TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Will it bother you if I eat this little bit [ph]? I haven’t had a chance to have lunch yet. Thanks. How are you?

THERAPIST: Good, thank you. How are you doing?

CLIENT: Good.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah. Amelia was away this last weekend and everything was fine until her flight got canceled on Sunday. And then it was like I lost it. She jokes around that I mean it’s not a funny joke, but she works with kids on the autistic spectrum a lot, so she knows a lot about autism and whatnot. And she will lightly say sometimes about my autistic tendencies because I very much like to have a schedule and a plan, and if that gets disrupted, then I get very anxious. So it was like all weekend this was like a big thing for her to be away for I mean she flew out Thursday at like 5:30 in the morning and she wasn’t supposed to get in until Sunday three o’clock in the afternoon. And so that was like a good chunk of time that we hadn’t really done and I hadn’t yet, since we moved here, been in Boston overnight without her except for the first night that I moved in because she was getting in the next day. [00:03:19.13] But so I was like working up to this, and I did pretty well the whole day, or the whole weekend, and we like because she was also good about texting and calling to say hi and stuff like that. And then it was like finally, Sunday was here, and I was so excited to go pick her up at three o’clock. And then I mean I don’t know if you saw any of the news, but they had very, very serious weather and a massive tornado outbreak in out in Philadelphia. And so she was in Philadelphia and so it was just like they I mean they cancelled all the flights out that day until the nighttime. So I was like thinking that my God, this is like she’s not coming back to me. [00:04:03.26] This is my fear coming true now. So that was a hard day. And she ended up getting a flight to Baltimore because they weren’t really putting people on flights until like Tuesday at that point. So I was like just fly to Baltimore; I can drive and pick you up there. So it was a very long, stressful day because then I ended up having to drive to Baltimore. But that flight got delayed so she didn’t really get in until like 11:30 at night. So we had to stay in Baltimore for the night and then leave at six o’clock in the morning so she could get back for her clients. So it was like a very long, exhausting day on Sunday. For me. She was fine. She made friends and was having beers at the airport in Philadelphia, and she could’ve stayed there for as long as she needed to. But I was very stressed about her getting home safely. So I was like damn it. I was so close to having done a successful weekend alone. And it was great. I had a good time. It was hard the first night, and I had this event for work so it was nice to have her there. [00:05:04.19] And so it was like I woke up and I was pretty sad on Friday morning, thinking that the weekend was here. I felt like she wasn’t going to be around for the weekend. But then I ended up we chatted for a little while Friday before I went to work, and then I felt better and I had a nice weekend. I spent a lot of time with friends I hadn’t seen in a long time and it felt good. And I even had fun hanging out by myself, and I watched some movies and relaxed. Especially Sunday morning because I was like oh, she’s coming home today. So I really just hung out and watched a movie in bed in the morning. But so it was good. It was all I feel like it was good. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad that I freaked out when her flight got cancelled. I think that that’s something that I would expect me to do at this point. It’s not like I don’t feel like a regression because that happened. It was just like kind of a bummer because I had done pretty well the whole weekend. [00:06:03.27] But it was good. I feel like I don’t want to do it again, but I feel like if she were to go away again or, for example, one of my good friends from college works for a consulting firm, and so she’s on different assignments every couple of months. And her next one’s going to be in Quebec. And I’m a big skier, snowboarder, grew up going to the mountains and stuff and so I’ve always I have never skied there before. I would love to go. And so she gets they’ll fly anybody to her for the weekend. So I could get a free flight to go to Vail for a weekend. And normally I would be like really anxious about doing that and going by myself because I don’t like flying and Amelia wouldn’t be coming with me. But I like feel excited about doing that and we’re making plans to do that. I don’t feel like terrified of it. I mean I feel a little bit like hmmm, sucks that I’m going by myself, but I’m not not making the plans. [00:07:04.02] So that feels good too. So I feel like this weekend was a nice step one to not feeling like so I feel like maybe if this was because this same friend had wanted me to fly out for a ski trip to Montana. I mean it was a little bit different circumstances. I would’ve had to pay for my flight and I just couldn’t afford it. But I know that if I would’ve asked my parents they would’ve been we’ll buy you a birthday present to go see your friends from college. But I didn’t really I was like okay with not going. That was this past April. And so I feel like this is better than that because I’m actively excited to go and making plans to go instead of trying to find an excuse not to leave.

THERAPIST: So you said this is step one. How many steps do you think there are?

CLIENT: I don’t know, hopefully not too many. I don’t know. [00:08:03.17] I never really thought about what whether I guess I’ve never really thought of myself as being anxiety free. I don’t know if that’s a possibility or not. That would be great if I never thought twice about doing these kinds of things. I don’t know. It would also be weird to be like okay, there’s ten steps or seven steps because then I would put I would be probably anxious about what getting what’s going to happen after that; when’s that next step going to come in. What if I’m not having to reach that. You know what I mean? So I’m okay with just saying that I took a baby step. And maybe I’ll take another one in February if I fly to Quebec. And this week’s been fun because Amelia’s back. So it’s like exciting to get to hang out with her again. But that girl at work that I was telling you about, I think, two weeks ago, has been it’s been I don’t know, not bothering me necessarily but I think I mean we were very flirtatious with each other, and my boss finally said something. [00:09:22.17] Not I mean not as my boss, as my friend. She was drinking at the event, and afterwards she was like I have to ask you, Brenda flirts with you and you flirt back, and what is going on. And so it’s now like open topic at work between there’s like I mean it’s almost like not levels. Well, there is levels because at the house we have the program that actually happens on the first couple of floors, and that’s where the women come in and do use our services and whatnot. And the advocates that work one on one with the women are down there. And then on the second floor we have or the third floor, I guess, is kind of the middle ground where that and this is where Brenda’s office is, like the operations stuff. [00:10:05.11] So they do work one on one with the women but they also do some behind the scenes stuff. And then the executive director and the development staff, which is where I am, is on the top floor. And so we have like our little development team. And we’re friends. We gossip. We chat about personal stuff. And so like up on the third floor it’s open topic now. What’s going on with Brenda. But something must I think something happened after the event. Either she had a good friend there and I think I don’t know. I think somebody said something to her. Someone saw the way we were interacting and somebody said something to her because I’ve noticed a change in how she acts around me, which I think is good because then this needs to be squashed. It doesn’t need to escalate. Not that I think it would escalate but I just I don’t know. But then I’ve also feel like a little disappointed that she doesn’t so blatantly hit on me anymore. I think I was liking the attention.

THERAPIST: What do you think we talked a little bit about this, but what do you think that this was about? [00:11:03.09]

CLIENT: I don’t know. This has not happened ever since I started dating Amelia. Or maybe it has. I think it’s not because I don’t feel sexual desire for her necessarily. I mean I think she’s attractive and I enjoy the attention that she was giving me, but I don’t ever feel like I need to exit the room because I’m going to make a move. It’s not I don’t have any desire to be sexual with her or to kiss her or anything like that.

THERAPIST: There’s not an immediacy.

CLIENT: Yeah, no. I’m not worried that I’m going to do something because I don’t have that desire at all. But I don’t know. I guess I was having dinner with a friend of mine over the weekend and trying to catch her up on the situation and talk to her about it, and there was one of our she goes to school with me, and we had a classmate named Kennedy from Chile who was just absolutely stunning. And so we would always talk like oh, Kennedy’s so gorgeous. [00:12:05.03] And it was just always something that we talked about. But so I was trying to come up with an analogy to the Brenda situation. I was like it’s like if Kennedy all of a sudden started hitting on you and started flirting with you. So it’s like you think someone’s attractive but I think that what’s different about this situation is that Brenda is flirting with me and kind of hitting on me a little bit. And so I think that that’s where it’s like taken to the next because I’ve always like I think women are attractive. Not all women, but when I see somebody that I find attractive I don’t not think they’re attractive because I’m in a committed relationship. But this is the first time that I think it’s been mutual, if that’s I don’t know if it’s mutual because I don’t know. For all I know the girl could be straight as an arrow and I’m totally seeing something else in the situation. I don’t think that’s the case but...

THERAPIST: Because other people are saying that.

CLIENT: Because my boss is like yeah. But so I don’t know if that’s what makes this different than another situation. [00:13:05.27] I don’t feel guilt. I mean I don’t necessarily feel guilty. I talked to Amelia about it. I don’t think Amelia knows that I like or she probably does because she knows me. She probably knows that I flirt a little bit back. But I talked to her more about the way Brenda interacts with me. She’s not fazed by it at all. I don’t know. And I’m not yeah, I don’t know. I still don’t really know what to make of the situation. I’m pretty sure it’s fine. I’m pretty sure it’s normal and healthy but then I have some doubt too.

THERAPIST: And what’s the doubt?

CLIENT: How would I feel if this was going on with Amelia and somebody. I also know that I am a much more jealous person than Amelia is. So and I totally have that double standard where I feel like I’m going to flirt with this person but Amelia better not. [00:14:08.01] I don’t know. It’s also I find that it’s hard to tell whether so my disappointment in her not interacting with me in that way anymore and her not like we used to for a couple of weeks she would text me a lot outside of work, and we were going to the gym together. And then all of a sudden the last week and a half that really stopped. And I feel like I’m always being like hey, do you want to go to the gym. And then she doesn’t end up she’ll go an hour after I’m there. I’ll pass her on the way out kind of having not heard from her. Which is just like strange. And so what I can’t tell is whether I feel disappointed that I’m not getting that flirty attention or if I just saw somebody like a potential friend which because I know that it can get like convoluted sometimes, especially with for me being gay, with women. When you court someone as your friend it there’s all these other weird layers that go into it because what if are they gay. [00:15:08.25] If they are gay are they going to think that you’re hitting on them. If they’re not gay are they going to think that you’re hitting on them or who how much of this is and so it becomes very complicated. And so I can’t even tell if my feelings have to do with like for example, today I usually I got to work early today so I don’t have to go back to work after we finish. And I’m going down to Amherst to go to an event with Amelia but that’s not until six, so I have this awkward hour-ish that doesn’t really make sense for me to go home because the T is right here. But so we were throwing around the idea of going to get a drink after work. And Brenda was involved in the conversation but the two other women that were going to come with us are kind of on the fence about whether they’re going to go or not. So I sent Brenda a message before I left and I was like Jerry [ph] and Lola aren’t sure if they want to go. We can either if they don’t go we can either rain check for next week or you and I can go hang out at the field for 45 minutes before I have to go downtown. [00:16:04.29] And she’s like yeah, if they don’t want to come, let’s just go next week. So I’m like okay, I feel disappointed, but do I feel disappointed because obviously she doesn’t want to spend time alone with me or because I just want a buddy to go hang out with for 45 minutes. And I just can’t tell.

THERAPIST: Maybe it’s both.

CLIENT: Yeah, probably. I like attention. I’ve always been someone that likes attention like that. So I’m sure that that has a little bit something to do with it. But I don’t know. I feel very confused by the situation. (pause) But yeah, I just don’t know. [00:17:02.11] And now I feel kind of ridiculous. Like my so much mental effort should not be you know what I mean? My boss calls her a twinkie. I don’t know why. She’s just like really small and young. And I’m just thinking, what she’s just this little young person. She’s like I don’t understand why I don’t know. I mean it doesn’t like keep me up at night, but I think it also has to do with the fact that she for and I think I said this when we first started talking with each other, but my friends from Wellesley, they all live out in Brickston. I don’t really have a friend I can just call if I have an hour or two to kill or just to come to the gym with me around here. I finally found someone that lives around here that is interested in the same things I’m interested in. [00:18:04.02] I thought that this would be a good, finally, move in that direction where I cannot just sit around waiting for Amelia to get home, but I have someone to go hang out with or go work out with or something like that. And now I think I’m frustrated that this person also happens to be someone that I had like a flirty interaction with. And now I think it’s just awkward. (pause) Yeah, I think it’s probably yeah, I think it’s a mix of both. Especially because I don’t think it was like that big of a deal. I don’t know. I we could easily just stop flirting with each other. You know what I mean? [00:19:01.15] It’s not like we were it’s not like we kissed or we had this moment where it was a close call. It was never even close to anything like that. I never had those thoughts. So I’m just angry about it because I don’t think it should be into this I don’t know. I just wanted a buddy. I don’t understand why she had to start flirting with me. (pause) And I know I’m not supposed to ask you if it’s normal or healthy, but..

THERAPIST: You can there’s nothing you’re not supposed to ask me, for sure. I might not have a good answer for you. So what do you think the what are you wanting to know in that question? [00:20:03.17] Do you think you’re wanting reassurance?

CLIENT: Not necessarily, if I shouldn’t be reassured.

THERAPIST: But you...

CLIENT: I guess I’m wondering if is this a symptom of something bigger going on that I need to address, is that’s my concern. Is there something that between Amelia and I that’s not you know what I mean? It’s not like I’m concerned is something wrong there that I’m not aware of that’s making me feel disappointed that Brenda isn’t really hitting on me anymore? (pause) And I don’t know if it all just comes back to her just being really busy and me looking for that attention elsewhere.

THERAPIST: I’m wondering if it’s a symptom that you’re not satisfied in some way. [00:21:04.27]

CLIENT: Yeah. But I know the answer to that question because I’m not 100% satisfied right now. And Amelia knows that. We’ve talked about it. Because she’s just and she can’t it’s there’s not enough time in the day for her to make me feel 110% satisfied. (pause) But yeah, I think that’s probably what stresses me out about the whole thing, is that I wonder what does this is this telling me something about my relationship right now. (pause) What do you think? [00:22:07.11]

THERAPIST: I don’t know. If I actually thought oh, I think it’s this or I think it’s that, I would certainly share it with you. All I know with some definitiveness is you’re a little worried about it.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I think it was just something like new. I feel like I was in this lull for a while, just feeling like I was by myself and really alone and isolated, and Amelia wasn’t really around. And then like just at that time, Brenda comes into the picture and starts giving me some new and exciting attention. I think it was just a bad coincidence that it happened when I was at that as I’m at that point. [00:23:02.12] Because then I’m responding to it because then I’m getting attention that I’m not getting at home or something like that. It’s hard like day after day when Amelia comes home and doesn’t want to be romantic or affectionate because she has so much to do. And so I start to get I don’t know. Like it has been a while since we had sex because she’s just so busy. And I it’s also that I’ve been sick. So I don’t feel like having sex when I’m feeling well. Because it was a combination of these things. It had been a really long time. And then when she got back from Philadelphia I guess it was Tuesday I don’t know. She came home on Tuesday night and we had an amazing night. It was like from like a moment from when we first started dating back in the Red Cross. And it felt so amazing and it was like all I could think about the next day. But then last night was kind of like she was got home at 9:30 from class, and she had to get up at five o’clock in the morning to plan for her clients, so it’s a lot. [00:24:10.05] I was like trying to be wanted to have a do over of the night before but it wasn’t really going to happen and because I’m finally feeling better and healthy and I feel like my sex drive is back. And it’s not her fault that she’s exhausted after a 13 hour day. But on Tuesday night I felt like in that moment it was I didn’t think about anything else. I wasn’t worried about Brenda or anything else. So it felt good. So I think it’s just maybe at the time I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Well it sounds like there are some really good experiences. It sounds like what you’re worried about is the sustaining part of it sort of carrying over day to day, being able to hold onto the good experiences when you feel she’s unavailable.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess because when we first started dating, for the first four or five months when we were still in Egypt, it was like that every day because we didn’t really have anything else to do. [00:25:09.14] Go to work for four or five hours, but that’s the life of a Red Cross volunteer. You just sit around for most of the time. And so we had all the time in the world to have days like that every day. So I miss that. I mean I feel like I and this week especially I’ve been really missing just the adventure of being out of the country and doing something that you’ll never do, you wouldn’t typically do. And it’s like I don’t know. I just don’t like the going to work at nine o’clock every morning and sitting at my desk and doing whatever my boss tells me to do. It’s just I don’t know. It’s almost over. I’m at in December I go back to school and then I can move onto the next thing. But I’ve just been feeling really nostalgic for Egypt and our experiences there and how much more time Amelia and I had for each other. [00:26:07.27] (pause) And she tells me all the time, this is not going to be and I believe her. This is not real life. Her schedule’s out of control right now. But it won’t be that way when we’re done with school. (pause) Yeah, I’m just like kind of bored. I think a lot of it has to do with work. And it’s like everything right now. [00:27:04.00] I’m just like not having a blast.

THERAPIST: A little bit of emptiness?

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I don’t know. It’s hard to feel like when I’m going to work and sitting in front of a computer and printing out thank you notes. I mean I know I’m working for organizations that do really great things but I want to be the person out there doing the really cool things. I don’t feel like I’m I don’t know. When we were in Egypt and we’d go to work every day and see our see my students and stuff like that. And you feel like, I don’t know, something really cool that you do every day. And each morning you don’t know what is going to happen that day. It’s like something different all the time. Even though you’re maybe at the same center or doing the same project it’s still like just the fact that you’re living in a different culture and everything is new and something crazy happens most of the time. Not all in a good way, but you can look back and kind of laugh at most of the things. And so yeah, I just guess I’m having wanderlust or I don’t know. [00:28:06.22] And Amelia gets this way too. We’re very similar like this. We both plan on going back into the Red Cross after we’re married, doing it together again. And she wants to live abroad and work abroad, and we both have those same desires and stuff like that. But I don’t think she has time to feel it right now because she’s running around. But I’m just sitting around all day so yeah. So I don’t know if it’s empty. I don’t feel like but I just feel kind of like hmmm, I do the same thing every day.

THERAPIST: You’re not sure if you’re fulfilled enough.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Like if these were my if either of these jobs were my job. [00:29:02.06] But I would not be a happy camper if this was and that’s what I knew going in to getting my master’s degree. This is before getting my degree and these are the positions I’d be qualified for and I knew I wouldn’t be happy with that. But yeah, I would definitely not be feeling fulfilled if this was like my full time job for more than four months. But I know it so there’s only a couple of weeks left.

THERAPIST: It’s the same thing with Amelia. It’s like if this is temporary it’s okay. If you know there’s a time limit. And that’s comforting. And then there’s a sort of nagging worry.

CLIENT: Yeah, what if it’s not mm-hm. Yeah. I mean with the Brenda situation, when I’m with Amelia I don’t think about her. [00:30:08.28] So I think that that’s another reason why I feel like it has to do with this me kind of like going through the motions every day while she’s doing cool things at school and work. Because when I’m with Amelia I’m not like oh, I wonder what Brenda is doing right now.

THERAPIST: It’s the in between that’s the problem. It’s not the comparative, like maybe I’d rather be with Brenda.

CLIENT: No, not even close. She doesn’t hold a candle to Amelia in any way. Amelia is, I think I’ve told you this, she’s literally the girl of my dreams. Like when I was younger, physically the person that I never thought that I would actually be with. And her personality and everything also, like she like I didn’t even and I’ve said this [inaudible] her sometimes. I feel like this is not too good to be true. [00:31:04.24] There’s nobody that I’ve ever met in my entire life that is even close to what Amelia is. (pause) So it makes me kind of mad at Brenda because I’m like you know what I mean? She’s a nice person but I just like I want to be like go away. Stop making me want to flirt with you. (pause) That’s it.

THERAPIST: That’s all. (pause) It’s hard to know where to go from here. [00:33:06.01]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I have this image of you swatting away a fly.

CLIENT: That’s how I feel. She’s really small, also, so that’s how I feel. But then at the same time I feel she’s I feel like we would be really good friends. And I think that’s what’s really frustrating me about this because I’ve had women hit on me since I’ve started dating Amelia, and it’s very easy to make them go away when I don’t have any interest whatsoever in even being their friend. But I feel like what’s difficult about this especially is that I really felt like we could be good friends. And would be good friends. She reminds me of the people I’m friends with. And so I think it’s like frustrating for me because I still want to be like hey, let’s hang out. I have the night off. But otherwise I feel like I would’ve squashed this. [00:34:09.06] Or maybe I wouldn’t have. I mean but that’s why I feel like I feel so frustrated by it because I’m just I finally felt like I had the potential local friend or something. I’m really looking forward to going back to school. I’ll miss working at On the Rise I think. They’re cool. I’ve become good friends with my coworkers there and... THERAPIST: Is that January you go back?

CLIENT: We haven’t really yeah, I go back in January, but we haven’t really had the discussion about when my last day is going to be and they haven’t hired somebody to replace me yet. But yeah, in the spring semester I’ll start. And then I feel I just feel like so much is going to start coming together next semester as well. [00:35:08.16] Because right now I also feel kind of like a sitting duck because I’m on all these listservs for various development organizations and whatnot and associations, and so I see all these job opportunities that I would apply for but it’s too early still. So I kind of have to just wait. And I feel like once next semester comes and I can really start I need to finish up my thesis, I’ll be in classes that I’m excited about, and I can finally start seriously looking at job opportunities and thinking about what’s next, which is exciting when I think about it. I’m very ready to be done with school and be working. And so right now I just feel like I’m in this limbo period, whatever, just waiting for it to be time to really start doing everything. (pause) And yeah, so a lot of cool things are set up to happen next summer. I mean it would really suck if none of these happen, but I should hopefully be becoming employed, and Amelia should be finding out her fellowship placement, and we’ve both we’ve talked about getting married a lot. Not that we’re getting married next summer, probably three to five years down the line, but we’ve talked about after graduation kind of being when the general time period that we would perhaps get engaged, when we very vaguely talk about it. [00:37:04.09] Because I just feel like I want the exciting stuff to start happening. I just feel bored right now.

THERAPIST: Waiting.

CLIENT: Waiting, yeah.

THERAPIST: Waiting [inaudible] what feels like filler time.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) And that’s not necessarily what this semester should be. I’m supposed to be out getting all this practical experience. And I am. Now I know how to do things I didn’t know how to do before I started working there that are good skills to have, that will make me a desirable candidate for a job. But I don’t know. I feel like I learned them in the first week and now I’m just bored still. Yeah. (pause) So it’s like a shitty feeling to just feel bored all the time but not all the time, but yeah, I just feel like I’m waiting. That’s exactly how I feel. I’m just waiting. And that’s how I felt that was one of the hardest parts about Amelia being gone all the time. I just felt like I’m constantly waiting for Amelia to get home, just constantly waiting for the semester to be over so I can so I just feel like it’s all these things that on their own probably wouldn’t be so wouldn’t have such a big impact on me. If it was just that Amelia was really busy but I was also feeling really fulfilled at work or school or something like that, or if it was just one on its own, but or if I was pretty bored at work but Amelia wasn’t all that busy and she was kind of at home too so we still got to spend a lot of quality time together. [00:39:15.19] I just feel like everything together is kind of like having a bigger impact on me. But I also can never tell if I’m just trying to convince myself of these things or if that also makes me nervous.

THERAPIST: Convince yourself of what?

CLIENT: I don’t know, that all this is normal and fine and it’s going to go away. And like convince myself that it’s temporary or convince myself that this is why I feel bored right now, for I’m telling myself that I feel unfulfilled for these temporary reasons. But sometimes I worry that what if I’m just convincing myself that it’s these temporary reasons. And that next semester these temporary reasons won’t be around anymore but I’ll still feel like unfulfilled. [00:40:01.29]

THERAPIST: Well if that’s true we’ll have to look at what else is going on for you.

CLIENT: I feel like that’s not true because I haven’t always felt like this. I have felt like this before during periods of time, but I didn’t feel like this when I was in Egypt. I didn’t feel like this when I was in Madagascar. I didn’t feel like this when I was in Geneva. When I’m traveling and doing like I just I don’t crave adventure. I would never jump out of a plane or go bungee jumping or anything like that, but I crave a different kind of adventure. I don’t know how to describe it. Because those are all international examples, but that’s not necessarily the case. It just happens to be the places where I’ve really felt most excited. So maybe it is.

THERAPIST: I’m sorry [inaudible]. Well, there’s a lot of newness to those experiences and maybe you’re concerned that in the face of routine things can feel easily monotonous. [00:41:06.21] And that maybe you’re worried you’re not having enough of sort of an internal sense of the enliveness.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think that’s yeah, like when I think about having a job that I have to go to every day, do the same thing every day, like oh, I want to vomit. That sounds horrible. That’s why teaching really appealed to me when I was teaching that class at Wellesley. But now I’m worried I shot myself in the foot because now I’m not on a PhD track so I really can’t go and become a professor right away. But I thought that what I was that as much fun as I had teaching that I would have even more fun being out in the field and working with vulnerable communities and stuff like that. Granted, what I’m doing right now is not on the program side. And I did that on purpose because my experiences on grass roots program side of things and I didn’t have experience in fundraising and all the behind the scenes stuff, and so I purposely put myself in the situation this semester. [00:42:08.29] But I think I’m just learning that I really belong on the program side and interacting with different people and working hands-on with whatever project the organization is doing. But yeah, I get really scared when I think about having the same job and the same schedule every day. I don’t know, it sounds so boring. It’s like the we used to joke around about this with the other Red Cross volunteers over beers. The American dream of it’s like those cartoons. Just being bored, like doing the same thing, getting fat and just sitting there eating processed foods and going to a 9 to 5 job and just I don’t know. I find the I don’t know. I just find it boring. Not that other countries are all that much better. [00:43:03.17] I don’t know. I just need to find that thing that’s going to make me feel like I’m doing something meaningful and something enjoyable and something a little bit varied on a day to day basis, and I just haven’t really found out what that is yet I guess.

THERAPIST: When you described this sitting around Egypt I thought of if there was a cartoon, that the byline would be being an adult sucks.

CLIENT: Yeah. Honestly, yeah, pretty much. And that’s what I did. After college I ran away to the Red Cross. And not for professional development, but because I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I wanted to still be a kid and travel and but yeah, you’re right. That’s exactly and that’s, I guess, the more informal way to say it. But yeah, being an adult sucks. But I don’t know. I feel like there has to be something out there for me. Amelia loves what she does. [00:44:07.16] She comes home and she’s excited about it. And that’s how I feel about academia. When I’m in classes and when I was teaching, I’d come home excited about things. I’m excited to do my lesson plans and grade and it’s like it’s very exciting for me. It’s just the politics of academia is what turned me off. But I feel like there has to be something that makes me feel jazzed every day going to work. Time’s running out. I better figure out what it is. I guess it’s not running out. I’m only 28. But...

THERAPIST: So what feels like it’s running out?

CLIENT: I always thought when I get my degree then I’ll go start my career. So I’m like next semester I need to find I don’t know. I mean there is this project I’ve been working on kind of through the consulting firm but kind of on the side. [00:45:05.25] My boss’s wife works for a hospital and she’s in the administration there, and she wanted to implement this sort of women’s leadership development program for the hospital and for their management and administration employees because there’s this big gap in the number there’s a big gender gap in healthcare administration. So not doctors, but the people that run the hospitals and healthcare companies and stuff. It’s like a crazy statistic. Like 70% out of the field are female but there’s less than 1% are actual CEOs within that field. So she contacted me because that’s my specialty in school and whatnot. And I’ve been working with her to develop this program that we’re going to implement next year at the hospital. And she’s been really happy with my work, and she offered me a contracted position through the hospital when I’m finished this semester. So next semester I’ll keep working with her and she’ll pay it’s great. [00:46:01.29] She’ll pay me. This is like kind of what I’m getting my degree to go do. And I’ve had a lot of fun with it. It’s been exciting, and I feel validated, kind of, in my skill set because for the first time someone who’s the Executive Director of Medical Affairs at this big teaching hospital is asking me for advice and listening to what I’m saying and quoting paragraphs from my research that I did for her. I mean it’s kind of exciting. But and I feel like I have fun when I work on that. I don’t work on that project every day when I’m down there, but it’s very exciting for me. So that gives me some hope because that’s kind of like what I would see myself doing after I finish up school. I feel like consulting would give me enough variety because I could have multiple clients. So that gives me a little bit of hope that this is a temporary thing, that I’m moving towards the right direction kind of. And the fact that she wants to hire me to keep working on it means I’m doing it right. [00:47:03.29] So that makes me feel good too. (pause) But I do worry about that, not liking my job or because that’s how my mom my mom hates her job.

THERAPIST: Really.

CLIENT: Mm-hm. She does it for the money.

THERAPIST: Has that always been the case?

CLIENT: Mm-hm.

THERAPIST: Does she complain about it?

CLIENT: Mm-hm. From the as long as I can remember she’s gone from firm to firm to firm and just it’s always been the same. She’s overworked and never made partner and she was a partner and then she went on maternity leave and they fired her. So she sued them and she won because it’s illegal. But since then she hasn’t been able to because she’s older now. So people don’t want people are hiring younger associates to go on partner track, not the 59 year old counsel. [00:48:06.07] So but yeah, she’s always been very open about hating her job. My dad loves his job. So I get nervous, though, when I see parallels between Amelia and I. Because she loves her job. And she would be totally excited to go work at a school even though she’d make less money than working at a hospital. And I am like really don’t like what I’m doing right now but the behind the scenes fundraising stuff is what would make me more money. And I’m just, I don’t know, I get scared that I’m going to go down the same path as my mom did.

THERAPIST: That’s an interesting dimension to think about. But we’re going to need to stop for today. I’m obviously we’re pretty obviously not here. Next Thursday’s Thanksgiving.

CLIENT: Oh, right, yeah.

THERAPIST: If you would like to try to find a time next week, another time, I’m happy to do so. Or not. Either way.

CLIENT: We’re leaving on Wednesday morning. So I’d really only have Monday or Tuesday.

THERAPIST: I do have I know I have a Tuesday in the early evening free if you’re interested in that.

CLIENT: Do you know what time? [00:49:05.11]

THERAPIST: I think it’s 5:10. I can double check. But I’m pretty sure it’s 5:10.

CLIENT: Oh, no, I can’t. I have a personal training appointment at 5:30 on Tuesday. So...

THERAPIST: Okay, so then I will see you...

CLIENT: Maybe we can just schedule unless you think that I’m going to freak out for two weeks. I think I’ll be fine.

THERAPIST: Okay, so then I will see you on the 5th is the next time.

CLIENT: Yeah. Hopefully I’ll have good news about my hopefully previously previous ulcer because I’ll have just had my endoscopy on the 3rd.

THERAPIST: Good luck with that.

CLIENT: Thanks, yeah.

THERAPIST: Take care. Have a good Thanksgiving.

CLIENT: Yeah, you too. Have a great holiday.

THERAPIST: Great. Bye.

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