TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.
(pause)
CLIENT: Hi.
THERAPIST: Hi.
CLIENT: Ugh. So...
THERAPIST: Do you want to start by talking about your e-mail, or...?
CLIENT: Yeah, sure! I just did a lot of thinking-and I have, I mean, it had nothing to do with last session, per se, necessarily, but just in general. [00:01:03]
I have a couple friends who deal with a lot of anxiety and OCD issues, as well, and do their own kinds of therapy and medications, but we bounce things off each other. A couple of them had been asking me, for a while now, "What kind of exercises do you do in therapy, outside of therapy?" and I had no idea what they were talking about.
They started telling me about cognitive behavioral therapy techniques and what-not. I just started doing some research, and I just think that-I don't know, it seemed like something I really wanted to try.
I did really give a preliminary thought process to the idea of medication. I had a couple of conversations about it with my mom, my brother, a couple of my friends, and I just feel like at this point in time, I want to feel like I have exhausted all options and that I've put my best effort forth before-that's a last resort, for me. [00:02:09]
As I've been learning about cognitive behavioral therapy and different-I don't know what else to call it, but exercises and what-not, I feel like that's something, Yeah, I want to feel like I'm working at something, do you know what I mean? It could absolutely have to do with my desire to just control everything all the time, including my brain, but I want to feel like I've at least tried that, first.
THERAPIST: Do the friends that you have, do they have someone that they use that they like?
CLIENT: Yeah, my coworker former coworker, I guess has someone that she's-I don't know who they are, she hasn't offered the information up so I don't want to push it by asking. I don't know if she feels uncomfortable, if we were to see the same person.
I looked up a couple people online that I was thinking about giving a call, but also did want to ask you if you knew anyone that you might want to refer me to. [00:03:06]
THERAPIST: Well, yeah, I had a couple thoughts about it.
First of all, I don't know what their-if they have a waitlist or whatever...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...the MSU Anxiety Clinic has a very, very good reputation.
CLIENT: I'm going to write these things down, [if you don't mind] (ph). Sorry.
THERAPIST: I would definitely contact them. Again, I don't know (crosstalk at 00:03:26)...
CLIENT: If they might have a...
THERAPIST: ...if they have a waiting list and so forth, but they have a very, very good reputation.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: That's what came to my mind when I first (inaudible at 00:03:37) e-mail (ph), but I have one colleague in particular who works with a lot of CBT and DBT therapists, so she is-
CLIENT: What is DBT?
THERAPIST: DBT is, it's dialectic [sic] behavioral therapy. That's really for people who are very self-injurious and they need specific skills to deal with the self-injurious behaviors that (inaudible at 00:04:01). It's related to CBT but it's not something that (crosstalk at 00:04:06)...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: ...appropriate for you, but anyway, but she would be a good person for me to contact...
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: ...because she probably would have-because she works with a lot of auxiliary (ph) providers. I will definitely reach out to her.
CLIENT: Thank you.
THERAPIST: But yeah, I would definitely recommend (crosstalk at 00:04:23).
CLIENT: I'll look into the MSU Anxiety Clinic.
THERAPIST: Yeah, and also...God... knowing which way to-I mean, with a lot of things with your ulcer, too anything, there are so many different ways to go. I would give it a try, if it's something that you feel could help. I would give it a try.
I will say that for-CBT for phobias is phenomenal. For social anxiety, it's quite good, and for OCD. For generalized anxiety, it's not...it's (inaudible at 00:05:03) why I didn't recommend it right off the bat.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: That's not to say that it couldn't be helpful.
CLIENT: Right. Yeah, I've been trying to do some reading and research it a little bit; haven't had the amount of time to read all the things I've bookmarked yet, because I started classes this week. Yeah, I don't know, I'm just looking.
I just am curious to look into-I just feel like when, I don't know, I want to feel like I feel-I think it would help me, maybe, to come into a situation where each session has a specific goal. Maybe not each session, but where I have (inaudible at 00:05:49), "Out of this exercise, this is what I'm looking to get," and then to feel like I'm being not (inaudible at 00:05:57) but-and I know there are just different kinds of therapy. In some of them you might not leave everyday feeling like, "I've accomplished something today." Maybe that's what I'm seeking a little bit.
This might not be the case. It could turn out that I give this a go and I'm in the same spot as I was before. Which is fine, but I just want to feel like I gave it a try, I think.
THERAPIST: The focus is very different. CBT is much, much more structured. The goal of CBT is really to manage symptoms.
THERAPIST: My approach, ultimately, is to help alleviate symptoms...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: ...but it's not so focused. It's much more look (ph) at the underlying meanings of the symptoms...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: ...in the hopes that the symptoms will subside, once what's behind them...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: ...is better understood. It's definitely a less-linear approach, for sure...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...and so, each approach has pros and cons.
CLIENT: Right, and I wonder if...yeah, I don't know.
I've never done it before and I've seen other therapists as well and it's never-and maybe that's why I've never done it, is because everyone I've seen is like, "That's not appropriate for," me, which might be the case, but... [00:07:13]
THERAPIST: I used to not think that CBT was so good for social anxiety...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: ...but then I worked with a couple of people who had other issues they wanted to talk about, but (inaudible at 00:07:23) CBT for the social anxiety, in particular, and found it very helpful, so...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: ...different people it's not only your symptom category, it's who you are and (crosstalk at 00:07:33).
CLIENT: Yeah, I know, absolutely.
Something that turned me onto it, as well: one of the people that I spoke to said that it's very much like you-that it's almost like there's a time limit. There's a certain amount of time and you go through the first session or whatever and you get a preliminary evaluation, and then the therapist says, "Well, okay, this is what I think I can do for you in x-amount of sessions."
Then you have an endpoint to work towards which, I don't know, could be a bad thing or it could be a good thing, I'm not sure. [00:08:09] I don't know, I'm just curious, because I haven't done anything like it before.
THERAPIST: I will say CBT therapists seem more likely to want people to go on medication, because the research is such that it tends to much more effective with medication. I don't know if all CBT therapists will recommend that, but that's definitely what they research, that (inaudible at 00:08:32) combined is a much more effective...that doesn't mean you have to do it...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: ...I'm just warning you that that seems to be more their focus. They're also focused on how quickly can you alleviate symptoms?
CLIENT: Right. Yeah, no, I understand that.
THERAPIST: That doesn't mean that you have to go along with all the recommendations.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, I think I just at least want to give it a...try, or at least see what happens, get evaluated by someone who-that's what they do, and see what they think. [00:09:03]
I don't know. I feel like maybe there's been-I don't know. I'm sure that this is probably part of the process or what-not, but a lot of times, I feel when I sit and I just talk, it makes me more anxious, when I try to process through, without sort of an, "Okay, well, what's going on?" and how can I maybe train myself or identify how I'm distorting my thoughts a little bit and if there's anything I can try to do or some sort of exercise when I'm having these anxious spells to try-yeah, it is alleviate the symptoms.
I feel a lot of times, when I'm just sitting and talking about it and trying to find something to talk about or find the last thing that I was anxious about, I end up getting more anxious than when I came in. [00:10:08]
I think that's where I was turned on by what I've heard about CBT, because I think that that would give me the-in my head, when I think about it, ideally, that would give me the element of, "Okay, well, I can say, 'Well, this made me anxious,'" but then in the same conversation, we could say, "Okay, well, let's look at exactly why."
Maybe this isn't what CBT is, after all. This is what I'm selectively hearing from my friends' descriptions of it, but [where then] (ph) we could say, "Okay, well, this is what's happening that's making you feel anxious, and this is how we can start working towards you not getting to that point," or something like that, "Through X, Y, Z exercises, you should be able to prevent yourself from feeling like that."
When I've heard about CBT, that's what I hear. I don't know if that is what actually happens or what would happen with me; maybe it happens with other people. [00:11:04] If I could create my own, I guess ideal sort of the therapy, that's what it would be.
That might be completely unrealistic for the kind of anxiety that I have.
THERAPIST: I can't say, "Absolutely no," or, "Absolutely yes," I think.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: I would the say the one thing that would be important is-from my vantage point, on a very basic level, you'll feel better if you're able to let go a little bit. Whatever you use to hold on more tightly is not going to be to your advantage, but if you're able to use it to help you let go a little bit...of course, letting go, it sounds so simple...
CLIENT: Yeah, (inaudible at 00:11:51).
THERAPIST: ...but it's very complicated. That would be my-
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: To use CBT to get greater control over things, in some ways, feeds the problem. [00:12:02]
CLIENT: Right, and I guess that's not-that's how, I guess, the easier way to describe it, but that is my goal, is to be able to let it go and to just relax. That's what I wish I could just do, all the time, is just relax, because everything's going to be fine. That's what I would want to use it for, is to be able-and I don't know if that's what would happen or not.
I guess I use the word "control" because I had talked with my friend about using these exercises to kind of train your brain to react in a different way. When I used that language to describe it, it sounds like control, but it's more that I want to be able to identify exactly what's making me hold on so tight and then figure out a way to let go.
That's my ultimate goal, throughout whatever therapy I'm in.
THERAPIST: I would also say that, just some people respond to more-structured environments better. [00:13:04]
CLIENT: I do. Yeah, I do. Even this week, being back in school and there's-I'm really busy, I have a shit-ton of work and it's great. I feel so much better already this week than I have in the last three months, now that I have to be here at this time, here at this time, I'm running around doing different things, I have assignments I have to get done, people I have to go see.
It's funny, because it's been a nightmare of a week, logistically-speaking, because I've been having a lot of issues with my specific degree track and the classes that are open to me, and I'm (inaudible at 00:13:49) feeling very misled by the degree that I thought I was going into and what-not.
I was supposed to be getting a dual degree. [00:14:01] I When I was applying for Masters programs, I knew that if I went just for a standalone, higher degree, there's really only one track after that. You can get your Ph. D. and then you go straight into academia and you teach.
That's definitely something I'm interested in in the future, but I also really feel strongly about working more in the field with NGOs or the government or something, doing some sort of development work and if you already (ph) get your Master's degree, then the only-really, across the board at schools all over the country, there's no-you can specialize and get a certificate, but Wellesley offered this great-looking program that had a dual Master's degree.
I was like, "That's perfect for me. I'll have the higher degree for when I want to teach, and I'll have the higher degree for the meantime." [00:15:01]
As it turns out, after I got to Wellesley, I realized they don't actually have a this department. It's a program, so they don't have any faculty members that are faculty. They're anthropologists, sociologists, English whatever, and they teach (inaudible at 00:15:18) classes.
I feel really lucky that I had a great undergraduate education, but the courses that I would have been able to take as a graduate student at Wellesley were mixed with undergrads, in that they weren't graduate courses. You wrote an extra paper and met one extra hour every other week, and that counted as a graduate credit, and that wasn't really the education that I was paying to get. That's when I ended up-
THERAPIST: That's sort of redundant.
CLIENT: Exactly. I already have my Bachelor's degree. That's when I made the switch to this specialization. [00:16:00]
But because I didn't make the switch until the end of last year, because they only just rolled out this specific track in response to the critiques about the dual degree, I had already taken the courses that had to do with one within my school.
Those are the courses that you would then take for the specialization, but I had already taken them. Then they gave me this list of other courses outside of my graduate school still within Wellesley that I could take to count towards the specialization.
They're listed as graduate courses, but as I found out going to them this week, they're undergraduate courses that you can get a graduate credit for. I've basically been to 12 extra classes this week, trying to figure out what-long story short, it's been a very, it should be a very stressful week, but I don't feel stressed or anxious, just having...anyway, moral of the story is...
THERAPIST: And you have a goal. [00:17:00]
CLIENT: ...I do better in structured environments, yeah.
THERAPIST: But you have a goal, too. You're trying to do something very specific. It's not like you're just meandering about.
CLIENT: Right, right. Yeah, I've never done well when I have all this extra time on my hands, or when I'm just sitting around. I'm really bad at vacations. I can relax for a day or two, but then-and Amelia's the same way, which is great. We do well traveling together, because our ideal vacation is going to a new place and doing stuff and exploring and seeing things. I'm not good at sitting on a beach for a week with nothing to do. I get really antsy quickly.
I do think that's another thing that attracted me to it, is the structure. Saying, "We have a goal and we're going to accomplish it in an x-amount of sessions."
THERAPIST: I'm sure I can find you at least one or two names. [00:18:00] Recommendations are always the best thing. I understand some people don't really feel comfortable asking their friends or whatever for therapists, but if your friends have a good experience, it's always a really good way to start, too.
CLIENT: Yeah. No, I might definitely ask Danielle. I know that we have-and just because she has a different...she's on a lot of medication, but they also arrived at that point after CBT didn't work on its own for her. She arrived at that conclusion on her own, but doing CBT for a while and then saying, "You know, this is-I'm not, I'm still feeling really anxious and my OCD is out of control so, okay, yeah, now I can go on medication," but I could ask her. I think it's someone local.
Yeah, if you have some names as well, just let me know.
THERAPIST: Absolutely. One colleague, in particular, I'm pretty sure she'll have a few good referrals. I hope to hear back. I'll definitely send it out today and hope to hear from her in a couple of days.
CLIENT: Yeah, just let me know. [00:19:00] I'm not in an incredible rush.
THERAPIST: How are you and Amelia doing?
CLIENT: She's supportive of me wanting to try this. Yeah, we've just been doing really well. This is both of our first weeks back, so it's been nice. We've both been home a lot more. It's been fun, going to the gym together and doing more stuff together than when she has night classes.
This semester, I think, is going to be a lot less involved for her-not less involved, but her internship is; now she's at Providence Children's Hospital this semester, doing inpatient stuff with the kids there. Because she sees new people every day, it's not like when she was at a school, where she would have to be up until 1:00 in the morning making her lesson plans for the next day. When she's home, she's home. [00:20:00]
Of course, now I'm the one that's-it's switched a little bit. Last night, she came home and I was just swamped with work. It was nice, she made dinner. It showed me a little bit that my fears about the way things were last semester were that they weren't ever going to change, (inaudible at 00:20:18) just it wasn't circumstantial. I'm starting to think that it was.
It's give and take with us. I'm a little bit more busy then she'll make dinner and clean up and I can get my work done, so that's nice. Things are good. We're both happy. There was a lot of pressure last semester, I think, of figuring out-all of our friends are getting married and engaged, but they're all a couple years ahead, just as far as where they are in their careers, because we took two-and-a-half years (inaudible at 00:20:57) Egypt, we're still in school and we're 28, instead of having our other friends that have been working now for 4 years. [00:21:05]
There's a lot of, "Hey, we're ready, when are we going to get engaged?" We're trying really hard to save up money. I did a good job saving up a lot of money the last couple months, while I was working, but I think now, seeing that money in my bank account and realizing that, "Okay, we're coming into a summer where I might potentially be unemployed for a couple months," this is a big transition period, I think we both feel like, "Okay, we don't need to rush anything." There's no point in spending $5,000 on a ring right now if we're going to need rent money for five months before I get a job.
I think everything's just good and calm we're just both excited to finish our degrees. We talked about cities, because I have to start applying to jobs now. [00:22:03] She doesn't really until the summer, since she goes until August, but [it helps that we] (ph) had that conversation of, "Are we going to stay? What cities are we open to moving to? What would be a good enough job to make us move?"
It's exciting. As much as change is stressful and difficult, it's also exciting thinking that anything could be next. Who knows, I could get a great job offer-I could be unemployed for a year, or get a great job offer in Portland, we could be moving across the country in August. You never know. It's exciting.
We're good.
THERAPIST: You feel in a better place than when the two of you came together?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay. It's good.
CLIENT: Yeah. I think me coming here helped a lot. I think having a space where I could-I feel like I, instead of unleashing everything on Amelia all the time, I definitely saved it up and talked about it here. [00:23:09] I think that's important for me. Whether or not CBT helps or it doesn't help, I realize that therapy is probably an important part of my life right now, that it's important for me to have a space that's not my relationship.
It's not that I don't have friends that I can talk to about these issues, but I'm not going to call them up every week or every day. I think it was important for our relationship, for me to have my own space to talk about what was making me anxious and why and not inundate her with all of that, as well. I think she feels like it's less of her responsibility.
I was able to go out. [00:24:00] I had my last afternoon out on the (inaudible at 00:24:02) yesterday. We went out. I sat and watched them drink and had some waters, but it took me out for my last day to a local bar. Amelia wasn't there and I feel like a couple months ago, I would have been not able to enjoy myself with other people, because I'm wondering, "What's Amelia doing? Is she all right?" and constantly checking my phone.
We were out for four hours; I didn't even notice the time. I didn't think about-it was nice. I felt like I hadn't been able to enjoy myself like that, without Amelia around, in a long time. I don't know that has to-I don't know what-
THERAPIST: What changed?
CLIENT: What changed, or if it's just been a slow process of me having this space to talk about everything once a week? Or if really coming back to school this week was a big shift for me, in a good way. [00:25:02] I'm (ph) feeling like I have things that I need to get accomplished.
It makes me feel useful, not just like I'm bopping around from job to job, doing mundane tasks for eight hours a day.
I think Amelia and I are in a better place, for sure. When we came here, as well, in September, my anxiety was getting the way so much that we couldn't even distinguish whether it was us as a couple that was having issues or whether I just needed a place-you know what I mean? It was like, "Well, maybe we need to go." We didn't know. But yeah, [I'd say we] (ph) definitely, definitely doing better.
THERAPIST: You learned things about your family. You'd asked your dad, you (crosstalk at 00:25:58)...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...about his history with anxiety or his history of treatment of anxiety.
CLIENT: Yeah. I always knew that it was there in the family, but I never knew the details, because we just didn't talk about it. Definitely. I'm glad that I asked, because I opened up some channels. Now, if I'm having a really tough day, I can call my dad.
THERAPIST: Have you done that recently?
CLIENT: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, there's something else I'm freaking out about, I can't remember what it was.
We joke about it and it makes me feel better. We'll be sarcastic with each other about it. Oh, yeah, when we were flying out to Oregon and our flight got cancelled. Then I was trying to get us on another flight, but there was a-our flight got cancelled because there was a snowstorm here, and we were flying out the next morning. They put us on another flight that was only an hour or two after our original flight. I was not sure if we had a snowstorm and then everything got delayed, I didn't think that that was enough time for the impact of the snowstorm on the airport to clear out. [00:27:05]
I figured that we were going to end up missing our connection, anyway, because that flight might be cancelled. I call my dad, "Well, you know, we're on this flight but I really think we should have waited another day because there's no way we're going to get out of here and then we're going to get stuck in."
He's like, "You know what? I know the world's going to end. If you're stuck in Nashville, then that's it! You're never coming home." We go back and forth with banter, really outrageous things that-and it helps. When we're saying those things to each other, things that are so outrageous it reminds me that, "All right. So what, we get stuck in Nashville. We get a hotel in Nashville. I've never been to Nashville." It's thinking of things that are so outrageous, it reminds me of the fact that I'm being a little bit irrational. Making me laugh also makes me let go, a little bit. [00:28:00]
That's been a cool thing.
THERAPIST: It sounds pretty cool.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I don't know. He hasn't called me when he's feeling exceptionally anxious. Sometimes, I'm on the phone with my mom and I can hear him yelling about something in the background and saying, "I'm just going to go work out," which is what he does when he gets anxious.
Mom will put me on speaker and I'll say something and make him laugh, and then he'll stay and talk for a little bit. I think it might be kind of nice that this kind of channel of communication is opening up for us.
THERAPIST: That's pretty cool.
CLIENT: Yeah. I feel like I've gotten...I think a lot has happened since I started coming here, for sure. I'm sure that if a lot would continue to happen, I think I'm just letting my curiosity about this other kind of therapy; I just really want to give it a go. [00:29:10]
THERAPIST: Well, I really hope it works for you, and you could always feel free to come back or...
CLIENT: Thank you, yeah. I was going to ask if...
THERAPIST: Of course.
CLIENT: ...a couple months and this is not doing it for me, if I could give you a call.
THERAPIST: Absolutely, of course, of course. I want you to feel better.
CLIENT: Yeah!
THERAPIST: My goal is not for you (crosstalk at 00:29:28)...
CLIENT: We have the same goal, yeah.
THERAPIST: ...treatment with me, per se, although I like working with you. If you find that a more sort of structured treatment that's more focused on your symptoms is helping you, great.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I'm happy to do that.
CLIENT: If that's the case, I'll let you know I mean, I'll let you know either way.
THERAPIST: Sure. Yeah, no, I'd absolutely like to know, hear how you're progressing and hear if that...
I'm certainly I mean, really no one is not one-size-fits-all, but sort of a master of everything. [00:30:02] I do one thing well, but I don't do everything well, by any means.
CLIENT: Yep! Absolutely, absolutely. I don't know, I almost think that this was-I don't think I would have come to the conclusion about CBT. I think that this was still necessary. I don't think it was-it's funny, because I'm so obsessing controlling everything, but I also believe-I'm a very fortuitous (ph) person and I believe that everything happens for a reason not kind of, I really firmly believe that. As much as I want to be able to control everything that happens, I still think that one thing leads to another, and that's just how my life has-a lot of bigger things in my life have turned out.
I can look at Egypt as a completely traumatizing experience, but at the same time, had I not gone to Egypt, I wouldn't have met the love of my life and not ended up in this grad program. I think that some of the things that-I don't know, I feel like this was-I needed this, still. [00:31:04] I needed a space so-really, it helped me figure out that I have more of an issue than I thought, in the beginning, and there are more ways that this influences my daily life than I would have realized.
That also made me want to then be like, "Okay, well, (inaudible at 00:31:28), I want to really work at this now and be in the more structured environment." I don't know, I think of it as exercising my brain kind of thing, I'm ready to work it out. Give it a go and try-I want to feel like I'm really trying in working at something.
THERAPIST: It's definitely a paradigm that you can relate to.
CLIENT: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.
THERAPIST: In a sense, for you.
CLIENT: I don't know, maybe you're just catching me on a good day, but I just had a very positive appointment with my GI. [00:32:03]
THERAPIST: Oh, wait, I was going to ask you how that's going. That's great.
CLIENT: Yeah, and I'm going to try tapering the medicine (ph) down, because I've been asymptomatic for a while.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: That's exciting, too. Things are healing.
THERAPIST: That's great.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, and I feel good about. It feels nice, because now it's up to me and it's all about how I feel. If I feel okay, then I can which I do we can try, see what happens if I don't take the medicine for a day.
It's not like they're telling me, "This is wrong with you, so you have to take this," so I feel less stressed about it, which I know will make my stomach feel better, also.
(pause)
THERAPIST: That's great. [00:33:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. Of course, I'm nervous, because tomorrow I'm not going to take it. I'm still terrified that I'm going to feel sick, but hopefully I won't. I don't think I will. I haven't really felt sick in a month or two, now. If I feel sick, then I just take the medicine and then I feel better.
THERAPIST: I was thinking about what your dad would say about, "I don't know, I guess you'll die, then."
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Exactly, exactly.
This week has been-I had a sinus thing going on for maybe a week-and-a-half. I went to the doctor over the weekend, and they're like, "We can't ever tell someone whether they have a sinus infection or not without doing a CT scan, so I'm just going to give you antibiotics and you're just going to take them, because if it's an infection, then you'll feel better. If it's not, then the medicine won't hurt you."
I had to let that go, because I have to take this medicine, antibiotics, three times a day. [00:34:06] It's not like I can just push through, take my one pill in the morning, and then it's constantly confronting me, this medication that I have to take.
The first two days, I was completely obsessed with making sure that I-measuring out my time, because I also need to take it with meals. You're supposed to wait eight hours between each does, but you don't wait eight hours between each meal. I was staying up really late so I could take it at a certain time, and then I had to just let it go, because I needed to start going to school and my schedule was different.
THERAPIST: And sleep, (crosstalk at 00:34:46) eight hours.
CLIENT: And I had to sleep, yeah. I had to just let it go and I don't know if having to take this medicine helped a little bit.
THERAPIST: And then eating a late meal would interfere with your probably GI approach. [laughs] [00:35:01]
CLIENT: Yeah. It didn't work the first day, when I waited until midnight to take the medicine, because I have to take my stomach medicine a half-an-hour before I have my first meal. If I'm not hungry in the morning, then when I wake up, then it's really difficult to do that. I needed to take the antibiotics with the first meal, it was just (inaudible at 00:35:22), so it didn't work.
I needed to just let it go and just take the medicine. I feel (ph) so much better two days after taking the antibiotics. Clearly, I had a sinus infection, because it was-I was clear as day, all of the sudden, for the first time in two weeks. It forced me to let it go, a little bit, which was nice.
THERAPIST: I would think so.
CLIENT: Yeah. I was thinking, on my way home from the doctor appointment this morning about, I've been taking the stomach medicine for four months, now. [00:36:00] I don't think about it anymore. It's just part of my routine and doesn't really bother me (inaudible at 00:36:11), I don't know.
If only I could get to this point without having the two days about freaking out about amoxicillin, which is baby antibiotics. I took that when I was in elementary school and had strep throat. It doesn't do anything to you. [laughs]
But yeah, I mean, good days and bad days. This is a good week, I guess.
THERAPIST: Yeah. It does seem like there's an upward trend.
CLIENT: When I look back, when the first time Amelia and I came here, it was-I'm in a very-I feel much better, now, than I did then. [00:37:01] Still feel anxious, but I feel much, much better.
THERAPIST: Well, that's really cool.
CLIENT: Yeah! It's nice to think about it. When I look back...that makes me feel like I did work at something and did work my brain out, a little bit, so we'll see. I'm excited to see what CBT is and what it could do for me or couldn't, and then just see how it goes.
I don't know, I don't think that I'll get to...or maybe I would, but I feel like having some sort of therapy is something that I'm going to be having for a while, I think. [00:38:03] It's been a part of my life for a long time, and it's always helped, it's never hurt. My mom still sees her therapist. I don't think that I'll go through CBT and be cured, but I just wonder if it would be some good tools to have in my box.
THERAPIST: Well, I guess I would definitely like to hear how that's going...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...when you find someone and start.
CLIENT: Yeah, absolutely. I'll keep you posted, and if it doesn't work out, then...or if I feel like this was a much better fit for me, then I'll definitely let you know, as well.
I do really appreciate it, especially with the-I appreciate your wanting to work with graduate students and the money thing. That was a big thing keeping me from finding a good therapist, for a while. [00:39:01] I tried really hard to make it work with the people at Wellesley, because it was free, and they were just...yeah, it was not (ph)...this woman wanted to-not like electroshock therapy, but she called it something else, and then when I explained it to Amelia, she's like, "That's basically electroshock therapy."
THERAPIST: EMDR?
CLIENT: I don't know, she said it was manually controlling my brainwaves.
THERAPIST: Well, electroshock therapy, you go to the hospital and get.
CLIENT: Right, (crosstalk at 00:39:32).
THERAPIST: It definitely would not be electroshock therapy.
CLIENT: Not the same as, but Amelia said it was like that. I mean, it didn't sound appealing even when this woman described it to me with nicer words.
THERAPIST: I'm guessing it was EMDR. I don't know that would be the only-it's a rapid eye movement, where you-do you remember if that's what she was describing?
CLIENT: The only thing she said was that we couldn't do it at her office in Wellesley, that I had to go to her office at a different location, because of the equipment she needed. [00:40:00]
THERAPIST: Yeah, they do use equipment for EMDR. People use it for trauma. Is that what she was thinking about?
CLIENT: I don't think so. We were just talking about my anxiety. I only gave it a go for three sessions, because she was really pushing me seeing her off-campus and using this equipment. I didn't know what she was talking about.
She seemed to really focus on, I forget what it was, but it was one thing that I mentioned once that she just harped on, that wasn't something that was recurring in my anxiety and I just didn't...
She also just stopped e-mailing me to schedule sessions, but I think that that's why I didn't want to see her off-campus.
THERAPIST: I have no idea. The other thing I could think about was neurofeedback.
CLIENT: That's what it was.
THERAPIST: Oh, it as neurofeedback. I don't know much about neurofeedback, yeah. You wouldn't be shocked, though. [laughs]
CLIENT: No, I didn't think I was going to be shocked, but yeah. She said she would hook me and then she could make-I would start having anxious thoughts and then she would manually change the structure of my brainwaves or something to make me feel less anxious. [00:41:11] Her description freaked me out, of it, it wasn't something I'd be interested in.
Finding a place I could come and afford was really important to me, so I do appreciate that.
THERAPIST: That's important, because you have a PPO. I think that that's correct.
CLIENT: Yeah, so that was the other thing is I was going to try to find someone in my network.
THERAPIST: The in-network PPO plan is much wider than HMO plan...
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: ...so I can certainly do that. Not everybody, but there are people like me who are also willing to sort of adjust their fee for grad students. I'll make sure to keep that in mind, that that's an important thing to think about.
CLIENT: Thanks, thank you, yeah. Whoever I talk to, before I set up an appointment, I'll let them know about that, as well. [00:42:05]
Speaking of, I still haven't gotten the health insurance check, the one that I mailed them the-it's from November, so I'm waiting for that.
THERAPIST: That's okay.
CLIENT: I know it takes a while.
THERAPIST: They usually take a month, and now they've been taking more. Did you get the December one?
CLIENT: Yeah, I mailed it out to them.
THERAPIST: Okay. That's fine, you can just mail it to me when (crosstalk at 0 0:42:25).
CLIENT: Yeah, I'll mail both of those to you. I could write you a check right now for...
THERAPIST: For December and I guess (crosstalk at 00:42:32).
CLIENT: No, for January, because it's been today-or should I just wait? I'll just wait for Irra (sp?) to send me the statement, I guess.
THERAPIST: The check you gave me was for November.
CLIENT: It was for November and December.
THERAPIST: And December, okay, it was for both.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay, so it's for both. Okay, that's fine. You can just wait. You don't need to (crosstalk at 00:42:48).
CLIENT: Okay, so I have my checkbook if it would make it easier.
THERAPIST: It's up to you. I don't care either way.
CLIENT: I'll just write you a check, now.
THERAPIST: Okay. You meant the two times in...?
CLIENT: Yeah, in January.
THERAPIST: That will be fine, okay. [00:43:01]
CLIENT: Yeah, I'll just do that now.
THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess we have just a minute or so-okay, that's fine. I will make note of this. I would say early next week I'll have some names for you that...
CLIENT: Yeah, that would be great. I appreciate it. I would definitely trust your recommendation more than my own Googling.
Today's the 16th, right?
THERAPIST: Yes.
(pause)
CLIENT: You said it was two sessions?
THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess so! The (crosstalk at 00:43:45).
CLIENT: Yeah, because I came back from Oregon...
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Yeah, we didn't meet on (inaudible at 00:43:51) because of the snowstorm [that was] (ph)...
THERAPIST: The snowstorm.
CLIENT: ...after New Year's, right.
(pause)
[00:44:00]
(pause)
THERAPIST: Thank you.
CLIENT: Thank you.
THERAPIST: I will be in touch within the week...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...and please stay in touch.
CLIENT: Absolutely.
THERAPIST: (crosstalk at 00:44:51)
CLIENT: Thanks for everything.
THERAPIST: (crosstalk at 00:44:51) for you.
CLIENT: All right.
THERAPIST: I'll (inaudible at 00:44:52) to you soon. Take care, Kelsey.
CLIENT: You, too.
END TRANSCRIPT
