TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi! Come on in! Just grab some water.

CLIENT: Sure. (pause) Hi!

THERAPIST: Hi! How are you doing?

CLIENT: Okay. I haven't been feeling that great yesterday or today, so I'm feeling frustrated that that's happening again. [00:01:06]

THERAPIST: Not great in what way?

CLIENT: My stomach. I had like, a flare-up of whatever; it was happening yesterday. And it was probably from something I ate, because last time I had symptoms, I had this like, particular kind of yogurt as well. But I think like, when I get nervous about it... It's weird, having actual stomach issues, because when I feel stressed and anxious, then I usually get like a little like, anxiety stomachache, you know? And so it's odd having... because... an actual stomach issue, because then, when I worry about it, it makes it worse, so... Then it's like, hard not to, it's hard to stop that from happening. And then I don't know what's like, real or... I mean, it's all real, because I feel it, but I don't know what it's caused from, me being stressed out about what's going on with my stomach and what's being caused by my actual stomach issue. [00:02:03]

THERAPIST: And what do you start to worry about?

CLIENT: Whether it's healing, and what's going on, and why I'm having this symptom or that symptom, is it a side effect of the medication, this isn't... You know, like this isn't supposed to be what... And it also feels like, and I don't know... I just start like, thinking about all the other things that could be going on. (therapist responds)

(pause) And if I was feeling better for so long and now I'm feeling sick again; does that mean that I'm not getting, I'm not getting better, you know? And I know it takes time; there is a reason that, you know, they told me it will take three months to kill; it's not going to happen like that, but you know, I've told you, I'm very impatient (chuckles), and so... I would like to be better now.

THERAPIST: Well, I guess part of patience is sort of bearing uncertainty. (client affirms) Do you think that's what's hard? [00:03:07]

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm nervous that on December 3rd, when I go in for the endoscopy, they're going to tell me that it's not healed, you know. (pause) Because it's shitty, right now, like not eating anything I want to be eating, and I don't have, I haven't been working out a lot. I just went for a pretty pitiful (chuckles) jog after work. I don't have the energy. So it's just frustrating, and so yeah, I'm nervous that like, for some reason, it's going to take longer to heal or... Or something else is going on, that is preventing it from healing, or something like that.

THERAPIST: And do you get particular ideas of what's preventing it or just this fear like something is preventing it?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (pause) So I'm just trying to be patient. (chuckles) [00:04:16]

THERAPIST: And what does "trying to be patient" feel like?

CLIENT: (pause) I feel like I'm not being patient, you know, like... it feels like... I don't know. I keep like, reminding... I just feel like I'm constantly reminding myself like, "You're fine!" You know? So... (pause) I think it's frustrating, because usually what makes me feel better is when I like, get a good workout in, you know. And since I'm not doing that, I don't feel like I have... like any way to release any of the stress that I'm feeling. So I feel like I'm just like, I'm just like sitting with it. It's not going anywhere. [00:05:34]

THERAPIST: So it feels kind of pent up?

CLIENT: (affirms) Yeah. (pause) And like the other, two days ago, I finally like, I went for a run for the first time since I got sick. And it was great, and it felt great, and I felt great the rest of the night, you know. Then the next day, I got sick again. So it was just like... I finally was like celebrating that I was really, like felt like I was on the mend and doing well, and was feeling good, you know. And then yesterday, I got sick again, so it was just like... I don't know. It all got taken away. (chuckles) So... [00:06:27]

And then, I push myself. Like, today, I'm like, "Okay, you're going to feel better today!" And I really, really want to, you know. And I'm like, "You're going to go for a run today." And I don't know if I would have felt better if like, or worse, if I didn't try to go for a run. But like I, it made me feel like crap, because I was really, it was like the slowest mile times I've had in a long time, and I like got nauseous as I was jogging. I wasn't even running, you know? It was like a trot for me, so it was just like frustrating. So I don't know if I would have felt worse about myself if I hadn't tried to go for a run, or if I feel worse now that I tried it and kind of failed. So, I don't know.

And it just makes me want to like, go home and do nothing. And I'm supposed, you know, I'm having some friends over for dinner tonight. I like seriously considered calling them and being like, "I'm not feeling well; don't come over tonight." Because it's just, I now feel like crap about myself, because I'm not getting better. And I'm like, I am just frustrated with my body. [00:07:26]

THERAPIST: Right, there is one thing, feeling crap; then, there is another thing, feeling crap about yourself!

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, I don't know, I don't know if it's like a combination of both, or one or the other. It's not like one or the other, I don't think. But I'm just like... You know, I don't feel, I'm, I guess not about myself, but, well, a little bit. I'm frustrated with my body. I don't understand why this is like happening, and it's prolonged, and like I just want to get over it.

THERAPIST: Like, it's something that you can't control, but you desperately want to? (client affirms)

[pause 00:08:00 to 00:08:48]

Is it a wish for control that you don't feel you can just let go of, even a little bit?

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, because it's like, these are things that I know, like that usually make me feel better. So I want to be able to have that feeling again. I want to feel like, energized and like, I want to socialize with my friends, and you know like, I'm excited about the day or something. And so, yeah, it's hard for me to like, let go of it and be like, "Oh, well, like you're not going to... Like you're going to feel sick and you're not going to exercise for a while." It's like... I feel like I shouldn't just let that happen.

THERAPIST: (chuckles) What's the alternative?

CLIENT: I don't know; I guess being cranky about it! (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I see. So you can either accept that or feel badly and be cranky. [00:09:40]

CLIENT: I guess. I don't know. I feel like I want to keep trying to, and like figure out like what, you know, like... I want to figure out like why, what's making me not feel well today, you know? Like, I barely ate anything today, so it can't be food, you know?

THERAPIST: It could be not eating anything today (chuckles), too!

CLIENT: That's true. But what I did eat was like, full of protein and you know, I had like peanut butter and then like, brown rice and avocado. Like, I am eating smartly, because I'm not able to eat a lot, so... But I guess it's still not that much food, so it would make sense that I don't feel like super energized. But... I don't know.

But I didn't feel hunger all day, so it's not like I could have eaten more to, and I don't, you know, I don't know. I don't know, but that's what I, just like sitting here and just want to like dissect every reason why I would not be feeling, like I why I would feel nauseous trying to run today, but not two days ago. You know, why I didn't have an appetite today, but I did yesterday or, you know what I mean? Like, I just... like I always want to know like, any time something happens, any time I get a little bit sick or, I always want to know why. Like, I want to know the reason for like, why I feel each little thing that I feel. [00:10:53]

THERAPIST: It sounds like a really hard task.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because you can't like, you know, you get a headache, you don't know why you have a headache. (therapist affirms) But I sit there and I want, like I want to know exactly what's going on, like why I'm having a headache.

THERAPIST: And if you can figure that out, what, how does it help?

CLIENT: (pause) It like calms me down if I know like, if there is something... Like I remember last week, I was having really bad cramps and I couldn't take anything for it. But I didn't feel that stressed about it, because it was like a pain I was having, but I knew where it was coming from. It was like a normal reaction, it's a normal reaction for females to have that, like once a month, you know? So like it, kind of, it was like not worrisome to me, because I knew where it was coming from, and I knew that it was nothing to be worried about, that it was normal. [00:11:46]

(therapist affirms) So like, if I know that... like I have a stuffy nose, just because I have this little cold or because I have allergies. You know, if I can like pinpoint what's causing what, and it's like, something that's pretty normal, typical and like nothing to be worried about, then it calms me down. If I can't figure it out, then it stresses me out, because then I think it's something like, really bad.

THERAPIST: Sounds (inaudible) something, you catastrophize. (client affirms) Why would something really bad be wrong?

CLIENT: I don't know. It doesn't make much sense, because I'm, aside from having this like whatever ulcer I have, like I'm a healthy 28-year old, you know? Like... when other healthy 28-year olds get a headache or a stomach ache, you know, they're like, "Oh..." You know, like it's not, it's not like I'm in my 50s or 60s and like you're really, you know, could be something. Like, when you do have to worry about other things going on. But I don't know. [00:12:49]

(pause) It's frustrating, because I feel like my life is really good right now. Like, I should be really happy with everything, you know? Like, I have a really wonderful family, I have a wonderful supportive girlfriend (who I love very much), and I'm doing very well in school, and I'm doing very well at work. I'm like, did very well since college, you know what I mean, I'm like, I have a lot to be really grateful for, and I am really grateful for it, but I wish I could just like relax and enjoy it, because I'm young, and I live in a great place, and I have great friends and great family. Like it's just, it's really annoying that I'm so preoccupied with all these other little things, and I'm not able to just like have fun, you know? And enjoy myself. [00:13:53]

Like, I guess part of it is like, I feel like because everything is so great, like, it's never felt great for me. Like, well you know, there was always something that was, that I felt was like wrong with me, whether I was overweight, or else with my sexuality, I'm going to get good grades, you know until I was a sophomore in college. Now finally like, everything is great! I should just be able to enjoy it, but I feel like something must be like around, something horrible must be right around the corner, because I'm not used to it. (pause) I'm not, I feel like, which, and it sounds ridiculous, you know, my last therapist said I had Kena Hora Syndrome, (chuckles) because I was like waiting for something bad to happen!

THERAPIST: What is it?

CLIENT: Kena Hora syndrome? [00:14:39]

THERAPIST: I didn't even know...

CLIENT: That's what she called it. I don't know. I think, my mom like it's, like old Jewish women say this word, "kena hora," it's like, don't, you know, like "knock on wood" kind of thing.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think it's like a Yiddish term, I don't know.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I've heard it growing up, so I know the context in which it belongs, but I don't know like what exactly it means? But that's, I feel like I'm like, waiting for something bad to happen, because it's like, too good to be true, basically. Like, I never imagined that I would be with... Amelia is literally the girl of my dreams. You know, and I like, never imagined that I would ever, because I spent so many years like, falling for these straight women who, no matter what I did or how I changed my body, would ever fall for me back, because, you know, it wasn't, and it wasn't personal. It was just... you know. And now I feel like something is going to, and I think that's why like, I'm so worried all the time, that something bad is going to happen to Amelia, because... like, it's just, it's like, too good to be true. So, it's going to be taken away from me. [00:15:37]

THERAPIST: That what you have is so tenuous and fragile. (client affirms) Almost like it's an illusion. I mean, it's not quite an illusion, but it's not quite real either. (client affirms) Too good to be true is something that isn't real.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because I just never, I always thought, I like had totally accepted the fact that I would never, like have what I have right now. (pause) So I feel like the longer it goes on, the more convinced I am that like, "Okay, now it's, we're really close to like when something bad is going to happen."

THERAPIST: (pause) So it's not really yours; it's kind of just this stage (inaudible)? [00:16:45]

CLIENT: (affirms) (pause) Yeah. I know. I just like, for some reason, I don't, and I don't know why. Like, I don't feel like I consciously beat myself up over stuff, but like, I, for some reason, I don't feel like I deserve like, any of what I have. And, it's hard to explain, because I don't feel like, I can't sit here and be like, "Well like, this is what's wrong with me, this is why I don't deserve this." But I just, it's just that like general feeling that, like I haven't, like I don't know.

[pause 00:17:18 to 00:18:05]

THERAPIST: So it seems like, on the one hand, you want to control like, something from going really wrong. But on the other hand, you feel like it's an inevitability.

CLIENT: (affirms) So, I feel like I'm trying my best to like, stop it from happening, but like... It's like when I'm not around... Like with Amelia, for example, like when I'm not around, I'm like, "Well, if I'm not there, like I can't..." And she like kind of laughs about this, because like if something, if like someone were to come like, try something with her on the street, like I, you know, she's twice my size and twice as strong as I am. Like, I wouldn't be, I'm not going to, me, like little old me being there is not going to stop anything, you know? I feel like in my head, I'm like, "As long as like, we're together like, nothing's going to happen."

THERAPIST: (pause) Well, if you don't deserve what you have, what do you deserve? [00:19:06]

CLIENT: I don't know. And that like, scares me to think about. I don't know. I was just so used to like always being upset, you know? Like, I was always either, I was just, used to always like... wanting things I didn't have, specifically with like, relationships, I think. Not... because I grew up very privileged; it wasn't about like, when I wanted clothes or money or material things, that I didn't have.

But like I always like, when I was overweight, I always wanted that like athletic, skinny body that I was never going to have. And then I always wanted like, the pretty girl that I was never going to have. You know, so, I mean, it is kind of materialistic, like superficial stuff. But... And I was just so used to like that, I guess it like defined me for a really long time, for myself. Like I never really talked to people about it, but, I was probably like pretty depressed for a little while. (therapist responds) Not in the sense of like, I didn't function or get out of bed, but I was just like sad. Like, I just didn't, I like wanted, I just wanted all these feelings just to be over, you know. Because I like, always felt like I wasn't like, getting the attention that I wanted from the people I wanted it from. (therapist responds) (pause) And I just got used to it.

[pause 00:20:58 to 00:21:08]

THERAPIST: And so that's what you deserve?

CLIENT: I don't think I deserve that, necessarily, you know? Because I was pretty shitty also. I was scared of it, I'm scared that that's what, like you know, that's what I'm scared of. I don't want to go back to that. I'm very scared of putting on weight, I'm very scared of losing Amelia, you know like, those things make me, then it's like terrifying to think about.

[pause 00:21:33 to 00:22:58]

THERAPIST: What are you thinking about?

CLIENT: If I have anything else to say (chuckles) about this subject.

THERAPIST: The thought I had, I'm not sure what this looks like exactly, but the immediate thought I had after you said that is, maybe you have to face the terror and maybe it will make it less terrifying.

CLIENT: (affirms) But what would that mean, like... for like, you know what I mean, like... how would I face the terror without actually like... losing Amelia or getting fat again? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Well, facing the terror is about facing the feeling. (client affirms) It's not like, it's not actualizing what you're terrified about. (client affirms) And it's definitely this terror that things will just fall apart, completely fall apart. (client affirms)

[pause 00:23:45 to 00:24:56]

What are you thinking?

CLIENT: Still just whether I have anything else to say about it, but... No, that's it, yeah.

THERAPIST: Where would you be if things fell apart?

CLIENT: I mean, I don't know. I'm like, need to find a new apartment, because I wouldn't be able to stay in like, the apartment that we made together. I feel like I would have to like, leave Boston, you know? Like, I like, we moved here together, Amelia and I. And like everything like, reminds me of her. I feel like I wouldn't, I don't' know what I would do. I'd probably re-apply to the Red Cross (chuckles); just leave. Do something like that. (therapist responds)

Although, since we met in the Red Cross, that probably wouldn't (chuckles) be, even if I went to a different country. I don't know. I don't know what I would do. I'm sure my (inaudible) and I would like go to New York and cry for like a very long time. I think about that sometimes like, to make myself like... I don't know like, you know, like when I'm feeling really worried about that like, okay, well like, if that did happen, like what, you know, what would I do? And I always think, "Well, my mom would come get me. You know, my mom and my dad, they would come up and get me." (therapist responds) [00:26:23]

But it doesn't make me feel better, because that's like... I don't know. I don't like feeling like I wouldn't be able to like, function, you know, without Amelia. (therapist affirms) Makes me feel really dependent. (pause) And it makes me feel like our relationship is not healthy. (pause) And I probably would function just fine, you know what I mean? Like, I would like, life would go on, but like when I think about it, it like doesn't seem like that. Like, I can't imagine...

[pause 00:27:30 to 00:27:49]

It's not even like I'm afraid of like, her breaking up with me. It's like, the reason I get so upset about it is because my fear is like, her like dying or something, you know? It's like, ridiculous and like so extreme, but it's like really difficult for me to think about, because that would be, you know like... It wouldn't be like, if she just broke up with me, then I feel like it would be different, because she would still be like... existing, you know? And I'd probably be mad at her, you know? And there would be like (chuckles), something but it's like... Yeah, it's like this, I have this fear of her like getting, like, you know, dying. It's like... So it's like really awful. (therapist affirms) I've never told her that, because I feel bad. You know, I don't want her to think, but like, that's what I think about all the time.

THERAPIST: Well, on the one hand, you feel fragile and on the other hand, you feel she's fragile. [00:28:44]

CLIENT: (pause) Even though she's not. She's like, the opposite, you know? She's like the strongest, one of the strongest women I've ever met. And I like know she can, you know, like we joke. I have this like, I hate flying, because I feel really like not... Like if I could have it my way, I would drive everywhere. And I don't let anybody else drive my car. Like, I have this thing, I like very much like to be in control. And so I can't stand...

THERAPIST: I would have guessed that... [00:29:20]

CLIENT: ...flying, yeah. I mean, even taking a train. Like, it's better on the train than it is on a plane, but like I really get all like... Somehow on public transportation, I'm fine. Like, when I'm just going to work and stuff, but like flying is just the... and I didn't used to have that. I used to love flying, you know? And I fly a lot, because I travel a lot. And I don't remember when it started getting bad; must have been sometime in college but...

Anyway, Amelia has to go to Philadelphia in November for like four days for a conference. Usually, what we would do is, I would like somehow find a way to go with her, so that we wouldn't have to spend the week apart, with me like being dysfunctional and anxious the whole time, and her not being able to enjoy herself, because I'm texting her constantly. But I have, I'm not just in school. Like I have jobs and I can't just leave on a Wednesday and come back on Sunday. And I don't have 500 extra dollars for a flight to Philadelphia. So I'm not going. [00:30:23]

And... all right, so, you know, I get scared even when like, she's on a plane, you know? Or and when my family members are travelling to like, it's not a city, or as it is when it's Amelia, but like I'm like, you know, don't want like, I wish she could just, I could just drive her to Philadelphia, you know, and like drop her off and come back. Like, I get really nervous, even when like, she's flying without me. And I asked her once... We were flying out to Oregon, and I was like, "Well, don't you get... like scared that the plane is going to crash, you know?" She was like, "Well, no. I just always assumed that like, if something like that happens, like I'm going to be the one that (chuckles) survives!"

And I'm like, "How does she...?" You know like, I want to be able to think like that, you know? And she truly believes that. Like, she believes in any major disaster, like she's going to walk, and like she's going to be fine. (pause) It makes me feel really safe around her! (therapist affirms) But... (pause) Now I forgot why I was saying that... Oh, well yeah. But she's not fragile. But I still, yeah, like I get worried that something like, out of our control is going to happen, you know? [00:31:44]

THERAPIST: The "Amelia in the world" is not fragile; the "Amelia inside you" can be fragile. (client affirms)

[pause 00:31:52 to 00:33:14]

You look like you are thinking about something.

CLIENT: Just about the fact that like, now I'm just sitting here getting anxious about when we have to fly out to Oregon in December (therapist affirms), and about the fact that like, I'm already like worried that I'm going to be really anxious the whole time she's in Philadelphia. So I was thinking about what I'm going to do while (chuckles) she's in Philadelphia.

THERAPIST: What did you come up with?

CLIENT: Nothing yet. But we have, she flies out on a Thursday morning, at 5:30 in the morning. So I'll have to like, get up and take her to the airport, but we have a fund raiser that night, so that's just going to be, I feel like it's going to be a ridiculous day, because I'm going to be sleep deprived, which always makes me more anxious.

[pause 00:33:57 to 00:34:11]

I feel like I need to be able to get over it, because she needs to be able to go to a conference in her, for her field, you know? And do other stuff like, she needs to be able to go on trips with her college friends. I need to be able to go on trips with my good friends, you know, and like we need to be able to... And she's fine. Like she doesn't have, you know, she'll miss me, but she's going to have a great time. She's staying with one of our good friends, you know. But I'm already like... worrying about everything, because he lives outside the city. So I'm like, "Well, how, you know, you're going to be commuting by yourself, like you've never been to Philadelphia." And this is someone, she's travelled the entire world by herself, when she was like 19. You know? And then she went to Egypt, not, you know, and she's... And it's like I get worried that she's not going to be able to take the bus from a suburb in Philadelphia to the hotel where the conference is. (pause) I try to like think about those things when I get worried, because that calms me down. [00:35:12]

THERAPIST: It does? I wonder if she ever, in these moments, if she ends up representing a part of yourself, of you, that doesn't feel like you're going to be okay.

CLIENT: I don't know. (pause) I mean, at the end of the day, it is like, you know, in a selfish way, like it is about me, because if something were to happen to her, then I don't think that I would be okay.

[pause 00:35:37 to 00:36:24]

THERAPIST: It seems like free-floating anxiety of things not being okay can get grafted onto physical symptoms, especially when you're not feeling well. (client affirms) And then that sort of becomes the focus.

CLIENT: Yeah, and usually like, I'm able to like, I have, I like constantly have a stomach ache because... And I know it's from my anxiety, and I know it's from stress, because there is like a clear correlation or relationship between the two like... all the time, you know? Like, when I'm not anxious and when I'm feeling relaxed, I don't have stomach issues. And now, because I do have this ulcer (that's not caused by, it might be caused a little bit by my stress, but like most likely caused by that medication I was taking, it's, I don't know), it's like I can usually just brush, like I just live with my stomach aches. They don't really affect my daily life too much, you know? I've like learned how to just deal with it, because it's like, for me, I know that it's like psychosomatic. I don't really feel like something's really wrong with me. But now that there is something that needs to heal and needs time, I feel like I can't just like, usually what I would brush off as like a nervous, anxious stomach ache, I can't like just brush it off, you know? Because then I'm wondering like, "Well, is this related to the ulcer, is this related to the medication I'm on like..." You know. So... I feel like it's all just like a perfect storm right now. (chuckles) And it's making me feel just like... really on edge all the time.

[pause 00:37:59 to 00:39:09]

THERAPIST: Do you feel yourself worrying more right now?

CLIENT: Yeah, I was just thinking that it's making me like anxious, thinking about it. And talking about it.

THERAPIST: What, anxious about what in particular?

CLIENT: Um, no I'm just like now thinking about like, my stomach and how I just want, like I just want these next couple of months just to be over, so I can like, I just want to like fast-forward to when... this is like... healed.

THERAPIST: (pause) You don't want to be present for the healing process?

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I feel like because when I, you know, in college when I first started exercising a lot and when I did like, lose all that weight initially, it coincided with the time when I came out and was becoming more comfortable with myself and getting good grades. I feel like I associate like, a lot of my happiness to my physical wellbeing. I just think, because like that just all happened at the same time. [00:40:40]

And like when I'm feeling healthy, I feel mentally healthy; when I'm mentally healthy, I'm feeling healthy also, you know. So it's just like... this is like the worst, you know, that I'm like stuck in this like semi-unhealthy state. It's not like totally unhealthy, you know. But I'm not exercising, so I don't feel physically like at my peak. (pause) So I think it's just extra hard for me, because I do put a lot of emphasis on like, my, like my body physically. That does determine a lot of like how happy I feel.

THERAPIST: Well, it seems like that's in part, because you feel you can control your body and then you can control how you feel, and that feels good. But when you're confronted with situations where you can't control your body, that throws everything out of whack. [00:41:48]

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I mean yeah. I have huge control issues. Anytime I feel like I'm not in control makes me really anxious. Even so, Amelia's birthday is next Saturday. I am trying to put together like, a surprise party at the apartment. But even in deciding like whether to have people at the apartment or for us to go someplace else makes me like... You know like, right, if I have people over to the apartment like, I'm not going to be able to just decide when, you know, it's totally out of my hands. Like, the apartment might get messy, people might stay really late, I'm not going to be able to...

And the same thing with tonight, having my friends over. You know, deciding whether we should go out to dinner, whether they should come over is like... handing over control of like what time I get to go to sleep tonight, and what time everybody is out. Like if we go out to a restaurant, then I, you know, we'll have dinner and we'll be done and then I'll go home to my apartment. But if we have dinner at the apartment, then everyone's going to linger maybe, and it's like, "Why can't I just enjoy spending time with my friends?" I haven't seen them in a while, because I'm not on campus this semester, you know? And why can't I just enjoy Amelia's birthday party? If people want to hang out, and get really drunk in the apartment, whatever! It's her birthday, you know? [00:43:04]

And it's like, anytime that there is like... it just gives me a stomachache, every time I'm not in control. And it's like Amelia and I have this conversation every time we're like, going to go out with friends, you know? About like, like I need to make a plan like, is it, I need to go knowing if it's going to be a late night, are we drinking a lot, what's, you know, what's happening. And it's like, not just like, "You know, let's just see what happens" kind of thing. (pause) So it definitely is a lot about control.

(pause) And maybe that's what scares the shit out of me about losing Amelia, because I feel like... in our like, relationship, I don't have all the control in our relationship. We have, you know, what I think is (aside from my whatever my own emotional issues are), I think we have a very healthy relationship. We communicate well and I don't, you know, when I was in college and after college too, until I met Amelia, I never really, I didn't treat women very well. And I kind of went through them pretty quickly and especially in college, I had this idea that as, you know, I was being nice because I was being honest about the fact that I was not committing to any one person. I was sleeping with multiple people and because I was being honest with them and they still wanted to sleep with me, that wasn't my fault, you know? [00:44:32]

And as long as I could con , like, if I knew that they had more feelings for me than I had for them, then everything was fine. I could kind of manipulate and control the situation. And maybe I feel like I'm like waiting for something bad to happen, because I feel like I deserve some bad karma for the way that I treated those girls. I don't know. But with Amelia, is the first. So it's either been like I have all the control in the relationship or I'm just pining after these people that are never going to give me a shot, because they're straight. And then finally, I'm in this situation that's very mutual and loving and... which is great. But then at the same time, I don't really have, you know, I don't get to call the shots, because Amelia doesn't take my shit so... which is good, you know? And so maybe I'm like, that's also scary for me. [00:45:26]

THERAPIST: Hmm. It's interesting.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: It seems like a sort of interesting line of thought to pursue. You know, Kelsey (sp), we're going to need to stop for today, okay? I will see you next week?

CLIENT: Yeah, see you next week!

THERAPIST: Great! (pause) Take care!

CLIENT: You, too. Have a good weekend!

THERAPIST: Thank you!

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