TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.

CLIENT: Hi, how are you?

THERAPIST: Good thank you. How are you doing?

CLIENT: Good, doing well this week. It's been busy at work, I mean I guess it's always busy but this week has felt especially busy. (pause) I know I never have much to say in the beginning. [00:01:16.12]

THERAPIST: And I feel like then things start coming to you as...

CLIENT: Yeah, as we talk I think, yeah. But I don't feel like I come in with oh, I need this is what I need to I don't know if people usually do, but I don't ever feel like I come in with sometimes during the week I'm like okay, maybe this would be something good to talk about with Dr. Feldman, but then I can never remember what it was.

THERAPIST: It's a very different pace to be with your thoughts, express them, especially if you're coming from work.

CLIENT: Yeah, no I know. I'm still trying to like transition. [00:02:02.12] It's a very quick walk here. So it's not (pause) I don't...

THERAPIST: Nothing on your mind or nothing on your mind that feels important to talk about? [00:03:04.27]

CLIENT: I guess the latter.

THERAPIST: Well maybe you can start by just talking about what's on your mind and we can sort of see what's important in it.

CLIENT: Yeah. I've been thinking a lot this week just about work and school and because now, I mean we're almost in November and I'm supposed to be finishing up my semester of working in the field and then transitioning back to going back to classes next semester. And I've supposed to have been really focusing on my thesis this semester, which I haven't been doing, and so I've been a little bit like stressed without urgency about it because it's not due until April, but there like we've had informal deadlines to meet this semester, which doesn't really make sense in my mind because we're supposed to be for example, for my specific degree track, I'm supposed to be basing my thesis on not only my partly on my experiences working this semester but also on my advance study next semester. [00:04:22.14] And so I find that the whole schedule that they've given us doesn't really fit with the way that I would organize writing this type of research paper because I haven't even started my classes. I don't even know what classes I'm taking next semester or how I'm going to be able to relate them to what I'm going to be taking out of them to put in my paper. So I can do as much background reading as I can for this general topic that I think I'm going to be writing about, but I find it difficult to really get going because I'm not really sure what the paper is going to be on. But it still kind of stresses me out a little bit because I'd like to just be, I don't know, done with it. [00:05:04.21] And yeah, so I've just been thinking a lot about like where I'm at with that and whether or not I really need to get it in gear and try to get something out, or if it's fine just waiting. And then also making decisions about whether or not I'm going to keep working at either one of or both of and how I'm going to what I'm going to do about my jobs right now, and whether or not I'm going to try to keep one of them and do classes or what I'm going to do. So that's been what's on my mind this week.

THERAPIST: Less anxiety?

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, I think so. [00:06:05.21] I mean because I've been occupied with this. I was worried for a couple of days, and I'm like trying to not think too much about it, like Amelia had a doctor's appointment because she has this weird thing going on that she got looked at, and it's probably nothing but they're running a couple of tests today. So I'm like thinking about that a little bit. And I was a little anxious about that. But she keeps telling me it's fine. So I forget about it and then think about it again and forget about it. It's still the busier I am with work or school or something else then the less I worry about those other things.

THERAPIST: When you're distracted?

CLIENT: Mm-hm. Like today was a good day because I have like more I have a ton of things that I need to get done at work. And so I was just it wasn't one of those days where I had down time at work. [00:07:03.26] So like I touched based with Amelia maybe once or twice quickly but it wasn't something that I was like waiting around for or thinking a lot about. (pause) Like I feel like stress from work and from school doesn't make me anxious in the same way that the other things I worry about do. Kind of I like it a little bit. Because it distracts me and then I it focuses me. Like I'm very good at meeting deadlines ahead of time and I work very efficiently, but so like that feeling stress and pressure from work or classes or something like that kind of like makes me feel like I'm doing stuff.

THERAPIST: It structures you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: The other thing's unravel you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: [inaudible]

CLIENT: So I guess it's a good thing when I'm worrying about those or stressed about those things. [00:08:14.11]

THERAPIST: It's like stress lite. You were talking at the end of last week's session about sort of thinking about the ways in which you might not be as sort of expressive to Amelia about some of the things you want for fear of seeming too needy. It seemed like you really that really hit a chord with you as you were talking about it. I don't know if you've thought further about it since then.

CLIENT: Yeah, I did. I tried to talk to her a little bit about it over the weekend but I feel like I didn't, like I don't know. I've I don't think we like had a full [ph] conversation because now I can't remember what we said. So it must've not been like a full [ph] conversation. I don't remember why. (pause) I don't remember [inaudible] what happened. [00:09:11.09] But yeah, it's definitely I mean it's hard for me to separate things that like are very important that I need to talk to her about from things that maybe aren't so important and come off as nagging. Like cleaning the house and stuff like that. And so I think I'm like they're becoming like melded together, I guess, in my mind. Because I know if there's a cup out, like I can't stand it when she leaves she drinks we're both very good at being hydrated and we drink a lot of water constantly. I carry around a water bottle; she doesn't. She has 18 different cups at any given time. And our apartment is not very big. And so we just have cups everywhere, and I feel like I just walk around picking up cups all day. And most of them are 1/2 or 3/4 the way full. And if I ever say anything she's like well I was still drinking it and you dumped it out. But so that is like something that it's one of my things that just really drives me crazy. [00:10:06.08] And like this morning she has to leave really early to get to school by 7:40. And she's running around like I mean it's hard to get out that early, and we were both up late last night watching the game, and she was like already late, so I know I can just pick up the cup and dump it out, even though it makes me annoyed. Like I'd rather feel a little bit annoyed and dump out the cup than like create a fight because I decided that it was absolutely necessary for me to say something about the cup in that moment. And so I think that sometimes if I'm feeling something a little bit bigger I just have the same reaction maybe and I like don't because we've talked before in our many conversations about who does all the cleaning about how she feels like I nag her a lot about it. So I try not to because I know that it bothers her but then I think that also makes me not bring up other things too maybe. [00:11:04.27]

THERAPIST: Like you don't know what to keep to yourself and what not to.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so I think I tried to talk to her about this but then I couldn't come up with an example and that's why we stopped talking. Because there wasn't anything big right now that I'm like oh, this is really weighing on me or I'm not feeling fulfilled or something like that. So there I didn't really have anything to back it up with. I think that's why we stopped talking. Because it was hard for me to explain without an example. Because I can't think of one right now. Except that maybe sometimes it's like you don't I mean those little things, though, they all add up for me because it contributes to that feeling that I have of just being like I forget what the phrase was that you used, but like a very unhappy housewife. It all contributes to that feeling that I have, that I'm like at home waiting around every time I pick up a cup. It's like oh, a reminder that I'm the housewife and I'm the one with all the free time to pick up cups because she doesn't have because that's and that's her reasoning for not she worries about it later. [00:12:06.27] The trash doesn't need to go out right this instant because she's going to be late for work. And so which is understandable. The cup and the trash will still be there when we both get home. But I'm the one that gets home first so I would still be doing it anyway. That's what I think. So then it gets becomes hard for me to have a conversation with her about it that doesn't come off like I'm nagging her, even though I'm trying to convey this bigger thing that it makes me feel.

T Like the forest is lost for the trees.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Because I'm the one that can't relax unless we have a clean house, but since that's not a priority, like her priorities are her schoolwork and which is important, but so she's got to get that done. [00:13:08.09] She has so much of it right now that these other little things don't come to the top of her list. Which is understandable, but then they also make me feel more and more like I'm just there waiting for her to be done all the time. So I need to remember that next time she tells me I'm nagging her. (pause) And if like part of and when I think about next semester and going back to class, it'd be great if I just I don't need to work. I have student loans that cover more than enough of my living expenses, and so it's not like a necessary thing that I and I don't have really I mean I'm lucky that I don't have my parents are still supporting me somewhat until I finish all my schooling. [00:14:16.03] So I don't need to worry about my phone bill every month. I pay all of our bills here with my student loans but I don't have anything extra that I really need to be working for the way that Amelia does. And so I could probably have a really nice time next semester just going to class and focusing on my thesis and maybe trying to write something and get published and but I feel like I want to keep one of my jobs so I because I want it's like I want to feel as busy as she is so that I don't I'm convinced that if I'm running around as much as she's running around then maybe I'll stop caring about the cups or something like that. Or I won't feel like I'm just waiting around anymore. I don't know. And that probably won't be the case because I've been really busy before and I still find time to clean the house because it's something that's important to me. [00:15:07.01] So I don't know.

THERAPIST: It seems like you well, tell me if this sounds right. You vacillate between feeling like well Amelia has really important things to do, like maybe unlike me sometimes, and then feeling kind of frustrated, like come on.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I do. I go back and forth between the two. Because when I try to reason with myself I'm like well she does she has a ridiculous amount like her schedule right now is insane. Just the way their program is structured. 13 hour days is crazy. And then she has to do homework and plan for her clients on top of that. There's not enough time in the day for everything that they have to do. [00:16:00.27] And she has two jobs. So I'm not really it's not so I understand that she has important things to do. And I don't know what it's like to be that busy. But she's also the kind of person that we have worked on this and she's gotten a lot better at being able to say no to things, but she is like the yes man. And she'll take on probably more than not more than she's able because she always gets it done, but she takes on a lot. And so I think I tend to still take on what's reasonable, what I can reasonably accomplish and still get have some time. So I know she has important stuff to do but then I can't help but get frustrated because I'm still even though she's doing important things I still feel like I'm just I feel like a housewife. I go to the store by myself. I go for walks or go for runs by myself and I always see the other moms at the store and I'm like oh, I guess this is so it's hard not to feel frustrated at that sometimes. [00:17:11.19]

THERAPIST: It's not only a housewife, it's being alone.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So it has a particular connotation to a housewife.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Without a partner.

CLIENT: So it probably will be better when I go back to class because I'll be around people. I won't just be going and sitting at my desk at work. And I'll see my friends more often because they all live in Brickston. So I'm sure that will help a little bit. Yeah, really I guess it really is just like being alone. [00:18:06.04] (pause) Even when Amelia does come home I mean last night she had something due at midnight and hadn't had time to really finish it yet this week, and so like we watched the game for like 15 minutes together while we ate dinner but then she was just working all night. I was still just like I was in the living room; she was in the kitchen and like I didn't want her like she barely made her deadline so I didn't want to bother her. So I'm still just like sitting there by myself. And I feel like I remember last semester or all last year during like the last two semesters we were in school, I had work because I had a class. [00:19:05.09] So we'd do she'd be in the kitchen doing work but then I'd be there too, and we'd sit at the table together and do work, and that felt a little bit better. So I probably should I bet if I started working on my thesis a little bit now it would but it's just hard to feel that urgency to do something. I do work I do my best work when I have a firm deadline to meet. And it's really hard to get ahead with a ahead of the game when I also don't really have a clear idea what I'm doing.

THERAPIST: It's like you're describing feeling like she's not available to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe a little bit. I don't feel like, I don't know, maybe I do feel a little neglected, but not I mean she's always there if I need her. [00:20:05.29] If last night if I wanted to talk about something, like if I had gone into the kitchen, she would've stopped what she was doing. I don't know.

THERAPIST: I think what I had was something a little different [inaudible] but there's like knowing that you can turn to someone when you need them, then there's just someone who's accessible.

CLIENT: And we do our best we do a really good job of spending a lot of quality time together over the weekends. And it's great. We really anytime we're together and there's nothing else distracting us, we always connect really well. [00:21:06.03] And so we have a great time when it's not during the week. Which makes me feel like she's right, this is temporary. When she doesn't have to take night classes and plan for clients and get her schoolwork done and have a full time I mean like however many jobs she has then it will be different. [inaudible] the weekends go by so fast and then it's all week by myself again. But I also would like to be at a place where I don't need Amelia to be around all the time to not feel like I'm alone. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, I wasn't implying that there's something in your relationship that needs to change. I guess I was sort of pointing at that, but it's about your experience, about kind of it makes me think about what we were talking about a few weeks ago. [00:22:03.08] This is like you were in college and then you were in the Red Cross and now kind of this is your adult life. And you're on your own in some respects and hopefully you have a loving partner and you're not [inaudible] in that respect. It's a completely different stage of life.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, it totally is, especially when you put it that way because I've gone consistently from being from one close community of people to another. And like everything, whether it was my elementary and middle school, was extremely small and very close like all the I just grew up in a really small town, and so all the schools I went to were always small, high school was really tiny. My college was really tiny. I was always on team sports that had that very close community like family kind of feel. And then sleepaway camp and my semesters abroad and then my experiences volunteering abroad and even in the Red Cross has always been this community of people that I've had like and kind of like an immediate support network around me. And then this is definitely the first time that I've ever with just me and Amelia kind of. [00:23:14.21] And we have our friends, but it's not the same. It's totally different. (pause) And I've always liked just doing things with groups or teams or it's always been my thing. [00:24:08.04] I'm really good at working with other people and doing stuff with other people. I think I do a lot better, I think, at my job because it does feel much more like a team atmosphere than I feel at the firm.

THERAPIST: Except when the people are out of the office. Isn't that what happened last week?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, but like when everybody's there I feel a lot more motivated to get my work done and do it well. (pause) And that's why I've always thought that's why I'm studying what I'm studying and the reason I want to go into the field I'm going into, is because I've always enjoyed doing things like at grassroots level and working with other people and just interacting with people. [00:25:08.06] (pause) I used to [ph] waitress for a really short period of time but I really liked that. It's like an awesome job to have. It's good to talk to people all the time. And like the friendlier you are the more you money you make. Like I was it was great. (pause)

THERAPIST: What were you thinking about? [00:26:20.25]

CLIENT: I was just thinking I don't know. What was I just thinking about? I mean it's slowly gotten better the longer I feel like maybe not the longer we've been here, but I feel like I meet like there's a new there's this girl Brenda who just started at On the Rise a couple of months ago, and we like we get along really well, kind of like instantly kind of thing. So we're talking we're going to join a gym together so that we can work out during the winter. And I was like maybe that will help because like I'll you know what I mean? It's something to do. And I was thinking how I feel I need to like I have friends that I can go drink with after work, but that's not really what I want to do after work. [00:27:08.27] I want to go for a run or I want to I need to get my energy out after I've been sitting all day. And so I'm not going to go join a team sport. It'd be nice to have somebody to like go to the gym with or get some exercise with. So I was thinking that that would be fun when we start doing that. Because I was I mean and I said this last week, that's one of the big things I feel like I'm missing right now, is having like playing a team sport. I mean in college that was like the that was like my identity in college. And even in the Red Cross I was like a rugby player because I went straight from college into the Red Cross. And so I hadn't lost that yet. And my rugby teammates in college were my best friends and we did everything together. [00:28:04.04] And I don't know. There's like for me there's not a lot of feelings like there is when you're on the field with people and you're playing well and you're like getting a good workout in and you're working well together, and I just love it. And I feel like that's if I did have that right now, I feel like a lot of things would be different.

THERAPIST: You think your anxiety would be less?

CLIENT: It might not go away. I think it would still because obviously there's some deep shit that's causing my anxiety. But I think it would help a lot. I mean number one you have practice a couple of times a week and then there's you're busy because and I remember it really helped me structure my once I started playing rugby my grades also went up. And I felt like it gave me a lot of good structure. [00:29:00.26] I have practice at 4:30 so if I want to hang out and go get beers with my teammates afterwards, or if we're having a team dinner then I need to get this paper done by 4:30. And it made like I made sure that and then you want to work out in the off days so that you can be ready for your practice or your game. I don't know, I felt like it brought a lot of good structure to my schedule. And also like working out does give me short term relief from my anxiety. So yeah, I think it would help.

THERAPIST: So what do you think some of this deep shit is?

CLIENT: I don't know. I just am I am just making an I mean well it's like obviously some a huge part of it I think is genetic. Or maybe not a huge part but there I feel like that has to say something, the fact that so many people in my family struggle with it so much. And I don't know. I just feel like there must be thinking back on like all the self-esteem issues I had growing up and like the separation anxiety we talked about last week, since now I'm starting to make connections to when I was really, really young. [00:30:09.28] I'm thinking like oh, there's probably lots of things going on here. But I don't know. It's weird that I didn't really feel like this in college all that much. Or when I was in Egypt. And I don't really know what's different. Like I always try to sit down and think like what's different about now versus when I was in Egypt. And one of them is definitely those like tight community that you mentioned before.

THERAPIST: And you guys were all doing the same thing, I mean to some extent.

CLIENT: To some extent. We all had different work environments but we the experience of living in Egypt as an American is similar enough that we all were going through the same thing, yeah. Yeah, and that's the thing. In each one of those experiences there was something that bonded us all together. [00:31:05.14] Whether in college you're all in college together, going through what all college students go through. But then in each of my other little stints abroad, when you're living abroad or doing whatever you're doing abroad, we're all in the same program. You go through the same emotions, and so it definitely bonds you together, yeah. Although there is definitely elements of extreme isolation when I was in Egypt. Because I was the only lesbian that had to lie about those things. I was the only lesbian that then got outed to my best friend by a Red Cross staff. I mean there was like some heavy stuff that happened that was very isolating for me.

THERAPIST: Someone intentionally outed you?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: It was an Egyptian. It's a very long story, which actually, ironically, starts with Amelia because when we first Red Cross doesn't really, in my opinion and the opinion of many other people, they don't really handle their diverse volunteers that go to extremely conservative countries very well. [00:32:17.12] And so when we got to country I knew that I couldn't tell anybody I was gay. But they assign us they put us in groups with Egyptians who are language cultural facilitators. They're Red Cross employees that are there to teach us the language and the culture, and so all of our assumptions were that these are Red Cross employees, they're people we can confide in, and anything we can tell an American Red Cross employee I'm sure we can tell an Egyptian Red Cross employee.

So Amelia was roommates with her language and cultural facilitator living in their the village they were living in. And this young woman was extremely, extremely religiously conservative. And Amelia thought that she was helping her to open her mind by telling her that I was gay, which we later found out we shouldn't have been she shouldn't have said that to anybody that's Egyptian, which I mean it brings up a whole other list of issues that they're making blanket statements. [00:33:17.10] Like you can't tell any Egyptian this because there's a lot of really liberal and very western like or I mean it's yeah, I could talk about that for a very long time. But so this young woman then told another female LCF who ended up working as an LCF again the following year while we were still in the country but a new group of volunteers were coming. And my best friend, who was my landlord's daughter, so we shared a house; I lived on the first floor, got a job with Red Cross as an LCF and was telling the other LCFs about her close relationship with me. And then this young woman, who was received this information from Amelia's former roommate, who's extremely homophobic, said oh, her my friend's name is Julia. [ph] [00:34:05.10] She said oh, Julia, [ph] you think Kelsey and you were so close. I bet you didn't know that she's a lesbian.

So yeah. It was a very dramatic situation. And the Red Cross was completely at fault and responsible. But yeah, I mean it was I mean it worked out wonderfully. My Julia [ph] is an incredible person. She's completely nonjudgmental and very liberal and after I mean it took us a very long time to rebuild our trust because she was like why would you you lied to me. She wasn't upset that I was gay, it was that I didn't tell her. And but yeah, I mean we're still extremely close to this day. But it was a trying period. And there was no other volunteer in my same position that really under my friends were sympathetic, but it was hard for them to be really empathetic because it's really a weird feeling having to hide two very major parts of your identity like that. [00:35:13.29] And then also having to listen to and agree with a lot of homophobic statements all the time.

But yeah, I mean there was a huge barrier, I felt, with making relationships with Egyptians, my counterparts, my coworkers, my friends. And I felt like we could get close to a certain extent, but the way that Julia [ph] and my friendship grew after we moved past that was incredible. And it was like I couldn't get past this wall with my other Egyptian friends because it was so much about like I wasn't being mean. We'd sit there and joke about my future husband or what am I doing for Easter and Christmas, and I'd have to go along with it because that's what Red Cross told you to do. So yeah, it was so I did there was major moments of isolation going on there. [00:36:06.25] And actually I started so I guess I did experience a high amount of anxiety while I was there because I started going to therapy while I was there because I had a panic attack. But it was different than the anxiety I feel now.

THERAPIST: What was that anxiety like?

CLIENT: It was like I experienced a lot of verbal harassment, street harassment, in my village. And...

THERAPIST: Just for being a woman, being American?

CLIENT: Both. Being a western woman who didn't cover her head, and I liked to walk because I needed to get exercise because I didn't want to feel like I was holed up I worked out for two hours a day at my house, jump roping and with resistance bands that like hung off my door. But I needed to get out of the house a little bit, and you just couldn't go anywhere. I had lit cigarettes thrown at me. I had rocks thrown at me. [00:37:00.21] I had really nasty things yelled at me. And in Egyptian culture, to even say good morning to a woman that is someone of the opposite sex who's not your spouse or your blood relative is extremely disrespectful. And so to then be saying these really crude, sexual, disgusting comments is like sometimes they would just be like hello, how are you. But even that carries with it such disrespect. It was hard for me to explain this to people that weren't in Egypt because hello, how are you in Egypt is the same as come suck my cock in walking around the street in Providence. Sorry, that's vulgar, but it's like just on a different level. And because I experienced a good deal of street harassment when I was living in Madagascar but it was such a different I handled it in such a different way because I felt like empowered to stand up for myself, whereas in Egypt it was kind of like you had to like not make a big deal out of it and it would be worse if you I was masturbated to on a bus and I couldn't I didn't say anything because I was scared that me just as an unmarried woman knowing what masturbation was in the first place was going to be worse for me at the end. [00:38:23.22] And then I later found out that everybody on the bus knew it was happening and nobody did anything about it. And there were women on the bus. Nobody did anything.

THERAPIST: So it was some guy sort of staring at you and...

CLIENT: Oh yeah. I mean I was he had moved seats to get closer to me, and there was not many people in the back of the bus where we were. And he was sitting across the aisle from me and I like noticed it looked like he was scratching his leg for a while. And I just turned to look out the window and I saw that his hand was in his pants and he was going at it. So it was I mean it was it was a feeling that it was just gross. I felt really violated. So I started having a lot of anxiety about leaving my house because I didn't want to have to deal with it. [00:39:06.06] And then I had a panic attack on a bus because I was worried it was only me and this group of young men, and they were really rowdy. And they were yelling things at me and the bus driver was driving really fast, and I lived outside the city on a farm, so I was I started to get scared that he wasn't going to stop to let me off the bus at my house. And so I had a panic attack and started crying. And then I was like okay, I think I need to go to therapy because I can't leave I couldn't leave my house. And not everybody had it like that. Amelia's village was totally different. She didn't have any issues with harassment.

THERAPIST: How long were you there for?

CLIENT: Two 27 months.

THERAPIST: Wow. And was it like this most of the time?

CLIENT: Mm-hm.

THERAPIST: That's horrible.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That sounds like a really traumatic experience.

CLIENT: In the beginning you shake it off because you think it's going to get better when I integrate, and so then it also makes you feel like you haven't done your job of integrating into your community. But my village was still a town of 150,000 people so it was hard. [00:40:04.15] I didn't know everybody, and when I started teaching an English class to all it was an all men's, an adult male English class that I was teaching because it was the only way for me to really interact with men in any way. And it was professional. When I started teaching the English class and I had all these students who they looked out for me around town, and I did notice a slight drop in the amount I was getting harassed but there's still you can't know everybody in a city that big. So it just never got better. And so it was yeah, it was hard. And so I mean you can't like even now, yeah, it was traumatizing. I can't walk down the street and have men be like if there's a guy walking towards me, if he like for some reason I think he's going to lunge at me. I just get like really nervous. It took me a while to start being able to go out after dark because that was something we did you couldn't do in Egypt for safety reasons in where I lived. [00:41:08.12] In the capital you can but you still need to be careful.

THERAPIST: Did you ever think about moving to a different asking for a different assignment?

CLIENT: No, because I loved my family that I lived with and I loved my I felt like that wasn't no, I never thought of that. I loved where I lived. Even now, looking back, I'd go back and do it again. There were other I mean there were some villages where that wouldn't happen, but that was pretty much the standard. And there were girls that had it a lot worse than me. I mean there was one girl who lived up in a village in the mountains, and she had bruises on her face from the rocks that she would get thrown at her. She stuck out like a sore thumb; she was of German descent, really tall and blond. And it helped that I had brown curly hair. Some people thought I was Arab so because we were right on the Arab border. But yeah, no, I never would have I wouldn't have if I could go back and do my service again I would still do it in the same village. [00:42:04.20] I loved it there, aside from this. But it's caused me to be extremely racist against Arab men which I don't I'm really unhappy about.

THERAPIST: Well, and a little bit fearful too.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It definitely had its aftermath.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's funny because you think of like people going into the Red Cross to like learn more about other cultures, and now I feel like I've come back with really negative ideas of Arab men, and some Arab women because they don't stand up for you. (pause) And I was told multiple times it was my fault that that guy was masturbating to me on the bus by my coworkers and but the family I lived with, like they would've it's a good thing I didn't know who that guy was because my landlord's son would've actually beat him up. [00:43:04.27] They looked out for me. Yeah. Once in a it would build up and then once in a while someone would say it'd be like a couple of weeks of people saying really nasty things and then all it would take is like one guy to be like hey, how are you and then I'd just freak, just like freak out at him. And then once you say something and it's in Arabic and it's like you're shaming them, and they know that you know what they said to you and it's like oh my God. I can't now I'm in trouble. But I just kind of helped tried to hold it in a lot.

And the whole two years was me like holding in my thoughts about Israel and my thoughts about being religious and my experiences being gay. I just held everything in. I had a two hour argument once with one of my good friends about religion. [00:44:09.09] And I had to argue like the for in favor of Christian beliefs when one of my friends wanted to know more about why we think Jesus is the son of God or why Jesus we consider Jesus God. I spent two hours trying to argue that Jesus is God basically. All I wanted to do was be like I don't know. I'm with you. I don't believe that. So on the one hand I find it kind of humorous, and I have some great stories, like when my family came to visit. It was like and they're so if you can think of the stereotypical Jewish family from the suburbs of Chicago, that is my family. And here they are in Egypt during Ramadan. And it was wonderful. I mean on the one hand I remember we were driving back from so the first three months the reason it's 27 months, the first three months you're in a very small a much smaller community, usually, than where you end up doing your two years of service to acclimate to the culture and learn the language. [00:45:15.18] So we call it our host village from training.

So we went to visit my host family and they are in the boons. I mean the desert, it is they're Bedouins. And I had never experienced anything like that, let alone my parents. And I remember we went and had we broke fast with them after Ramadan. We were in the car on the way back to my parents' hotel. My brother was like wow, like who would've thought a family from Greenwich would be in the Egyptian desert breaking fast with a Bedouin family. And I thought that was really cool.

But then we're there's another situation where we were sitting with a large group of people when the Americans come it's everyone's sitting all around the room just looking at us and my poor parents. I'm chatting with everyone but my poor parents are just sitting there looking terrified. And my host uncle wanted me to tell my parents that they love Americans but not all. [00:46:13.18] He was like make sure you tell them we don't like them all. And I was like okay, yeah. So I halfway translated that because I didn't want my parents to be scared. Because I'm used to hearing stuff like that and it slides right off me, but my parents aren't used to hearing that. And he could tell that I hadn't said everything so he pushed it again. He pushed it again. And I was like yeah, I told them. And he kept pushing it. So finally my mom's like what's he saying. Well he wants you to know that they love America and Americans but they just want to make sure you understand that they really don't like certain people. And my dad's face just went white. And he's like thinking they know [ph] if they're going to kill us. It was to me it was hilarious but so I feel like I have a mix of really funny and crazy stories. And then there's like this other layer of it that was really damaging for me. [00:47:03.01] So yeah.

THERAPIST: I feel like I mean I feel like there's a lot more for us to talk about on that. I imagine there are ways in which it impacted you, some of which you know and some of which may not even be clear at this point.

CLIENT: I'm sure.

THERAPIST: Two plus years is a long time.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I haven't really processed it, I don't think. When you come back we went on vacation to Thailand right after, and then we came back to America and I lived with my parents. And I remember I talked at my synagogue about cultural understanding and exchange and stuff but I never really sat down with anyone and was like I think that I'm pretty fucked up after what I went through.

THERAPIST: We're going to need to stop for today. Does this time work for you?

CLIENT: Yeah, it is a little better for me. So and it's better for you, right?

THERAPIST: Yeah, it is little better for me. So that's great. The other thing is I don't know if I went over this with you last week with the insurance statements. Did I mention anything?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Okay, so my insurance prefers that you submit, not me. [00:48:04.08]

CLIENT: Okay, that's fine.

THERAPIST: So my assistant will e-mail you the statement that just gets sent to them, and she'll also e-mail you the link for the form that you fill out, which is like your name, member ID and address, and that's it. And that just gets mailed in. So just explain what she usually does it at the end of the month. So probably before the next time we see each other you'll get it.

CLIENT: Okay, so I'll look out for that and then I mail it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, the form she gives you, the link with the you fill out a couple of things and then just mail it in.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Okay, great.

CLIENT: Awesome.

THERAPIST: Okay great.

CLIENT: And then if that's not included in the there's still like an extra $40 a session.

THERAPIST: Then that's a separate right, exactly. So that's the piece that they pay and then there's the copay. So she'll probably e-mail you a copay statement separate from the insurance.

CLIENT: Okay, awesome.

THERAPIST: Okay. So I'll see you next week.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know if you're trick or treating tonight, but enjoy.

THERAPIST: Thank you. Thank you very much. Take care.

CLIENT: You too.

END TRANSCRIPT