TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.

CLIENT: Hello. [sighs] Tuesdays. Today was booked from-started class at 8:30, then I have something going on until 8:00. But I had a 30-minute break in the middle, that was to go outside and just relax, and that was really nice, so, despite it being really busy, I'm feeling all right now. [00:01:00]

I'm trying to think what the last was like. Feels like I was just here.

(pause)

CLIENT: I had a conversation with my sister that was interesting. She texted me, we were chatting, then she just said out-of-blue, "I don't really know why you're doing what you're doing, what got you into it and what-not, so we should talk about that sometime." I was like, "Oh, wow." [00:02:00]

We had that conversation on Sunday, I think. Yeah, and it was nice. (inaudible at 00:02:11) that conversation with my dad, not my sister, it...they're just reaching out to figure out what the heck I'm actually doing and why, [from my family] (ph), which is just feeling good.

It's also feeling weird, but...I've never really had those conversations. Now it's odd that they're happening.

It also feels like we don't have...I don't know if it's the...I don't think we have the practice in having them. Just the conversations we usually have are very based in what we do rather than why. [00:03:03]

(pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, it feels weird. I don't think I talked to either of my parents since I came back, and so the talk with my mother-it was just so...perfunctory. We had to do it. We had to check in, but it didn't feel it didn't feel, I guess, anything about it. [00:04:00]

That's swirling around, but also been feeling moments in the last week of very...not very tangible, but seeing the reasons why I'm doing it...and being able to have that more-deep, "Oh, yeah." Not just my-feel like I empower myself on intellect very easily, but a more visceral experience. I'd be like, "Oh, yeah, here's the kind of an excitement that rises up," I'm like, "Yes, this is what it is." [00:05:00]

(inaudible at 00:05:05) that, the feeling that there's still a lot of training that I need to do for myself to be able to be competent in doing that, but I guess that doesn't feel as scary, when you're those spaces of feeling it.

I think on another level I am scared that you can be competent but also not have that-or not be able to tap into that zeal, and then that doesn't seem to compute, that doesn't seem to be a winning or not a workable combination. [00:06:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: I had felt (inaudible at 00:06:20). I began having moments where I'm interacting with my writing and just being really frustrated by it. Got an assignment back from her, one of my professors, that is basically like, "So I don't know if you're using this for practice professional writing, because if you are, there are some issues. If you're just doing this, we're okay with it. If you're just handing in the assignment, that's fine." It was basically them telling me it's there. It's one of those... [00:07:00]

You know, first I'm frustrated, because it's-I read the thing, it made complete sense to me. I didn't see any missing words or grammar problems, so it's frustrating to think, "I tried."

Then there's a deeper, "What does this mean I can actually do?" because it feels like it's a limiting thing: now I need to figure out how I can live my life so I will never have to do writing. That's a sinking...

THERAPIST: Why do you have to live your life so you never have to do writing?

CLIENT: Well, it's a feeling I've had for a really long time. I know it's not my strength, and so it would be much easier to not have to do it. [00:08:00]

I know that that's not reasonable and it's just about getting strategies and doing the types of writing that actually comes naturally to me, versus the stuff I'm forced to do, which doesn't...I feign (ph) to work through that process, of frustration and then feeling of narrowing it down to being compressed, and then, "No, it's just one assignment. It's just one thing."

THERAPIST: Do you think it's easier to communicate speaking than it is writing (crosstalk at 00:08:42)?

CLIENT: Oh, totally.

THERAPIST: What do you think putting it-because some people have the opposite problem, because they don't have the ability to work it over, right, that you have in writing. Speaking is more impromptu. What do you think it is about putting things on paper? [00:09:00]

CLIENT: I think there are a few elements to it. I know parts of it have to just do with how my brain is wired, in terms of my processing speeds. Because my verbal processing speed is so fast, to be able to put it down on paper inherently means that it's slowed down, and so I can't get the same thought. I can't get it onto the paper fast enough to capture it.

My thoughts in my head have a lot of nuance. I try to add that nuance when I'm writing, and then it just confuses it, because it's too much.

When I read, I read more blocks of words and sentences, rather than words, and so the order of things is just not-I don't absorb that a sentence needs this, this, and this, because I don't really read sentences, per se I read blocks of text. [00:10:17] I figure out the meaning by putting all these blocks of texts together.

When I'm writing, I can't-I have to figure out-I have to make sure the sentence makes sense, and so sentences that don't make sense will make sense to me, because I'm either reading words in or I'm...it just does. It captures exactly what I'm trying to say, but it's missing a subject and, "Oh." It's like teasing that out and being able to bring the specificity of the thought into writing doesn't work.

There are some things that are easier. [00:11:00] I can write speeches really well, because it's meant to be spoken, it's oral. I can bring syntax and style into a written piece that aren't grammatically correct, but because it doesn't need to be grammatically correct, it flows, it works, it's good.

I've had some success writing more spoken-word poetry. Recently, I've been writing a few narrative pieces, so I don't know. It's the specificity of the academic writing that I struggle with, or just general grammar issues. [00:12:00] It's always been like that.

THERAPIST: I know you mentioned that when you said that, I remember you saying that in a previous session.

(pause)

[00:13:00]

CLIENT: I guess it came back to the moments of, "Oh, yeah, this is it." I guess one of the things that's been on my mind is it feels like there's a threshold that escapes me, in getting to fully live in that space and that I'm kind of looking at it. Maybe touching it, but not fully being there.

It doesn't feel like a question of...skill or...having the tools or having the ability or what-not. [00:14:05] It does feel like this...a lack of being able to fully live into the convictions I have or deeply.

I don't know.

(pause)

[00:15:00]

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CLIENT: I don't know.

(pause)

[00:16:00]

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CLIENT: I think it all just feels heavy. I'm not sure what that means, but...

(pause)

[00:17:00]

THERAPIST: Is there an emotion tied to the heaviness?

(pause)

CLIENT: Exhaustion.

(pause)

[00:18:00]

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[00:19:00]

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CLIENT: I just feel like a lot of...I spend a lot of unnecessary energy spinning around in my head.

(pause)

CLIENT: I think it's also hard because it's like your...a lot of overachiever friends. [00:20:06] It's hard to know what is normal, what is the...what is my carrying capacity for being able to do things well? [laughs]

Someone asked me what my hobbies were, and I realized that was a really hard question to answer.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:20:47)

CLIENT: Because I don't think I have hobbies.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:20:56)

CLIENT: I think it kind of just struck me. I was like, "I don't really have hobbies." [00:21:02] I have...you know, I go to school. That embodies a lot of what I do. I usually [a whole] (ph) bunch of volunteer things I do, and I guess those are hobbies, per se, but...

I think I'll be like, "Oh, I like cooking and biking and reading and..." I cook because I need to eat, because that [laughs] and I, you know, will sometimes put more effort into it than other times, but that doesn't exactly seem like a hobby.

I don't go on bike rides just for fun; I bike around because that's how I get from Place A to B. It's something I do enjoy doing but mostly in the context of I get enjoyment A., because it gets me from Point A to Point B in an efficient way, and there is some enjoyment in the physicality of it and the feel of it, but I don't... (inaudible at 00:22:11), "Oh, I'm just going to go for a bike ride today." That doesn't do it for me.

Reading? I'm not a fan of literature, so most of the time I'm reading non-fiction things that are usually related to either school or something that I'm involved in.

(pause)

CLIENT: I think my hobbies are reduced to watching television. It feels like the only thing that I consistently do that isn't wrapped up in something.

THERAPIST: I don't think that's a hobby...

CLIENT: No, I don't think-

THERAPIST: ...I would say it's more a pastime. [00:23:01]

CLIENT: Yeah. It's not (inaudible at 00:23:04) thing, a connoisseur of TV.

I went contra dancing the other week for the first time, planning on continuing that. That's not a hobby but it's something I have done and plan [laughs] to continue doing.

Yeah, I don't know. It's like, do I even want a hobby? I like what I do, for the most part, but I feel like there isn't-it's all tied into this one enterprise of something, which I'm not sure if it feels balanced.

(pause)

[00:24:00]

CLIENT: Guess I write a bit. That's fun. That's not consistent. It's sporadic, it's like, "Oh, it just came to me so I'll write it."

(pause)

THERAPIST: I think there's a sort of a loose association, but I was thinking about hobbies as a form of engagement, being engaged in something and I was thinking about the first e-mail you sent [to me] (ph) about just-you didn't use the word "engage," but it's sort of just being engaged in your own emotional life and with other people, too.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm, yeah.

(pause)

[00:25:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: [sighs] I don't know. I feel like I'm more unclear of what...

(pause)

CLIENT: ...yeah, I guess more unclear. Am I really that (ph) disconnected from my feelings (inaudible at 00:26:04)? Because I have them. I feel like there's a disconnect, that's mostly because I (inaudible at 00:26:12) other people and they're like, "Oh, I feel like there should be more or different ones."

How much of that is a comparative thing, that is, versus a...inherent thing? See, that just gets me confused. [laughs]

(pause)

[00:27:00]

(pause)

[00:28:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: [sighs]

(pause)

THERAPIST: Where did your mind go?

CLIENT: I was questioning whether I distrust emotions as a useful gauge of anything. [00:29:01]

THERAPIST: How do you mean?

CLIENT: [sighs] I don't know! That was the thought.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:29:12)

(pause)

CLIENT: It doesn't make sense, and it does, at the same time. I know that it's not always the case, but I know that it's sometimes the case.

THERAPIST: Well, probably by definition, your emotions are an inaccurate gauge of your emotional state.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Perhaps your emotional state is an inaccurate gauge of anything, I don't know. I don't believe that, but...

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:30:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: I guess it feels-sometimes it's really...like the threshold to feel something is really high, but when it happens, it's really intense.

(pause)

[00:31:00]

(pause)

THERAPIST: What does the intensity feel like?

CLIENT: [sighs] Incredibly scary and...like lack of control.

(pause)

CLIENT: I guess like...this isn't the right word, but...primal or deep-seated. [00:32:09]

(pause)

CLIENT: I feel really intense, negative emotions. That's what it feels like.

(pause)

CLIENT: [sighs]

[00:33:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: [sighs] (inaudible at 00:33:28) think of it a few times in the last year and, I don't know, probably two years. Just how...it almost feels like an unraveling to a point of just...not being able to put all the parts back into the box. [00:34:01] Almost like-it doesn't...doesn't feel like it's me. It feels like...it does and it doesn't. It feels like it's...it's like control has been lost, that's it's almost like a participant watching from inside, it happening.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:34:38)

CLIENT: Not being able to...exercise any reason. [00:35:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: That happens so seldom.

THERAPIST: Well, I would imagine that part of the reason it happens so seldom is it doesn't sound very pleasant. It sounds like an experience you might want to stay away from.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm, yeah.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you're describing kind of two modes, either being very distant or being almost too close.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:36:00]

THERAPIST: It's the point that it almost sort of feels like it's fragmented, like you feel fragmented, like there are pieces of yourself don't hang together, somehow.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: It feels very disruptive.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I guess maybe then one of the goals is to create a space in between those spaces, in between those places.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. I guess I just have no idea how that works.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:36:33)

CLIENT: I do feel like there are fluctuations in my emotions, I feel that generally. Something does feel disconnected, but (inaudible at 00:36:48), I don't know how you practice or get in touch with that, because I feel like I can...I can talk as much as I want or desire to, and...I don't know. [00:37:07] It doesn't necessarily seem to lead there.

(pause)

CLIENT: I don't know. I think you're right, I have a feeling problem. (inaudible at 00:37:33) feeling problem is the not having access to it, then can't exactly feel your way into it, either. Maybe those statements aren't correct.

(pause)

[00:38:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: Yeah.

And now I feel exhausted.

THERAPIST: What do you think is exhausting you?

(pause)

[00:39:00]

CLIENT: I don't know if it's catching up with me, from just today being so hectic. Part of it's...a kind of frustration or inherent kind of fatigue that accompanies walking in this area, and asking these questions that I've asked before. I'm just not feeling...any closer to anything.

(pause)

[00:40:00]

(pause)

CLIENT: [sighs] I just want to curl up and go to sleep. [sighs]

(pause)

[00:41:00]

THERAPIST: Would that be a way to kind of withdraw?

CLIENT: [sighs] Yeah. It feels safe.

(pause)

CLIENT: You just kind of push it aside and deal with it when you wake up, hoping it'll change. I'm just not having the energy to do it now. [00:42:00]

(pause)

THERAPIST: I had sort of a funny thought well, funny-interesting, not ha-ha-funny. I was thinking about maybe it takes a lot of energy to kind of support a dam.

CLIENT: Hmm. [sighs] Yeah.

(pause)

CLIENT: I feel like that's...I feel like it does, but I feel like it's unconscious energy. [00:43:01] Because I don't feel my energy being expended to stop negative emotions. I feel more like my energy being expended just spinning around in my head or relating to the world or all these things, which are almost...I'm not sure if they're there maybe in part because the dam is there, as a response to it. It's like an imprint.

But I guess I-maybe that's a...an interesting kind of...way to conceptualize a...because it feels like I have to extend the metaphor, like what the dam is holding is really an unknown for me, it feels like. [00:44:21]

There are moments that I've really experienced that have been very...usually big, and then it's just too much. It feels very unknowing to know what that really is.

The space that carves out the negative space around it is the conscious space that I live.

I know what it's like to live with the dam, per se, even if I don't know what's inside it. [00:45:02]

THERAPIST: Darren (ph), we're going to need to stop for today. It's an interesting metaphor or imagery. [I'll see you next week] (ph). Bye.

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