TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: It's good to be back. It's been a long time.

THERAPIST: Yes it has.

CLIENT: And so, let's see. I went to Aspen (ph) and it was all right but a lot of things sort of happened and for better or for worse. I don't ski so most of the time, I mean, I was there just doing work, which is fine but, you know, slightly annoying when people are like, "Oh, come out to the village." Because I was there with Jeremy and his family. And the mom's like, "Oh, why don't you go see the village?" And I was like, "Well…" I mean, I don't know. I mean, guess technically it was vacation but…

THERAPIST: It didn't feel like it to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I had to do work and, you know, I was fine with other people going out skiing. I mean, I was mostly there to be with Jeremy and, you know, plus I'm excited to do my work. But my dad came to stay for two days and also go skiing because he's really big into skiing. And one of the things that really came up is I guess I mean, I talked to my mom later about this, but my dad was drinking quite a bit. And he does this any time he's in a party situation. When I say drink quite a bit, we're talking about (inaudible at 01:34) ten drinks. (phone sounds)

THERAPIST: I'm sorry. Let me just make sure. (pause) OK, fine. [Not if] (ph) the primary caretaker is not home. (laughter)

CLIENT: But, yeah, so he was having, like, upward of ten, 12 drinks.

THERAPIST: That is a lot.

CLIENT: I know and, you know, I could like, my mom said on this last new year's, like, he had to have his male friend help him into the car so my mom could drive home, that he had drunken that much. I mean, you know, my dad, he was in the military. He's used to drinking like a sailor. And I guess normally at home he doesn't drink that much. But, I mean, Jeremy said the next morning he was shaking right before he started skiing, indicative of, like, drinking too much and the body's blood sugar dropping too low after processing all the alcohol. You know, and so I sort of saw, like, my dad he was a little bit out of place because the Jennings don't drink quite so much.

And, you know, I got to be at one of the last nights there when everyone was there. Jeremy, me and his mom stayed an extra night. But my dad got belligerently drunk and was, like, saying stuff about the mom. Like, "Oh, just don't leave me alone with Kitty. I can't stand her." And it's like, you know, you're a guest and the house is pretty open and, I mean, while everyone and Jeremy, obviously, he got pissed off when my dad like, it was, like, 11 o'clock at night. His brothers and wife are asleep, his mom's downstairs and here my dad he's like, (inaudible at 03:43).

And so he's talking to us and, like, you know, he wants to have conversation but he's talking a little bit louder and Jeremy's getting frustrated because, I mean, he had broken a rib that day. So he was just sort of, like, not in the mood to be staying up late and having…

THERAPIST: Right. And your dad's not catching the clues.

CLIENT: Yeah. So finally my dad he, like, goes downstairs and I was like, "Oh, I better watch over him, making sure he's drinking water." And, you know, that's when he's, like, breaking, like he had, like, a major couple of breakdowns that night. Like, he was crying. Like (inaudible at 04:26) all this stuff, saying how, like, my sister, she's so selfish, how could I raise a child like this?

THERAPIST: Puts you in a really hard place.

CLIENT: Yeah, because he was crying, he was emotional and he was also, like Jeremy's mom was in the other we're downstairs and the mom was staying in a room downstairs also. And so she's talking to I believe her boyfriend but, still, my dad's talking what Jeremy said to be screaming. But it was, I mean, it was kind of just, like, loud talking, loud. Jeremy has very sensitive ears. And so, I mean, Jeremy, I asked him. I was like, "Well, why if we were talking so loud, why didn't you come down?" And he was like, "Well, I really just wanted to tell you guys to shut the F up." But he was like, "I just thought it would be the mature thing to just be foul up in the room." And I was, like, really upset because it's, like, you know, my dad, I'm worried about him because he's drinking quite a bit.

And, like, he does this sort of thing, like, he'll pour himself a glass of alcohol, drink it really quick and then pour himself another glass and then come out. And, like, sometimes he would go up to his room and, like, bring up a beer and it's, like, it's frustrating because, like, (pause) I mean, I would like to say something. Like, I tried to say, "OK, why don't you drink water instead?" And then he would pour himself some alcohol. And it'd be just like, this isn't cute. This is kind of, you know, this is bad. [00:06:11]

And so I was really upset. I called up my mom. Of course it's hard when you're in close quarters with everyone. And Jeremy had this impression I was talking to my mom on speakerphone but it was really just he has rabbit ear hearing. And, you know, she said, "Oh, you know, he was just not around your dad much." But, you know, I really…

THERAPIST: But you know this is not typical behavior for someone.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, it was just you know, so I want to say something but also I don't really know what. I mean, because some people like, if I tell my mom, you know, "Smoking's bad for you. You shouldn't do it," she'll probably smoke two packs a day instead of, like, you know, because she was sort of, like, challenge. Like, "Oh, I'm going to spite you." But with my dad, I mean, you know, one of the things he was crying over and, like, when he started going to the drinking is when I mean, first it was when work kept demoting him but, more significantly, things changed when his dad was diagnosed with diabetes, wasn't taking care of himself and died. And my dad felt very guilty that he didn't call up my dad or his dad for Christmas that year. [00:07:33]

THERAPIST: When was that?

CLIENT: That was I think two and a half years ago now. And now they think my dad was talking about, which I didn't like so much, was there a time when he was growing mushrooms at home. And he was, like, telling who is it it's Christina, Ozzie's (sp?) wife, Jeremy's sister-in-law's brother that was also there, about the mushrooms and telling Ozzie (sp?) that, like, "Oh, my wife, is such a nag about it. She didn't like when I got high on the mushrooms, but I didn't see what her problem was." I mean, and finally Jeremy was like, "You know, I think relationships are more important." And he said, "Well, yeah. But…" I mean, it's sort of interesting because, like, on one side was this person that was, like, the caretaker, you know, while he was crying the other night about, like, you know, "I was so scared. I wouldn't be able to take care of you guys." And he was crying like a he was very, like, sad that he wouldn't be able to provide but he did. He made it through. In the other sense, then he was this guy that was getting belligerently drunk and, you know, talking about mushrooms. [00:09:00]

And it was like it's very frustrating because I sort of see that maybe I'm going to you know, you can't pick your parents. You're kind of born into them. But it was just sort of like, I don't want this to reflect upon me. So I feel guilty that I was, you know, didn't want it to reflect upon me, but I also felt sad for my dad because, like, he just wasn't getting it. You know, doing these sorts of things is not always the cool thing to do. Sometimes being cool is just, you know, having a glass of wine and, you know, talking about, you know, something intellectual, other than growing mushrooms.

THERAPIST: Maybe you felt embarrassed because he wasn't acting in a socially appropriate way. He wasn't acting like a grown-up.

CLIENT: Yeah. And, you know, it's but also, I mean, I love my dad and then I feel angry that (ph) people that don't understand or accept him. So it was sort of like a double-edged sword sort of. [00:10:11]

THERAPIST: Yeah, you're in a really difficult position. You have such conflicted feelings. Of course you love him and you want him to be healthy and happy, so it hurts to see that he's clearly not (inaudible at 10:22).

CLIENT: Yeah. So that happened and I'm still trying to figure out, like, whether I should write him a card and just that, you know, "I love you and I want to thank you for being such a good provider, but I'm also worried about you and that, you know, drinking is something that all adults do but I'm just really (ph) worried about the side effects of drinking more than six drinks a night. I would just hate to see you, you know, destroy yourself like you saw your own dad destroy himself with diabetes." I keep on sort of, like, talking it over my head, what I would say to him and then I just sort of, like, sort of I don't know. I sort of chicken out because I don't know. Like, I don't want him to be mad with me. Like, I don't want to start, like, a war. I don't no one likes to be told they're doing something wrong. [00:11:24]

THERAPIST: But what you just expressed was beautiful because what you expressed was your concern. I mean, I didn't hear you say, "What you're doing is wrong." I heard what you said was, "I love you and I'm concerned and I don't want to see you endanger your health by drinking this amount." That's a really caring message. And I don't know how he'll hear it but the way that you phrased it was as gentle and non-confrontational as possible. I mean, you expressed that you're worried about him. And it sounds like you have some valid reasons to be concerned.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I was just I remember that last night in Aspen (ph) and, like, after realizing that he drink, like, a whole bottle of wine on top of when we went bowling too he was buying drinks for like, everyone bought a drink and then he decided to buy three more cocktails because I guess, you know, when he goes golfing he can out drink his friends, like, meaning, like. But no one else was drinking those three cocktails that he bought for everyone. And so then he started drinking them and then I was, like, so frustrated because it's like, "You don't need to be drinking more." You know, and that yeah, I mean, I sort of saw that I was like, "First" I sort of saw, like, "Wow, this guy could really benefit from therapy." (laughter) And then I also saw that I was like, you know, I'm afraid. I stayed up half the night watching him. Like, every time he coughed I went up to check on him because I was really worried. I don't know why I was really worried this time. I guess normally when I'm at home…

THERAPIST: And your mom is there. Some of the responsibility for taking care of him falls on her. But it sounds like this situation where you were the only blood relative, you felt the responsibility of making sure he was OK fell to you.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I guess I sort of I mean, my mom has sort of a nonchalance about sort of these things. I guess because she's used to them. Like, you know, she's used to sort of my dad getting a little belligerent when he's in these situations and sometimes peeing on cop cars. It's just so crazy. And then the other thing, I told my mom that I decided that I wanted to stay another year so that I could really work on my PhD and I got really upset when I I guess she was just kind of tired when I told her this because it was on the phone while I was in Aspen (ph). She was like, "Oh" she's like, "When are you going to find out when you're going to graduate?" And I was like, "Well, my advisor and I kind of" actually, my advisor didn't even tell me. I just sort of was like, I realize that, you know what, I'm sort of at the point where I can really contribute (ph) to the science world before I say good bye. And, you know, it's not like I'm prolonging getting a job it's just I don't want to do a crappy PhD. I've spent a lot of time and I might as well do something good with my life or with that portion of my life. And, you know, I'm really excited. I have a new project and I just sort of kind of obsess about the new project and it's really inspiring. And, like, I've been doing really good work on it.

THERAPIST: That's marvelous (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah, but my mom, she was just like, "Oh, well you better keep on working and work, work, work." And then later my dad, that night, was just like, "You know" I was like, "You know, mom seemed really kind of upset." He's like, "Well, you know, all I can say is just finish. Just finish." I was like, "Well, it's not like I'm not going to finish." I was like, "What's all this sort of like, ‘Oh, Janet's never going to get a job or she's just going to be in school.' I want to finish but I don't want to finish badly. And, you know, I want to finish at the right time. I'm not trying to be a perfectionist but, really, the average time period of a PhD student is, like, five to six years. I'm at year five." And so I just really got upset because it's, like, my parents don't really understand and like… [00:15:52]

THERAPIST: This isn't a process they've been through.

CLIENT: I know and it's frustrating because, like, my sister, on one hand, she's been out of pharmacy school for two years now and hasn't gotten a job because she's had injuries. And it's really frustrating talking to her because I sort of see that, you know, she faces a lot of financial danger because her loans are due and she doesn't have a job. And she wants another surgery. So I can see where, you know, her getting a job would be really important because if you've done nothing really after you've graduated besides, like, you know, catch up on your intern hours and take a test, you know, I can understand their concern. But it's like, there's no reason for concern here guys. How about and then eventually my dad's like, "Well, I'm proud of you." And it's like, "Well, didn't you just say in sort of, like, a nonchalant way, ‘Just finish. That's all we want. When I was 21 I was married with a child'?" And I was like, well, I'm sorry. This is just not, you know. I was like, it's just different when you're an academia. And even in, like, there's cultural differences. On the East Coast people just tend to get married later, at least in this area. I mean, maybe that's because everyone's a graduate. But, you know, it's just like, I'm not screwing around with my life. I'm really working hard, at least now. I mean… [00:17:34]

THERAPIST: It's a very different path than what they followed.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so, you know, my mom, I guess she wants grandchildren. And, I mean, my sister's been married for five, six years. And, I mean, I guess you know, I was explaining later to Jeremy's mom and I actually made it very clear why my mom is sort of because Jeremy, when we moved in, said that, "Oh, I didn't want to get engaged yet because I know she's busy with school and, you know. But when she graduates next May I'll definitely, you know, as the time comes around, you know, the time's ripe." So my mom had it (inaudible at 18:19) that within one year Jeremy had to make a decision and that was based upon me graduating. So now she thinks that by the end of the year I will not have graduated, I will not have a job, Jeremy will not propose to me. And she's like, "This is so many conditionals." I mean, (pause) I'm not worried. (laughter) I mean, because I sort of realize that, you know, I am pretty happy in life. And I was actually proud of myself for marking that decision. And my advisor was really happy I'm staying around for another year because he's like, "Oh," you know, he's like, "Yes, I sort of, you know, if you had time constraints I could have seen that, you know, you could have finished it up." He was like, "But I'm definitely happy to have you around for another year."

THERAPIST: That's a nice response.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I was just like, "Yeah, I'm happy to be around too. I just sort of feel like now I really understand all my programs, what I'm doing. I'm starting to I mean, just even basic sort of all-around general physics. I'm really starting to understand. [00:19:31]

THERAPIST: You're learning.

CLIENT: Yeah, I just sort of, like, you know, I'm starting to get that sort of knowledge of it all sort of fits together. So yeah, I guess…

THERAPIST: It sounds like you're developing more confidence.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, that class last semester in quantum information, that was a horrible and it was a wonderful class because it really I mean, it just reminds me of, like, when you work hard and maybe you're not the best at it but you do learn, you know. And I guess that's the point of graduate school, is learning. And since I wasn't interested in working for Ben (ph) as a professor, I didn't really care, like, to be I mean, I sort of feel like that really got me into learning all about different types of physics.

So, I mean, I was kind of emotional during the Aspen (ph) trip.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it sounds like it was a tough set of circumstances. It's really hard to watch your dad struggle like that.

CLIENT: And then me and Jeremy got in a big fight about my dad, you know, and how Jeremy was just like I was just like I mean, now I was like, "Should I even have them hang out anymore together?" I sort of see that Jeremy can stand just sort of like his mom has a big personality and, you know, like, being around his mom all the time was, like, it was trying (laughter) just because she's, you know, a bundle of energy and, like, always asking me questions. I was like, I just want to go upstairs and do my work. I just want to hide. (laughter)

THERAPIST: How long were you there?

CLIENT: Six days? So quite a bit. So, I mean, (pause) and it was definitely, I mean, Jeremy breaking his rib. It was a hairline fracture. I mean…

THERAPIST: I'm sure it was really painful.

CLIENT: Yeah, he's still pretty in pain and that sort of I sort of we had kind of a, like, a dispute this last Saturday about I think the thing is, is that even though you know a person for a long time you still don't figure out how they there's always something new and you learn about them. And I sort of learned this weekend that he doesn't like to sit around on the weekends. And then, you know, eventually leave the house by 3:00 or 4:00. To me that's fine I'm kind of a night owl but I sort of realize that, you know, he wants to get out (ph) early in the morning. Because he was kind of mopey (sp?) all that day. I was like, "So what do you want to do?" And he was like," Well, I don't know." I was like, "Oh. Well, do you want to do this? Do you want to do that?" And I was, like, trying so hard to make him happy and it was I got really mad at him because he was so unhappy or just sort of moping and sort of sad. And eventually, you know, we were talking over we were both starving as we (laughter). I think we were a mixture of sort of hungry and sort of tired, you know. [00:22:52]

And so it was nice to finally figure out how he ticked, like, worked. And in one sense I'm like, "This interferes with my after breakfast nap." I haven't taken one of those. I guess for me, like, the weekends are always something where you got to sleep in, especially now that I don't take naps anymore. It's sort of like I want that nap. But yesterday we had a trial run of getting up early. Like, I went to dance at 10:30 and he walked around. You know, I saw his point, that it did get the day going, you know. But it was just harder to then later do stuff later last night when we went to a Super Bowl party.

THERAPIST: You were tired. You'll (ph) figure out a balance of what you do together and how you will line your schedules and maybe sometimes when you take a day to do your own thing it'll be on your own schedule.

CLIENT: Yeah, and that's what…

THERAPIST: You don't have to totally converge. [00:23:54]

CLIENT: Yeah. That's something I I mean, that's the because I also realize, like, when I came back from Florida there were a lot of my own habits that I wanted to keep. And some of like, I like my Cinnamon Toast Crunch and sometimes, like, after breakfast, maybe an hour and a half. So I'm just really starving. And, like, he would very upset at first, when I would have a half cup of Cinnamon Toast Crunch. He was like, "Am I not feeding you enough? It's not good to snack." I said, "Listen, my body is feeling very hungry and I could snack away or I could just grab a half cup of cereal, eat it and feel better." And so eventually he's actually now grown to really like Cinnamon Toast Crunch around the house. (laughter) But I sort of see that it's always sort of like an equilibrium, that it's never a static one. And I don't know if that's just because, like, you know, we haven't been living together for all that long. Or maybe it's just that's how all things are, is equilibriums are never sort of sentenced (ph) down. There's, like, certain routines but, you know, it changes upon the workload, the exercise level. [00:25:12]

And I'm just I think I'm just sort of starting to figure out that maybe I just need to analyze every sort of situation. Like, if things are going well, sort of [try and] (ph) reboot.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think giving yourself some flexibility to notice what's working when. And things may not work exactly the same for you as they do for him. And I know it sounds like one of the things that's been hard about living together and maybe even before you were living together is food. He's very comfortable when things are routine.

CLIENT: Yes. (laughter)

THERAPIST: And figuring out how you can do what's right for you, even when that doesn't match with his routine, how to kind of stretch those sort of boundaries a little bit because you do you need to also be able to do what works for us. It's not necessarily the same. And it's not necessarily a comment that what he's doing is wrong but it's not yours.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I guess, you know, and that's yeah. I think that's the one thing, like, I sort of see, like, OK, well if we're going to do something that he wants, like, if we're going to walk around this early in the morning, which, mind you, is, like, noon. (laughter)

THERAPIST: But earlier than you would be going. (laughter) [00:26:39]

CLIENT: I'm like, "OK, well maybe we'll pop into this Asian fashion store," and he was excited. He was, you know, happy. And I was like, oh, OK, well I can still be sort of spontaneous. Like, I mean, there was a lot of things that he did, like, oh.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 26:54) give and take there.

CLIENT: Yeah. So, I sort of realized that, you know, like, if I get him, you know as long as he has his getting out in the morning and, like, I can do ballet, which is something that I never liked to do ballet in the beginning but once I take the class I'm like, "Oh, it's so fun." So I sort of realized that, OK, if I'm going to have to get up in the morning and be active I might as well do something that I'll feel happy after. And, you know, and he just sort of let me go to dance and then later he came and met me. And so I sort of see that that was sort of, like, a way for me to have my own time and also have together time.

And I think that's sort of [when I] (ph) and I've realized also that sometimes by me working at home he sort of because I want to keep on working when I'm at home. Like, I don't want to stop my project and I realize that, oh, wait, Jeremy comes home and he sees it's not work time it's relax time. And I sort of realize that, you know, working within those things, like, if I'm at home and he's at home after work, maybe it's not the best place to do more work. [00:28:19]

THERAPIST: Yeah, you might need to find a different place, if you need to do more work.

CLIENT: Living in the Square there's, like, so many coffee shops. I just have to [get in] (ph). (laughter)

THERAPIST: You can find a place to go, create a nook.

CLIENT: Yeah, I just have to get out of my jammies. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Yeah, and part of that is, you know, sharing a space with anyone is different than living on your own or living with roommates who don't necessarily expect you to be engaged with them when you're home.

CLIENT: (laughter) Or maybe expect you to be engaged but you don't care what they think. That was more yeah. And so I think that's sort of, like, you know, I think it's always sort of, like, a dynamic process. And, yeah, I mean, that and I think it's sort of, like, my plants. Everyday I'm learning something new about how to take care of plants and, like, sometimes I sort of realize, like, sometimes obsessing too much can be bad sometimes I over water my plants. And I think maybe obsessing over, like I found that I obsess over things I worry about. Like sometimes now obsessing about my work (inaudible at 29:39) and kind of, like, ignoring my relationship. That was, like, sort of, like, last month when or last few weeks. I just didn't feel very close to Jeremy and even Jeremy noted that. I think it was because he was he gets depressed during the winter, mostly because he can't walk outside so freely. And I guess that's a common thing. And I found that I get very frustrated when, like, I try and show affection but there's no return.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's hurtful.

CLIENT: And so then I just sort of get like, it's a negative feedback thing and it's always hard to, you know. And so I guess work with one sort of viable thing work and ballet, which I am like, today the Ballet Placement classes are today. And then…

THERAPIST: Whoo.

CLIENT: (laughter) I know. You know, I definitely was working really hard this past month trying to get back in, you know, really working on my extension. But now at this point I sort of know what to expect. Like, it's going to be an hour long of hocus pocus sort of hip hop music. It's really not going to be a placement class, per se just everyone dancing together and if they really like you maybe they'll put you in advanced. I mean, I have a scheduling conflict with (ph) I can't make all the intermediate. There's only two intermediates. Yeah, and I sort of see myself getting mad not upset this time, because I know what to expect. [00:31:25]

You know, but deep down inside I sort of realize that I have come a long way and that, you know, it's kind of like a work in process. I mean, I do sort of see that now, like I mean, one thing I am glad at is them putting me in intermediate really got me to work hard and go to class and sort of realize, I mean, that it's hard for me now not to get too upset about dance because it's so much like I mean, it's too hours of working. Like, an hour and a half class and then, like, stretching and strengthening. I mean, it's really intensive and I don't remember myself, like, working this hard in a long time.

So I sort of realize that, you know, whatever's going to happen is going to happen but the thing is that, you know, at least I know now how to work and…

THERAPIST: And focus on if you can try to shift some of your focus to what is it that you can get out of it regardless of externally where they place you or who (inaudible at 32:32) in what way. I know that it may not eliminate all of the disappointment if you don't get that advanced nod, but if alongside that can also be, "Well, regardless of where I get placed, what is it that I can get out of what I put into it?" And I'm glad to see that you've been able to recognize some of your own improvement in certain skills.

CLIENT: And definitely I…

THERAPIST: And commitment to it. You've had a lot of commitment to it this year.

CLIENT: Yeah, I know I have. I mean, before and it definitely, by living, you know, living with Jeremy it's really sort of freed up my life to do that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you've had less time in travel.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, [as come the new year's] (ph) I sort of see a lot of some, you know, things. I really see myself, like, coming along positively.

THERAPIST: Well, I'm glad to hear that. We probably need to wrap up for today. And I want to take a moment to just check some dates with you since we're switching to this new time. [00:33:33]

CLIENT: [Now I have] (ph).

THERAPIST: So the Monday at 9:30 is open for you whenever you want it. It's just a matter of how many times you want to come each month.

CLIENT: Let's see. So I would say well, last month we only did, like, one day.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think we should do more than that.

CLIENT: (laughter) Yeah, I know, I know.

THERAPIST: We have been (inaudible at 34:14), like, three.

CLIENT: How many co-pays do I have left?

THERAPIST: I don't know right off the bat. I can e-mail you by the end of the day today to give you an idea. So if you want to schedule some and then reevaluate based on that…

CLIENT: Yeah, but I'm thinking that maybe since I only did one in January, maybe, like, two more days in February.

THERAPIST: OK, so let's do the 11th and the 25th because the 18th is President's Day.

CLIENT: OK. Eleventh and 25th.

THERAPIST: So that's next week and then skip a week.

CLIENT: Well, it is nice to have the whole morning now. (laughter) I'm really excited.

THERAPIST: You do get some good, bright sunlight today at least.

CLIENT: I know.

THERAPIST: And so when you come next week we can fix some dates for March and that way you'll know exactly where you are in your new class sessions by then. Do you need a pen?

CLIENT: Yes I do. I remember the week before I was walking out the door and I was like (inaudible at 35:39) you were like, "Oh, I need a payment." (laughter) Like, oh yes, that's right.

THERAPIST: [Do it] (ph) out of habit.

CLIENT: It was 25 dollars?

THERAPIST: Yes, that's right (ph).

CLIENT: And it's the fourth today?

THERAPIST: Correct.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 35:57) I just liked how everything was even numbered. (laughter) And then I... sometimes I wonder if for a graduate student I'm pretty dippy. (laughter)

THERAPIST: (laughter) You appreciate the little things.

CLIENT: (laughter) That's a nice way of putting it.

THERAPIST: It can be really useful to be well-rounded.

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