TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Here's this for you. It's not what I would normally want to give, but I'm waiting for money from my boss.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So that's something.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's fine. So, how are you?

CLIENT: Good.

THERAPIST: Yeah, good.

CLIENT: It's one of those days, I think where I was sitting in the car before coming in here, thinking okay, what...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What to say. Like, I feel like nothing is like normally, I feel like during the semester, I come in, there's always this level of... I always feel like there's a bit of strain because I'm always contemplating something which is difficult. There's always this thing in math that is taxing, but now I don't have that, which is not a bad thing. It's just that that is not present. [0:01:31.9]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah, so I'm not feeling I was listening to sports radio, so I'm just you know, I'm listening to the discussion and you know so that's where I'm at.

THERAPIST: Yeah. But then it means that you come in with a different kind of feeling or something.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean it's I don't know, it's sort of an in-between time I guess. I don't know, the last time I taught, which always perks me up and I'm always in a good mood. I like being able to just get up and go, it's great. I taught out in Sherborn and it was strange, because I felt like I wasn't really in it, like all of a sudden it was over, the class was over, and I thought, "Did I miss something?" I was like how did this only take a half hour, really like, it's like an hour. It's like well, I guess we did everything. You know, so I'm not really saying this out loud necessarily, but I'm just contemplating, thinking we're done? [0:03:32.2]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Like I felt somehow disembodied. I don't know, I wasn't fully connected to it, like it was taking effort to really feel like I was actually teaching. It just sort of, just sort of happened. So when I was leaving I thought, how odd? Like I was not connected, I was not impassioned. It just felt very dreamlike I suppose. It's funny, when I woke up and I forgot what the dream was, maybe it will come back to me when I'm about to go to sleep tonight, but I woke up and thought, "That would make a great movie, how perfect is that, I should write that down." I often feel that way, thinking okay, that I could be pitching movies. (chuckles) I'm sure everyone who has dreams feels that way, but who remembers them. [0:04:56.9]

The car has been an issue. The ah, three weeks ago, I was sitting there and then this big red display came up, which never happens. Usually the thing is in amber, and this was red, and it said, "voltage low, battery, go to workshop." And then, like the thing started flashing, like I had the heat warmers on, and the lights started blinking and the radio went off. I'm thinking, this is not good. And I had the car running, just waiting to get enough heat. Then we get in the car and we it was Christmas Eve, so Christmas Eve was when it was. Supposed to be driving and the power steering was just like errrrr errrrr, like it's going, right? So also, when a car is strained, you really feel it. So I pull over to the side of the road, it's Christmas Eve and I had all this planned, you know, to be romantic, a nice dinner, so you know? But instead it was me waiting around for AAA. So, it was the alternator. [0:06:23.4]

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: And so that's failing, mm-hmm. And then last week, driving, taking an off ramp down into Forest Hills, all of a sudden the same display came up and all of a sudden the power steering just wouldn't. What the hell? Brand new alternator. So that's the display, I'm like okay, well, the car is running. I don't know how long it's going to run, but I can try to it's rush hour too, right? I'm thinking okay, this is going to be really, really bad if the car breaks down, because this is in a really bad place to break down. It's going to kinds all kinds of havoc traffic wise. I was in the near lane, where I normally would be, and I'm thinking okay, should I what do I do, there's no place to go. So, I was just maintaining and I'm just thinking, okay the engine is going to possibly cut out. So I'm thinking well, turn right, just keep going, like if you have to stop, at least you're in the right lane. I take a left to get home and I thought well, I want to get to the mechanic, I have to take a left and so far, I guess I'll just try to take a left. I take a left, errrrrr, take a right, at that point, a decision. I can try to go uphill and get it home or I can drive straight to get to the mechanic. [0:07:44.3]

I make it to the mechanic, they open the hood, the whole belt is off. So then, my questions is why is the belt off? And so it's the water pump that's making this errrrrrrr sound, so it's about to fail, which is a wearable item, all right, so it's been replaced initially. And then this thing called the tensioner, was seething out. Anyway, so that was $900. So, $1800 in less than three weeks.

THERAPIST: Wow, you got pinched, yeah.

CLIENT: So, that creates tension, because of course, Barbara has to foot the bill for most of this, right?

THERAPIST: Ah-huh.

CLIENT: And I feel ashamed because of that and I feel like it's my car, I should be able to fix it. And then there's a feeling like oh, it's a good car otherwise, I thought, but is this the beginning of something? But once those are replaced, because the front end, you know the accident, you know the whole front end is new, a new radiator. Everything is new, new, new. In the back, everything is new, new, new. So I've got all the new stuff here and now, it's like well what else? I mean, alternator, water pump, this tensioner, the fan is fine apparently, they checked it. It's like what else is ready to fail exactly? [0:09:19.3]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: So anyway, again, you know, don't give up the car. This is horrible that it's happened so quickly. The cold weather precipitates this, so these things do fail. It's usually around 100,000 miles, and you've gone further than that. The belt itself is fine. It just came off because the water pump had ceased.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: So like I was saying, you know, it's still a great car, it's just you have to get nailed with all these things at once.

THERAPIST: Ah-huh.

CLIENT: Anyway, so now I look at the car with you feel fragile when literally you can't you're thinking, like, I'm not mobile any more if I can't actually, you know. I had to leave the car at the shop and I caught the bus back home, you know, so that's part of my Thursday. And the feeling like I really, truly can't drive the car. They can put the belt back on but the belt will come back off because of the water pumper, or the water pump. So I'm thinking gees, how instantly, right? So now I'm catching the bus, I mean you have to make that choice, right? Because I had all the stuff in the car. It's like well, I can only carry some of the stuff, so I had two backpacks and sort of filled them up and was like wow. So then getting home and then having to, you know, tell Barbara, then it's that feeling like from her point of view, it feels like this never ends, with the car.

THERAPIST: She does? [0:11:03.4]

CLIENT: Yeah, she's like just, you know, let's get a new car.

THERAPIST: Ah-huh, ah-huh.

CLIENT: Which I don't want to do.

THERAPIST: Yeah. How is that for you?

CLIENT: Well, it's just it highlights an issue, right? Normally it's like well, I sort of float along, I keep my head above water, and then I'm not financially able to absorb a hit like that. So, it just all of a sudden, whatever my dithering is, is exposed, and there's a feeling of tension between her and me, and also the feeling of there's no escape either. Like if things get bad, it's not like I can just go hop in the car and drive off, because I can't, and unless she chooses to fix the car or give me the money to do it, I if I want to if things are bad and I need to bail and go and hang out, you know stay at Barbara's, her house, packing the bags and getting on the train. [0:12:33.3]

THERAPIST: Yeah, so you feel this kind of, yeah, trapped feeling or something.

CLIENT: Yeah, so then well, it's that, and then of course lately, I feel like well, okay, so I need to find work because you know, things will pick up with the first aid, so that will be good. Right now it's the slow time because of the holidays, so I feel like I have less of a buffer. So, and that's of course just you know, the system with that is it's not I need a full-time job. So then I go on Craigslist, which has this whole... You know, I think someone should probably write about this, if they haven't already, just like a psychological state that one enters when looking at Craigslist.

THERAPIST: If you're looking for work or just general?

CLIENT: Well, yeah, so looking for work, but also just you know, just the phenomena of looking at anything really. I guess if you're trying to buy something then that's a little more clear cut. It always feels like there's a scam right around the corner. It feels totally personal, on the one hand type a personal, because it's one on one, right? It's one person advertising and one person responding, and yet, you don't know who that person is. So, if you're buying a mountain bike, you certainly want to make sure to take a look at it and you know, a little bargain, it's fine, but it's an item. But for work... So, I go online and I am looking at all the stuff, and all these teaching positions, and most things that are advertising for teaching are preschool stuff. So it says teacher, then you click on it, and it's daycare, which, you know, is I can't think of anything further from my wheelhouse or skill set. That would drive me nuts. So, but you never know until you click on it, what's it going to be, because it says teacher and it's like huh. But then you see all this other stuff and then you like go to like biotech, and you look, and hey, I look and I think gees, like there's so much stuff, that I just don't even know what it is, like I'm totally not qualified. And there's all these sections for you know, high tech and sales, and sales will just be again, not something that I'm suited to. But I look and I think, I don't even know what this stuff is, like I'm not I don't have the experience, I don't have the training, I don't have any of those, so there's a feeling of looking for stuff, thinking gees, like I know how to teach, but as far as other stuff, I mean I can learn it. The fact is, I don't have the experience now, so that's a bummer, so it's just typical, it's a feeling of like, you feel rather alone. You feel like you're really on the outside, because in a big fantasy world, you think oh, I can do this, I can do that, something will happen. That's the feeling. It will work out, something will happen. You maintain a certain optimism, which is possibly a false optimism, but a sense of like eh. When you actually look it's like huh? [0:16:26.1]

Or you see stuff that you feel like oh brother, I mean to be, you know, they need bartenders, like oh, I don't drink other than beer, so that's not so I can't even do that. You know, they advertise for Stop & Shop. It's like, I don't know how to be a cashier. I mean, I could figure it out, but is that something I really want to invest time learning how to do, something I wanted to actually do?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And so I'm looking at it, thinking, you know, of these high school kids, you know that are whizzes, like they don't even look and just like ah... So there's these high end jobs I'm not qualified for and then there's these very "low end jobs," that I'm also not qualified for because I just flat out don't know how to do it. I don't know how to be a cashier and I also don't have any inclination for it, it's not like I'm aspiring to learn it. [0:17:29.1]

So, so here's so this was just sort of curiosity and Barbara laughed at this little and it is peculiar. So I thought well, rather than looking for things, I could simply just sort of post, right, I'll put up this thing for tutoring. And I made flyers to put around and hmm. Not that I'm feeling that inspired for it, I must say, but it's sort of like well, I guess I can, I can I can do that, and that seems...

THERAPIST: More, just because you'll have some work for the time being.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. It seems like it would be nice and be, you know whatever, I guess it's pleasant. So, I put these flyers and you know, just around, and I put it on Craigslist. So, I get this response from this guy named Nathan Mead. Now, when I hear the name Nathan Mead, I think of someone who is probably literature. I don't know why but somehow I think it's not like a foreign name. So, it says in things are oddly capitalized and he has a ten year-old daughter and he wants her to have math help. I wasn't expecting that, because I was thinking high school, college, right? And I think about you know, ten years old, that's fine, that's fine, you know, you've just got to keep it fun, right, for a kid, it shouldn't feel like work. So I write this very friendly e-mail saying, yeah, well we can you know, this is, if you've never hired a tutor, this is kind of how it works and here are other resources, and I tell him like, you know, there's things online that you as a parent can learn, and trying to be just generally helpful, to make them feel like I'm being transparent and if they still want a tutor. I'm sorry of saying, you don't have to pay necessarily, but if you want a tutor, then I'm available. Thinking about the search being all right, for them to I'm just making them aware of things that you can teach yourself. [0:20:10.7]

So then, I get this e-mail back and it's this very long e-mail, and again, things are sort of oddly capitalized, that primarily nouns, so I believe this person is foreign. So, the gist of it is, you know it was quite long, is that the daughter... He's in Europe, his daughter is coming to Waltham, and that he wanted me to meet with her three times a week for one hour, for four weeks, and that I would be paid upfront for the first two weeks, $300 a week. That was the upshot. So I thought that's strange, because I never actually said my rates, and so I would not be charging $100 an hour. But I thought, there was no mention of exactly why she's coming, which seems like an important detail, and most disturbing was he's never met me and all of a sudden I'm going to be he's 4,000 miles away and I'm going to be teaching his daughter? So I thought this is weird. [0:21:42.9]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So, and the more I thought about it I thought, is this some sort of weird setup, meaning like is being a tutor code for something, right? Is this some like is that sort of a legal way to have some sort of pedophile ring, like so you can't actually advertise, like looking for a ten year-old daughter, right? You sort of eh, a tutor.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: So I thought, is a cop writing this, is this sort of like, is it more of one of those situations? Or is it sort of a scam, like this offer is like you get the person hooked, like wow, that's great, how terrific is that, but then there's going to be a follow-up e-mail saying but in the meantime, and then there's going to be me weaseled down on the charge or something. So I don't know. So I write back this e-mail after thinking about it for a bit, and I thought okay, I have to write this as if a cop is watching, as if I'm writing to a cop, as if I'm in court, right? So I write back and I said, hello Nathan, I said please forgive me if this is impolite to write, but I must admit that I am very suspicious. I said, if you really do want tutoring, it would probably be best if I meet the host family, and then I can assess what they need and they can assess me as a tutor. And I said it strikes me as peculiar that you would have a daughter come all the way here when there are perfectly good tutors there, and it's unclear to me why she's coming to Waltham, that seems like a big detail to omit. I said perhaps there are cultural differences, there are expectations, but if you are still interested, then I would be happy to meet with the host family. [0:23:46.4]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: So that was two days ago and I have not heard anything since.

THERAPIST: That is kind of strange.

CLIENT: So, and then I thought well, I'll call the Tribune, I'll do like, sometimes you can just sort of look in Waltham and get a sense of like that's that, and I'm familiar with the city, but okay, you look at Craigslist and all of a sudden you have that lens. So I thought well, I'll look at Philadelphia for comparison, like how are things different. Is it more volatile or what, or more active on Craigslist.

THERAPIST: Oh, just the market?

CLIENT: Just the markets, they're more like when you look at part-time or et cetera, you know there are more sort of like, you know, female models from 18 to 22 needed, that sort of thing, right? So, I'm looking at that and then I see this one thing and this company, they need a woman with a British accent to do their messaging system, there's a whole, the tree; press one or press two, press three, blah-blah-blah. So I was joking with Barbara about and she goes, "E-mail them." (laughs) She goes, I would happily talk to them, I'll just talk in a microphone. So I e-mailed them and she hasn't gotten a response yet, although she does not have the perfect accent. I'm sure that they're not looking for her accent. [0:25:29.1]

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah?

CLIENT: They're looking for a plummy, Oxford accent and that's not what she has. She had a midlands accents, which is you know, sort of My Fair Lady before she was changed. Anyway, she could probably pull it off. So I look at that and then, I thought well, I'll look at Craigslist in Arizona, just so there's a good reference, and I also thought well, you know worst case scenario, I can go to Arizona if things get dicey with Barbara or I'm feeling although it's not, but there's a moment where I'm thinking gees, I kind of just want to go home and well, that would be all our conversation last week.

THERAPIST: Yeah, right.

CLIENT: So I'm looking at Arizona and I'm like oh my God, I mean a place like Philly or Waltham, right, there are, you know jobs, it's like a hundred postings a day per section, it's crazy, it's huge, and Arizona (laughs) is like one job in a couple of weeks. [0:26:41.0]

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: And that was, you know that was this manufacturing job, and then UPS was hiring but you had to apply in person. That doesn't help me. So then I thought well, there's nothing there, but just out of curiosity, I will just sort of, I will put my own thing up, right, under the resume section, and I'll put in my resume, just sort of putting out feelers to see what's up. So you know, I put up, you know, Massachusetts teacher considering relocation to Arizona to be near family, and I write a little description on it, and not knowing what to expect. Well, overnight, at 3:00 a.m., 3:23 a.m., so after midnight, so 12:23 their time, I get a response, a boilerplate, Sale! Sale! Sale! Doo-doo-doo, right, all this stuff, you know sales and this and make $4,000 a month. Looking at it and then at the end, I'm thinking what the hell, this is a robot, right? They had robots actually go through and respond to Craigslist. Anyway, so it goes all the way down and then the last thing it says, "No Wussies!" And I thought of responding back, thinking given what I wrote, do you think that that is really the thing I want to read? I mean you see science teacher and you think sales, but then you're responding to some jackass robot, you know? I though, yeah, sales? [0:28:42.0]

THERAPIST: Ah-huh.

CLIENT: You know? So it's interesting I suppose, looking at Craigslist, just all of the many things that are out there that and this, well, that just feel really unpalatable, and sales is right up there.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: So when I put it in that light, I felt like well, I mean teaching is the least objectionable kind of things within that, thinking well, what would I like to do? So I thought well, what I'd really like is not having to deal with the histrionics of crazy teenagers and then en masse, sort of in a classroom, but what I really liked doing was teaching GED, because you're teaching adults who really want to learn it and no one's making them show up to do it. No one's making them right? So they show up and actually are learning. [0:29:56.4]

And then I was watching Chopped, right? So I like the show Chopped on the Food Network, I don't know if you know the show.

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: So, Chopped is this really cool show, so the graphic is sort of flat, all caps, "CHOPPED," and in the middle, between the two Ps in chopped is this cleaver, and so it's a panel of three chefs and who the chefs are, are various to some degree, but there's sort of a stable of about six of them and they're all interesting and they're all restaurant owners. Then they have four contestants come on who are, you know, they have their restaurants or they're a sous chef, and what they do is they're given a basket of ingredients, and it's completely random, odd things. So they have to make an entrée, a main dish pardon me, an appetizer, an entrée, and then a dessert. So there are four, right, and they all compete in the entrée round, and then somebody gets chopped. [0:31:02.8]

THERAPIST: Somebody gets chopped?

CLIENT: Gets chopped right, (crosstalk). And they're not worthy to move on, someone has to get chopped. So the three compete in the entrée round and then two compete in dessert, and finally there is someone who is the Chopped champion.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay, huh.

CLIENT: And it's usually... There's a lot of ego. It's this very high adrenaline, macho sort of thing, whether it's men or women. It's this sense of of course, and there's an attitude that chefs have.

THERAPIST: No wussies, huh?

CLIENT: No wussies. So, Barbara and I watch this usually every I record them and then we'll watch that after eating dinner, because it is very pleasant, it's funny. So they had one on the other night where it was the four chefs were all nonprofit types. So you had a person who made food for kids after school, you had someone who made 20,000 meals a week, cater to the dietary needs of people who are really, really sick. You had these other two, who were also, you know, nonprofits, delivering meals to people who need it. And so they aren't these restaurateurs, they aren't young, they aren't these full of pride, you know, competitive types, but they're good. They're nice people and they make food for a lot of people, that's what it's all about. So, you know, it narrows down and finally there is a winner, and of course, you know, they have all these really good stories and they turn out making sort of good food. I was watching that and I thought that's interesting, there are two different types, right? There's the very ambitious young chef and I get that, right? I can feel that sort of competitive drive. [0:33:21.7]

THERAPIST: Ah-huh, yeah.

CLIENT: But then, the nonprofit types, who are just in there doing the hard work that's right, right? This is just right. I think, but there's that too, and it's sort of like two paths.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Right? So anyway, teaching GED, it's like well, it's not that's pretty much the opposite of the competitive world.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, no right.

CLIENT: It's nonprofit and it's really helping people, but it's not like that's a step in the direction of making a lot of money, although it's certainly more money then I've made in my field, because right now I make so minimal, so it's a job, right? But it's like, it's not like I'm jumping on a ladder, you know, to make money.

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah, yeah. [0:34:24.7]

CLIENT: So I'm really trying to self-assess and I'm thinking but I believe in that, and yet there is a built-in frustration with teaching, is that there is no rising up, I mean you do the job and that's it, that is the job.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: That is the job. Whereas working in a restaurant, right, you start out and you can be the humble busboy and you can be watching and you can be moving up and you know, the next thing you know it's like you go to culinary school and bam, it's like you're a chef and you have your own restaurant, and there's like a path. Hard work and talent, that's not how it works in teaching.

THERAPIST: Right, yeah. Yeah, and to work as a yeah, as you say, there's something about working as a teacher, maybe in any... As you're saying, like in any context, with a school or if it's GED, that it's not it feels like almost, even if it's fulfilling in some ways, on this other path, it's that it signifies something else on that path of ambition, of falling short of where you want to be. It's almost like you really face that right, immediately. I'm not what I want to be on that second path, I'm not where I want to be on that second path, yeah.

[PAUSE: 0:36:13.1 to 0:36:39.9]

CLIENT: I said to my mom, I said well, back in Arizona there is a gig, that they need a bartender from 9:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m., for some wedding in April. I said, I know nothing about that right, so it's great for somebody but it's odd. That's the random stuff you see on Craigslist. She said, because I said, I don't know anything about that. She goes, Dr. Spelling (sp?) in medical school he was a bartender. She goes, "He was a very smart man," and I said, "Yeah." She said and so she goes, "Well all the things he could have done, he realized that that's a good way to make a lot money." People like their bartenders and people tip. And I thought well, you know, fair enough, and I thought that's weird, she's thinking of Dr. Spelling, who's like quintessentially like mannered and wry and wire-rimmed glasses, and not gregarious. I'm thinking, Dr. Spelling, bartender? Anyway. [0:38:05.3]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: So, then I'm thinking like yeah, well, people do what they've got to do, and so then it's like well, I need to do what I have to do, yet I don't know what that is exactly. It's like I start thinking like well, bartending, that's totally foreign to me. So I read that on Craigslist and so then Barbara and I were at the bar next door, it was full, so we went elsewhere, and we're sitting at the bar, and I was looking at the bartender, because Barbara always gets two Pinot Grigios, and then she complains about not being able to sleep. I always have a margarita. So, I'm looking at the bartender thinking, maybe the bartender really does not want to be doing this at all and yet, the job is to be friendly. I'm thinking, if I were to be doing that, I'm thinking it's a massive switch. It's a massive switch from just sort of being passively observing, to actively inhabiting that role, because I've done that, doing temporary work, where you feel like I totally, totally don't want to be doing this. [0:39:48.4]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: I don't want this at all and yet, you're performing a function and it's a massive mindset, like it is constantly wearing, it is always wearing, because you feel like just this total false self. You know? It's like there's nothing real about this.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'm just performing this role. It's interesting, because going by the bar, you sit at the bar and there are there's the wait staff, and I was really contemplating, thinking, What if I were the wait staff? I've been a waiter. I've never been a bartender but I've done that, and like it felt so painful. [0:41:11.3]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: I'm actually deciding, like... Like in high school it felt fine, in high school it was fun, working at a sandwich shop, that was great.

THERAPIST: Oh, is that what you did?

CLIENT: That was excellent.

THERAPIST: I didn't know that.

CLIENT: Yeah, so that was fun, because it's like, you know, you're out of the house, you're making money and you close up the place because you've become like the assistant manager, and so you're there by yourself.

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: So it was fun, right? Patrons come in, you make sandwiches, and like you know it's cool. It's like old school, with bread and vinegar.

THERAPIST: Oh, I didn't know that.

CLIENT: So I was a waiter there.

THERAPIST: I didn't know that.

CLIENT: And there's always this upside, right, so you have to know the wine list. I do not know wine, I barely know beer, but meanwhile, I'm going through my Leo Tolstoy phase and I'm like this is all shit, I'm socialist inside. I'm feeling like, you know. [0:42:11.6]

THERAPIST: You're part of the problem.

CLIENT: That's right, that's right. You know, Tolstoy regretting having written Anna Karenina, and War and Peace, and he just wanted to live on a commune. So I was of that mindset and I'm thinking I can't... The more expensive wine they buy and the more I talk bullshit about the descriptions of the wine, that there is for me in terms of tips. It annoys the hell out of me that they're going to order this very expensive bottle of wine. So, that pains me, contemplating, contemplating that.

THERAPIST: Selling, yeah.

CLIENT: And Barbara said, she goes, "Oh, you should apply at Bloomingdale's or Neiman Marcus, be a salesman." Because I used to sell clothes when I was in college.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah, it's haberdasher. [0:43:18.9]

THERAPIST: I remember you telling me that, yeah.

CLIENT: So, you know, but again, when you're, you know, 21, it's fun, because all of a sudden it's like oh, you can have nice clothes and you sell nice clothes. And even still, it irritated me, it was at least interesting, because it was new to me, it was a new world.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Finding out and learning about clothing. So, she goes, "Apply to Bloomingdale's, apply to Neiman Marcus." So I go on Bloomingdale's website, and I had no intention, I'm like I so don't want to be in that world.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: (laughs) Just going in there, because Barb's going in there to look at something, and I mosey up into the men's department, it's like what a pain in the ass, how lame is this? Who shops here? Who buys underwear at Bloomingdale's? Doesn't everyone go to TJ Maxx, and you buy Calvin Klein underwear, get a little like three pack for eleven bucks. Do people really go to Bloomingdale's and spend sixty bucks on a single pair? Who does that? But some people must, because they think it's better or they don't have the time and they have personal shoppers, and it's like really? And I told you about J.D. Drew's store, didn't I? [0:44:50.1]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So there's that, TJ Maxx, and he's buying underwear at TJ Maxx, and I'm like of course you do, you know, you make $18 million a year, and it's like it doesn't occur to him to go to Bloomingdale's, because who goes to Bloomingdale's to buy underwear? It's like of course you go to TJ Maxx, or Marshall's or whatever. Anyway, people do. You know, and the whole Polo section, it's like really? You buy Polo shirts at Bloomingdale's for $120 a shirt, when you know darn well, you can go to Job Lot and buy them for $6 on discount, I mean really. But it's that whole culture, and so then Barb's like go to Bloomingdale's. So I go to the website and they need a men's stylist, strange, of course that's a salesperson, you know, and you have to keep this rolodex of sorts, right, because it's all about contacting your customers and developing this, you know, developing this client list. [0:45:58.6]

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: It's like well of course you do that at Bloomingdale's, that's you know, of course that's the way it is. But it's like do I want that to be what I do, trying to sell clothing? I don't believe in that. Do I believe in teaching the GED? Absolutely.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: So... it's a bit deflating and frightening and whatever conflation of those moods are, feelings are, looking and thinking waiter? Working at Bloomingdale's? Or looking at these high tech things and I have no clue what those are, I am not trained. You know, you can talk into a microphone, it's like there's all these things, and what it focuses me on is well, what do I really want and where are my actual choices, not my fantasy choices, what are my actual choices? [0:47:20.4]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Because then you look online, people who like want to be math tutors, and it's like well, you know, people are advertising their math skills and it's like, is that what's it's going to amount to, I'm just going to take more math courses and then I'll just be a math tutor? It's like that's not tenable, right? Because there's plenty of people who do math, right? I mean, a dime a dozen in Waltham, so why am I going to why do I somehow aspire, to some degree to be one of them, even though I'm sort of internal on what it is, because I want to know the material. It's like is that enough, is that just this weird sort of delusion I have, you know? Like well, fine, you want to know this stuff, it's fine, but you already know it, and wanting to do it. [0:48:21.9]

So, you know, I'm going to study math for now, I feel like okay, all right. Me wanting to know something, okay that's good, that's okay, but so don't get dispirited, but also, you know, be more mindful of the realities of what is needed and what I can do and what I would want to do, and math is a really good thing. When I think about it, but I shouldn't delude myself in thinking well, you study that, and then all of a sudden some magic door is going to open and it's like oh, we need someone who does exactly what you've done. Yeah, it's possible, but ah, if that's going to happen, I need to think about what it is I'm trying to accomplish with it. What does it mean for someone who is kind of sciency, kind of mathy, but primarily someone whose sort of center of gravity is more sort of in the, sort of writing mode. [0:49:39.5]

THERAPIST: Mm. Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I like being nice to people, I like helping people. I like writing and reading what people write, and helping with that, but it's like these are all not those are not money makers, but that I like, so that's the point. Would I rather make $7 an hour helping someone write a paper or $15 an hour trying to sell someone a Ralph Lauren shirt? No contest.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Does it feel kind of deflating? You said it was like a combination of feeling kind of deflating and frightening, to think about I think you were referencing kind of Bloomingdale's world, but does it feel that way with certain kind of teaching or tutoring gigs? Does it feel that does it bring up that kind of feeling as well? [0:51:06.0]

CLIENT: Well, the tutoring, you feel invested, but it's also, it feels in a way kind of like I guess it's the nature of any sort of work. Now, I'm thinking of Tolstoy a lot, in his later years, about the nature of work, and he wasn't very positive about it. He had spoken to the Dalai Lama about finding happiness at work.

THERAPIST: On what, what is it?

CLIENT: Finding happiness at work.

THERAPIST: Finding happiness at work. Huh.

CLIENT: But there's a feeling of not being in a position of power, meaning to be assisting a young person, you feel in a way, kind of like at the mercy of the parents, and it's almost like you're sort of a hired gun. It's sort of like we need a nanny, we need someone to teach the kids, we need this, this, this, this is sort of like another little expense. [0:52:29.6]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: It's not a vital thing, it's sort of like well, we want them to do well on the SAT, because there's always this need for SAT tutors, and it's usually through companies, right? Which you know, so of course they're looking for, you know, young college student, to be teaching SATs, so that's, I'm not what they're looking for. But it's sort of like well, there's a goal, and you're just trying to help them with the goal. It's not really like life is a journey and we're going to create a relationship and it's really great, you're helping. Yeah, there is that I suppose, but it's really like okay, we want our kid to get an A on this and they need to do really well on the SAT, and so that's your job, is to -

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: As opposed to being a teacher, where it's like now you're a shepherd, right? You take care of all these kids and you know, parents aren't in your face about it. At least at the school I taught at, because, you know, it's the inner city. I suppose if I were teaching in the suburbs, where parents often, it's the case, they want to, but that's not where I've taught. [0:53:40.0]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And there's that feeling too, right? You know, I remember a teacher, and I forget his name, an old guy, and so he was teaching, he used to come into class, and he really was a teacher that had... Anyway, he had patches on his elbows and of course, that's like a stylish thing to do, have the suede patches, but you know, him telling us, you know, here's a little aside. It's like teaches have leather patches on their elbows because they were leaning on desks and they couldn't afford a new jacket. That's where the patches comes from. Teachers have leather patches, that's why it looks academic, because, you know, they can't afford to buy new clothes.

THERAPIST: Interesting.

CLIENT: It isn't a badge of honor.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It's just the opposite. [0:54:40.8]

CLIENT: It's just the opposite, yeah. It's like well, you're working for people who can pay.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: If you're a private tutor.

THERAPIST: Yeah, all of it, I guess implies some sort of pride swallowing. I hear, like that's some of what you feel, in looking at this stuff. Kind of like where does this place you among your peers and among your... How do you evaluate yourself, as importantly, if not more importantly, look at yourself and measure yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so, you know, this great program, which we enjoy, Chopped. You know, they always do like a little vignette right, introducing the chefs, where they come from and what they're up to and what their aspirations are, and then they get down to business and they open their basket, and they have to like make an entrée out of, you know, gumdrops and lobster. (laughs) You know, crazy stuff, right? [0:55:59.9]

THERAPIST: Sounds yummy.

CLIENT: So, you know, but they talk about like why they're or they're asked directly, like why are you competing on Chopped? And there's a prize, right, there's $10,000 if you win, and so people often are talking about how it's going to be great to get the $10,000. But, usually, usually what it is, and this is the word that's used, is some sort of validation.

THERAPIST: Huh, huh.

CLIENT: And no one wants to be chopped first. To be chopped first is horrible, and so these sort of postings as they're walking off, and they have like ten seconds of talking about what it meant to be chopped. Some people are teary and some people are angry and some people are gracious. But yeah, for a lot, yeah, it's the sense of everyone's got this doubt and they want to win Chopped. [0:57:15.6]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: To prove that they really did make it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's not enough to be a chef and, you know, the executive chef at a restaurant. To win Chopped means bam, you've got a stamp.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and in a way, I was kind of thinking about how you were describing about coming in today, without, without not in the context of you taking a math class. I was thinking about how maybe one thing about that is that you're kind of left without this experience that you have while you're struggling and working on a math thing, of really accomplishing something that's very important and is very hard to do, and does kind of as you were working it out, really was kind of validating something about you and your talent, and in a very important way. And without that, coming in today, it might have felt a little bit deflating to come in, in some way. In some way it felt a little bit like, how are we here together, you know how do you feel about yourself and me, and what way do I see you. And it seems like the job stuff really brings that stuff up front and center, like what kind of job will you take and how will you feel about it. Even if it's a job that means something to you, kind of in terms of your own principles, what about the fact that it might not speak to some ambitions that you have. How do you... How does that land with you, how do you let it where does that fit in and how do you make space for that. I don't know how to put it, but something about you recognizing not being an important aspect of working, and that something about taking kind of a job like teaching, even as a high school teacher, feeling like some in some way, you feel like that it would leave you with a sense of not doing as much as you had wanted to do, not doing something as meaningful or on the mark, or something like that. [0:59:49.5]

CLIENT: I got this e-mail.

THERAPIST: We're going to stop in just a few minutes.

CLIENT: Just a couple weeks ago, about a week and a half ago, and it was from Matt Duras, and he goes, hello, happy New Year. He goes, I was going through a book and I found your e-mail and I don't know whether this will get to you or not. I'm thinking who's Duras? I thought about Matt, and I said the only one that stands out is Hokenegra (sp?). But Matt Duras, I'm thinking, "Who's Matt Duras?" So I haven't responded, because all of a sudden it's all of a sudden there's that feeling of like, I'm not working as a teacher, he's now, I don't know, mid-twenties. [1:01:00.6]

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Where is he at, what is he doing? He wrote it on his iPhone, so he must have an iPhone. So it's like, I need to somehow I realize, okay, he's putting a lot on me, because high school teachers mean something. So I need to go back and find all of my spreadsheet, and find Matt Duras, and feel like okay, who is this person, who was in that class?

THERAPIST: Yeah, okay, ah-huh.

CLIENT: And then be able to write back and make the excuse like, oh, I'll try to e-mail more often, sorry, and blah-blah, right? But really, I've been thinking about it, like how do I respond to Matt Duras, who is Matt Duras? I somehow mattered enough, because he can find the e-mail, it's like eh, but I mean he actually... [1:02:00.7]

THERAPIST: He remembered you, yeah.

CLIENT: Which is a very nice thing to do, write to a former teacher.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: But what does that mean, to write to a former teacher?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: It's like I don't want to disappoint him. I want to somehow be encouraging, as I still am his teacher in his mind.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I don't know what to write, because I'm not a teacher, but I was a teacher, and so it's easier to ignore. It's easier just to ignore it.

THERAPIST: Huh?

CLIENT: But I feel like that's not the right thing to do.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah, I guess what it makes me think of is and I don't know if that's some of the reason of the association, but I was thinking of like that's a pretty... I don't mean to be pollyannaish about it at all, but that's a pretty significant mark of what you did do. You know, a sort of a real acknowledgement, I mean a guy remembering you and what kind of impact you had on him for a year, and him remembering and wanting to write you five years later or something. It's funny, because it's almost like I think that in some ways, for teaching for instance, there was some register on which you found teaching to be very, very important, and then on another register, having very little meaning, like in some way... You know, like there was one way, there's one kind of value lens from one way to evaluate it, is that it didn't kind of measure up to being a physician, for instance, but in another way, it really had a lot of impact, and there's kind of like this general social there are all these implications of what you were doing in terms of some sort of social meaning, you know, working with kids that... socioeconomic background and you're giving them something really good, that had a lot of bearing to you, yeah. [1:04:54.0]

It's interesting, I'd say one more thing. There's something about your father, in that latter part, about doing this noble kind of work, doing very noble, good, ethical work, and then on the other side it's like doing something beyond that though, is almost like your mom, wanting something more, wanting something more than just this. I don't know why I keep conceptualizing that, but I guess having the psychoanalytic background, I think of things as mother and father maybe, but there's something about the way that it was categorized. In other words, I think both of those sides live inside of you, both of those value systems, or how ever you want to put it. [1:06:01.9]

CLIENT: I was talking to my dad today and he was talking about this lineman ended up being a coach at the high school he went to, and he talks about how he goes, I'll never forget. He goes, one of his former Chargers showed up to football practice and they got in a fight, and this lineman, lifted one under one arm and one in the other and he said, he walked across, one of the strongest men I ever saw, and he said, they did some study on him and said he could have, if he wanted to be, the strongest man in the world. He said, he had arms, and a wingspan, he goes his wingspan was 14 inches bigger than his height and he goes, "But anyway, he ended up being a math teacher." And he goes off, being a football coach.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Right? But not but, but meaning, underestimating, like thinking like I don't think he meant it, I don't think he meant it the way it came out. It wasn't a dig, but I'm thinking really? I'm not saying that a lineman isn't perfectly smart, but it does strike me as peculiar, that you don't think of football players just sort of becoming math teachers, because I don't know, I mean did he really do three semesters of calculus, after finishing to try to pass a math test? I don't know. [1:07:52.3]

THERAPIST: Interesting.

CLIENT: Maybe he did. But yeah, just a high school math teacher, yeah. I was thinking, well it's not that easy to become a math teacher.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: I mean it should be but it's for mere mortals like me, it actually takes a little bit of effort.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Huh.

CLIENT: I really don't think he meant it as a dig.

THERAPIST: No, no.

CLIENT: Because it wasn't at all, but it was just a sense of like on the one hand, just the fact of the matter, it's like you know, a high school teacher, oh a high school teacher, it's not you're not (inaudible). And also just not really understanding. Maybe it was different back then, I don't know, but I mean, to teach math is to teach math. And also, just realizing my dad, you know, just sometimes makes things up, so it's like maybe he wasn't, maybe he really wasn't. Maybe he was a substitute teacher and he happens to be substituting for math classes.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. [1:09:12.4]

CLIENT: You know, like I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Then he's talking about my grandfather and we were talking about being at one of these really good schools, but not many but yeah, I said, there's no sports there, there's no division one, that's how he sort of stayed under the radar, because they have big sports, and they have rowing and lacrosse and tennis. And I said it is beautiful, you know they have sports, and the good basketball, on top of the hill, and it's just really beautiful up there.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: I don't like about myself, I certainly don't like it in him, I hated it growing up, and yet... I don't know (inaudible) fathers and sons. I don't know. But yeah, we, we take on characteristics that we know we don't like. Sometimes I say things and I'm like oh, I can't believe I just said that, I can't believe I'm thinking that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, there's something about that. We're obviously getting because I think there's something so deep in that, to you, about and that it's, I think it really again, kind of comes alive in the work, with the work issue, with the work questions, you know, what you've done, how to measure that and these totally different ways to actually measure one's worth and one's what one's done with one's life, you know? There's like this side of being really humble and doing solid work, and then there's this other side, doing something that really sets you apart too, and both needing to find its space. Anyway, all right.

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