've told you many times. [00:15:58] But at night it's kind of like she drinks. She starts cleaning, chandlering. She's sort of off in her own world with a glass in the kitchen, doing things that she's very – she does a lot, but it's all part of that.

MOTHER: I don't drink in the kitchen.

THERAPIST: Why is the marriage doing more poorly?

FATHER: Because I'm into one thing and head and, really, she only wants to drink. And by the way, there's a meeting of AA right down the road in the clubhouse where we live maybe once a week or so. She just never goes.

CLIENT: And she wants to be stubborn and not go to it.

FATHER: She just finds ways of getting around it.

THERAPIST: So when you're not doing your thing, is the tension less? When you're not partying at all, is the tension less?

MOTHER: No, there's always . . .

FATHER: What do you mean "tension less?"

THERAPIST: In other words, if you are straight and Dora is still imbibing a little bit, is that a little better than both of you imbibing? [00:17:03]

FATHER: It's always bad when she imbibes.

MOTHER: Casey never not imbibes.

FATHER: You have to realize that when I "imbibe" on my situation, I'm mellow. I'm watching TV, wanting to do creative things, saying whatever. When Dora drinks, it's a different head. It's the parable of Jekyll and Hyde. The demons come out. She'll tell me things while she's drinking that the next day she'll say, "Oh, I didn't mean that. Oh, of course I didn't mean that. No, I'm not going to go live in a convent. No, I don't want to leave you. No, I don't." So it's like this is the roller coaster. I'm not saying I deserve any pity or anything, I'm just saying she has that problem. It doesn't make her mellow. I'm worried about Morgan. I have Gordon who is institutionalized right now. But the good things are that I was appointed council advocate of my Altrusa thing. [00:18:04]

MOTHER: Beautiful ceremony.

FATHER: I've been singing with my Altrusas. They play guitar, I sing.

THERAPIST: When you say you're worried about Morgan, it's because of the seizures? The other stuff is okay?

CLIENT: Yeah.

FATHER: His artistry is tremendous.

THERAPIST: That's what I thought.

FATHER: The seizures alone.

THERAPIST: Well the Gordon stuff is incredibly serious. I understand that's so stressful, stressful beyond belief.

FATHER: That is sort of like on another level.

THERAPIST: I agree. I agree, because we don't know if we're talking chronic here. This could be short-term; it could be very long-term. I understand.

FATHER: And again, we're going to want your advice. If it is going to be long-term, does he stay there? Does he go somewhere else? [00:18:58]

THERAPIST: Well, there really isn't long-term psychiatric very much anymore. It will be somewhere else. It will be community-based at this point. To be in-patient for a long time the chronicity has to be, the severity has to be very intense. I don't think he'll match that. They'll find a way to stabilize him and get him out.

MOTHER: He's got to be willing to take medication.

FATHER: And see a therapist.

MOTHER: Yeah.

FATHER: Both of the things he's eschewed . . .

MOTHER: He needs a psychiatrist.

FATHER: . . . and not wanted to deal with. It's kind of like he's his own worst enemy. He needs to see a therapist. He needs medication, but both of those I think he sees as controlling.

CLIENT: He's fucked up.

THERAPIST: No, I understand. I understand. You two – do you ever get out? Are there ever times when the two of you are both sober at the same time?

MOTHER: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're saying yes?

MOTHER: Like right now. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Is that far better? In other words, does that really not make a difference in terms of the vibe? You don't think it makes a big... ? [00:20:02]

FATHER: If I look at her, I know that's all she wants to do. I know that she's plotting in her head, "I'm going to go home and have a drink."

MOTHER: See? He's putting words in my mouth.

FATHER: No, I'm not. I'm thinking in terms of what I feel.

MOTHER: That's what you think of me. You think every time I go into the kitchen it's wanting a drink; that I wake up in the morning just craving alcohol. That's not true.

FATHER: Let's put it this way, when I go out to sing with a Altrusa brother or do a Altrusa meeting, I'll ask her not to drink and a typical thing would be to have Gordon go out and buy her a bottle or two of wine. I mean, you do it all the time, Dora.

MOTHER: You used to bring me the wine.

CLIENT: People do it for her.

FATHER: No, but you do it now whenever I'm not in the room or I'm not around. I mean last week or two weeks ago, I found vodka in her purse because she was hiding that. I mean Dora, you have a problem.

MOTHER: That was two months ago.

FATHER: Okay. [00:20:57]

THERAPIST: And the idea of returning to AA at this point, you're feeling disinclined towards that? You didn't really feel connected? You didn't really want to go for sobriety?

MOTHER: I didn't feel connected because – my God, these women are major . . . I'll sit there and say, "My name is Dora and I'm in recovery and, oh, my God, I had four glasses of white wine last night," and they laugh like that's fruit punch because these are women who have Manhattans for breakfast.

THERAPIST: I know. That doesn't mean that it still might not be a problem for you. I'm not trying to say it is, I just don't know. Certainly something is going on in your marriage because you two have weathered so much and you do love each other, but clearly there's a tension that's getting more common for me to see between the two of you. I always think the two of you, at the end of the day . . .

FATHER: Do you see these cop-outs? These are – okay, Gordon and Morgan and then the rest are Dora and my problems and her problems – being drunk, lecturing me at night, chandlering, doing cleaning and fussing while she's under the influence. [00:22:10] I say, "Gee, let's watch this show," and she'll yell, "I'm doing something in here;" and really she's in the kitchen faux cleaning while she's drinking or cleaning for real and drinking.

MOTHER: It's not faux cleaning. I like to have a clean kitchen and I like making candles and all he does is make fun of me.

FATHER: No, only because I know it's just . . .

MOTHER: First he says "get a hobby" and then he says "come sit here and watch me watch MSNBC," which was supposed to stop, especially after Morgan's seizure because it upsets him.

THERAPIST: I remember. Right. Right.

MOTHER: And it's on 24/7. It's never not on.

CLIENT: Yeah, like the Ed Schultz, Casey Matthews, Al Sharpton, Rachel Maddow.

THERAPIST: It does feel as though both of you have gotten to the place where you're not really willing to compromise. There really hasn't been a lot of compromise on either of your parts. [00:23:04]

FATHER: How am I supposed to compromise?

CLIENT: Casey Matthew, Rev. Al Sharpton, Rachel Maddow.

THERAPIST: The MSNBC thing we've talked about before, the drinking we've talked about. I mean I feel like all we do is talk about these topics which the two of you sort of acknowledged and said you would try to make some differences on it, but it feels like it doesn't shift.

FATHER: Is there no hope for us?

THERAPIST: No, I don't want to say that because I think you two really do love each other. You're a dedicated pair. I'm not going there, but I am conscious of the idea that this topic keeps on coming back up though.

MOTHER: MSNBC is going to be a network forever.

FATHER: But it's just not that. It's not just MSNBC. Okay, so I like that station. I shouldn't watch it. I should have my own TV somewhere, I guess . . .

MOTHER: It upsets everyone that you have to hear the news all the time.

FATHER: . . . but every time I go to mass, every time I go to an Altrusa meeting, every time I sing somewhere else, every time I go out of the house, Dora, you're drinking either behind my back or . . . [00:24:05]

MOTHER: Okay, Monday, you went out looking with John for cars. What did I do? I spent half the day on the phone trying to get Morgan's meds and the other half convincing Gordon he should 304 himself so I didn't have to do it.

FATHER: And you had a better day. And I'm not saying you don't do wonderful things.

MOTHER: I didn't want to commit my own son. I wanted him to do it. I wanted him to . . .

FATHER: I'm just saying our marriage is strained, to a large extent, because of your excessive drinking.

MOTHER: I don't have excessive drinking. Two or three glasses of wine a night is not excessive drinking.

FATHER: When you're an alcoholic it is.

MOTHER: Maybe I'm not an alcoholic. Maybe I just like my red wine. Oh, and the other thing, I was on blood-pressure medication because I have really high blood pressure because of all my other shit. It upset him that it makes me pee every 20-30 minutes. I was keeping him up at night so I stopped the blood-pressure medication so I won't go to the bathroom as often. I think that's a compromise. [00:25:01]

FATHER: And I'm not saying I agree to that. I'm sorry this has turned into an adversarial thing, but let it all hang out for Scott because bottom line is I never said don't take your blood-pressure medication.

MOTHER: But that's what was causing me to go to the bathroom so often.

FATHER: Okay, maybe it was also your imbibing of liquor.

MOTHER: I don't imbibe in the bathroom. I don't hide bottles. I ask you before I pour one.

[ ] (crosstalk at 00:25:27)

FATHER: Dysfunctional family. I wonder if we could help the family by not being together because our fighting doesn't help the tension.

THERAPIST: But you two don't want to be apart. Unless I'm mistaken, the minute the two of you are apart you really do start to miss the other.

FATHER: Yeah, but maybe for health's sake, for that time-out thing, for that appreciation if that's where we want to go, she should go to her mythical convent.

MOTHER: It's not mythical. [00:26:00]

FATHER: Okay. Okay. Whatever.

MOTHER: I'm tired of being diminished by you and demeaned.

THERAPIST: Well, Dora. What are you actually saying?

MOTHER: I need a break. I need a break. There is a convent I went to when I was in my 20's.

THERAPIST: Right, like a retreat.

MOTHER: I stayed there. They kept me there, I guess you could call it a retreat. I baked bread, I scrubbed floors, I prayed a lot. I got my shit back together.

THERAPIST: And you have that to go to?

MOTHER: Yeah.

FATHER: And Scott, I'm all for it.

MOTHER: I wish we had the money to send me.

FATHER: Well, that's a big issue.

THERAPIST: But there would be retreats locally, right? How expensive are they?

MOTHER: I don't know. I could probably get Catholic Services to help me.

THERAPIST: Would it be worth looking into that? Do you feel that would be something you would be willing to try?

MOTHER: I just can't . . . it's like no matter what I do it's never good enough. It's like being married to my father. (sniffles) It's just never good enough, no matter what I do.

CLIENT: My grandfather is very mean and closed-minded. [00:27:02]

MOTHER: The meals I cook, there's always a comment on your "slop" that you throw on the table. I spend time cooking. I enjoy cooking. I think I'm a pretty good cook. Now he's got this thing against chicken because one night he got sick from some chicken.

FATHER: And Emily has a chicken allergy and I've read some things about chicken being bad.

MOTHER: Okay, so he read chicken is a GMO, so I won't make chicken anymore. We used to have it two times a week because it was cheap and I was good at it. They liked it. Now all of a sudden we can't have chicken. Won't eat pork because his grandmother died of trichinosis. What's the other thing you won't eat? Basically everything.

THERAPIST: And who else cooks? Does Morgan?

MOTHER: Morgan helps me. I cook. I do the laundry. I take care of the bills.

CLIENT: I do my own laundry.

MOTHER: I make all the phone calls.

CLIENT: I do my own laundry.

MOTHER: I TiVo whatever shows he wants. I listen to him . . . [00:27:58]

FATHER: That's another, if I can just interrupt you. Her constant self-inflation and she does so much, but it's always like you're the one. I'm a piece of raw dung.

MOTHER: Can you help with laundry? No.

CLIENT: I do my own laundry. My clothes I do. My sheets I do.

FATHER: It's because I can't lift everything because of my physical issues and restrictions. Scott, I'll be honest with you. I can't take living with somebody that thinks I'm the root of all evil in her life. I want her to be happy so badly, it would be better for me to know she was somewhere else and happy than to be in her presence thinking I am part of the cause, if not all of it, of her sadness and woe. Believe me, I'm at this stage of my life. Please, be happy. Go somewhere. If you know of a retreat or a convent locally . . .

THERAPIST: Are you saying – there are retreats around. I know there are. I would think through the Altrusa that you would have better access than I would to find one.

FATHER: The only thing I get turned onto is that thing and they have once in a while a weekend or a week of women who go there on retreat, but I haven't been able to get her interested in any of that. [00:29:06] And of course, all of that costs money because it's like a retreat and you have to pay money for it. But if there is the Sisters of Good Hope somewhere an hour or two or three or four or five hours driving distance and I can take her there and we can afford for her to stay there and pray and just find herself, I'm all for that. Hey, I don't want her to be tortured and at the end of the road if it means that she's going to have a different path than me, I'm willing to work that.

THERAPIST: Do you believe that you see Casey as being that – when you use the term "root of evil?"

MOTHER: No, he's not the root of evil. He's controlling, manipulating, he diminishes me, he demeans me.

THERAPIST: So you both feel diminished by the other?

MOTHER: He calls me a Yankee whore. It's like he knows how long baseball season lasts. We're out of it now. [00:30:02] Tonight's the last game in the stadium for the whole season, but tonight if I try to put it on while Casey is on, he'll just call me a Yankee whore and that I want to get in their jock straps.

FATHER: Dora, I may have called you that once or twice, but not like every night.

MOTHER: This is what I get, but I don't say things like that to him. I just say, "I can't take this another minute. I'm going back to the convent." But I don't demean or diminish or insult him the way he insults me.

FATHER: That's not true. That's just not true when I'm constantly being insulted.

MOTHER: It's like "my food is slop." I'm a Yankee whore, I'm a drunk, I don't do anything, I have no talent. Come one – day after day I ‘m supposed to put up with this? This is not fair. This is not right. (crying) [00:30:57]

FATHER: Okay, Dora, show the waterworks, but basically it's also me on the other side.

MOTHER: I'm not allowed to cry either.

FATHER: No, cry. Cry all you want. The fact that I'm not crying now is only because I just don't want to cry, but bottom line is you're constantly always diminishing me telling me I'm stupid and I don't help with things. Telling me that all I care about is singing.

MOTHER: I never call you stupid. I don't even use the word stupid.

FATHER: I'm not allowed to talk? Basically, Dora, everyone in the world, including Gordon who is now institutionalized, has looked at you and said that if you went to a convent, maybe everybody could try to pull our shit together because pretty much your alcoholism is overtaking your ability to function within the family. I'm just not getting it. I'm sorry that it's come to this and we have all of these problems; and I'm not sure it's surmountable, but to paint me as I am an evil . . .

MOTHER: I didn't say you weren't able to . . .

FATHER: No, but that's pretty much it. There's nothing positive about me on any level to you. [00:32:05]

MOTHER: Casey, everybody in the family has told you that everything is always about you. When you couldn't go because Gordon went into the hospital, staying with your Altrusa buddy, I counted the number of times you said, "I can't believe I didn't get to sing with my Altrusa buddies."

FATHER: And I'm sorry that that's one of the things that enriches my soul is my singing.

MOTHER: Everything you do is to enrich your soul and you don't give a rat's ass about the rest of us.

FATHER: Really? Do I not try to take you to mass? Do I not try to include you in spiritual activities? Do I not try to introduce you to my Altrusa' buddies' friends so that you will have a friend that you can relate to? I think that's hogwash. I'm sorry. I just do. I'll sit her and defend myself, but it's pointless because she has a vision of me and she's not happy with me.

THERAPIST: Why is it that in the past the two of you have always then dropped back to the part about the other that you do like? In other words, what's happened? [00:33:02] Because that used to be the saving grace. You'd have this level of anger, but then there was always this part where you would then say, "But I love her and she's great," and you'd say, "I care about him. I care about his health. I want . . ." That stuff – I don't know why it's missing now.

FATHER: I don't know. Maybe you just beat somebody down and vice versa. We feel this way about each of us to the point where there's nothing left. You beat the love out of somebody. You get so disgusted that you look at your life and you say, "How old am I? My God, is there any hope? Should I try something else?" I look at her and I say if she's this unhappy, why should she stay with me? Why not go do something? And even though we're in tumult now and I do depend on her for so much, I'll retool myself and figure out how to do the bills and other things and Morgan's medicine.

THERAPIST: I have a feeling that this is connecting to Gordon. I think there's something about this that makes me feel that there's something chronic happening that's freaking everybody out and that reserve that you both used to have is somehow gone. [00:34:11]

MOTHER: Gordon knocked it out of us.

FATHER: Everybody is affected by it.

MOTHER: When that kid is at home it's like walking on eggshells. I'm always a nervous wreck. I have shakes. He's in a bad mood. He's upset. Gordon rants and raves.

FATHER: Do you know what it's like, if I can add a caveat?

MOTHER: It's a fucking nightmare. I'll tell you what it's like. It's a fucking nightmare, no offense.

FATHER: We'll quietly watch a show on television at 9:00 at night and, of course, we have an open basement. It goes down the stairs and there's no door, so we tip-toe around but if he can't sleep he will bellow and shout "keep it down up there." I used to have an uncle who lived on the other side of the wall from where my dad's place was on a two-story house. They lived with his father and every time I turn up the TV he would yell from the other room. It was scary. It was like having a troll across the wall. [00:35:06] That's what it's like with Gordon. It's scary. It's like we tip-toe. (whispering) "Did you get the glass for upstairs?" We're taking our tray up.

THERAPIST: It's crazy. It's too crazy.

FATHER: It's insane. It's bedlam.

THERAPIST: But I think that's the problem. It's created this level of anxiety with the two of you. I know there's some wine and I know there's your type of partying and I know there's other things, but there's something happening here where you used to have a reserve that you two could sort of tap into and it feels gone to me. There's a qualitative difference right now.

FATHER: Certainly Gordon has had to have an impact, let's be honest. Whether that's the only cause . . .

THERAPIST: No, no, no. Of course not. I'm sure Dora's drinking is part of it. I'm sure that your sort of obsession on the news is part of it. Things are happening. I'm not comparing them to be equal, but there used to always be this thing that would drop back to what makes us still a good pair – and that scares me that I'm not hearing that. [00:36:08] (pause)

FATHER: I don't know, Scott. How many times do you have to be told that somebody doesn't want to be with you? For me, on my side, speaking for myself only, it's like there is once in a while a flourish of some affection, but pretty much it's like I'm demeaned in my view and . . .

MOTHER: How am I demeaning you?

FATHER: . . . there's a general expression that I could be happier somewhere else or that the love is gone or that there is nothing left. So what would I... ? I don't know. It's upsetting. I could cry now, but I don't want to because I'm here with you.

THERAPIST: You don't feel from Dora love for you?

FATHER: Not anymore. No. I feel like she's reached a point where I – you know. [00:37:05] You reach a point with somebody where you're at the end of the road emotionally. That's where I feel. So much has happened. Sure, the Gordon thing is a big deal, but the inability to control herself with things that she likes to do and imbibe and pretty much lying to me consistently about it, I don't feel like I have confidence with her or a connection where I can trust her even. I don't know what to say. Do I wish it was back? Do I wish I could snap my fingers and Dora and I could be like in love again? Yeah, of course, sure.

THERAPIST: And you would like the same thing? You would like to feel that way for Casey?

MOTHER: I'd like it if he loved me.

THERAPIST: You don't feel that he loves you either at this point?

MOTHER: I don't think he ever loved me. I just facilitated him and it was handy. [00:38:02] I have no value in his eyes.

FATHER: See, this is another thing. She has such low self-esteem.

THERAPIST: But do you agree? Do you feel that she's accurate on that part right now? Do you feel like "I still love Dora" or do you think "no, right now it's hard for me to say that one."

FATHER: I do love her, but you can love people that are constantly whittling away at you and lying to you. At some point is it like do I love somebody that can't change? That won't try to get control of herself? That won't stop lying to me? I don't know anymore.

MOTHER: I've never lied to you. How have I lied to you?

FATHER: Over the last few weeks, in terms of when you're drinking and you don't tell me and you're hiding vodka little flasks.

MOTHER: No, you threw those away, for one thing, and you pour all the wine that I drink.

FATHER: That's only a recent thing.

MOTHER: That's not a recent thing.

FATHER: But you don't moderate, Dora. [00:39:02]

MOTHER: I do, too, moderate.

FATHER: It's like, "Oh, I'm just going to have a glass, two or three," then we're opening up a second bottle of wine. So Morgan drinks a little bit. Okay, big deal. That's not the issue here. I don't know, Scott. If I could snap my fingers and things would be good, that would be perfect.

THERAPIST: Do the two of you want to try anything new or do you think no, at this point, we make commitments that we just literally don't follow. (pause)

FATHER: What are you recommending, some marriage encounter?

THERAPIST: Well, that's one possibility because it feels like your work with me has really been about sort of – obviously, I've remained Morgan's therapist, seeing the family, and at this point, either it would be true marriage therapy, where that's the actual goal, or a marriage encounter sort of process through the church. [00:39:59]

FATHER: The church is the only thing – or one of the few things – we still have congruency on, even though we've waxed and waned separately. Like at one point Dora was a teacher and very into it and I was sort of estranged. It was tough to even get me to go to mass. Now it's kind of reversed. I don't even feel good unless I have a bulletin and I've been to mass. I have my Altrusa brothers and we say the rosary before every meeting, so I'm more into that mode and she has sort of drifted away, for whatever reason. Is that accurate?

MOTHER: I haven't drifted away.

FATHER: Okay.

MOTHER: You act like I'm a lapsed Catholic. I've never been a lapsed Catholic. I took these kids to mass for 20 years while you sat around watching your Sunday shows.

FATHER: You've told me several times, Dora, that you've lost some of your Catholicism interest. [00:40:56]

MOTHER: No I haven't. I might be a cafeteria Catholic because I'm pro-choice and I have no problem with gay people getting married, so that makes me a cafeteria Catholic. Sorry. Sorry, God.

THERAPIST: Morgan, is it hard for you when your folks do this? I always feel bad about you being here. Is it okay for you to be here?

CLIENT: Right now it's difficult for me. (breathing heavy) (crying)

THERAPIST: That's what I figure. It must be very hard.

MOTHER: Don't cry, Morgan.

CLIENT: I can't stop crying, God damn it. Sorry to use that word, Scott.

THERAPIST: What part is hard, Morgan?

CLIENT: Hearing them fight. (crying) Like what the fuck? You two can't stop acting like babies? You can't stop acting weak, dad. (crying)

MOTHER: What?

CLIENT: Being a fucking drug addict with MSNBC, Ed Schultz, Casey Matthews, Rev. Al Sharpton, Rachel fucking Maddow.

FATHER: Okay. You know the line-up. Thank you. I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: What about it do you find difficult to you?

FATHER: The news depresses him.

THERAPIST: Okay, so you really don't like the fact that it's there in the house?

CLIENT: Yeah. He watches like at least eight hours-worth a day, at least eight a day.

THERAPIST: And you mentioned also before that your mom's drinking still concerns you as well?

CLIENT: Yeah. She drinks way more than two glasses a day, like four probably. I don't know how many.

THERAPIST: So in other words, if each parent were to slice in half what they were doing, literally the MSNBC really was never on more than four hours and we really didn't have more than a glass-and-a-half of wine – I don't know if they could do this, and probably they couldn't. [00:43:05]

CLIENT: Moderate it, too.

THERAPIST: If you use the addiction analogy, maybe neither of them could have that control, but you're saying that if that control was possible, that would be remarkably helpful. Yeah. I'm not sure if they have that control anymore, Morgan. I'm not sure they're even interested in . . .

MOTHER: I think in terms of just take the soul out of . . .

FATHER: I think Gordon was probably the last straw.

MOTHER: Yeah, that was the last straw.

THERAPIST: I understand.

CLIENT: With Gordon I know he needs help, but living with him was a fucking nightmare.

THERAPIST: I know. I realize that. I'd like to ask your parents to try to make this accommodation. I feel, at this point, I don't think either of them has the wherewithal to do it, though. I really don't feel as though the willpower or the motivation is there.

FATHER: Scott, if we had two million dollars, we wouldn't be together. She'd have a million; I'd have a million. I'd definitely still see you. She'd see you separately or someone else – I don't know. [00:44:02] But we're together at this point because we . . . I think we love each other. There's still that reservoir, our family, but we don't have the wherewithal to split up. It's pretty sad.

THERAPIST: But there could be a way to make things better and I think that Morgan is right. At some level it's almost as though you two both sort of fight each other by increasing the behavior that you know the other person just can't stand. I'm not saying you don't love what you're watching in TV. I'm not saying you don't enjoy your wine, but I think part of it is also coming out of rebellion to the other, frankly. There's a feeling to me that that's . . .

FATHER: Well I never watch MSNBC thinking "wow, I'll show you how much . . ."

THERAPIST: I don't know that anymore, Casey. I don't know that there's not – I'm sure you're enjoying it, but I'm not positive anymore that there's not an awareness that it's about you sort of doing what you feel you need to do for you and, Dora, knowing the effect of multiple glasses of wine . . .

FATHER: Well there's definitely thumbing each other's nose.

THERAPIST: Right, there's thumbing noses here.

FATHER: The wine intake is just . . .

MOTHER: I don't thumb my nose at you. [00:45:04]

FATHER: Figuratively speaking.

THERAPIST: Figuratively, I think that that's what's happening.

MOTHER: No, I don't drink to spite you.

THERAPIST: I don't think he watches TV to spite you, but I think both of you know the effect of doing your behaviors in excess.

FATHER: He made Morgan the promise after the seizure that MSNBC would go – and that's on top of the promise he made to you two months ago.

CLIENT: I'm sorry about this, Scott.

THERAPIST: No, Morgan, I really appreciate your comments.

MOTHER: I just don't understand why he gets to do everything and anything he wants.

CLIENT: I know you're furious.

MOTHER: I get to worry. I get to do all the heavy lifting.

CLIENT: I don't think you do all the heavy lifting.

MOTHER: No, Morgan, it's figurative. I'm just a piece of shit. That's what I am. I'm a piece of shit.

THERAPIST: Both of you feel that way. Both of you feel that the other one has no respect and unless you're willing to start having [ego en mass, you want to.] (ph?) If you don't use some of your religious beliefs towards your relationship of the other, I think that's really unfortunate. [00:46:02] I also think that there is this sort of pissing contest going on, even though it might be unconscious, that I think is also really unfortunate.

FATHER: I think you've nailed it, Scott.

MOTHER: I don't feel like I'm in a pissing contest. I just feel empty now. Gordon put me out.

THERAPIST: I think the Gordon thing is unbelievably stressful. That one I think is. I'm not denying, but you two would still rally. There's a reason why Morgan's seizure brought you together because the two of you have the capacity to actually function together.

FATHER: Scott if I had the money, I wanted to take her to Europe and every time we try to plan, it's like we have no money.

THERAPIST: I know. I know.

FATHER: We have no money. We can't afford it; because she hasn't been to Scotland and she's Scottish, part Scottish, and I want to take her there.

MOTHER: It just makes me sad when you bring it up because I know we'll never get there. [00:47:04]

FATHER: I'm just trying to express my frustration, you know? That's what I'd like to do for you.

THERAPIST: I know you would and I know that Dora really does take care of you, Casey.

FATHER: She does.

THERAPIST: Absolutely.

FATHER: She does, but when it's thrown in my face it's kind of like . . .

MOTHER: I'm not throwing it in your face.

THERAPIST: I really have heard Dora say it in a way that doesn't feel like she is lording it over you. I think, in a lot of ways, it's something that she feels that it's something that she does and that there's pride in it, too. It's not all "this is horrible."

FATHER: Scott, you know what it's like to hear somebody tell you on a regular basis how they want to leave you?

THERAPIST: No, that one I'd rather not be said.

FATHER: It doesn't do much for that oversized ego, as everyone says I have and – what am I? Misogynistic?

MOTHER: That means you hate women. It's narcissistic.

FATHER: Okay, narcissistic. Right. So I'm a narcissist who is obsessed with his own pleasures and interests. You don't really like me very much.

MOTHER: I knew that when I met you. [00:48:05] That's no news to me. I love you anyway.

THERAPIST: I certainly don't think that she does it – I don't think she dislikes you. I think she's always found you to be interesting. I know there are recurrent patterns that are unhappy, but one thing that's always been is that you two kind of like each other. You think the other person is kind of amusing and the other one is sort of charming.

FATHER: There were recent times when I'll say things commenting on people and (laughing) I'll get her to laugh. Regularly.

THERAPIST: Right. I know. And that's what I'm saying.

FATHER: I have some really strained scintilla of wit left that hasn't just faded into the ether.

MOTHER: That's not true. You make me laugh more than you make me cry.

CLIENT: You're funny, Casey. It's not scintilla. Don't do that. That's fishing.

MOTHER: Yes.

FATHER: I like to fish. I need to fish.

THERAPIST: I don't want you to say you're going to leave him, though. This guy is sensitive on that one. [00:49:01]

MOTHER: He has asked me every day since he left work to leave him, that he is sick of me, that there are hundreds of other women in his head.

THERAPIST: Would you guys stop doing this stuff about the... ? Would you just realize that you're together.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's immature. You both do it.

THERAPIST: It is. I agree with Morgan on this one.

MOTHER: He started it.

THERAPIST: Oh, whatever. (all laughing) Oh, God. I'm on a playground. Come on, you guys. Seriously.

MOTHER: When he'll like look at a commercial for the Lincoln Concierge and go "I'm so horny right now for this woman," that hurts.

FATHER: I don't say that. I say, "This woman makes me horny," and I direct it towards you. She's just merely a door opener.

THERAPIST: You know you two could try to do this stuff better. Come on. This really is (sighs) beneath you.

FATHER: You won't shut it off now. See?

[ ] (crosstalk at 00:49:56)

THERAPIST: (laughing) I think that Morgan is the one who understands this best. [00:50:02]

CLIENT: I think he's recording us to have us humiliate the public.

MOTHER: No, Morgan.

THERAPIST: No, but I think that the recording, if you listen back, you would hear the way the two of you sort of make your argument that the other one doesn't respect you, that you're not loved, and then you'd hear comments that indicate yeah, of course there's still love. There's still respect. There's something sort of schizophrenic – and I don't mean psychotic – there's something that's kind of crazy about the pattern you two . . . I mean I remember when you two used to swear at each other and I finally had to say, "Just because you're angry doesn't mean you can swear at each other." There's something that has to happen.

CLIENT: There are words like fuck or shit that . . .

THERAPIST: If you could drink a little less, if you could possibly watch the television – I don't care if you have a transistor radio and plug the thing into your ear bud. [00:50:58]

FATHER: You know what I've tried to do? Morgan uses the computer a lot, but when I get time on there I'll pull up the (laughing) MSNBC website so I don't watch it on TV. I'm addicted to news.

THERAPIST: I know, but it is an addiction.

FATHER: It is an addiction. You know once in a while Dora and I will compromise and I'll watch soaps with her. I love soap operas. We do watch that kind of thing.

THERAPIST: But there's also listening to music, there is taking walks, there are things that don't cost money that would get – you two are in this hotbed. You have Gordon underneath with everything, the stress being through the moon, or you're in the house with the two of you sort of watching wine, watching how much TV is being watched. I mean I listen to it and I get stressed.

FATHER: See, this is why I feel bad for him.

THERAPIST: Oh, no. (laughing)

FATHER: We love you so much.

THERAPIST: (laughing) I know. I know. Do it for me. (all laughing)

FATHER: I almost think that might be the best strategy that we have. We love Scott so much.

MOTHER: Could you take the pen out of your hand and make it a real handshake? [00:52:00]

THERAPIST: Aww. That's nice. Thank you. Thank you.

MOTHER: Because usually I never get to hold his hand.

THERAPIST: But seriously, and I care about you all. I love you all.

FATHER: What do you think we love you for? Because you're a human and you're nice and we like you personally and you're so nice to us and we have no money.

THERAPIST: (laughing) And I'm married to a Yankee fan.

FATHER: Well, there you go. Has she calmed down now?

THERAPIST: She said if they start Phil Hughes she'll throw in the towel and she walked in and said, "They're starting Phil Hughes. I'm throwing in the towel."

MOTHER: I said what is the friggin' point here? This is a make or break.

THERAPIST: Naah, she said they threw in the towel. We saw this guy up in Scranton that was really good, this Japanese guy, and they didn't bring him up. Joanne said they're not trying.

MOTHER: No, they're not. They're not. I know they have their injuries, but they're just not. And no matter what they would have done last night against those people . . .

THERAPIST: No, no, no. It's done. It's done, Dora. I'm sorry. [00:53:01]

MOTHER: It's over. The Redskins won.

FATHER: I know, but see this is like a grieving process.

THERAPIST: (laughing) I understand that.

MOTHER: Did she cry?

THERAPIST: She didn't cry.

MOTHER: She got pissed.

THERAPIST: She just felt like where are they going to go? She said, "I never thought I'd miss Steinbrenner so much."

MOTHER: I know.

FATHER: It's true. As much of the last . . .

MOTHER: See? The devil you know rather than the devil you don't know. Those kids don't know what they're doing.

THERAPIST: I know.

FATHER: What will you wean yourself onto now? Are we going to watch comedy shows or... ?

MOTHER: Winter ball. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Do you have Netflix?

FATHER: Yeah, we have Netflix.

THERAPIST: Have you ever seen The IT Crowd?

MOTHER: Do you know what I said?

THERAPIST: 1 No, what did you say?

MOTHER: Winter ball.

THERAPIST: Winter ball. (laughs)

MOTHER: I just love watching the game of baseball, especially when it's the Yankees. But it's okay, it's over. I'm over it. It's a game.

FATHER: So what do we do? And you can't solve every problem and we should do this marriage encounter, religious-based if it's free or modicum.

THERAPIST: I don't think it's that expensive. [00:54:02]

MOTHER: No, it's not. We used to do, well we did engagement (yawns). Sorry, I haven't been sleeping well.

FATHER: Maybe you could e-mail us a reference.

THERAPIST: Yeah, let me try to track that down, all right?

FATHER: The other thing is what do we do with she's into drinking, I'm into imbibing and we just can't seem to get... ?

MOTHER: Why don't you just call it what it is? You're anonymous.

FATHER: I don't want to. I'm still formally . . .

THERAPIST: But Morgan knows.

FATHER: So why don't we talk to you about it, Morgan? What do we do? It's an impasse. I don't know what to do and I'm the one who will buy her bottles of wine. I'll buy her two bottles of whatever and they're almost drunk by the time the night is over.

THERAPIST: And there can't be any reduction? Because then we're talking addiction if there can't be someone saying I can truly moderate it.

CLIENT: [Largely there is reduction with either.] (ph?)

MOTHER: Yes, who pours the big gulps into the gigunda glass? That would be you, mister.

THERAPIST: Now we've got Morgan under the microscope a little bit, too.

MOTHER: So don't pretend.

CLIENT: Restaurants pour it halfway. [00:55:05]

THERAPIST: Right. Right.

FATHER: Also there's a dichotomy, too, because I love Morgan. You're always going to be special, but I relate to Emily and Brett on the level of what we enjoy doing and our heads and what we like on TV and our interests and Emily sings and Brett is into sci-fi and he draws. Gordon had the acting thing that I had, but he's more sort of like Dora in the sense that they have something.

MOTHER: Apparently Gordon and I are cluster C, whatever the heck that means.

FATHER: And I just want to be mellow, just be mellow and enjoy life and be happy.

CLIENT: You're not mellow lately.

MOTHER: (laughing) You are not a mellow man.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you're not really a mellow guy.

FATHER: I strive for mellow. (all laugh)

THERAPIST: You strive. I know you strive.

FATHER: If there was really an [mg luminosity,] (ph?) I would try to be a mellow light.

THERAPIST: I understand.

CLIENT: Like [grandpa Pat.] (ph?) [00:56:00]

MOTHER: Tell him your speech the other night at your meeting. He's at his Altrusa meeting and it's a whole assembly. It's not just his council. So this guy stands up and says, "We need $300 from the kitty. I want to give a beer and pizza party for the Fourth Degree guys." This assembly navigator dude shoots him down and Casey stands up and says – hit it.

FATHER: We are not Quakers. We are not Mormons here. We are Roman Catholics. We feast on wine like the last supper and this is all about that and I endorse this. I had people coming up to me. It was great. It was like (all laughing) . . .

THERAPIST: "We are not Mormons."

MOTHER: Yeah, we are not Mormons, we are not Quakers, we are Roman Catholics. We party with wine. And then the guy says, " Oh, it's a beer party. Whatever. Christ drank wine." [00:57:03]

FATHER: You know what it is? Scott, I'm the renegade.

THERAPIST: You are.

FATHER: I'm a man with a dirty face.

MOTHER: You know he got his money.

THERAPIST: But you're probably a guilty pleasure though, too. They probably like having someone. The Catholics love rebels.

FATHER: That's true. I have a feeling that's why they're talking me up as the next Grand Knight. Can you imagine me as the general?

MOTHER: I'd have to do all the paperwork.

FATHER: Do you have any idea what the meetings will be like? Because I'm going to not just have the rosary.

THERAPIST: We should do it all in chant.

FATHER: We're going to have a song.

MOTHER: Oh, yeah. He's going to bring music in.

FATHER: There you go. Let people dress in robes. It will be fun.

THERAPIST: (laughing) Incense.

FATHER: Togas.

MOTHER: He didn't want to be a color guard because it involves a cape and those feathery hats and a sword. He goes, "Jesus, I could kill myself with that sword."

FATHER: I didn't say Jesus.

MOTHER: And they do. The way they're supposed to hold the sword – give me that. [00:58:00]

FATHER: And they hold it upright.

MOTHER: No. You're supposed to hold it – I know this because your father taught me – right by your ear, right in front of your ear. This is how you're told supposed to hold it.

CLIENT: I thought you were supposed to hold it like this.

MOTHER: Meanwhile, at this invocation the other day where he gets his cute little thing with his big medal and advocate as an officer, he's in a tuxedo.

THERAPIST: Ooh.

MOTHER: Yeah, they all have to wear tuxes. That's their uniform. Morgan and I dressed up. Everybody else was in pantsuits and I was all gussied up with pearls. I thought this was going to be a big deal.

CLIENT: The one lady wore normal pants.

MOTHER: Yeah, they all looked like Hillary Clinton from the back; not that I'm saying anything about Hillary Clinton, but she's a little hippy.

CLIENT: Sarah Palin sometimes wears pants.

THERAPIST: (laughing) A little hippy.

MOTHER: Do I digress or what? So anyway, we're at this thing and this one dude with the furry hat and the feathers is poking everybody with his sword. He almost took out his own eye. [00:59:01]

FATHER: And of course, a lot of these guys are geezers. It's like Night of the Living Dead.

MOTHER: This is a heavy sword. It's real. (laughs) I'm like, "I can see why you don't want to be in the color guard." He goes, "None of that for me." And his father had all the accoutrements, the sword, the hat.

FATHER: We happen to have a council poet who is wonderful. He just spontaneously can talk like Walt Whitman. He's wonderful.

MOTHER: He has the most beautiful singing voice. He's behind me at mass.

FATHER: He's saying, "You're going to be the next big guy." I'm afraid of it, you know? Then I feel like it's like Caesar, like I really do want it. Oh, no. Don't give it to me. Okay, I'm giving it to you. (all laugh) See them to the lights.

MOTHER: Absolute power.

THERAPIST: St. Peter and Paul, Bevelacqua was there and he came up with his big mitre on and someone elbowed me and said, ‘The hat." (all laugh)

MOTHER: I know, it's like, [01:00:00] I love him. He's so mellow. He wears a little tiny . . .

THERAPIST: The small guy?

MOTHER: Yeah.

THERAPIST: This guy is great. We need to have a Jesuit.

FATHER: Isn't he great?

MOTHER: Isn't he awesome?

FATHER: So I'm still thinking with my Altrusa buddy, can't we just kind of be a delegation to sing for the Pope? You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah, why not.

MOTHER: Sure.

FATHER: Fourth Degree.

MOTHER: Go outside Shop Rite, shake your little can and say, "We're trying to go sing for Pope Frankie," and see how much you get. Actually, pick a higher-end store. (laughs) It would get more money.

[ ] (crosstalk at 01:00:36)

THERAPIST: I should probably get the name of the person at the hospital.

MOTHER: I don't have his case worker's name her.

THERAPIST: So you can e-mail me that? And I have your permission to speak to the person?

MOTHER: Oh, my God, yes. [01:01:00] Speak away.

THERAPIST: They may ask me to fax the consent form, so I should probably find a consent form.

FATHER: We'll sign anything, Scott.

MOTHER: What happened to that nifty cool card you got the other day when we dropped that stuff off?

FATHER: I got a card?

CLIENT: 2 Yeah, you did. I thought you did. Let me look through here. Here we go. It's the only one I have, though.

FATHER: Just hold it and we can just copy it, maybe, photocopy it. I'm sick of carrying these Burger Kings around.

MOTHER: (chuckles) I guess that means that's where we're going for dinner.

FATHER: Put that in your pocket.

MOTHER: We'll do it for dinner. [01:02:01] It's only the back anyway. Oh – I looked all over for that yesterday.

FATHER: I know. I took it from where we were.

MOTHER: Oh, they're blank.

FATHER: Yeah. You lost yours?

MOTHER: No, I have the one we filled out and submitted.

FATHER: So you took that. Okay.

CLIENT: I took what?

FATHER: That Burger King ad.

CLIENT: Yeah, you just gave it to me a few seconds ago.

MOTHER: Visiting hours were – today is Thursday, right? They were 1:00 to 2:30 and the kids think it's 6:00 to 8:00 and it's not.

FATHER: I guess they'll find out.

MOTHER: Damn.

FATHER: Call her on the way home.

MOTHER: You better.

CLIENT: Why are they always changing the visiting hours?

FATHER: And what are they on Friday?

MOTHER: None on Friday.

CLIENT: When am I supposed to visit Gordon?

MOTHER: Tuesday and Sunday, 6:00 to 8:00.

CLIENT: When am I supposed to visit?

MOTHER: Thursday and Saturday, 1:00 to 2:30.

CLIENT: When am I supposed to... ?

MOTHER: Nothing on Mondays, nothing on Wednesdays, nothing on Fridays. [01:03:11]

FATHER: And we have 4:00 PM mass on Saturday?

MOTHER: Yeah, 4:30 mass. Screw Saturday. Visit him Saturday. (pause)

CLIENT: So siblings are screwed.

MOTHER: What?

CLIENT: So siblings are screwed, too.

MOTHER: Why are they screwed?

CLIENT: Because they couldn't visit.

MOTHER: I don't know. That's not what my pamphlet says.

THERAPIST: [I didn't think that was a signing thing] (ph?) that you can give me consent to speak to the people at State.

FATHER: Of course, yes.

MOTHER: We have one card.

THERAPIST: Let me write it down.

FATHER: Dora, do you want to sign this?

MOTHER: And I just found out there are no visiting hours today.

THERAPIST: Morgan, why don't you sign since you're part of the family, technically, as well.

MOTHER: That's the other thing, after 37 years of marriage he doesn't like my Bolognese sauce.

THERAPIST: Oh, gosh. No wonder. Now you've . . .

FATHER: I don't think there's any way to work back from that.

THERAPIST: (laughs)

MOTHER: What's that about my brother?

THERAPIST: Just saying that you're fine with me talking about what's happening with the family, talking with Gordon.

CLIENT: I know this is none of my business, but what are those other signatures besides mine?

THERAPIST: Your mom and your dad.

MOTHER: Daddy and me. Don't you recognize it?

THERAPIST: It's saying "I hereby give Dr. [consent to speak to any involved person from Norristown State regarding coordinating treatment of Gordon [Severn] (sp?).

CLIENT: Sorry I've got such bad handwriting.

THERAPIST: No problem.

FATHER: Emily mentioned maybe she was going to try to get him transferred to a lesser hostile, scary environment.

MOTHER: Of course I'm scared.

THERAPIST: Yes. Of course it scares you. How about the one, further north?

FATHER: I don't know. Is that near the... ?

THERAPIST: I know they even take psychiatrists there.

FATHER: It's not near that scary monument, is it? [01:05:04]

THERAPIST: No.

FATHER: Every time I pass by it I'm saying a Hail Mary and doing a cross because it's terrifying.

MOTHER: Oh, I know where that is.

THERAPIST: Is there a person's name here?

MOTHER: No.

THERAPIST: Just a phone number. You'll e-mail me with the name?

MOTHER: Yes, as soon as I get it.

FATHER: If I can get the name.

FATHER: It might be much easier if you call the hospital and identify yourself.

MOTHER: Casey, give me your cell phone.

FATHER: Identify yourself and they may give you the name.

THERAPIST: Okay. And then this will be authorizing for the taping.

FATHER: Oh, yeah. Are we being taped here. Can I say goodbye? Thank you very much and learn from it.

END TRANSCRIPT