TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in. I'm just going to grab some water.

CLIENT: Sure. (PAUSE) It's been a bit of a hectic day.

THERAPIST: Hmm?

CLIENT: Yeah. Just a comedy of errors. I forgot my bike lock and I went to work and then I got home and I was going to a meeting. And I got my bike lock but I left my keys in my apartment. So it's just great. (LAUGHTER) Mismatching things. But I'm here.

(PAUSE) [00:01:00]

(PHONE RINGING)

CLIENT: Sorry. I'll turn that off. (PAUSE) I was talking to my parents this, yesterday or the day before, one of the two. And I mentioned for one of the few times that I was going on a date with someone (PAUSE) because I figured it's not great to lie. I shouldn't have to censor those things when I'm talking to them. [00:02:01]

And the response was pretty (PAUSE) tepid, I think is a good word. (PAUSE) So it was interesting to kind of test those waters again. It's been a while fortunately since that has come up. Again, it felt like an unwillingness to engage which is kind of hard to kind of see happen.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Did it make you feel sad?

CLIENT: (SIGH) (PAUSE) I don't know if it did. [00:03:03]

I think it made me feel mostly just resigned like just, "Okay. You tried. It didn't really take." You know, disappointed maybe.

(PAUSE) [00:03:57]

CLIENT: Yesterday I was doing a session. We were talking about endings and transitioning which was really interesting because we had to think about kind of our processes of ending and transitioning and it definitely made me think about how (PAUSE) there's a lot of things in life when I was growing up that there were endings that like couldn't be marked or they were kind of like (PAUSE) sort of just like hidden or... (PAUSE) Like when I would break up with someone in high school, I couldn't say anything to them because they didn't know or they didn't know we were dating or all of that. [00:05:07]

And sort of just thinking about how important it is for endings to be marked and acknowledged and how holistic they are and they can't really effectively be compartmentalized. And I know my parents are noticing my mood or emotions or personality kind of be off and, you know, they'd be a bit concerned potentially for that but never really totally a place to engage. But also how I think, you know, a lot of endings and transitions, I mentally try to make the transition before the thing has ended as kind of a way of not having it happen all at once. [00:06:09]

But I think at times that makes it hard to actually... Like if I'm in a program that's a week long, half way through the week, I start transitioning out of it and so it's hard to like enjoy the rest or kind of build on those relationships if I'm kind of like, "Oh, this is transitory. It'll be over and we'll be gone."

(PAUSE) [00:07:00]

CLIENT: It feels like there's a lot of like just small things going on that aren't... (PAUSE) Like I earlier this week had some kind of, some engagement with my kind of self-confidence issues. There's a person in my group that I really admire and that makes me feel really self-conscious at times. [00:08:03]

And so, that combined with still kind of like searching for what my niche per se of work is going to be and then feeling kind of a false sense of urgency to figure something out now. And then this time is very overwhelming is very overwhelming with papers and things at the end, at the end of this program. And I know that they're going to be seen by my credentialing committee. So I really need to put a lot of effort into getting them done and representative of kind of what I want to put forward. So I feel very jumbled. [00:09:05]

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: And this date on Friday is also a bit of, a bit stress inducing.

THERAPIST: Because?

CLIENT: So we met a month or so ago, two months. He was in town and we met up. We had a nice kind of night together and then we didn't talk for a while and then we started talking online and that's become really consistent and he's back in town for a night. And so, you know, we've been probably talking online for probably an average of an hour every day.

THERAPIST: That's a lot. [00:10:11]

CLIENT: Yeah. It is. Which has really surprised me.

THERAPIST: Did you meet him online?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: But it was kind of just like, "I have nothing to do tonight and he's in town. Let's go out for a drink kind of thing," not really expecting anything to come of it at all actually. And so it's a bit... (PAUSE) I, the idea of (PAUSE) you know, being in the same as him and kind of having the same affection or feelings towards him is very intimidating because he lives, you know, in D.C. and I have a hard time believing that relationships can really take root without proximity at the start. [00:11:23]

So it kind of feels like setting myself up for a lot of pain to kind of... Because I can definitely feel myself becoming, like growing an affection for him and, who knows, I don't know what it's going to be like to see him again. I'm hazarding, I guess, that I'll enjoy it. [00:11:59]

And so it's like all of my defense mechanisms are going up right now.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Because you don't want to get your hopes up and then be disappointed?

CLIENT: Because I don't want to realize that I have, that three's a lot of potential but our locations will make it really difficult for it to be realized and then, and that that'll be a hard process to kind of reconcile.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: I'm trying to tell myself that going in without expectations and with an openness to see what happens... One of the things that I really admire about our communication is that we're able to be really honest with each other. [00:13:09]

Which is something that I haven't really found to that degree in other relationships which is surprising considering how new our friendship is. So I definitely would feel comfortable discussing this, for example. (PAUSE) But, yeah, it definitely feels... Like, part of me is saying, "Just go in..." That you really have to risk something and put yourself out there for things to happen and for, or for things to be realized. But then other parts of me are screaming, "Don't do it. It'll just hurt in the end." [00:14:07]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Because you want something that you can't have and you'll feel that loss.

CLIENT: Mm hmm.

THERAPIST: It reminds me of the, your example of something that's a week long and half way through, not being able to enjoy it because you're anticipating the loss.

CLIENT: Mm hmm. Yeah. I think it's very, that's a very kind of common feeling I have. (PAUSE) I get it's important for me to feel secure in something or...

[00:15:05]

I don't know. If I'm going to invest a lot of myself in something, I feel like it needs to be enduring. But nothing is in enduring. That's one of the big lies. So...

THERAPIST: Lies?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Who's telling it?

CLIENT: The world. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: That things are permanent?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I think that's my teenage (inaudible at 00:15:45) coming out. Just everything is temporary.

THERAPIST: It's just different scales of temporary.

CLIENT: Exactly. And so that doesn't mean that... You know, things being temporary doesn't mean that we need to renounce them or not invest in them or that they don't have worth. [00:16:07]

It's the attachment that we cultivate for them that is the issue. And so how do we invest in something that we don't have attachment to or how do we risk having the attachment and suffering because of it? That's the dilemma. (PAUSE) And I'm pretty good at not being attached to a lot of things. But, yeah. I definitely feel... (SIGH) [00:17:03]

I think relationships are the, my most tender spot. I could care less about my possessions. They're good for their utility. That's about it.

(PAUSE) [00:18:00]

CLIENT: I think I also fear that in getting too close to someone, it's the classic like imposter syndrome of feeling just like if people get to know me, they won't like what they find in the middle.

THERAPIST: Do you have thoughts about what they wouldn't like or is it just a general feeling?

(PAUSE) [00:19:00]

CLIENT: I think it's most just they would realize that I'm less intelligent than they thought or less caring or less enjoyable to be around. (PAUSE) Yeah. (PAUSE) Because I definitely feel sometimes... I think (PAUSE) sometimes when people compliment my work, I'm thinking, "You don't really know what you're complimenting because it wasn't that good," or I feel like they're blowing it out of proportion to what it was. [00:20:05]

And I know a lot of that is kind of my own self-worth processes kind of working themselves out and not valuing my own contributions or whatnot and then compliments not really working because I feel like they don't actually know... We can't understand how other people perceive us. We can only understand our own perceptions of yourself and I think I'm very critical of myself. Like I led chapel today and people really appreciated it. [00:21:03]

And my initial like script was, "Well, anyone would like chapel because I turned down the lights and I played nature noises."

THERAPIST: And you played what?

CLIENT: Nature noises. And it's just like, and I used someone else's story. So if I had told my own story, it wouldn't have been as good. There were a lot of other parts in the service that I should have changed. So that's like, I get a compliment and that's my response is, "Well, obviously that's not the case," or... And then they say... You know, there's all those buzzwords that get under your skin and mine is creative. So whenever I get a compliment that I'm creative, I just like, I hate it, absolutely hate it. (LAUGHTER) [00:22:07]

THERAPIST: Does it feel like it's trite when people say it?

CLIENT: It just feels like novel doesn't mean profound.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I can do novel. I have thousands of ways that I can do novel but that doesn't mean that... Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good and creative, for me, is like novel. (PAUSE) It also feels like euphemistic. "That was creative."

THERAPIST: Like, "She has a nice personality."

CLIENT: Yeah. (LAUGHTER) [00:23:01]

And I don't actually think that people think that because I think generally the things that I do are actually creative. Well, I can say that recently. For a while, I didn't think I was creative at all. I did a whole piece on superheroes and today was all about darkness and... So there are elements of creativity in it and I value that in myself but it's definitely a trigger for me. And I know that the story people wanted copies of. I embellished it. Like I added a lot of it. I gave it life in a lot of ways that it didn't have life. And so that me doing that.

(PAUSE) [00:24:00]

CLIENT: But it's still... Yeah. (PAUSE) I forget how we started this. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Well, I asked you if there were specific things that you were worried that people wouldn't like (inaudible at 00:24:29)

CLIENT: Yeah. I feel like it's pretty specific.

THERAPIST: I remember the first session, you talked about fear of mediocrity. Is this related?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I think just the standards that I hold to myself are just so (PAUSE) like high. [00:24:57]

Like it has to be... If I'm going to do it, I try to make it the best thing ever, the best thing I've ever done (PAUSE) or that's my intention or that's the scale I measure it on. So when I do an average or even good job, it feels like a defeat because it wasn't the best it could be and then it also creates a lot of unnecessary competitive thinking of... You know, you're, another person's talent somehow becomes a threat which is ridiculous to think that I would think that or feel that. But it does feel that way sometimes. [00:25:59]

And so I have to keep having to remind myself, you know, this like, this isn't a competition. Like there's enough. There's enough space. There's enough resources. There's enough potential that you don't need to be defensive and that you don't need to take on or react to other people's gifts because, you know, in truth, what I love most is seeing people be able to use their gifts and not feel threatened but feel just joy for them. But sometimes those (inaudible at 00:27:01) just kind of pop up. [00:27:03]

THERAPIST: Have you always feel that way? (PAUSE) Sorry.

CLIENT: I don't know if I have. (PAUSE) I think I definitely have only been super conscious of it in the last, I don't know, probably since high school. [00:28:03]

But, yeah. (PAUSE) And I think that's actually, come to think of it, that scarcity feeling, I wonder how underlying that is actually.

(PAUSE) [00:29:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. I think that's one thing that like with my relationship with my parents this is like there enough time or affection or regard for me.

(PAUSE) [00:30:00]

CLIENT: Because I think because I felt distanced from them (PAUSE) it might have felt harder to (PAUSE) or that there was a more prescribed way to feel love or to gain affection or because I wasn't in that script, there was a need to play into it or other people were taking away. I don't know if I believe that or if it's just the thought that's coming up.

(PAUSE) [00:31:01]

CLIENT: I know that theologically, the abundance mentality is one that's central to my theology as is the impermanence one. (SIGH)

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: And yet it's hard to emotionally embrace still.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's very difficult. It's that disconnect between what we know to be true and what we feel which is a big one for me. [00:32:17]

THERAPIST: Will you be going, in August, will you be going to stay with your parents?

CLIENT: For a week. Yeah. The last time I went home in May and to a lesser degree but, yeah, to a lesser degree but similarly in December, was one of the times where I actually felt in going home I didn't entirely revert back to a high school kind of mentality or to kind of (inaudible at 00:33:01) and I actually felt kind of very centered, maybe, is the word, in kind of myself more so than I ever felt before which was really great feeling. [00:33:19]

It's still a very (PAUSE) mixed kind of experience because I was kind of, I think, imagining it to be more fulfilling than it actually is that I still, you know, it's still fulfilling in certain parts.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Will you be traveling the rest of the time? [00:33:59]

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm staying... I'm spending time in four cities beforehand. I'm really excited to see one of my friends. You know, she... We've planned out or (inaudible at 00:34:21) she's a person that I really admire in her work and her just outlook on life and what she's hoping to do. So I'm really excited to spend some time with her. I'm having a reunion in Toronto with friends that I started this house with which is really exciting. I'm working which is less exciting. (LAUGHTER) [00:35:01]

So yeah.

THERAPIST: Working in what context and to whom?

CLIENT: I'm talking to my home crowd in Toronto. So... (SIGH) Yeah. I had a conflict with the manager and so I doubt he'll be there. It would surprise me if he were there. During the summer I usually (inaudible at 00:35:49) I feel good about getting to see my old crowd because I get to see my friends there but that has definitely tempered some of my excitement or affection for... And at the most, I'm working on Sunday. [00:36:11]

I don't know why I... (LAUGHTER) I'm nervous about my lecture because I don't know, I haven't refined it enough. I feel like it's missing something so that's another thing I need to work on this week on top of the other things that need to be worked on. (PAUSE) My sister is moving out actually which I think is really great. [00:37:01]

THERAPIST: She lives with your parents?

CLIENT: Yeah. So she's moving to the island which is awesome. I think it's a perfect plan for her. My parents are really supportive. I think it's time for her to really get out of the house. She's ready for it (PAUSE) which in some way kind of cements the end of the, that kind of form of home and childhood for both of us which is kind of interesting to think about.

THERAPIST: You're in a very sort of contemplative state in here. Are you like that outside of here too? [00:38:05]

CLIENT: Yes. I used to joke with my ex because he'd be like, "What are you thinking about?" And I'd be like, "You can't ask me that question." You know, there are like fourteen things I'm thinking about all at once and... Yeah. It didn't really occur to me that people aren't always thinking about everything until the last few years. I just kind of assumed that people processed like I did or experience the world like I do. So sometimes I try to block it out and kind of have times when I'm intentionally not trying to think. [00:39:03]

But yeah, it's definitely a central facet of my life.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I guess it makes me think about, you know, one of the things you came in here to do which was to sort of experience thinking emotionally or just be more in contact with that. It kind of seems like you are processing center is your brain more than your emotions. Well, that may not be true but certainly that's what you use more. (LAUGHTER) It doesn't mean that your processing center isn't also your emotions but it isn't used as much.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think I haven't really developed a really strong ability to process emotionally. I don't even know what that means. [00:40:01]

Even thinking about processing things emotionally is emotion.

THERAPIST: That thought is emotional?

CLIENT: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:40:15) some sense of tightness in my chest or anxiety. And I know that when I talked about, you know, the hard things in my life with, you know, one of my friends, she kind of turned to me and was like, "You always just like... You're always talking and describing and not like feeling." Which is somewhat accurate.

THERAPIST: What's the part that statement doesn't capture?

CLIENT: I think part of it is due to that kind of feeling of I've already processed something. So it's like, if I've felt the emotion once, I don't really want to go back to it. [00:41:07]

So it's like I'll just recount what happened and I will tell you what I felt and tell you what happened but I won't really feel like we're reliving it I think. But, yeah, I... I don't really know how to bridge that gap (PAUSE) connect those neurons or...

THERAPIST: I was sort of thinking bridging the gap and trying to get that metaphor over a metaphor the idea of processing emotions might pause for a minute.

(PAUSE) [00:42:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. I definitely feel at a loss for that.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Do you ever feel things intensely?

CLIENT: Yeah. It's not like completely, not like completely numb. I guess like the first question is like what is intensely feeling something? Like there are times when I get upset or frustrated. [00:43:15]

And there have been, you know, choice moments where I can remember being really distraught and really joyful. (PAUSE) I guess I feel like I just don't have the (SIGH) a strong emotional vocabulary. [00:44:01]

Like I know I was feeling upset or like frustrated on the weekend but like I didn't... Part of me just felt like it wasn't important to actually... Like I was feeling frustrated with the way... Me and my roommate were moving and I was feeling frustrated with the way, the different ways we were engaging in the process. He was much more, "Let's think about it. Let's make sure all the things are in line," and then he kind of gets focused on a specific task. And my process is, "Why don't we take all the stuff in our house and put it in the van and then put it in the place, come back, do the same, and then fix all the little details of things that need to be, you know... If we need to worry about cleaning or something else, we'll do that later." [00:45:01]

And there were some problems with box springs and fitting upstairs and so he was like, "I want to, you know, saw some things so I can get it up the stairs." And I'm like, "Okay, you do that. But I'm going to take the stuff in the van and put it in the house." So I did most of the work, I'd say. Well, maybe sixty five percent of the work. And so it was frustrating because our ways were different and it isn't to say that he wasn't helpful, you know, the twenty, thirty five percent (inaudible at 00:45:41) Yeah.

THERAPIST: Thirty five percent if you're doing sixty five.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I definitely was feeling frustrated and I know he realized the disparity and kind of said he appreciated the work I did. And I also didn't mind just doing it because I know I will get more frustrated if I try to like actually engage in kind of a... [00:46:17]

It is must easier for me to just like do the extra work and not have to kind of engage in a conversation or a conflict about the process of what's going on. (inaudible at 00:46:43) more equitable process but the amount that I actually really care about it didn't really seem to outweigh it. And I think that's the way I feel about a lot of things. Like I might get upset by it but the amount that it actually matters to me is very little. So it's like, "Okay. I'll just take it." [00:47:05]

THERAPIST: You're not as attached to those things.

CLIENT: No. There is... (PAUSE) There are things that I'm attached to but, and those things I really value and those things... When there's conflict around it, I do engage. But there are so much of life that I'm really not attached to and I don't... Yeah.

THERAPIST: We are actually going to need to stop for today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So I will see you Thursday at eleven.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And do you know your schedule for next, for the semester yet?

CLIENT: No. I don't.

THERAPIST: Okay. Well, we can touch base for that.

CLIENT: Alright.

THERAPIST: Okay. Take care. I'll see you on Thursday. Bye bye.

(PAUSE) [00:48:00]

END TRANSCRIPT