TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: (joined in progress) (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: He was (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Yeah, there are a lot of move outs.

CLIENT: So here is...

THERAPIST: Okay, thank you. (pause) All right!

CLIENT: So... (pause) What I’m about to say, I always feel like, “Oh God! Your job, to listen to this!” (laughs) You just listen to people complain!

THERAPIST: Really? [00:58:00]

CLIENT: Anyway...

THERAPIST: Huh!

CLIENT: I don’t know! I just, you know... I don’t know. Sometimes you just sort of take stock and like, I don’t know. When I’m taking a class, it’s like I really focus on that, and I’m able to somehow block out other stuff, perhaps? And now, it’s like... God! I don’t know; it’s... I don’t know, mid-life crisis, which I don’t know that, quite what that is. I don’t really, I resist the term, but just I look and think... I know there are very different meanings of it, but, it’s like 44, no job, no kids, not married, broke... [00:01:40]

Last night I was listening to the radio and... The DA (inaudible), naturally when somebody called in blocked/(inaudible) and he said, he goes, “I’m losing, I’m (inaudible)! $5000 of equipment into a $500 (ph) car for a $50 gig! (laughs) Is that not like... yeah. I get it! (laughs) You know? (therapist affirms) I don’t know. So, I’m trying, I don’t know. It’s like... (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, what are you thinking?

CLIENT: I don’t know. Like, I don’t know. It’s just, it’s like, like right now, I’m not feeling... I’m not really feeling, but I’m just sort of aware, then I’m by myself, I’m like... God! [00:02:39]

THERAPIST: What do you get hit with, yeah?

CLIENT: Well, it’s like, you know, I’m home and... I don’t know. Like, I’m in this house and, you know, like what’s been going on recently? You know, it’s spackling, it’s sanding, yesterday priming and... You know like... but you’re sort of like, sometimes I’m hit with like just, sort of the... (inaudible) nature of things. I’m thinking, I’m looking at all this wallpaper that she put up, right? And then, now she died in the house. And I’m thinking, “Well, is this where I’m going to die? And I, you know, somebody else is going to come along and paint over what I’ve painted.” I mean, that’s really it, you know? So you’re just sort of painting and you’re taking great care, thinking, “She took great care to hang this wallpaper, and it’s nice and... and now she’s gone.” [00:03:41]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. And you’re putting up your own and (inaudible). (client affirms) And tearing down what she had, and putting up what you blocked/(inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s it! It’s so... I don’t know. Is this what it is? I mean... I’m thinking, I don’t know. I’m just saying, and thinking, like... Well, I don’t know. I mean, like I watched... There is a show called Vice, where the host... I don’t know if you know the show. Close (ph) to the host, there is this documentor, I don’t know, documentorist? Documentary filmmaker? And journalist. (therapist responds) And he gets these just amazing stories, so it’s on Showtime, and he goes in-depth, it’s a half hour, and he’s always on location with some strange coupled stories that just aren’t covered by big media, right? [00:04:45]

So he sort of gets involved and he meets people, because he’s sort of this hip kind of guy. Like, he got into North Korea, for instance, he like, snuck into North Korea and then did this like expose, it was phenomenal. Anyway, so he’s in Spain, right? He’s (clears throat, “pardon me”), so he was in Spain, he got involved with these radical groups, (inaudible) Greece and got involved with this fascist group, but also was talking to the anarchists. And people talk to him, right?

Like, the basic theme of the show was, “What do you do (NPR has been covering this as well)... What do you do with a generation of young people where there is, you know, 25-40% unemployment?” Right? (therapist responds) And so, in Greece, there are just daily riots. Fascist versus anarchist versus other groups, and the government is just falling apart. Now we don’t see this really on the nightly news. The riots we hear about, “Oh. European troubles of (inaudible) in Europe.” And it tends to be, you know, IMF level stuff, right? Not young people rioting. [00:06:03]

THERAPIST: Yeah, based on fiscal policy, austerity measures, and all that.

CLIENT: Yes, yes, yes. And so... And I look and think... Yeah. So you have people who aren’t working, but they come up with my issue, right? I’m not 23 anymore; I’m 44 and not working, and thinking, and this... I don’t know, I’m looking and thinking, “What the hell is my problem? What is my problem? Where did things, way long time ago, get off the rails, where I somehow wasn’t (ph) following the normal trajectory? Which is a good trajectory, I mean...

(pause) Good family, good school... good upbringing, right? You go to school, you meet somebody, you get married, you have kids, you get a job, you keep the job and just do it, you progress, and there you go! Instead of being 44 and thinking about kids going to college and putting money away to buy like, a vacation home, right? You know, getting a new car every couple of years. Which in the big picture, worldwide, I mean... I’m very aware that’s an American way of thinking, I’m aware of... [00:07:40]

But... So anyway, what do I do? I don’t know. I... somehow... I mean, I’m wondering about this, thinking, “Why is it I’m not absolutely horribly depressed, like I used to be?” Thinking, “What weird thing has happened to me psychologically, where somehow I’m somehow... on the surface like, Okay.” You know? Like... (therapist affirms) things are crummy (ph). I mean, and I mean in some sense, right? You know? (therapist affirms) (pause) [00:08:32]

I’m thinking, what are my, what major thing am I in a state of denial about? Like, what have I, what have I like, how have I managed to not be on anti-depressants? How am I somehow going through life and sort of aware of this, but not... I don’t know. Maybe that’s what happens to people. Maybe it’s like at some point, you just sort of think, “Well... this is not functional, but it somehow functions in some way and you get used to it.”

Like, Edna made a good point. She came over and looked at the house. The kitchen, right? These cabinets are sort of gold-ish... I mean they’re stained, right? But sort of a goldy-gold stain. The wallpaper that she has in the kitchen (or had)... is this dangle, sort of stripes, but like, little intermittent patterns of someone who like, with a (sighs)... I don’t know, maybe like lipstick or something, just sort of made these little slashes. So it’s consistent, right? But it’s sort of, it fades on one side, and it’s pinky-blue. In fact, it’s sort of like the spines of that set of seven books you have there? Sort of that pink and blue? (therapist affirms) [00:10:20]

And sort of that, so it sort of looks like possibly (inaudible) or maybe David Bowie face make-up (therapist affirms and chuckles), right? I’m thinking, “Wow!” So this conservative catholic woman who never married, who lived in this house for 40 years, with her sister and mom (who died 25 years ago), so now she’s by, in her house by herself. At some point, maybe 80s, I don’t know, put that sort of wallpaper in a kitchen that has this sort of gold stain, right?

So the wallpaper by itself... it’s like kind of interesting. If it were in an art deco house... Maybe, right? But, it’s anachronistic (therapist responds) with the cabinets, right? And so Edna made a good point. She said, “You know, when people...” Because she’s looking; it’s like, it just does not go, plain and simple, does not go; stylistically, and color-wise) And Edna said, she goes, “You know, when people live in a place for a long time, they don’t even see those things anymore. She wasn’t even looking at the cabinets when she chose the wallpaper.” [00:11:38]

(pause) She didn’t even... Huh! That makes sense. She didn’t even see the cabinets! Somehow she thought, “Well, it will be okay. I like the wallpaper and you know, it’s all right.” Of course, from an outside perspective, it’s like, “No!” Totally is “No! What were you thinking?” (therapist responds) So from her personal point of view, it’s like, she just doesn’t even see the cabinet! She’s gotten used to it, they are invisible in some way, and thus she chooses the wrong wallpaper.

So, in life, right? What do you just sort of see so often... that you begin to ignore? Or, I mean, conversely, you know, what you see so often you kind of fixate on. I guess that’s The Silence of the Lambs, but I don’t know. But in my case, like what do I just tend to ignore? (therapist affirms) I don’t know. So... (pause) I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know. [00:13:01]

You know, it’s like, what I do, I like. Here are things that I like, so maybe this explains why I can somehow “ignore the cabinets.” I like silly (ph) math. Math, that is interesting, for some reason, right? So I’m doing that. So now other things get pushed aside. Although it’s very basic and I have to sort of tell myself, well, what do I do? Like despite like all of the things that I’ve learned and all of the education? I teach CPR, which you know, an 18-year-old could do. I do it well...

THERAPIST: And you like it.

CLIENT: But I like it! (therapist affirms) So I think, “Okay, I like to teach that.” I like driving places, I like meeting new people, I like being on stage, I like the positive feedback... (pause) But in terms of... (pause) like somehow having some adventure, or being on the edge, or some energy, I don’t have it. Like, I feel like there is this... feeling of being in a big house, and all of a sudden, like looking toward the future and my parents getting older and I’m far away, and I don’t have kids and like, all these things. It’s like... What’s going on? [00:15:06]

And feeling like... when’s the last time I really felt like somehow, like I’ve tolerated some discomfort, meaning... So here is an example. So today, right? I thought, well it’s hot, so I’ll take a cold shower, a nice coldish... And I thought... (pause) and when the lights were off in the bathroom, so it was just sort of dim... In the past when it’s happened, right? I’m aware of the fact that if it’s dark and I’m taking a shower, and it’s not a hot shower, immediately I have this flash back to the air force (ph), and we sat on the planes underneath the water. That’s like just this hardwired thing, right?

But since I thought of that before going into it, I wasn’t feeling afraid of that. I had an idea, not that I didn’t... never, I never feel the idea of me being, you know, playing (ph) in the water. Instead, I’m feeling the cold water and I thought... like... when I went scuba diving in Tahiti, there was a sense of like, “Wow, I’m underneath the water and I’m doing this!” There is a sense of adventure, and adrenalin, and the different feeling that was. Then you like, get out and you wash off all your stuff, and get a cold shower or like growing up, right? You go to the beach and you boogie board, or you surf, or whatever. But then you are taking a shower, because you have to go in the showers at the beach, right? So you’re standing there, and you’re showering... And the sense of like having to pout (ph) and now you’re sort of cleaning off from having done something, which is a, I mean, you know the... blocked/(inaudible) [00:17:12]

THERAPIST: Like a little ritualistic?

CLIENT: Yeah, you know the feeling of it. I’m thinking, for years now, I felt like I’ve just sort of taken a shower in a shower! So I’m stuck (ph), you know? It’s not like I’ve... I’m... out really trying to get sand off myself or saltwater off of myself.

THERAPIST: I see what you’re saying.

CLIENT: And thinking, wow... (pause) Hmm. (pause) I don’t know. It feels... very... domestic. So like, one of the things (ph), it was like, going out to dinner doesn’t excite me. (pause) You know, so like, what’s going on? Like what’s going on? Like what things (inaudible) equal out (ph)? You know. So I think, “Well.” Does all of this lead up (ph) to like Bruins versus Penguins? Like, well, yeah, because that’s good, that’s great, psychological. You know, there is enough sports (inaudible), you sort of figure out... But then there is the game itself, right? So there is all this... as usual like, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk nonstop. It doesn’t affect me personally, really... [00:18:40]

I’m thinking, “Is that it? So that’s my sense of excitement, is rooting for the Bruins or rooting for the Patriots instead of going surfing, or going scuba diving, or training for a marathon, or... I mean all kinds of like, personal... (therapist affirms) I don’t know. I’m thinking... and instead of looking at it, thinking well, “If I had a job that I liked, that would solve myriad problems,” right? Psychologically and financially. But also... it’s like, I often fail to see, is that it’s not just that you work in order to sort of keep the status quo, although that’s sort of an element. No! That means that you have the material resources to actually go and shake things up a bit! You could actually take a little... you know, vacation, in an adventure sense. You could sort of incorporate these three (ph) things into your life. So instead of sort of being at this... “$5000 a year into a $500 car for $50 gig,” right?

(pause 00:20:10 to 00:20:30]

I don’t know, so... You know again, I’m not feeling it now, but you know, certainly when I’m at home, you know or I was feeling it earlier... Today, I was feeling it last night. You know like, last night I couldn’t sleep. It was hotter than blazes and I had to put the air conditioner in again. So... (inaudible), you know. So I go downstairs thinking, “I can’t sleep; I’m just wide awake.” Although I could do some math, then thinking “Well, you shouldn’t do math to make you tired.” That seems like... So, you know, I’m flipping the channels and thought, “Well, all right, I’ll watch...” Wonder if the new Arrested Development is on Netflix? So I do that. But it’s not lost on me, right? That it’s Arrested Development, right? (chuckles) I mean, every character has some major (laughs) issue and they’re totally set back. [00:21:28]

So you see these characters. Anyway, it’s amusing, but also it’s like, “Oh, God!” (therapist responds) (pause) So then, you know, but I was feeling... And I’m not sure what I think yet about the new Arrested Development. I mean, you know, all-time favorite (inaudible)... shows, but... So now, it’s like, I feel like I’m not totally into it yet. So I watch it, right? And last night’s episode, it was the third episode and... Portitia sic/ (ph) tells us she... she sort of has her episode. It’s her arrested development. So she was travelling kind of (ph) by herself. And it’s about all kinds of things, with (inaudible). [00:22:32]

(pause) She tries to reconcile with Dr. Funke. And of course, they’re all older, right? There, that is the thing, too, right? I mean, she looks different. They all look different! I mean, it’s man, I don’t know, I mean, I don’t know, was it 2005 or something? It was like... (pause) I don’t know, it’s like, Wow! It’s been out for like ten years!

THERAPIST: Yeah. They’re not that same...

CLIENT: Yeah! It’s like David Cross is just... you know, rounder. And the mom, she’s like... she’s starting to look elderly. (pause) So anyway... (therapist affirms) So it’s like, Wow! Yikes! This is... Michael Cera looks the same, but... (pause) So anyway, I’m watching that, whatever it is, seeing people get older, trying to into the story line, also aware of the fact that these people (ph) are still stuck and it’s ten years later. [00:23:56]

THERAPIST: (inaudible), yeah.

CLIENT: And then I go upstairs and like, as soon as I get into bed, this is the thing, this has been going on for a long time. Like, whatever else is going on, as soon as I get into bed, all of a sudden it hits me, it’s like getting into a coffin, right? There is a sense of... Like, okay. Now you have to go to sleep, Barbara is there, what do I have? (therapist responds) It’s like... And there is a sense, I’m not sure if I literally think it, but maybe I’m feeling it, the sense of like, the number of nights one gets into bed is finite. There will be a last time you get into bed.

(pause) I don’t know. (therapist affirms) Maybe this time it might be the last time you ever do anything! Last time you brush your teeth, last time you drink a glass of milk, last time you watch a Bruins game. You know... maybe I’ve scuba dived for the last time; maybe that’s it. Maybe there are things that I’ve already, you know, I’m sure there are; maybe I don’t even want to think about it. There are things that I have already done for the last time. Maybe that’s a good thing, if they’re, you know, not good or unpleasant things. [00:25:15]

THERAPIST: But yeah, you’re confronted with some sort of like, this isn’t going to last forever. Also it sounds like it’s a very introspective kind of moment there, where you’re kind of going, “What does all this meaning to me?” (pause) “Somebody’s going to be here later, sleeping in this spot and I’m going to be gone.”

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s it! I mean, and... well, so here, too, now, now, now, yeah, you’re talking, and listening to talking (inaudible), you know. This is not my house! This isn’t (inaudible) life (ph)!

THERAPIST: Yeah, what?

CLIENT: So I was thinking, you know, when I was in high school it wasn’t that (inaudible). (pause) I thought... well, you see it through the view of, you know, T. D. Jakes (ph) and energy. You look towards adults and think, “Oh, that’s what adults sometimes say. They have this stuff, but now they’re...,” right? And now I look (chuckles) and I think, “Hmm! I might be actually, you know, older than they (inaudible). (therapist responds) [00:26:34]

And it’s really, it’s rotten (ph), it’s not my house. But I live in the house. And she’s not my wife and yes, she’s beautiful but I’m not like... in love in that sense like, you know, it’s not like I just met her a week ago, right? I’m used to her, just like the cabinets. (therapist responds) So, you know, there is the other idea of sort of this taking stock of life, that you have all of this stuff, but what does it mean? Now I look and think... I’m feeling like I don’t really have all the normal things one has and why... [00:27:33]

(pause) You know, it’s not like... you know, some sort of crisis where someone thinks, “Well, I’ll go buy a black sports car.” Well, I can’t go buy a black sports car, because I don’t (inaudible). Not that I want a black sports car (therapist affirms), but that would be, no, that’s sort of the stereotypical thing one does. (therapist affirms) (pause) And you know, that feeling of like, you know, you go through life (I have gone through life), always with that feeling of like, “Well, real life is going to begin, right? Things that I want to do, I can do, I’ll catch up, I will eventually work it out.” And now... I look and think, “Well... how?” You know? [00:28:35]

So I don’t, I’m not, I haven’t given up hope, but there is this reality of like, all right, well, if I want a family, I need to break up with Barbara, and get financially stable, and find someone who is younger, and have kids. And even then, if that would somehow happen within a year, I’d be 64 when the kid’s 20? And then there is just the inertia of things, right? Because the acuteness of this feeling comes and goes, right? So... you know it’s like, “ignoring the cabinets.” And so, you know... [00:29:29]

And, you know, it was my birthday last... whenever. (therapist responds) Thursday, I think. So... or Tuesday, I guess, yeah. Today is Friday, Tuesday. (pause) So... so you sort of think, “Well, you know, it will work out.” Well, so you just sort of, you get teased (ph) and you just sort of drift. (therapist affirms) And it like takes... well, this is... it takes moments of... previously in life, I suppose... And I don’t think anything in particular, but somehow like things that felt acute in the past, where there have been these moments of crisis, and you’re like, you do something. They’re activating. Well, now, somehow I feel like... I’m not wishing this, it’s not in the back of my mind, I’m thinking... if some external... (or internal, right? I mean, if you know, I’m getting some disease), like something happens where all of a sudden, it’s like, Okay, wow, this is... I need to do something. [00:31:03]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. There is nothing like, pressing on you to make that kind of move, some sort of... Because I think what you find is that there is an anxiety that comes with kind of looking and kind of wondering about, you know, things like what do I want to do? You know, what is it that I want to do, and the wondering and the imagining of, “Can I do it?” It brings up a lot.

It’s like, it’s hard to kind of face all of that, especially when you feel like, you know, there is nothing pressing on you now, there are nothing like, maybe Barbara in some way feels something, and you notice it, or pick it up in her... something inside of you. But it’s... it’s certainly nothing of urgency or crisis, you know. So, in other words, like it’s hard to kind of go into that realm of anxiety when there is, you know... when things are pretty good. You’re right, there is not, it does seem like you could live this way. I mean, there is a sort of sense of that, yeah. People do it.

(pause 00:32:26 to 00:33:19)

CLIENT: Thinking about this film... so it’s... it’s called A Taste of Cherry, it’s Abbas Kiarostami. So this guy... So it takes place in Tehran, right? On the outskirts of Tehran. Normal life. Somehow he wants to end it, right? So he disappears, everyone is looking for him. And this old guy finds him, right? He does kill himself (ph) and, I don’t know if you’ve seen the film (therapist replies in the negative), but... So Abbas Kiarostami is just a phenomenal filmmaker.

So the old guy is talking to this younger guy, who is, you know, whatever, say he’s 40. He’s wanting to just end it (ph) and the old guy recounts a time that he felt like that. And then he was about to, but he climbed up a cherry tree, he was going to hang himself. He was sitting on the limbs, right? And he was eating cherries and he realized that he likes the taste of cherries. And then he began to think of not being able to taste to cherries and other things that he liked. So he climbed down from the tree. [00:35:12]

So this younger guy, hearing it from an older guy, it’s not an unusual feeling, (inaudible) you figure it out, figure it out. So then, you know, the guy goes home and there is this... No one knows that this is what he was contemplating, right? And he won’t be able to say anything and you know, he makes up some excuse I think, (it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the film, but...) “the car broke down,” or something or other. Never lets on that that’s what he was thinking about. And he’s genuinely back, you know genuinely happy to be back with his family.

(pause 00:36:08 to 00:36:25]

So... there is a film like that that is so well done from a place that is so good in film in general, like Iran, and yet we have a certain idea of what Iran is, in that there is this depth, particularly with Kiarostami. And these universal ideas, right? And point, right? Films like that... And then there is... the much more usual and constant fare of watching... watching, you know, Gary Tanguay and Felger and so forth, on you know, Comcast sports and listening to all that usual stuff that’s constant, right? (therapist affirms) [00:37:28]

The constant sort of ebb and flow of sports, or watching some DIY thing, or watching something on the Food Network, or... So I’m thinking, no comparison! No comparison between a work of art (like a Kiarostami film), and the usual stuff that I let myself hear, right? So sometimes I, you know, drive around and I think like, “I’m tired of listening to sports.” So I’m thinking, (inaudible). You should have talked with the Red Sox, but I don’t care. (ph) [00:38:22]

(pause) But you know whatever, it’s like, it just goes on and on and on. Sometimes, it just gets, it’s like they’re on and on and on. (therapist responds) And so I put on NPR. But then, it’s like, Oh, fuck. It’s like that’s just... it’s like, Oh, Jesus Christ, I mean, it’s talking about some... because it’s so, it’s so absent, but then they sort of like, hyperbole or political intrigue or anything, it’s just so... Like it’s reporting of the news is always serious and its always... the only thing that stands out is Fresh Air, but if Fresh Air happens to not be on when I flip the channel, then it’s like, Oh, God! I mean, do I want to be hearing about... political turmoil in western Africa? And hearing, you know, hearing interviews of... attacking other people, talking about... that? When I just truly don’t care? And I should care, but I don’t. [00:39:30]

Or, would I rather go back and, you know, listen to Gresh & Zo, or just way too loud (inaudible) terms and thinking, “Well, it’s familiar, and at least I don’t have to listen to that super-serious stuff.” (therapist responds) You know, sort of like, at night. I used to watch Charlie Rose all the time, right? You find out all kinds of things! It’s really great. And now, it’s like, that’s the last thing I want to watch. (therapist affirms) Because he’s annoying, he knows everybody, it’s this round table, so it’s sort of like the annoying way that, you know, Woody Allen films are about, you know, the very, very comfortable and, you know, live in the west side or whatever east coast, and sort of like well... great film, but you can’t help but notice the times, the world we seem to live in and thinking, “That’s not my world. Same human beings, but not my surroundings.” [00:40:53]

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) I have to stop, but... I know, before you started, I was just thinking about one thing, the... I was thinking about your comment about, you know like you can, sometimes life can feel a bit like, these days can feel like, that comfortable showering experience, but there is nothing kind of to wash off. That in some way, I mean, I do think that... It seems to me like, one thing that you’re describing is like... and I think that’s kind of representative in like your interest in math, is some sort of meaning, you know? Some sort of, a way that your life... I was thinking about it, maybe because of your discussion about the wallpaper, but as like, your life having like an artistic quality, a creative artistic quality to it, the aesthetic of your life, in a way. What is your life going to mean, and what are you going to leave, what are you going to leave behind? Wanting to have something that feels like that, but there is an anxiety, I think, that confronts you when you go... I think it does anybody, you know? But it confronts you when you think about what you want to create from your life. [00:42:15]

I mean, it’s a... (pause) And if you don’t think about it, you think it’s like the kitchen cabinets and the wallpaper. If it’s neglected, there is something amiss. You want to... you want to have it to... (sighs) (pause) And not that you don’t want, it also seems, you know, you don’t want to lose the certain comforts that you do have, like there is something important about the home to you. It’s always been there, the importance of a home to you.

But, mixed in, in some way with wanting it to also include something about the outside world as well, making and creating something. You know, it’s something, I mean, I imagine something that you really derive meaning from, is, even if it is in small pieces, is this, are the classes, the CPR classes. There is an enjoyment and an aliveness to it, interacting with people, getting people stimulated, interested, thinking in some way that you like! You like to do that, it gives your life, I think, a feeling of meaning in some way, having that connection, something about that connection with the students and the learning from you. It’s like they’re coming along, and them getting inspired in some way, like something that you’re discussing with them.

(pause 00:43:52 to 00:44:12)

CLIENT: Somehow, I have this idea of like, if you... There is something decrepit about matter. I don’t mean to sound eastern when I say this, because I’m not being eastern when I say it, but this notion of it being transitory can be very upsetting to just sort of think of, “Well, what do you leave behind? Is that all you did, was that? Is that the point, you leave stuff behind?” (therapist responds) Instead, thinking like, there are always these access points of energy, right? There are some, but what really is going on is energy (therapist affirms), and you have various access points to it and... so that allows for sort of regeneration and that allows for the idea of hope in some way, because someone’s doing something big or small or off-track or something, there is always this energy. It’s there, you can glimpse it. (therapist affirms) Somehow that lasts, and that’s what one is always connected to, and it’s a matter of being in touch with it or not. [00:45:25]

It just sort of happens that... the experience (inaudible) matter. I mean, in some corporeal sense. So it’s like, okay, what gives me energy? What is lasting? What is real? What... (stutters) in energy and truth somehow being synonymous, accessing truth (and again, I’m not meaning to sound too eastern). It’s not appealing, but just somehow I guess I’m feeling in a Christian sense faith, I guess, but I’m not thinking in those terms, either theologically. But I was thinking about, I mean, energy in dynamism (ph) and (therapist affirms), thinking, you know, it’s more than actuarial tables. It’s like... You know. (pause) (slapping sound) All right! [00:46:28]

THERAPIST: Oh, listen, let me just give you a heads up that I’m going to be, I’m taking my vacation plans are going to be that I’m going to be taking July 4, which falls on a Thursday through July 14, back the 15th of July.

CLIENT: All right, Monday July 15th.

THERAPIST: I’ll remind you, but I just wanted to let you know.

CLIENT: That might coincide, because I think I’m going to be heading home (inaudible), I’ll probably be in that area of (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right? Back to New Mexico?

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s a dirty heap! (ph) (therapist laughs) Take care!

END TRANSCRIPT