TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Hi.
THERAPIST: Hi.
CLIENT: How are you?
THERAPIST: I'm doing okay.
CLIENT: I saw your emoticon.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Is it a friendly ghost? I guess that makes sense.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:00:53)
CLIENT: Why you would send me a friendly ghost?
THERAPIST: Oh, it was just sort of like, "Boo. Hi." [00:01:01]
CLIENT: I don't have a friendly ghost in my emoticons.
THERAPIST: Oh.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: This is going to work.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) [00:01:57]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:01:59)
THERAPIST: It should go... Yeah, there you go. [00:02:03]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:02:05)
THERAPIST: This one's better on my phone.
CLIENT: Aren't they the same.
THERAPIST: They are but that one looks like it's getting stuck a little.
CLIENT: No, I should learn to use this one.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:02:27) How's it going? (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Going fine.
CLIENT: I was wondering what makes a good session for you.
THERAPIST: Hmm...
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: Alight. I'm not trying to judge my meditation sessions. (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:02:57) It's hard with a daily practice to everyday have it, have some strong opinion about it. [00:03:07]
So I'm starting... I'm trying to apply that here but it's not as successful. Like a good session is one that doesn't leave me crying in the stairwell... (PAUSE) ...which happens. (PAUSE) A good session is one that doesn't, that does sort of leave me feeling empowered or happy (ph). (PAUSE) It's also one where I manage to like shift you or do something unexpected or one where there's something funny. [00:04:09]
(PAUSE) Or where there's a lot to think about and it's not unbearable. (PAUSE) But your stairwell has... (PAUSE) ...a very privileged position. Like it's a privileged stairwell because it gets to hear the immediate reactions which sometimes is like, "Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck," or just like I sit down on a stair and like breathe or cry or laugh. [00:05:03]
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: You on the stairwell kind of here?
CLIENT: Mm hmm. Like this is the theater. (PAUSE) I'm sorry but it is. You seem to want to be like the other parts of the world for me.
(PAUSE) [00:06:00]
THERAPIST: I guess I think it's... (PAUSE) It seems to me important that I fit the reactions to being here that you tend to have here (inaudible at 00:06:53) But it seems to me...
(PAUSE) [00:07:00]
THERAPIST: ...fail you.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: Yeah. I think it's a problem. (PAUSE) I don't know why. Maybe sometimes I have expectations that I didn't know about or realize or something bothers me that I can't, that I don't know about when it happens. [00:08:07]
But mostly it just feels like a flood of emotions. It's not like, "Oh man, like that thing that we talked about... That thing he (ph) said..." It's mostly like, "Blah..." And then, and then it like doesn't really last for that long and if it does, you usually hear about it.
THERAPIST: Mm hmm.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: I also noticed that I couldn't really remember why it felt so badly to have sex with Jeremy (ph) that night and I think this has come up before. [00:08:59]
Like I don't remember bad feelings. (PAUSE) I remember crying a lot and I remember how it felt really different when it felt like it was passing but I don't remember what it felt like. (PAUSE) When I traveled to really difficult places, I don't remember why they're difficult when I come back. I've noticed that for a long time. Like I've had all of these traumatic experiences in India and I always want to go back all the time. And when I'm there, I'm actually not that happy. [00:10:01]
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: I mean, I am happy. It's great being there. It's not like I shouldn't be there. But I don't think I have a very balanced or realistic memory. (PAUSE) I remember anxiety a lot but I don't remember pain or sadness a lot. (PAUSE) I think I remember anxiety too much. Like I'm a lot of times, not so much recently, but fear of anxiety is like (inaudible at 00:11:03) [00:11:05]
But that's a really different emotion from what I felt during sex or like what I feel sometimes when I'm not, when I'm far away from home.
(PAUSE) [00:12:00]
CLIENT: Okay.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I'm not sure what to say yet.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: That makes a good session for you?
(PAUSE) [00:13:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:13:25)
THERAPIST: Um... (SIGH) (PAUSE) Yeah. I don't tend to think about it like that.
(PAUSE)[00:14:00]
CLIENT: I don't like thinking about it that way either. (PAUSE) Sometimes I do. Like half the time probably.
THERAPIST: Mm hmm. (PAUSE) I imagine it can feel reassuring and nice to have you feel like you had a good session.
CLIENT: Mm hmm. [00:15:01]
THERAPIST: Um...
CLIENT: Yeah. Like, "Yeah, that was a good session."
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: My mom used to say that she could tell what like experiences or actions were good bets for me and my brother based on our faith coming out of that (inaudible at 00:15:37) that it was a real obvious (inaudible at 00:15:51) probably like the emotions on my face are. [00:16:03]
THERAPIST: Mm hmm.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: I think the prizes are the positive, the very positive emotions. I think I should go to bed (inaudible at 00:16:43) It's just an interesting like way to check in with yourself.
(PAUSE) [00:17:00]
(PAUSE) [00:18:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:18:15) It turns out like you had given me tickets that weren't paid for but they were heavily discounted. So they were six dollars instead of like... (PAUSE) I like the number seven, seventeen, twenty seven, fifty seven. I had five dollars with me.(inaudible at 00:18:49) Somebody had a dollar coin right behind me in line at the gate and I was like on the ground looking through my wallet for more money at this point. [00:19:07]
THERAPIST: I was thinking about (inaudible at 00:19:15) for today.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: In the dream?
THERAPIST: Sorry. No, no. When you asked (inaudible at 00:19:31) that's actually what was on my mind and I wondered if that might be a hard thing to sort of talk about or anticipate. [00:20:01]
CLIENT: I think it's hard to anticipate. (PAUSE) I mean, it's not hard to anticipate how reassuring it would be to set up a time to talk while I'm gone. Like already I can immediately tell that would be reassuring but I'm not sure that's something I'm going to want. I think I'm also looking forward to a break. (PAUSE) it's also just wrapped into the leaving my structure altogether and it's not clear to me what aspects of the structure are going to be hard to leave.
(PAUSE) [00:21:00]
THERAPIST: I have a take on it. One is I think it is hard to implicate what it's going to be like in that to me it seems like it will be bad. You say that weekends are bad and this is longer, quite longer than that.
CLIENT: But it's not like a weekend in that... So say your other thought.
THERAPIST: The other thought is... Sure. I'm... (LAUGHTER) I don't want to keep bringing up the bad feeling and I'm wondering...
CLIENT: That's your job. [00:22:05]
THERAPIST: Really?
CLIENT: Yeah. I think it's your job to bring up the bad feelings.
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: Well, you do it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's not the only part of your job. If I were to offer a description of your job, it would be... (PAUSE) ...to love and care for me.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: And that means bringing up bad feelings?
CLIENT: In a different way. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) [00:22:57]
I think that's a wonderful job description.
CLIENT: I did mention in the list of reasons why I think we're actually compatible the fact that I think you're good at your job. I think that's important to me. It's an attractive quality. So you are good at bringing up the bad feelings.
THERAPIST: Well, I think I was particularly today (inaudible at 00:23:39) Maybe what you are... Maybe what you're wanting today and what you imagine would help with the break is to have a really good session that was clear that we both felt was really good and that would help you to sort of feel connected in a way you could take with you. [00:24:11]
CLIENT: Yeah. I think that's right. What's scary about the weekends that's different from this, I think, is that the weekend is like... (PAUSE) (SIGH) It's like trying... Like I have to constantly figure out how to make something that doesn't seem fresh, fresh and like galvanize and like work hard to find the good parts... I mean, I have a very wonderful life. [00:25:01]
I don't mean looking for actually the good parts. I mean like not feeling completely disconnected. For some reason, that happens on a weekend. The thing about this trip is that it's with a whole bunch of people with whom I actually feel like pretty close to and who are around me during the best part of my life at this time which is like in the middle of the weekday, not because I love my work so much but for some reason that's the most positive state of mind that I can achieve these days. It's also in a new place. There's new stimulation and there's a lot of opportunity to like...
(PAUSE) [00:26:00]
(inaudible at 00:26:03) opportunity to like connect with Jeremy (ph) in a new place and like observe new things and reflect on the new things and it actually like makes me feel very close to be away for a little bit and to have a time where I check in regularly. That's a really nice thing. What isn't nice is like I just remember going to India for a month my junior year of college and that was like way too long for this sort of... For me I had this attitude it was the whole time, the whole thing was a weekend and I had to like build connections and find reasons to feel like where I was was home and it was miserable. [00:27:09]
That is the first time that I remember having significant anxiety over anything. Jeremy and I spent hundreds of dollars talking on the phone. Like I couldn't not be in touch with him and I cried a lot and I felt horribly alone and it's actually like (inaudible at 00:27:45) I'm like twenty one years old which I didn't anticipate or expect. It's like when I leave this room it's just this flood. [00:28:05]
And then coming back home which was something that I wanted so much and I got a flight and the first place that I go (inaudible at 00:28:17) had to work in the orphanage and had to travel around by myself for a bit. There's always been this conflict of wanting to kind of be a globe trotter and be out on my own and see the world and make connections and actually it doesn't feel that comfortable to me. (inaudible at 00:28:43) Before I had the trip back, I basically convinced myself out of just such a deep hole of anxiety that my plane was going to crash and...
THERAPIST: Hmm. On your way back? [00:28:59]
CLIENT: Yeah. That I wouldn't ever get home. I remember talking to my mom on a, like sitting on a curb. You know, there was like sewage everywhere and kids and pigeons and just like holding my phone and like my head and just like explaining how I knew that the plane was going to crash.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I think... (PAUSE) I think that like terrible upset, worried...
(PAUSE) [00:30:00]
THERAPIST: Part of it feels like it's not going to make contact again ever with the people in your life.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:30:25) ruminating quality that is like really present when I think about you is this constant checking to make sure that you're still there. (PAUSE) I don't have that with all the people I'm close to. It's not... I don't think it's a universal way that I interact with (inaudible at 00:31:03) Maybe it's a type of interaction that does repeat. [00:31:05]
You know, like a certain chunk of the relationship in time or (inaudible at 00:31:21)
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:31:41) about how I like seem to want you to have stairwell feelings here. I guess one way to explain where I'm coming from on that is to say like I'm concerned about that one. Like for when you have those feelings or those sitting on the curb like talking to your mother convinced your plane's going to crash. [00:32:15]
I'm concerned about the other ones too but... Yeah.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: There's something about being by myself that changes like my emotional accent or something. I don't think it's just... I don't think it's your presence necessarily. I think if there was someone else in the stairwell, I wouldn't... It wouldn't be like, "Oh man. I'm going to show all this emotion. I need to hide it." It just wouldn't come. [00:33:15]
Which is sometimes like when I get home in the afternoons, I just like start crying and it's not really clear why but...
THERAPIST: Yeah. (PAUSE) I'm kind of personifying that aspect of you but that is the one who seems to feel (inaudible at 00:33:47) that the rest of you sort of isn't so clear (inaudible at 00:33:57) or before you leave for a trip. [00:34:03]
CLIENT: I think I felt that I (inaudible at 00:34:05)
THERAPIST: Absolutely. Yes. Definitely. (PAUSE) But I really don't mean to say by that I don't think you have...
(PAUSE) [00:35:00]
CLIENT: What do you want to do?
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: What do you?
CLIENT: I don't know. (LAUGHTER) It's kind of like a good question that I haven't experienced. (PAUSE) Like maybe we could have like a mock stairwell experience and I come back in the room or maybe we could spend more time (inaudible at 00:35:53) That seems too... You know? Like being alone a bit. [00:35:59]
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:36:01) stairwell today.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: Um... (PAUSE) I think I'm really bad at predicting it. Like I mean, it feels bad and I think I'm going to feel full of thought. (SIGH) I also might feel like I didn't breathe very well here which sometimes is the case. I don't breathe well in here.
(PAUSE) [00:37:00]
CLIENT: I don't know why I'm so (inaudible at 00:37:55) [00:37:57]
It's almost like it would be way impractical for them to be (inaudible at 00:38:05) because they're so strong. (PAUSE) Like I wouldn't know how to... (PAUSE) I wouldn't know how to have them.
(PAUSE) [00:39:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:39:05) also why I... (PAUSE) ...keep wondering if I should keep seeing (inaudible at 00:39:19) (PAUSE) I think there's something about like feeling like I have a choice that is really important and actually most of the time I feel like I don't have a choice. (PAUSE) Like this thing was born and like I need to care for it and like see what happens to it and I share it with you and I can't just abandon it. [00:40:05]
I don't want to. But sometimes I really do. (PAUSE) So when you are more supportive and encouraging... (PAUSE) That's helps. I think that abandonment-wise.
(PAUSE) [00:41:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:41:15) asking for it when I want it. but that's just an observation.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: You have a concern there's something going on whereby it's harder to feel connected where you feel more abandoned or like I'm just not there when you feel certain feelings? [00:42:15]
CLIENT: Does it make sense? So like when I feel more supported by you, I think about abandonment less.
THERAPIST: Less. I see.
CLIENT: Not I feel less abandoned by you.
THERAPIST: I see. (PAUE) When I'm more supportive you think less of like, "Maybe I just want to get out of here."
CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I think (inaudible at 00:43:05) [00:43:07]
(inaudible at 00:43:15)
THERAPIST: But somehow the supportive part is also very important.
CLIENT: Yeah. It's tough but it's sometimes like I said earlier, it, I mean...
THERAPIST: It sounds like it's really hard.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:43:51)
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:44:00]
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:44:25) Should we finish up?
CLIENT: I don't know if I should ask (inaudible at 00:44:45)
THERAPIST: Think about it and let me know. It's fine with me.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:44:57) [00:45:01]
THERAPIST: Yeah. I think that's (inaudible at 00:45:11)
CLIENT: Do you have an idea of what might be helpful?
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I have many ideas of what might be helpful. I mean, okay. I think I misunderstood the gist of your question which was less like... Yeah. you want to know what I think you should do.
We need Tuesday. We're scheduled next Wednesday. Um... (SIGH) Why don't you send me an e-mail on Thursday and let me know how it's going. [00:46:01]
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: We'll go from there.
CLIENT: Alright. Bye. Thanks.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I hope you have a good trip.
CLIENT: Thanks. Have you been?
THERAPIST: I have a long time ago.
CLIENT: I'm super psyched.
THERAPIST: Cool.
CLIENT: I don't know how much time (inaudible at 00:46:35)
END TRANSCRIPT
