TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Barbara went abroad and is coming back on Wednesday. Tomorrow is the election. (laughs) I feel like there's all sorts of stuff going on. There is math, which I am always somewhat stressed about or somewhat pleased about. I don't know. I'm tutoring this girl who lives near me. [00:00:59] I'm tutoring her in pre-calculus, so that has its own story. Sebastian Vettel started last yesterday because he qualified third. He's leading the championship for F1. The Grand Prix is in Abu Dhabi and qualifying third he stopped on the track because his engineers told him to stop. The rule is you have to have a liter of gasoline in your car to be tested after qualifying, well he had a few tablespoons short of a liter, which meant he had to start at the very back in the pits. Everyone starts the race and he's in the pits and after everyone goes he goes, so he started 22nd or 24th and came in third. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. Unheard of. [00:01:56] Typically in Formula One there is plenty of moving. A lot of things are dictated by where you start. There is jockeying plus or minus two or three. To gain all those spots was pretty impressive. It was dramatic. Patriots did not play, so it's nice to have a bit of Sunday without any strife. I always want to use the word "cathexis," is that right? Sort of how you use [a strong,] (ph?) is that right? That's where this certain adrenalin attachment, is that right? So it was nice to have a Sunday off from that.

THERAPIST: Although there will be no [...] (inaudible at 00:02:42) today.

CLIENT: That's right.

THERAPIST: A freed-up libido.

CLIENT: That's it. So I did math instead. I went over to MIT and studied. Normally I do it on Saturday. I have study group so instead I was free to do it yesterday. (pause) [00:03:06]

THERAPIST: Yeah, what's been...?

CLIENT: I'm showing the house tomorrow. I got a text saying that they want to show it, so this evening when I get back from school I need to clean. I put away things, right? Sort of always that sense of making things anonymous. So I said yes because I will have to clean anyways for Barbara coming back on Wednesday.

THERAPIST: How long has she been away?

CLIENT: Almost two weeks.

THERAPIST: Oh, that's right, because I think last time we met you had taken her. [00:04:02]

CLIENT: It's weird because when she's away, as I've said before, on the one hand, there is a certain freedom because I'm not worried about rocking the boat in some sense. But on the other, I have to make a point of somehow maintaining myself in a certain way because there's not somebody that's around that I'm responding to; and I can go a period of time without talking, so I have to make sure that I get out and do stuff and talk on the phone. [00:04:54] I taught on Thursday night, and I called to confirm to the woman that organized it, but she said, "We're going to have to change the location. My son died last night." I'd never met her, but it's strange to me to call somebody... anyway. My boss has known her for 30 years. He was abroad, so he didn't know what was happening. So what do you say? It's sort of a reminder of I don't know. That and, of course, it happens all the time in life. That and then the Sandy happening and just sort of the fact that you never know. [00:06:01] Barbara reminds me of this all the time, working in intensive care, young people who seem perfectly healthy who have lots going on and, all of a sudden, they get blindsided with something and die. She just had a patient like that, a 45-year-old father of two. He got a cut somehow. Didn't even think of it; and somehow something got into his system and took over, and that's it. (pause) Yeah, so there is that, not that that has profoundly affected me, it's just sort of one of those things where, all of a sudden, on the heels of watching the effects of Sandy and watching the drama of the people affected and also how it has introduced this very intriguing element into politics. [00:07:07] Also probably just the thought of a person losing everything. Anyway. So the storm is over. I called to confirm and then was told this. It was sad.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's a reminder that some sort of catastrophe can happen at any moment.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And then I watched this film. We have Netflix now. We hadn't had Netflix forever, but now we have this smart TV where it's just easy. It's just a little app, Netflix and bam there you are. [00:08:00] It is so much preferable to regular cable in many ways. Not really, because we have Showtime and HBO and all of that stuff, but Netflix is massive. [00:08:14] I watched this film and it was called Anatomy of Hell and it's by this French woman director. It was 2005-ish I think it was made. It's just two characters. It was this man, played by Rocco Siffredi, a porn star who is Italian and speaks French, and then this woman. I did not know who she was, but it turns out she does all kinds of things. French films have a certain kind of whatever. I don't know how to describe it. [00:08:57] She wants to be observed. She wants to know how men see her, so she hires this guy. The two characters are just it's the man and it's the woman. That's how they're described in the credits, the man and the woman. She invites him to come to her house because she is intrigued with the fact that he seems to be, somehow, unaffected by women. He's confident, he has no problem getting women and, therefore, he's not eagerly trying to find any woman in particular. She somehow knows this about him so she invites him to her house. She says that she would pay for everything, she just wanted to be watched. [00:09:58] He shows up and learns that her house and is very removed. It's on the shore right on the cliffs, so the ocean is always crashing. It's very sparse, but it's a big sort of country house, in a way two stories. You don't really see much, but the bedroom is just a large bedroom. It's rustic and just a single iron-frame bed. There's an attached bathroom, but it's all rustic. He shows up in a white suit, a linen suit, and walks in and said, "I wasn't expecting to have to take a train and then a cab. I didn't know you live so far away." She said, "Don't worry. I'll pay for it." [00:10:53] And then she invites him upstairs. She is standing there and he sits down on a chair and looks at her and he said, "Do what you normally do." She takes off her clothes and just lies in bed and he just watches her. He stands up and walks out, goes to the kitchen, pours a glass of scotch, sits down, and just watches. This happens for four consecutive nights. It's kind of like My Dinner With Andre, except without as much conversation; and it's really about the tension between men and women. What happens is they talk. She talks a lot about what it's like to be like that, lying there. [00:12:02] He just observes and then periodically will look over and just sort of explore her in this very sort of curious, non-porn way, right? There's just this sense of a guy being curious, but also being afraid in some way, like she's this unknown thing. What happens is he becomes what you feel at least is that he becomes increasingly sad and a little unnerved because she tolerates whatever exploration, and yet doesn't seem to feel much. [00:13:02] And yet, she sort of welcomes it, but it becomes clear that she doesn't really need him in this obvious way, physically perhaps; so there's a sense of her being this endless emptiness. She says, "Men are afraid of women because our bodies invite cruelty. They invite violence." And, again, he just sort of sits there, sort of absorbing that without really reacting. She says, "You want to take care of us, but we don't ask you to. You don't ask and you want to somehow hurt us and kill us." [00:14:07] It's a statement of her being aware of that; him hearing it. And then, at the end of these scenes again, four nights at the end she's asleep and it's four in the morning or whatever, and he'll go out and he'll just stand at the cliffs just looking at this ocean. You can't help but make a comparison between whatever she is and this just sort of endless, rhythmic crashing; and it's just this abyss. So I guess in that sense, it draws on certain existential notions, I suppose. [00:15:01] (pause) So I left that film feeling like (pause) I get them, you know? (pause) [00:15:57] I don't know what more to say to that.

THERAPIST: What else? Yeah what did you...?

CLIENT: Just that sense of sometimes you look for something in a woman. I guess there's that, there's the romance, whatever that attachment is; and yet sometimes and I've always felt this. I guess I remember feeling it at 17 with Morgan, that sense of there just being this void, just there. It's almost like there's this chasm. [00:17:00] It's like whatever hope or whatever you put onto them, part of that is the romance that women like, in the sense of having that attention, of being desired; but beyond the desire is mortality. It's just emptiness. They're a person. It's just the fact in my mind I just think, "They have two X's. I'm an X and a Y." It's just a 50-50 thing. I'm a guy. [00:18:00] I'm thinking, "What is this thing that is desire and what am I looking for?" I mean they're just a human being, right? And yet, somehow, there's this notion of them being magic and knowing something and (pause) not being able to confirm that they don't.

THERAPIST: Not being able to what?

CLIENT: Not being able to confirm that they don't have that magic or that they don't know something, just not having that doubt at times, feeling like they really are just this person. [00:18:48] There is this sense of (pause) this earthiness of this cyclic nature of whatever is happening hormonally and that they can give life and they are, in many ways, whatever their personality is, seems to be a response to their bodies, which they didn't ask for and, yet, that is the way it is. There is something (pause) frightening about that. I think whatever this woman said while lying on the bed, whatever this director was doing, captured something captured that sense of envy, (pause) excited by wanting to do violence to, disgusted by, in love with all of these things, which is such a potent (pause) thing. [00:20:11] It's like where does it come from, right? Little boys and little girls. It's like, well, at one point is there a difference? There's a picture of Barbara at five, when she's sitting on this wall, this stone wall. It's in a garden with a bunch of flowers. It's this public garden. She's just sitting there in this little blue-plaid skirt with white hose and a white ruffled shirt underneath and her brother is sitting there. He's only two years older in these little dress pants and dress shoes and dress shirt. [00:21:03] She's got this brilliant, bright red hair and this white, white skin. She looks like she's about to she sort of looks as if she's the sort of kid that you can tell, even though she looks like a girl, is keen to go beat somebody up. (chuckles) She just has that sort of energy about her. It's like she's trying to sit there. You can tell she's restlessly wanting to get out of her dress. I'm thinking, "Well that's not the Barbara I know." She jokes, "Yeah, I didn't get cheekbones until I was 20. I was the ugly duckling." Now she's not that at all. (pause) [00:22:03]

So at what point did she sort of take hold of whatever this mystery is and become the object of absorbing whatever men inject women with in terms of fantasy or conception? I know I'm using those words "injection" and "conception," but I'm not meaning that in those senses, obviously, although I'm aware of the fact that those words mean something else. But the sense of somehow they are filled up with whatever our potent sort of desire is and whatever our notion is of women, they have to somehow they are the screen for that. You can trace it all the way back and, in my case, I would say it's a girl sitting on a wall with crazy red hair who looked like she wanted to get out of the dress and go fight. [00:23:12]

THERAPIST: She didn't want to be that at all. (laughs)

CLIENT: She didn't want to be that. (laughs) And she'd talk about it. She's funny about it. She tells these stories. She would spend summers on this farm, her grandfather's farm, which was a few miles away. She and her brother were there and she talked about all the chores and how much they liked being there. Sometimes they'd get really bored and then she would look at Brett and she would say, "Let's go fight the city kids." I was like wow. That's not my childhood, right? When I was bored, I wasn't like, "Grrr. Let's go and get in a fight." It was sort of like, yeah, that was a perfectly good thing to do, right? [00:24:02] I'm thinking, "That's not feminine," or whatever my ideas are. So I keep returning to this, this whatever this film has imposed, and it really focused something in my mind on this idea of (pause) what is the true nature of things beyond my projection, I guess, for lack of a better word. [00:25:00] (pause)

THERAPIST: What is...?

CLIENT: What it means is, I suppose in a very positive sense, that beyond this sort of scripted notions of gender, I could actually talk to her or any woman about "who are you?" not what I think you are who are you? [00:26:13] Somehow it's like I don't resist whatever you think I want you to be because I don't know. I mean I have a program, perhaps, that wants you to be a certain way, but that's my own thing, too.

THERAPIST: As opposed to being a receptacle to want to be man's fantasy of what they are? Who are they beyond that? Who are they outside of that past that or something? [00:27:00] (pause) What were you...?

CLIENT: (pause) You know it's not an unfamiliar feeling. Now, again, it goes all the way back to being a teenager and having this almost vertigo/horror at the idea that they're just a person and that there's this mortal being there; and that there isn't any internal magic or mystery. There's a person. [00:27:58] The person can get all dressed up and wear perfume and adorn themselves in all kinds of ways, but you strip all of it away and taking all of that away does not make them unattractive by any means. What it does do is it does take away the whatever that is that makes a person do all of that for oneself, for the other, because the expectation or whatever is just gone. (pause) [00:28:55] You just see someone who, there is a sense of... after a certain familiarity, you sense when you can have those moments where you're not seeing them as this sexual being. You can have hours where you're just sort of looking at them and they're not this sexual being so beyond them being this sexual person, what are they? (pause) [00:29:58] I don't mean to make the very obvious point and make some sort of cultural comment, but it is the sense that I feel trained just in terms of media and fashion to see women in that way, and that's not a way I'm into. That's it. That's sort of a tired subject, I suppose, because it's political and it fills up departments of study in many books and so forth. It is interesting that that's the case, that my reflex is to look at women first and primarily as these sexual beings. I don't look at them and think "political being," "moral being." [00:31:01] I do see moral; that's the sexual aspect. I don't look and think "citizen." Somehow in my mind I think, "Yeah. They're a person. Of course they're a person, but but what?" Of course, no woman would want to hear me say that, but what? But you're a human being that I don't really get, right? You're a human being that is somewhat mysterious and (pause) again, another sort of tired phrase, but true whether it's in romantic comedies or serious tones what do women want? Who are women? Where are they? What do they want? [00:32:03] I'm not sure they do, either, but neither do I. I feel like the pressure is on them because it's sort of like apparently, as a guy, perhaps I am simpler at least that's what I'm told or more predictable; so maybe not simple, but more predictable. You do your math, right? You have domains and ranges and domains and co-domains and functions and images of functions. You plug something in and you get something out, and so when you define a function you have to be very clear about the allowable input because sometimes something is just not defined. It doesn't work. [00:33:09]

Looking at women I'm thinking I'm not even sure what even the function is in terms of the rule, right? I mean certain emotion in, certain emotion out. I don't know. What are the allowable inputs? It's like I don't know. Mysterious in the sense of you're not sure exactly what the domain allowable sort of things in-out are. They're experiencing the world the same way we are, but what gets in? Or somehow are they like snakes and they can see infrared? I mean, are they getting more information? Like men take in integers, they take in all real numbers. They take in rational numbers. [00:34:11]

THERAPIST: Yeah do you have a sense of what they take in? What they want?

CLIENT: I don't know; but I feel like it's like a woman's intuition, right? It's this sense sort of like for a guy (chuckles) is it the case that somehow I take in just a smaller set of things? I just don't perceive them, perhaps, or maybe they're just attuned to certain things. I don't know. And I don't know, but somehow there's that feeling of "they know."

THERAPIST: Almost like they' think more broadly? There's a broader range of...? [00:35:02]

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe it's more subtle things because, that's the thing, it's like sometimes Barbara will do things and I'll be like, "Where in the hell did that come from?" And I'm thinking we experience the same world and yet I'm feeling boop and then she's like man, did I miss something? What got in that she's reacting to? Maybe I am the domain. I'm the source of all input.

THERAPIST: That you're the one putting in...?

CLIENT: Maybe I'm the bad input. Me ignoring her is the input and anger is the output. I know I'm being simplistic, but there is truth in that. But then the sense, too, of this source of and we talked about this before, too this sense of (pause) I don't know. [00:36:15] It feels to me, with some exceptions, especially with Barbara, that it tends to be like everything is centered around her and the home and everything is sort of selfish. So you both do what is best for the family. You talk about that. Who cares about the rest of the world? (pause) [00:37:02] This image I've said this before I have this image of these women going in one of these big SUV's, windows rolled up, a perfectly nice day, and they're driving along talking on the cell phone. It's like they are going to the world but they are in this insulated thing and they are absorbed with whatever they happen to be talking about. It's sort of like, "I don't care about the rest of the world. I'm in this and I don't want any other attention. I know there are cars on the road, but I'm in this thing and I am focused on my own life." Right? Whereas me, I always go through life feeling utilitarian, right? Looking around. How can I be helpful as a driver? I'm driving the speed limit. I'm staying in my line. That's a good thing to do. Be courteous. Be assertive if you need to be assertive. Use your signal. We're living in a society so we try to do the right thing. [00:38:01] I'm thinking big picture. I feel like the image of that SUV and the windows rolled up and if you're on the cell phone, that is not the concern; not the concern outward looking out at the rest of the world, it's about her and what's going on with her and what's going on with people in her life and what is she talking about. And somehow there is this sense that she wants to look good and she wants to appear good, and so she's sort of on display. Does not invite the attention zipping along. And it feels like this very self-contained thing that I don't like, obviously, based on my tone. [00:38:59]

THERAPIST: Wow. What is it about?

CLIENT: Yeah, what is it? Well, it excludes me, for one. But also when Barbara drives and she is a good driver the sense of she's on a mission. That's the thing. It's really single-minded. I gotta get home because there are things to do; and everyone else is a jackass because they're somehow on the roads. Meanwhile, no matter how focused (chuckles) I might be, I'm aware of like lots and lots of people and we're all just getting along and we're all just like cells and capillaries where it's just like du-dut, du-dut, du-dut. You just sort of behave and be a good blood cell. It's a big, broad world and people are [...] (inaudible at 00:39:54) things and they're interested in other people who are driving like, "What are they up to?" And they make up stories. Who are they? [00:40:01] I generally try to put a positive spin on it and be forgiving. Like if a person is a bad driver, make up stories about why they might be a bad driver. What's going on? Whereas her, generally everything is pretty irritating and she just wants to get from point A to point B. Meanwhile, she wants to not always but there's a sense of, when I'm driving she's on the phone talking to Stephanie or she has to get home because she has to do something or... There's always this sense of what she's going to do. It feels like it sort of revolves around not even that. It's in the same way that black holes absorb everything into them. [00:41:00] It's not the black hole's fault. It's what black holes do, but there's a sense of (chuckles) like attention just sort of goes in that direction and that's just who she is, but I feel often the case of how women have been exceptions but not Barbara because she's single and she's a Buddhist and she's politically active. She's a Bu-Jew so it's like she's not part of the worrying, nail polish, driving-an-SUV, wanting to look nice. She's the opposite of that. [00:41:58] She has a weird feeling like, "Who are these women who dress like that?" to which Barbara is always wondering why she can't find a man and I'm like, "Well, you have a thing about being like that. You don't want to shop at that store. You don't want to do things to your nails. You don't want to wear anything other than running shoes. That's fine, be who you are, but if men are looking for a feminine woman, you're not playing that part." She goes, "I don't want to play that part." I said, "Well." (pause) I don't know. [00:43:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah, what's that?

CLIENT: (pause) She and Barbara are quite different from each other and they don't get on very well. Barbara doesn't like Barbara and Barbara, I think, feels intimidated by Barbara and her sort of strong personality and the way she looks.

THERAPIST: What does Barbara kind of look like? How does she kind of make herself up, dress, appearance-wise?

CLIENT: (pause) [00:44:02] She's working so she just starts the day in scrubs and ends in scrubs, so there is that. And then, if we're not going out, which apparently is never since we never go out so says her then it's her lulu-lemon yoga pants and some workout top that, I guess, is also lulu-lemon.

THERAPIST: A tank top?

CLIENT: A tank top. And then running shoes. She puts it on, she goes to the gym and then she does errands. She goes shopping and that's sort of how she appears. When she actually goes, of course when she goes on a plane, so I take her to the airport. On the plane it's always the same thing. [00:45:03] Well, it's probably not exactly the same. I make that as a disclaimer, because I feel like she'd probably say, "I'm not wearing the same thing." It looks similar to me. Dark jeans, the dark jeans due jour, and these Prada boots with high heels and some dark top. Her hair is pulled back and she wears gold, thick hoop, little nugget-like earrings. She looks great, so I feel like when I take her to the airport, she looks great. I pick her up at the airport, she looks great. We go out and it's a dress or whatever, and she always looks great. [00:46:03] (pause)

THERAPIST: It sounds like a bit sophisticated, feminine...

CLIENT: Absolutely, and very dramatic.

THERAPIST: It is, it is, it's got to be. I'm thinking like the Prada boots.

CLIENT: It's dark, but also she really is, she really has these great features, so she really is. When she's dressed up she looks really stunning. So it's that sense, right? When we go out people are looking, but I've gotten used to it.

THERAPIST: She draws attention.

CLIENT: Not only is it her face, but it's unusual to see someone with red hair like that, white skin, red hair, but no freckles. [00:47:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I was thinking that's the kind of magical side there. When you see her in scrubs and the lulu-lemons, as well, there's something...

CLIENT: Yeah, and the scrubs I like. The scrubs I like because then things are usually amicable because she comes back and I make dinner. She has a beer and she has a cigarette on the back porch. Then she changes and puts on her robe and then we eat and, typically, everything bad happens when she's in her lulu-lemons because that's when she's actually doing stuff. That's like when you go to the gym. That's when you do errands. That's when you clean the house. That's when you do all kinds of stuff. That's when you get annoyed with Sean and pick fights. [00:48:00] That's the action gear, you know? (both chuckle) So on days off, man, if we're not going out, yoga pants and running shoes and ready to kick ass. You'd better watch out. (pause)

THERAPIST: What a blend, though. What a blend of different sides of her you experience. I know the night out and taking her to the airport is kind of this rarity, but the scrubs and then the lulu-lemon. I was just thinking about how this different kind of experience of her goes together to you. What is there that you feel towards her and see in her that's different from the desire that you have, these other features? [00:49:19]

CLIENT: I don't know. It is three Barbaras, so when she's in her scrubs in the morning she's in a hurry, but there's a routine to things. Twenty-five minutes from get up to leave, right? There's a whole routine to that. In the car at 6:15. At the end of the day, perfectly fine in the sense of she's been in that mode. She's happy to see me because I'm not someone who's dying. I'm not some annoying nurse who doesn't know what she's doing that she somehow has to deal with, but she's tired. She's pleased to see me because she knows there's going to be a good meal waiting, so there is all that; and a beer and a cigarette. Mondays and Tuesdays, Dancing with the Stars. And the airport it's a sense of ah, she's not going to see me for two weeks and she's missing me and she's concerned that I'm going to be okay so great concern. [00:51:00] And then when I pick her up I'm very happy to see her. There's a sense of anxiety because I know that I've got to bring her back into life. (pause) I don't know. So she comes back and she's been in travel mode and then she's back and she's happy to be back. Yeah, it's the yoga-pants Barbara because that's not the happy-to-see-Sean Barbara, it's not the happy-to-be-off-of-work Barbara, it's the Barbara that pretty much does it's the Barbara that's not going to work and it's the Barbara that's not getting off the plane. It's the Barbara that's being the sort of 60 percent-of-what-Barbara-is Barbara. [00:52:12]

THERAPIST: [...] (inaudible at 00:52:13) 60 percent of the time. I was just thinking that in a way you sort of started by saying that "when she comes home she's happy to see me" and you kind of slipped in there that "because she's got a good meal waiting." It made me start to wonder about your sense of where her heart is for you. It made me wonder about I was thinking in some way that the airplane and taking her to the airport, you got a better sense of that. "She's going to miss me. She cares about me. She wonders how I'm going to do." When you pick her up there may be that, too. [00:52:55] But where is her heart in that 60 percent lulu-lemon time? What is she feeling? (pause) From your description, I get a sense of a kind of coldness, if that's the right word, just an objectivity or some sort of businesslike approach.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I didn't mean to imply that. I mean that exists at some level, at some point. I think no I symbolize "home" and feeling like she's going to go home and it's a nice place to be; and it's nice because (pause) it's I was going to say because "I'm there", but it's not really that. [00:54:21] It's just the whole thing, right? It's just the phenomenon of leaving work and being able to come home and knowing that the [...] (inaudible at 00:54:28) home is that I actually have cared enough to make something nice and didn't throw it together. So that's part of it. It's me being able to say that I care for her and that I care enough that we will have something good. It's not compartmentalized I don't think. I don't think it's that, but there is something in terms of there being awkwardness or tension or me being aware of the fact that she lives in this world for 12 hours, and that I'm the first person she sees; and that, all of a sudden, I feel a certain amount of expectation put on me to offer something different meaning she's on her feet going like crazy for 12 hours and doesn't have a chance to eat half the time and has to make nuclear decisions; and then it's like on the ride home on the J-Way just sort of like phew. [00:55:57]

THERAPIST: I got the sense that the days when she's off of work and the scrubs Barbara, it seems like the way you described it was almost she feels like receptive whore, wanting to be cared about, willing to take a break and relax and unwind. I was thinking about the lulu-lemon stage.

CLIENT: That's the thing. That's it exactly. Scrubs Barbara likes being taken care of. Airport Barbara is romantic and sentimental, but lulu-lemon Barbara yeah, you never know what you're going to get. (pause)

THERAPIST: What do you feel between you two during those?

CLIENT: [00:56:57] (sighs) Yeah, I don't know. There is a sense, too, of -more you watch movies you whatever, the truth is like, "Oh, yeah. That's just a stereotype woman." You can just do things. So I cut my finger.

THERAPIST: Problem is over.

CLIENT: I'm chopping onions. I can't remember the last time I cut myself, but I have this big cleaver and onions, because I'm making this Turkish [dolma] (ph?) while I'm talking to Barbara. So it's bad. It's a really bad cut, so hot water, warm water, get it to bleed, get it to bleed, get it to bleed, cold water, cold water, cold water, cold water. A couple of minutes of cold water and it's still bleeding. Wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up. This is Saturday night. So all of Saturday night, Sunday and today I have the bandage because I don't want to get it stitched and I don't want this thing getting wet. [00:58:01] So I tell Barbara today. "I'm going to have to change the bandage." I said, "Yeah, but I don't want it getting wet." She says, "You've got to wash it." I said, "The thing is I don't want to open the thing up." She goes, "No, you have to take off the bandage and you have to wash it." I said, "But it's clean. It was perfectly clean when I put the bandage on, so nothing has gotten in." She goes, "You've got to wash it every day." I said, "But I don't want to get it stitched. I just want that flap to be stuck," right? She goes, "I'm a nurse. We change bandages." It's like, yeah, I get that. You don't want wounds being dirty. It's not really dirty. Whenever I express that I've got something going on, like it hurts, she's like whoosh poke, poke, poke, poke. [00:58:57] I'm like, "Fuck, don't hurt me," (laughs) and that's what I said and in the back of my mind I'm like, "God damn, you do that with patients?" like poking and prodding and fluffing pillows, that's kind of nice, right? But it's not exactly the nurse fantasy because you (laughs)...

THERAPIST: The TLC.

CLIENT: The TLC. It's sort of like, "You bruised your knee? Huh? Huh?" It's like, "Yes, I bruised my knee."

THERAPIST: And it's an apt example of the lulu-lemon where she's in some way I imagine, a lot happens, a lot gets done, a lot gets taken care of; but with some sort of seriousness and businesslike with that.

CLIENT: Absolutely. And a lot of vinegar, right? Making phone calls, getting things done. They're just the customer service person and they need to be nice. It's their job and they better do it. [01:00:05] Just flip it. Just be nice and see... She says, "I'm not rude, I'm direct." I know you're direct, Barbara. (laughs) Anyway, so as I said before, I take care of all the condo e-mailing and texting because they like me. (laughs)

THERAPIST: There's a lot more honey.

CLIENT: There's a lot more honey, right? And I always make a point of being funny because, if you get the person to laugh and, yeah, they'll do it.

THERAPIST: But you get knocked around a bit about that time with her when she's in that business mode or let's-get-things-done mode.

CLIENT: Yeah, because if I don't keep up with that, then I'm seen as being somehow a slacker. Maybe I'm sensitive to that because, clearly, not working full-time I sort of invite that attention, so I don't have a lot of leeway. [01:01:03] You're talking about [...] (inaudible at 01:01:05).

THERAPIST: Yeah, and her take on that is quite convincing to you. Her sense of you "hey this is the way to do it" sort of has some hold over you.

CLIENT: Well, take this, in terms of "you've got to wash it" and I'm like, yeah, on the one hand; but it also is true, and I didn't want to get into an argument with her when she's 4,000 miles away or whatever England is but if you have surgery performed, you leave the bandage on and if you have a hernia operation, that's on for ten days. You're not peeling it off and cleaning it all of the time because you've gotten sliced all the way through. [01:01:59] I figure that sliced all the way through so, yes, you want clean bandages; but as long as everything is clean in the first place, just leave it to heal. I didn't feel like picking a fight with her. Yes, in general, you want to keep things really, really clean. But when things are really, really deep, you just put on the bandage and let things heal for a bit. I thought, "Well, okay. Fine. I'll just let her say it and then be happy that she said it," and she was able to give an answer which, even though I didn't ask her I mean I wasn't asking her advice on how to deal with a wound, I was just being commentary that I had dinner with Barbara and I cut the hell out of my finger.

THERAPIST: And she didn't say, I mean...

CLIENT: She didn't ask me, "Oh, my God. How is that... "

THERAPIST: I was wondering. I was wondering. Are you okay?

CLIENT: Nope, got to change the bandage. It's like, ugh. So, technically, all right. I mean I get that. [01:03:02]

THERAPIST: I guess that's the thing that I was thinking about. In some way, where is her heart at? And is it conveyed through these very on-topic questions. "Do you need me to change the bandage?" Is that the way she's conveying it? But it doesn't get through to you. It doesn't really land. It's hard to when she's telling you what to do and you're looking for I mean not even consciously but in some way kind of thinking, "It would be nice to say, ‘Oh, you poor thing,'" or whatever.

CLIENT: It would have been consistent that she asked what knife. What knife was that? I almost was anticipating her saying, "Oh, you shouldn't have used that knife. (both laugh) If you had used the other knife you wouldn't have cut yourself." (both laugh) [01:04:05]

THERAPIST: Well, listen, we'd better stop for today. Wow. Take care of the hand. When did it happen?

CLIENT: Saturday night. So today I went to shower this morning and I put on the ove glove and get the silk tape and tape it up so I don't get my hand wet because, that's the thing, right? You want the skin to adhere after it's been sliced, but you don't want water getting in there. You don't want the flap to separate because you want it to stick. You don't want it getting wet. It's a weird sensation washing my hair with a glove. I felt like I had an artificial hand. All right. See you.

END TRANSCRIPT