TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hey, Brian.

CLIENT: Hey.

THERAPIST: Miss me? (inaudible at 0:0:36)

CLIENT: Can you hear me all right?

THERAPIST: How�s that? Is that better?

CLIENT: That�s good. Yep.

THERAPIST: Okay. Good. Yeah, good. Okay.

CLIENT: So just got home. (pause) Anyway � so I have a cup of tea. Yeah, [I don�t know] (ph). It�s one of those things where I just get home from work and there�s that feeling of just (pause) relief. So in a way, I feel like I�ve done a good thing and I�ve sort of got my life back. [0:01:18]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah (sp?).

THERAPIST: As opposed to what you � yeah, as opposed to�

CLIENT: Well, as opposed to in the morning, waking up.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: So wake up at 3:30 even though the alarm�s supposed to go off at 5:00 and I can�t get back to sleep and there�s that feeling of � it�s like, all right. (pause) It�s going to be a good feeling when you are done with work. You just got to get up. You got to get going. And it�s going to be okay.

THERAPIST: And then you�d kind of get your life back at the end of the day? [0:01:57]

CLIENT: Yeah, that�s it. It�s like, you�re just of (ph)� well so today, I mean, I�m teaching � I�m teaching the five kingdoms, which is mind numbing. I mean, it�s (chuckles) � it�s the least interesting part of biology, for me. So �

THERAPIST: It�s the � what is it?

CLIENT: The least interesting part of biology.

THERAPIST: But what did you call it? The five kingdoms? [0:02:35]

CLIENT: The five kingdoms. Oh, yeah. So Plantae, Animalia, Ubacteria (sp?), Protista, Fungi, and describing the differences between them. (pause) And it�s very language intensive, and it�s primarily Greek. So biology is a mix of Latin and Greek, but this particular area is primarily Greek roots, which means that Spanish speakers don�t have any intuition about the words. So it�s especially taxing.

And also, it seems� (pause) I don�t know � I guess � I mean, they need to learn it. I mean, that�s the thing, right? I always have to remind myself kids � I have the advantage of going through it thinking well, I mean, I know what this is about and I�m choosing not to care about it. But they need to have that choice. They need to � (laughing) they need to � they need to learn it first and then decide whether they want to keep it in their brain or not. I keep having to tell myself, okay, they�re 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 years old, and so I�m the one who has to present this stuff possibly for the very first time to them. [0:04:00]

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah.

CLIENT: Even though in my mind, I�m certainly not excited about it. But I have to rev myself up. Anyway...

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. What is it � what is that � it just occurred to me that that�s an interesting way to put it, like you have to � you (inaudible at 0:04:27) they � or they need to have � they need to learn it first and then they can have the choice.

CLIENT: Correct.

THERAPIST: But it�s almost like you have to � you�re sort of in the position of having to � of � (inaudible at 0:04:42) learn it, but they have to � you�re in the position of making them learn it before they get to � yeah.

CLIENT: That�s it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And how is that � how is that for in that position, though, to be the one doing that � the enforcer? I don�t know if you�d characterize it that way, but something to that effect. The guy that�s � [0:05:10]

CLIENT: Yeah. Well (pause) today, fortunately, there weren�t any real behavior issues. So that was good. I mean, if there were issues with kids just being incredibly boisterous and (inaudible at 0:05:36) and just annoying, then that would�ve been (inaudible). But today, they seemed to be (audio gap) along. And so it made (pause) � it made the whole topic less stressful for me because I would have to deal with their bad behavior and my, sort of, disinterest in the topic. Because if you have to sort of rev yourself up to act excited and then they�re not into school that day, not just � and not just in my class, but any class � they�re just sort of not doing school that day, then it�s sort of like, ow, geez, what�s the point? [0:06:20]

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible)

CLIENT: So � and one thing when I got this morning, there was a feeling � so anyway, yesterday (inaudible at 0:06:27). And last week, Sebastian � and I like Sebastian a lot. He�s very funny � he � I brought � I had some � I had a bag of stick pretzels. And so he asked if he could have some, so I gave him a (audio gap). Then he saw the honey that I put in yogurt, and he goes, �Oh, mister, can I put honey on the pretzels?� And I said, �Yeah, sure.� So he poured honey on the pretzels.

And he said, �Oh, mister, this is (audio gap).� Right? And I said, �Really?� So he handed me one and I went, �That�s pretty damn good.� So then I�m at Trader Joe�s yesterday and in the (audio gap) pretzels. And I�m like, �Sebastian!� So I bought this bag of honey pretzels. So anyway � [0:07:18]

THERAPIST: Not honey mustard pretzels, but honey pretzels?

CLIENT: Honey. Honey, yeah. Just honey. Sweet � or slightly sweat. I mean, not as sweat as if you pour honey on them like he did, which is (inaudible 0:07:30). So I bought these bag of pretzels, right? So then � but they�re jumbo. They�re like four inches long and thick diameter, like � it�s like half of a pencil. That�s how big they are. So he comes in after school, as he always does. And I hand him some and I said, �Just taste � just taste those, Sebastian.� So he tasted them, and he goes, �Oh, mister.� (laughter) [0:07:56]

Anyway, so this morning when I�m lying � I � this morning when I was (inaudible) morning and I�m tired even though I went to bed at 8 o�clock last night, I thought, �Okay. I�m just going to come in, and he will be excited about the honey pretzels. And it matters because I genuinely like Sebastian. And it�s like � it�s funny how that is. There can be so many kids who are just taxing, taxing, taxing, but that one kid who I genuinely (audio gap) it�s like, okay. That makes me happy. (pause) Anyway, so he was very impressed by the honey pretzels. And then he said, �What if we put honey on the honey pretzels?� And I said, �Sure.� (laughter) That was over the top, and he thought that was the best (crosstalk). [0:08:58]

THERAPIST: Yeah. No, but I hear it, too. It�s like in some way, there�s a � it�s such a � it�s such a � it�s such a difference than the kind of potential for antagonistic � not a drag down, throw down fight kind of way, but some antagonism about you being the guy that�s got to make them do the work that they don�t want to do (crosstalk) kind of ease and kind of like, �Hey, we can � we can agree on this one� or something. (chuckles)

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I also � and Sebastian�s never a problem, right? I mean, she�s always entertaining. He always, for the most part, does his work. He has his off days. But (pause) it�s like, and � [I don�t know] (ph). This was two months ago, I guess. Because I expect a lot of him, and also I know him better, when (inaudible 0:09:55), I find it annoying. And I find it less annoying lately because he is usually on the ball. And if he�s not, it�s sort of like, well, I�ll just treat him like another student. It�s like, well, you�re not doing your work, so I mean, you just don�t get that many points. So that�s the way it is. [0:10:14]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But � so two months ago, I�m sort of irritated with him and I have to tell him, in class, that he has to work. So he stops everything. He�s very dramatic. He said, �Mister �� He goes, �You never see the good in me. You only see the bad.� He goes, �You know how many good things I do?� (laughing) And I couldn�t help but smile. I said, �Really, Sebastian?� He goes, �Yes.� He goes, �Your class would be a disaster if it wasn�t for me.� And I said, �Really?� And he goes, �Yes.� (inaudible at 0:10:54) he�s going on about all the good things I do, but I don�t see that. I only see the bad things. And of course, other kids were laughing because he�s sort of getting all this attention for being amusing, which he is. Anyway, �You only see the bad things.�

THERAPIST: That�s so interesting. His name�s Sebastian. (chuckles) [0:11:13]

CLIENT: And he�s Sebastian. Exactly. (laughing)

THERAPIST: So, I mean, it just � there�s something about, though � going along with what we�ve been saying, we�ve been talking about these, if you can only see the good part, you only see the bad parts. And something about how we�ve been talking about � like Sebastian talking about his own self � these various states of his own, like what (inaudible 0:11:42) side of him, but he feels like he�s got other side � other sides to him. He�s got honey, too. He�s not just got the stick.

CLIENT: (laughter)

THERAPIST: (laughing) Something about that.

CLIENT: (laughter)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So then I got this other kid who, he�s funny because he�s � his name�s Enrique and he is very stylish. He reminds me a lot of my friend Derek, in high school, in terms of how he looks. The Spanish version of Derek instead of an Irish version of Derek. And very cool, stylish hair. He�s a soccer player, so he�s got that sort of Spanish soccer player (audio gap). And he�s very quiet, but very self-assured, very conscientious, very respectful. And he�s very popular and cool and people like him. But he kind of sticks to himself, and he does all the work and he really tries. [0:12:47]

(pause) So he, just through sheer hard work and sort of intention to do well, he ends up having a B+ or an Ain class, which is a big deal, because his English is like a level two as opposed to a level three. So English is definitely more difficult for him than other kids, but he works really hard. So � and so I tend to cut him a slack a little bit, and � in the sense that � I don�t know. If you like a kid, if they have their phone out, you don�t bust them the first time. You sort of are little gentler about it. Because in his case, he usually doesn�t. So you sort of assume since he doesn�t always try to get the phone out, if he does have it out, it might be for a good reason, like he is legitimately actually checking the time. Whereas other kids, it�s just this constant battle. So it�s little things like that. [0:13:59]

Anyway, so after class last week, he�s leaving � he�s always sort of the last to leave. And so he�s leaving. He said, �Mister �� He said, �I want to be a teacher someday. I want to be a teacher like you.� And (laughing) I looked at him and I said, �That�s very nice, Enrique. You�re going to need a lot of patience.� (laughing) And he laughed. But how interesting. I didn�t see that coming.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 0:14:36) for you.

CLIENT: Well (pause) it made me happy because I thought, at least one student (audio gap) think I�m a pain in (audio gap). (inaudible at 0:14:50).

THERAPIST: Oh, uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. [0:14:54]

CLIENT: In the sense that I�m consistent. I�m always there. I try to always be the same. I try to be amusing. I try to be real. (pause) Anyway �

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I make a point of, when kids are doing well in class, on their way out, I�ll tell them, (inaudible 0:15:20) �Good work today.� So with Enrique, I think most days, (inaudible) going out, as I do with other kids, it�s like, �Hey, nice job.� (pause) Anyway, so there�s this other kid. His name is Joe and he�s � I�ve probably described him before. He�s the kid who�s from Honduras. Raised by his grandparents, and then he was involved in � with a murder in Honduras.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: So then his grandparents said that he was going to go get to visit his parents in Waltham ticket.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:16:08]

CLIENT: So anyway, so he�s had difficulties, clearly, emotionally, not to mention the fact that he came here with very little English. And he always walks into class late and he often is really tired. And he�s often got his headphones, which I have to tell him to put them away. And he�ll usually start class late and he�ll try to do the (inaudible at 0:16:40). So he�ll start class, the first ten minutes or so. And then, he just, for some reason, just (pause) puts his head � his head goes. And he�s sort of � he�s out. [0:16:56]

Well, so Enrique, now, has moved seats. And somehow I feel like he � I think Enrique did this on his own. I�m not sure why, exactly. But Enrique used to sit toward the front. And now Enrique sits in the very back with Joe. But Enrique, he will sometimes raise his hand and point to him, and I�ll come back and �

THERAPIST: Joe?

CLIENT: He�ll � so Enrique will point to Joe.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay. Right (ph).

CLIENT: And so � and I�ll go back there. And Enrique, in an amused � not irreverent way, but just sort of an older brother sort of way, even though they�re the same age, Enrique will want me to wake Joe up. And then Joe will wake up. And then Enrique, in Spanish, will just sort of bust his balls, and then Enrique will stay (audio gap) � Joe will stay awake. And then Joe � Enrique will help Joe with his classwork. [0:18:14]

And Enrique will � often, I can tell he really sort of busts Joe, and Joe kind of has to defend himself. So he sort of looks to me like, �How can � how can you let Enrique say this stuff to me?� Enrique will say to Joe, he goes, �You�re lazy.� And Joe will look to me like, �That�s not a nice thing to say.� And I sort of shrug my shoulders, and Enrique says, �It�s true.� So all the sudden, Enrique has taken it upon himself to just be like the strong arm of the law, like in a street sense � I can�t do it in the way that Enrique can do it, because he�s a peer. He�s kind of just basically saying to Joe, �You got to shape up, brother.�

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And so it�s like �

THERAPIST: Yeah, like he took an interest in going all the way back there to be...

CLIENT: That�s it. [0:19:16]

THERAPIST: To help (inaudible).

CLIENT: And Enrique sometimes will just [shake his] (ph) head, in just � in disappointment. And it�s genuine.

THERAPIST: Disappoint in what? Himself?

CLIENT: No, in � Enrique will shake his head in disappointment with Joe.

THERAPIST: Oh, Enrique to Joe. Okay. Yeah, right. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. And it�s like (audio gap) with a smile, necessarily. It�s just sort of like � it�s sort of like just calling a spade a spade. Like, �I�m trying to show interest in you. I�m (audio gap) you and you�re not doing anything, so � there�s only so much a person can do.� And it�s very interesting watching that dynamic, because Enrique doesn�t � I mean, he does just as much work as he has always done, which is everything. But in addition to that, he�s taken upon himself to keep Joe awake. And sometimes Joe will put his head down, and Enrique will just kick his chair.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Right? Like, I can�t kick Joe�s chair, but Enrique can. And I can look the other way when he does it. [0:20:21]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But � yeah. He�s kind of keeping him [in line] (ph) (inaudible) way.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But in a kind of � you�re saying some way � some way only a � it�s a different kind of feeling to have a peer do it than � yeah, then this kind of � I don�t know. This voice from the outside � someone that he feels can identify with him a bit more. Yeah, no. Right. And it has this dramatically different effect than if you did it, right? Is that what you�re �

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Oh, absolutely.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Huh.

CLIENT: And it�s also because Enrique is just this really cool guy.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Right? So he just has this sort of natural respect because he�s stylish and looks good and plays soccer well, and he also happens to be a good student. [0:21:20]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got it. But it�s a different kind of authority, yeah, than �

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Huh. One that�s more digestible to him � to Joe, in some way, than you�d know � if it�s a teacher doing it.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Hmm. (pause) On Friday, the math class (pause) so biology, I knew what I was doing and that�s fine. And usually, even if I totally wing it, it doesn�t come across as winging it because (pause) I have enough of a toolkit to just sort of (inaudible) kids don�t know any different. [0:22:26]

But on Friday, with math, I was just � it was just a bad class. It was just a bad class. I think it was the first bad class that I really have every really done, in terms of I wanted to show a video. I couldn�t find the video. I wanted to teach this thing, but it was totally off target. And it was just disjointed. It was just � the kids were surprisingly okay with it. And maybe it was because it was Friday, they were sort of happy not to have to do too much. Because I was up there trying to find the video and trying to find the thing I wanted to show them, and the minutes were passing. And I was doing this and I was doing that, and we�re kind of jumping form topic to topic. [0:23:14]

So (laughing) toward the end of class, I said, �All right guys. So you guys showed up today, and I didn�t. My bad.� (laughing) I said, �I didn�t do my homework. This was a bad class and it�s on me. And I�ll do better on Monday.� And I said, �Have a good weekend.� (chuckles) Anyway, and so on Monday � or today � class started, and I�m like, �All right. So we�re shifting gear.� And I said, �I apologize again for Friday. I know that was sort of a waste of time.� And I feel like somehow, that got more kids on my side than usual. I mean, (inaudible) they are a very chatty class. And somehow I feel like they sort of respected a teaching just sort of saying, �Yeah, my bad. I screwed up. That was a disaster. And it�s totally on me.� [0:24:14]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Which it was. Anyway, so today�s class went quite smoothly and people were focused and it�s like, �Huh. That�s interesting.�

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that you just came out and kind of acknowledged something to them, sort of � huh.

CLIENT: Yeah, and also maybe it highlighted, too, yeah, teachers have to prepare. And if they don�t (audio gap) (laughing) you know? So maybe it highlighted � it�s like, �Oh yeah. He really does have to prepare. And class usually is really good and that day wasn�t, and clearly, he didn�t prepare. So oh, when class does go well, it means he actually has to prepare for it.� Maybe that was � I didn�t make that clear, but maybe that was the inference � maybe that was the implication. [0:25:13]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. And I suppose � I suppose kind of the implicit message, too, is like, �Hey, we all got to work at (inaudible at 25:24). (chuckles)

CLIENT: Yeah. (inaudible) Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Huh.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and I don�t � sometimes I don�t have it in the tank (ph) or (audio gap).

CLIENT: Hm. Hm. Hm. (pause) You know, (crosstalk) �

THERAPIST: And that was the math class? That was the class where they�re � it�s � those are the � it�s like the honors class, right?

CLIENT: It�s the � yeah. Well, ostensibly.

THERAPIST: Ostensibly? (chuckles) Yeah.

CLIENT: (Chuckles) There�s like � yeah, five of the 20 kids are honors students. The rest of them, I�m not sure what�s going on.

THERAPIST: Right, right.

CLIENT: But what�s interesting � so I�m telling you all about work right now, and yet I�m quite happy to do it. And I�m thinking, well, I could talk about Barbara and me and this weekend, but then the thought of that feels like, eh, that�s no fun. [0:26:25]

THERAPIST: Mmm. Hm.

CLIENT: I don�t know.

THERAPIST: Yeah? What (inaudible at 26:31) fun?

CLIENT: Well, so she was working on Saturday, and then Sunday... (pause) I don�t know. It�s just somehow � I don�t know. She was just in a bad mood, and � but when she�s in a bad mood, she doesn�t really acknowledge she�s in a bad mood. It just sort of is her nitpicking on me. And � anyway...

THERAPIST: Yeah? And � yeah, you�re � but you�re feeling like, what? It�s like, it�s not fun to talk about?

CLIENT: It�s not fun to talk about. It�s sort of like � it also feels like, well � it also feels like, well, if work is work and my home life is my real (audio gap) then if my real life happens to be yesterday when I�m not working and I�m with Barbara and it was taxing and stressful, then it�s like, oh, then my (inaudible at 0:27:30) self is sort of unpleasant. So then work becomes a distraction. [0:27:36]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: I wouldn�t have thought that this morning, waking up. But after the fact � school�s amusing. It goes along. It�s predictable enough. At least I know what I�m teaching. I know � I know what we�re going to do in class. I know what they�re going to do. Whereas with Barbara, (laughing) it�s not like �

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: It�s not like with students.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Right.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. And unpredictable, for [certain. For certain.] (ph)

CLIENT: So then � anyway, so in the morning, I�m not sure � she said something that I found irritating. And then we go to Trader Joe�s to do our normal, weekly shop. And on the way back, we were going to go to the gym, but then it was sunny out. And we�re like, maybe even though we want to work out hard, maybe we can just take a walk and [we�ll get] (ph) some sunshine. [0:28:49]

So I said, �Well, walk around the ponds twice, but if we do, we have to do it vigorously.� And she said, �Yeah. That�s a good idea.� So we parked and then she had to pee, but the Port-A-Potty was nasty, so she wouldn�t pee in it, which meant she had to walk three and a half miles having to pee, but couldn�t. So I was regaling her with all of my new linguistics knowledge for three and a half miles, partly because I just felt like saying it and partly because I felt like distracting her from having to pee.

THERAPIST: (chuckles)

CLIENT: So (laughing) I�m basically � I�m recounting two thirds of a college linguistics course.

THERAPIST: Really? Huh. [0:29:32]

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, (inaudible) University of New Mexico has this linguistics course through iTunes, so I�m watching that � taking that. So I was � I basically started from the very beginning and taught her linguistics over the course of three and a half miles.

THERAPIST: What�s the � what�s the linguistics class on? Is it like a general...

CLIENT: Yeah, well, it�s iTunes U, so it�s a � it�s like a � it�s like the first linguistics course for linguistic majors at University of New Mexico.

THERAPIST: Oh, that�s so cool.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Crosstalk).

THERAPIST: Is the (crosstalk) good?

CLIENT: She is good, although the only problem with it is that she tends � they don�t have a lanyard mic that�s connected to the recording of the iTunes class. It�s only � it only picks up ambient sounds. And she likes to walk around, so sometimes the sound gets rather distant because she walks away from the podium, which is bad (audio gap). I�m sure (inaudible) next time, just because she can hear herself doesn�t mean that we can hear her. But it�s a good course. And it�s basic, but (audio gap). [0:30:51]

So I was telling her all this and that was fine. We get back home. And somehow, I feel that she�s just generally sort of annoyed or something. So then I get back. I�ve recorded the Formula One race in Bahrain. So I sit down to watch the Formula One race. I�m watching Formula (audio gap). She�s talking on the phone in the other room, back home, as she does on Sundays, to Ireland. And then she gets out the ironing board, ironing her scrubs. And she hates to iron the scrubs. And I know this, but she doesn�t say anything about it. She�s just ironing her scrubs. And (pause) � so then I thought, well, I do have two pair of cotton trousers that actually (audio gap) iron, so I call out to her. I said, �When you�re done, just leave the ironing board out, because I�m going to iron a couple pair of pants.� [0:31:58]

I didn�t think anything of it. I just � just a matter of fact. Like, eh, no biggie. (inaudible) iron (inaudible) pants. No biggie. And her response is, �You never iron.� (pause) And I said, �No, that�s not true. I�m just going to iron some pants.� She goes, �You�ve never ironed. In nine years, you�ve never ironed.� (pause) So then I�m like, �Why is she so angry? And I said, �Barbara � �

THERAPIST: Is she just � she�s kind of agitated or something?

CLIENT: I said, �Barbara, you�re just factually wrong. You know that I have ironed.� �You�ve never ironed.� I said, �Barbara, in point of fact, I�ve ironed many times. And also, I have actually ironed your scrubs one day because you didn�t want to and I did it for you.� She goes, �You�ve never ironed.� 32:57 And I�m like � it�s baffling to me that she�s using the word �never.� And also, all I asked was to (laughing) � I just want to iron a pair of pants. No biggie. [0:33:11]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So why is she going after me? What�s the big deal? This doesn�t affect her. It�s not inconveniencing her at all. Because what actually � it makes (inaudible) if I iron, that means I have to put away the iron and I have to put away the ironing board, right? So it makes her life easier if I (crosstalk).

THERAPIST: Right. It�s kind of good news, here, for her.

CLIENT: Yeah. Good news for her.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: So then I said, �Barbara, this, you should remember. Do you remember when I bought a new white dress shirt and we had the old iron and the old iron stained the collar and I had just taken it out of the package? Was that me ironing, or was that you? Who put the stain on the shirt?� (pause) She goes, �Well �� she goes, �Yeah.� She goes, �You ironed once.� �Well, even if it were only once, once is more than never. And even if it were more than (audio gap) in the scope of the infinitude of time, one is greater than (audio gap).� [0:34:28]

She�s like, �I don�t know why you�re making such (ph) a big deal out of it.� I�m like, �Because I have to defend myself against a lie!� I said, �Why don�t you tell the truth? You know that I�ve ironed. And why is this such a big deal to you? All I want to do is iron (laughing) a couple pairs of pants. If anything, it�s helpful to you.� She goes, �Well, I�m bored with this.� And [I said,] (ph) �You�re bored? I�m irritated, and you�re the one who started it!� Anyway, I just found it so baffling to have to defend myself (inaudible) that she was so adamant that I have never ironed, which is just flatly wrong. And I don�t even know why she thinks that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, or why (crosstalk).

CLIENT: I have no idea � no idea why she thinks I�ve never ironed. And why does it matter to her? So then I said, �The problem is, when you make these comments, which you will tell yourself is joking, you know if you�re honest with yourself, you�re not joking.� I said � [0:35:30]

THERAPIST: Yeah, right. There�s something more to it, going on.

CLIENT: There�s something more to it. �And never is it a case where you are going to lie or exaggerate to paint me in a good light. You will lie and exaggerate or misremember and it�s always putting me in a negative light.� And I said, �Why is that the (audio gap)? How would you like it if I just sort of periodically and randomly made (audio gap) up and just out of the blue said something that was negative about you and you knew it wasn�t true? (pause) Like, �You�ve never made curry,�� to which she would go apeshit, because she likes making curry. It�s like, of course you�re going to defend yourself against that. [0:36:22]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I said (laughing) � so I said, �In this wide world, we have to do all kinds of stuff. Why (ph) is it between us, we have to actually deal with defending ourselves against stuff?� And I said, �By the � I did not initiate this. You�re the one who was so adamant about me never, ever having ironed. Why did you stick to your guns, even after saying such a thing? Why were you so adamant that I�ve never ironed? Why did it matter so much, that I be seen as someone who never ironed?� (pause)

THERAPIST: What did she say?

CLIENT: She can�t tolerate that sort of sustained conversation, because she � because she goes ballistic. And I said, �And if you want, you can call my mom right now. Because the fact is, I enjoy ironing. And you can ask her and she�ll tell you from the age of eight, I ironed all my own clothes. As soon as it was safe to actually use an iron, I ironed all my own clothes, and my mom will verify that.� And I said, �In addition, my dad does the (audio gap). There�s a tradition of the men in my family. Not only do we do laundry, I iron clothes!� (laughter) [0:37:46]

THERAPIST: It�s a well-worn (ph) tradition. (chuckles)

CLIENT: Yeah. So I was like, we don�t mind � it�s like, my mom washes tons of stuff. My dad washes clothes. It�s like, my dad � it�s easy, right? How hard is it just to throw stuff in the washing machine and dryer? It�s not a big deal.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean (audio gap) thing. He does the laundry. (pause) Now, he has strong opinions about how the laundry gets done and he�s very specific about what detergent to use and how much and he will tell you very carefully if you�re doing it (audio gap). But it�s his thing.

THERAPIST: Is that right? Okay. Huh.

CLIENT: Yeah. So he takes it seriously.

THERAPIST: And what is it, though � when she said that to you, initially, as she � what did you detect in her tone towards you? What did you kind of feel �

CLIENT: Well, I felt like �

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 38:43) in other words. You were getting into that a little bit, like this (crosstalk) � [0:38:47]

CLIENT: I feel � so it�s tinged with this anger and negativity. And I feel like (pause) � I feel like � I feel like it�s a class thing in England where her dad was always at the bar (ph?) � always at the pub, drinking. (Audio gap) was always doing stupid things. Things (audio gap). Cars got smashed. He was always sort of making mistakes. And so when her mom left, Barbara had to take care of the house. Because her mom, when she was 16, just took off � just took off for a year and lived with some other guy for a year.

THERAPIST: Is that right? I never knew that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Very strange. Her mom (crosstalk).

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk). [0:39:38]

CLIENT: But anyway, the bottom line is, Barbara is studying for her A-levels (sp?) and having to take care of the house and wondering where her mom is and taking care of � having to take care of her dad and chase him down to the pub. So she�s cooking dinner and going to school and studying for A-levels. So I feel like every time � every time I�m not being super productive... meaning (ph) she is obsessive about taking care of things. So there she is. She�s ironing. And she�s cleaning. She�s always doing something. Just can�t sit down. Anyway, so there I am. I�m like, �Hey, I�ve worked all week. I�m going to watch Formula One.�

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. Okay.

CLIENT: Right? But she�s in there doing (inaudible). [0:40:32]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: Right? So there�s that. But it�s not like I should be doing her scrubs. It�s just sort of � she�s doing her scrubs, and I�m watching Formula One, and (inaudible). So I feel like � I feel like she sees men as being a letdown, which is also � that is a class thing in Ireland, right? The men are always at the pub. And her dad was always at the pub. Well, I am not at the pub. And I�m reliable. I�m not going anywhere. I�m not � I�m just kind of a steady guy, who�s here. But I�m sitting on the couch, watching Formula One. I don�t know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I feel like whatever irritation she has with men being lazy, she puts on me.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yep.

CLIENT: And it�s sort of like, (chuckle) I wasn�t doing anything. I wasn�t doing anything. (pause) [0:41:38]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, it just � just came out of �

CLIENT: Meanwhile �

THERAPIST: Yeah, her � she was �

CLIENT: Well �

THERAPIST: Yeah. No, she was just feeling that. She was just aware of some sort of feeling about men. And kind of � well, yeah, transferred it to you. Yeah. For certain.

CLIENT: But what I don�t get... (pause) And I�m sure maybe I do the same thing. [I guess] (ph) maybe it�s � maybe I do do the same thing. I don�t know. But it�s sort of like, I�m so clearly not her dad. Although maybe she thinks I am. Maybe I am like him in some way. I don�t know. (pause) [0:42:30]

Except he was tiny. He was jockey tiny. Five feet tall and 100 pounds � just this itty, bitty guy. I�m the opposite, clearly. (pause) (inaudible) Anyway... (pause) Once that�s in the house � once that�s the dynamic, it�s like, how do you shift gears, right? Anyway...

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Well, what � yeah, what kind of � what unfolded from there?

CLIENT: Well, so then I�m just � I�m just irritated. And then I�m just � I�m not a level 10 angry. I�m just sort of like a level seven, just sort of like, this is just annoying, but whatever. So then I�m like, all right. What am I going to do? (inaudible 43:32) now it�s 4:00 in the afternoon. It�s Sunday and I�m dealing with the fact that it�s Sunday, and � which always sucks for a teacher � the feeling of shit (ph). [0:43:42]

THERAPIST: Yeah, Monday�s coming.

CLIENT: Monday�s coming. So I�m dealing with that. And then she wants (audio gap) sand and all that � snow shovels, all that put away. And she didn�t say it, but I knew she [said that] (ph). And so I�m like, �All right. Fine. I�ll do that.� So I go. I fix the garage door, which needed to be fixed. I fixed the garage door. I put away the sand. I put away the salt. I hurt my back in the process, which irritates me because now I feel like... (pausing) I�m really nursing it because I feel like (inaudible) had to lift this 80 pound bag of sand from the ground and I feel like � 80 pounds is not that bad, but when you�re lifting it from the ground and you�ve got a history of a back issue � so then I�m like, �Oh, God, help me. (inaudible) again.� [0:44:38]

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah. Right.

CLIENT: Right? So then I�m like, �God damn it.� If I weren�t mad at her, I would�ve asked for her help and we would�ve somehow finagled this thing together. But because I was mad at her, I tried to lift the whole 80-pound thing, and I did. But it�s like, in the process, might have messed up my back, so I�m sort of worried about that. And anyway...

Then I came back in. Called my mom to say hey. Talked to my dad. Talked to my sister. My dad was going on about the Game of Thrones, which was boring to me because I don�t (audio gap) I�ve never watched it, but was trying to summarize � he was trying to basically tell me everything about Game of Thrones, and that�s fine. I just happened not to have seen it. It doesn�t really sound like my cup of tea, because I�m not into dragons. [0:45:43]

So anyway � so he did that. He talked about NASCAR. He was irritated with � irritated with the rule change in NASCAR. He talked about Dale Earnhardt, Junior, as usual, because he likes Dale Earnhardt, Junior. Talked to my mom. That was very funny, because she�s always very funny. We talked about CNN and the missing plane. We talked about the cast of characters on CNN who their job specifically is to talk about the plane, but now we really like these people. I don�t know if you watch CNN.

THERAPIST: The CNN people?

CLIENT: The CNN people. So there�s this cast of characters that I like, and they talk about the plane nonstop, because CNN has really, really taken this story under its wing.

THERAPIST: (inaudible). [0:46:36].

CLIENT: Yeah, (inaudible), exactly. Precisely. (inaudible). And � because meanwhile, The New York Times, good luck finding anything about the plane because it�s been totally backburner because, of course, life goes on. There�s other issues in the world. But CNN �

THERAPIST: Oh, but CNN keeps going. Yeah.

CLIENT: CNN is nonstop airplane. And I think that the people who discuss the airplanes must have been really confused and 46:58 for about a day and a half over the Fort Hood shooting, because all of the sudden, the plane was pushed to the background. And mom and I were talking about, �What did they do? Did they hang out in the green room? Did CNN tell them, it�s like, �This Fort Hood thing is a pretty big deal. You got two days to get out of your hotel room, guys, and we�re just going to � or we�re not going to pay?� What�s the treatment of the people, right?� [0:47:21]

So then we were talking about how we how we really (inaudible) like them. And I told my mom, I said, �Even when this whole plane thing dies down or they find it or whatever. (inaudible) in Australia and they can�t send the ships and planes out anymore and the story really kind of goes away, we need to have a spinoff show. CNN needs to have an hour each night where these guys � the same people just talk about whatever.� And then I said, �What would be really great is you have all of these pilots and (inaudible) people who we�ve grown to love during when we have the NFL season, they just have an hour a week, and they just talk NFL.� (laughing) And we have � so we have this English guy. His name�s Samuel Lewis. And so he�s (laughing) really dramatic. Any time anybody says anything, he leaps out of his chair.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: (laughing) (inaudible) just like this guy, Samuel Lewis. And his specialty is aeronautics. (laughing) And all the sudden, (inaudible) running backs and (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Oh (laughing) yeah.

CLIENT: (laughing) (inaudible) we�d like the characters. We�d like these people. They could talk about anything. We�ll listen to them. [0:48:30]

THERAPIST: Hmm. Hmm.

CLIENT: My mom thought that was a great idea, to have a spinoff show. And they were talking about (inaudible) the plane is intact on the water, how unlikely would that be. But then if that�s the case, (inaudible) referenced the scariest movie I saw as a kid, so I was seven. �Airport �77� came out where the plane landed on the water and then sank. (pause)

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk).

CLIENT: Did you � did you ever see that? �Airport �77�?

THERAPIST: No. No, nuh-uh.

CLIENT: Oh, Jesus. So yeah, (crosstalk).

THERAPIST: I mean, I remember the movie, but I don�t � I never saw it. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. So my parents, for some reason when I was a child, didn�t have a problem just taking me to whatever movie they wanted to see. (chuckle) So � yeah, so as a young child, I saw �Jaws.� I saw �Airport �77� where a 747 lands on the water and it sinks to the bottom of the ocean. No good there. Also, as a young child, saw �One Flew Over the Cuckoo�s Nest� because my mom and dad wanted to go see it. Anyway, I saw lots of stuff that I shouldn�t have seen. Anyway � [0:49:42]

THERAPIST: Oh, wow. Yeah. Right, right.

CLIENT: So anyway, I said, � So maybe it�s Airport 77. Maybe the plane landed and it sank.� But the only problem with that is, a plane (audio gap) and in �Airport �77,� it landed in the Bermuda Triangle. So it only went down about a hundred feed and it rested on the bottom of the ocean. But a plane (chuckling) sinking down 14,000 feet is going to get crushed.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah. Right.

CLIENT: Right. Because of the pressure.

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk).

CLIENT: So anyway, we ruled that out. (pause) Anyway, so mom�s very amusing. Good times. Left them laughing. (inaudible) my sister. And so that cheered me up.

THERAPIST: But yeah, kind of tonic from all that stuff with Barbara, too, huh? [0:50:29]

CLIENT: Yeah. Oh, this is the thing that kicked it off! This is the bloody thing that happened. So we�re sitting in the � this is the morning time. So I�m sitting on the couch, watching the news. She comes in. She looks at my stack of New Yorkers (pause). And she says, �Are you ever going to read those?� And I said, �Well, I would like to go through them.� And she goes, �We should just donate them.� And I said, �Barbara, it�s not like we have piles and piles of piles, like National Geographics. It�s like, this is the previous year�s New Yorker�s.� And I say, �One of the great pleasures � top five pleasures in life � is reading the New Yorker cartoons. (pause) [0:51:20]

And she didn�t get it. And it�s like, �So we�re not getting rid of the magazines?� (inaudible) �Well, you never read them.� Again, the word never! And I�m like, �Well, that�s not true. I do. And it�s hard to keep up with them because they come every week, but I don�t want to get rid of them because I actually do want to go through and read all the cartoons, which takes me all of five minutes to go through and (inaudible) general sense of the magazine and after that, that�s fine.� (inaudible at 51:53). Is it unreasonable to think of having a year�s worth of New Yorkers? I mean, it�s not like I have 10 years of New Yorkers. I have one year. It�s not even a year. Anyways, I�m like, �Jesus Christ!�

THERAPIST: Yeah. No, it just sounds like this (crosstalk) � yeah.

CLIENT: �Why do you want to get rid of my New Yorkers? Fuck you.�

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. [0:52:10]

CLIENT: And the fact that she didn�t even get the idea there are cartoons in there. It�s like, that irritated the shit (sp). (audio gap) I�m like, �God, damn it. I�m with somebody that doesn�t (audio gap) New Yorker. We get the New Yorker, but she doesn�t (inaudible) New Yorker. (Audio gap) cannot comprehend the wonder of the New Yorker cartoons.

THERAPIST: Well, I think � I think (audio gap) I mean, it�s like � it�s something that we�ve been � we�ve been (audio gap) talking about a bit, is the � is kind of what it brings up for you to kind of � gah � to bring � to bring about aspects of who you are that she doesn�t � she doesn�t care for. Or (audio gap) in the case of the � kind of the transference, bring up something that really, really upsets her, like �Yeah, boy, that something that you�re doing right now kind of reminds me (laughing) of my father� without her saying that. [0:53:14]

But I was just thinking about � what it � I think � what I was thinking about were all these ways in which � that you end up feeling like certain things that you�re bringing � you�re bringing to light about yourself, at least, with, say, the New Yorker is kind of dealt with by her in � with a certain � that she ends up treating it like, �I don�t even know what you�re talking about. That doesn�t make any sense to me.� And... (pause) I guess (inaudible) I�m just thinking about what � how it then feels to you when she gives you a response like that. And how � I think what you end up feeling like is that there�s a lot of stuff about yourself that you just don�t � you don�t feel like (audio gap) you don�t want to share with her. She (chuckles) � there are certain ways she doesn�t � she doesn�t respond, for whatever reason. [0:54:18]

And I think it � I think it really does create some gaps between you two. I mean, not just � not just that she doesn�t get the New Yorker cartoon as much as I think it has to do with her kind of � it�s (audio gap) what I imagine (inaudible) been talking with her about linguistics, like, well, she wasn�t challenging � at least she didn�t bring it up that she was challenging you, that she was listening (chuckles) to you, as opposed to the New Yorker, where it�s like, �Why are you reading these things? Get rid of them.�

CLIENT: Well, it�s like what you mentioned last time about the boxes of books downstairs and the idea that she doesn�t want to actually know what�s in the box so they just look like a bunch of boxes.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that�s right. That�s right. The kind of not wanting to look into you and into that about you. Or I want to see you a certain way, and you try to tell her, �Listen, I�m not that way. I�m (laughing) not your father, and I�m not � I�m also (audio gap) New Yorker and has these sides to myself that you�re not seeing.� (pause) Yeah. [0:55:32]

CLIENT: Mm.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I know � I know we got to split (sp?) but it does seem to me like it�s reminding me of our discussions around these matters. And I�m also � I�m also like, it�s sort of like � it also sounds like (inaudible) thinking about you saying, �It feels like work (audio gap).� It is. It�s hard. I think this stuff is hard for you, to know that stuff (inaudible) can have an impact on you, the way she responds to you. And in some ways, I�m feeling like you�re like, �I just don�t want to share that with her. I don�t want � I don�t want her to go anywhere near it or I don�t want � I don�t want to be anywhere near her when I�m into that.� (pause) Well, listen. Yeah, I guess we need to stop, but... [0:56:40]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: Mm (ph).

THERAPIST: All right. All right. (inaudible) next week, then, okay?

CLIENT: Okay. Good. Bye, Frank.

THERAPIST: Okay. Good, (inaudible).

CLIENT: Okay. (inaudible) �

THERAPIST: (inaudible) �

END TRANSCRIPT