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RESPONDENT: I guess I'm feeling a little scattered in life. I'm having a hard time keeping on schedule or really-I mean, last night I was-I mean, I guess it was-Jeremy (sp) and I kind of had a long day. And I wanted to do the laundry. And he eventually fell asleep on the couch. And I was like, "Yes!" I can actually surf on the Internet. And I can do my work. [0:00:40]

I was looking up because I have part of this course of the future course. This week it's my opportunity to share something. The last two weeks I missed because I just didn't. You know, that's another-I miss the course because I just didn't really feel prepared for it. Or I'd missed two classes, and so-but last night I was staying up. And I was-the time was just passing by quickly as I was reading all about education. And then by the time I got to do laundry and get to bed, it was, like, one o'clock. And I just-. [0:01:25]

INTERVIEWER: Makes sense why you overslept today.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, I turned off my alarm three times this morning. It doesn't help that the alarm is my phone. And I put it underneath my pillow. I just have been oversleeping a lot. And it's just this sort of wondering why am I not going to sleep? I mean, in one sense it's hard for me to do-on the weekends, to not do work or...because I mean, that's just-Jeremy sees weekends as vacations. And in a sense I just-because my weeks aren't as structured, sometimes I get a lot of work done. [0:02:17]

INTERVIEWER: Grad student life is different.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Weekends are often a chance to do a lot of work.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. And so, in that sense, I think that sometimes when Jeremy goes to sleep, it's like, "Ah, yes!" I can actually have my focus. And I feel horrible because wishing your significant other would go to sleep so you can work. I mean, that doesn't sound like a-and most people are like, "No. I want to fall asleep together." [0:02:47]

But I mean, I guess in my family that sort of my mom liked to work during the night because Dad was asleep, children were asleep. And when she was going to college, she would be working, doing her homework from 10 P.M. to 4 A.M. So, she wasn't getting much sleep back then. But, yeah, so, it's been kind of in terms of my work, I didn't present my results last week. Just the day of that I was thinking about presenting my results, I just-they weren't ready. And I felt like really I didn't even go to group meeting because I felt...well, yeah, I just stayed home all Tuesday because I wanted to work on the results. [0:03:48]

And I was really self-conscious about my face. That was another thing that was taking up a lot of time. For whatever reason, I don't what I ate or what happened, but two weeks ago, my face really broke out. And I was just really, really, really self-conscious about what my face looked like. And I'd be exfoliating like crazy because my face was dry. But there was acne underneath it. [0:04:24]

I mean, now it's all healed, and because I'm watching my every little speck like a hawk now. But I mean, when Jeremy and I, we went to Chicago, I felt really bad that it took me so long to cover up and try and make my face so I felt comfortable. And we were supposed to meet his friend at the club. And because I was still working on my face, we were 15 minutes late. And Jeremy got very anxious. And I felt very bad because I knew that it wasn't his fault. And he was being very sweet. And, I mean, we eventually saw his friend. And everything was calm from there. And-. [0:05:10]

INTERVIEWER: But it was getting in the way of doing what you were supposed to be doing, whether it be go to class or have a social engagement.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. And that's-I mean, because I-yeah, and then I started to see. I look at other girls on the bus. And when my skin was bad, I look at all the girls. And, oh, why is their face so smooth. I would love to have that. I wouldn't-they don't have any scars. They don't have any dry patches where there's scars beneath. And I just-but now that my face has gotten better, now I sort of see, wow, a lot of people, they just don't care so much about their skin. I mean, it's just I don't know. [0:05:57]

And part of my skin problems is that I'll pick at my face when I get stressed. And I did that since I was little. I was kind of-our mom liked to pop zits. So it was sort of a passed-on thing that when you're stressed out, you go pop zits. And-but now I find myself-I'll be giving myself scars, and picking at scars. It's like, why do I do it? It's not good for the face. I mean, obviously there's times where it's okay to pop a zit. [0:06:40]

But other times it's just going to cause lots of infection. But I still-I do this. And it's hard to stop. And that's another thing. That's another thing. I find it-I was dieting last week because I ate a lot in Chicago. And I found myself very lethargic. But it was really hard. I mean, I used to be the epitome of self-control. And I just-it seems like things-I'm having a hard time controlling things. I mean, I don't know if it's just because I'm becoming more relaxed, or...[0:07:32]

INTERVIEWER: I wonder if you're working really hard to control some things that might not need to be so tightly controlled, and then not having enough energy left over to control things that might actually make a bigger difference for you.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: You run out of willpower at some point. And if you're using a lot up some place else, there might not be enough left over.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: What do you think it really makes sense to try to control? [0:08:06]

RESPONDENT: Well, health-wise, eating and probably the amount of sleep that I'm getting because those sort of are the very basics, sleep and food. Those are the things that should be sort of-it shouldn't be just letting slide. Also, I should be controlling how much time I spend on the Internet. There's so much time that I waste. And I don't even know why at this point, where the time goes, or-it's not even-sometimes, I mean, it's not so much checking my e-mail that I used to have a really bad problem with. [0:09:08]

Some days it is checking e-mail. Sometimes it's looking at dresses or looking at recipes or just trying to procrastinate from doing work. Yeah. I don't know why I procrastinate so much from doing work. It's-I mean, I could say it's boring. But I mean everyone does sort of boring work. Or, I mean, it's somewhat redeeming. But I'm already procrastinating doing my work for the course of the future. I don't know why I'm putting off it. I mean, it's just frustrating. [0:10:00]

But it's also relieving to-and it might be that work has gotten so much. I've gotten so behind that it's easier to forget it or easier to just want it to let it go, or-I mean, but I did find that when I was at the hairdresser's on Friday when I was getting my hair done, I found it with the noise and the clatter, I was finding it much easier because I was trying to type up my project and hand it over to a younger graduate student in our group. [0:10:45]

And I found it much easier to just type. I mean, maybe I'm just a coffee shop type of person that needs the noise. But I found myself writing more of the introduction. And normally I would take 20, 30, an hour on two sentences. And here within 10-15 minutes, I basically fleshed out a paragraph. I mean, yeah, some of it was probably not as sharp as I would want it. But I mean I don't know if it's just that when I'm at home, there's just not enough distraction, but why?

INTERVIEWER: Have you not been leaving the house? [0:11:26]

RESPONDENT: No. Yeah, I haven't been, especially last week. And I didn't go to racquetball more than twice last week. I mean, I kept going, oh, I'm going to go. Oh, I'm going to go. And I brought my racquetball bag many times. But I just-I didn't feel like going to racquetball. I didn't feel like doing anything. I just felt like going back home. And on the weekends, we're rarely home.

I mean, we had someone over on Saturday, Jeremy and I, his friend Dan. And we went out for a picnic. And then I made a carrot cake. And then we went over to our friend's place for dinner. And the next day we were out. And Jeremy was so happy that we're going out. And I actually have a good time once we're out. But it's hard. Then the next-for me to-I don't know why I need to be at home so much or why I'm so afraid, or why if I'm out on the weekends, I feel like this need to be home and be in my jammies, or not engage. [0:12:49]

And I was watching a talk yesterday about this lady who was an astronaut. She worked overseas as a doctor. She was highly integrated to racquetball when she was in college. And I was just thinking, wow. This is a-she's doing it all. How does she have time? How does she have the energy? And I'm like, what am I doing? I was just-I'm afraid to leave home. I'm on the couch. I mean, I guess it's kind of like I sort of see with my sister who's very down to sort of her sofa. And-but I just-I don't-yeah.

INTERVIEWER: That's not how all your weeks are, though.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. [0:13:44]

INTERVIEWER: So, I wonder-it sounds like you got sort of sucked back into that routine because you were feeling really self-conscious about your appearance. And then once that started again, it became hard, sort of reinforcing the anxiety that you have about going out.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And putting yourself out there.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And you kind of give yourself that message when you haven't gone out that you can't go out.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: It's that hurdle of getting out there and being more active seem a lot higher than when the couple of weeks before that, you had gotten into the routine of most days getting out to either go to your office or go someplace to study or go to racquetball a couple times a week.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. [0:14:35]

INTERVIEWER: Several times a week.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And it's like, when you get into that routine, you remind yourself that, oh, yeah, you can do this. And once you get over that hurdle, it actually feels good. You get good feedback about it.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. Yeah. I was really-I just feel crazy how self-conscious I still am. And that's one thing when I was going to Chicago, and I saw all these people. Chicago fashion is quite distinct. I just felt sort of really self-conscious. Oh, what am I wearing? I'm wearing tall boots. Everyone's wearing booties and four-inch heels. And how are they walking around the city, but they do it. [0:15:20]

And later I realize that they probably don't wear four-inch heels except when they're going out and take a taxi. But this is later, came to mind. But I just sort of felt like, why am I so behind the times? Why am I so unfashionable? And I feel embarrassed. I shouldn't feel embarrassed. I should-I mean, I think I'm somewhat in shape. And I somewhat care about what I'm wearing. That sort of should be. It's not-life's not one big fashion show.

And yet I'm really clinging on to being fashionable or looking good. And the reality is just sort of a small part of how it impacts the entirety of my day. It's very small. In physics, who cares? Racquetball, I mean, people might care, but they're not going to say anything. I mean, they're probably not going to care. (inaudible at 00:16:34) ignore.

Yeah. And I mean, I guess I'm starting to feel like when I when to the honey store with Jeremy yesterday. And the girl was talking about how some people put honey on their faces if their complexion is not good. And she's like, "Well, obviously, you don't have a skin problem." I was just taken-"Obviously, you have very nice skin." And I was just taken aback because I've never thought about-I think about, oh, my skin is getting better. But the fact that someone might see my skin as actually good, I almost wanted to videotape what she said. And I looked at my skin in the mirror. And I was like, "Oh, it's not that bad."

INTERVIEWER: You actually sort of mark it in your head.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: How others perceive you. Sometimes your perception of yourself might be skewed. [0:17:28]

RESPONDENT: Yeah. I've been really seeing that. I think it's sort of-yeah, I've been very into myself. And I don't like it. But it's just so easy to get obsessed with my appearance. And it's funny. Most of my friends, they're really not concerned with the way they look. I mean, maybe a little bit, but not in a competitive sort of catty sense like some women do have with their friends.

But-so, I don't know why I'm looking for this-someone to say that I'm pretty or for me to think that I'm pretty because I mean, I see girls in Denver have their head half shaved. I'm like, "How could you do that?" But obviously they like the way it looks. And they think it's cool. And they're okay with it. They're happy with it. And I mean, I should be grateful that, God forbid, that I have a face that's not hurt or burned or scarred by fire. [0:18:51]

And yet I'm just very like, ugh, I hate my skin. Ugh, I hate the way my face is shaped. And I feel like I have such a belly, but I love to eat. And I don't know. Yeah. I think, I mean, that's the reason why there was a dinner (ph), maybe about a month ago. It was on Pi day. But, yeah, it was maybe about a few weeks ago. And I didn't go because I didn't want people to see my face. I didn't want to eat the pie because I didn't want to get fat. And I-.

INTERVIEWER: So, you really missed out. [0:19:38]

RESPONDENT: Yeah. I did. And, oh, I didn't go to-oh, yeah, I didn't also go to the open house sort of welcoming thing. And that's because I had racquetball, because I wanted to go to racquetball. But I still could've gone to the open house thing. I just didn't feel like coming in. Yeah, I didn't feel like seeing people, presenting myself. I didn't-I just didn't feel like talking about, "Oh, yeah. I'm in the middle of a paper. It's going slow. I spend most of my time maybe going to racquetball." [0:20:22]

I just didn't feel like I was worthy, or I just didn't feel like talking to people. I didn't feel like I had anything really happy to say. And I feel bad that I think sometimes this impacts Jeremy because I'll spend late at night just sort of scrubbing my face and examining each little mark on it. And I think that sometimes makes things worse because maybe I'm-that's another reason I like when he goes to sleep because then I can possibly pop a zit or pick at something or exfoliate for a long time. And I know that Jeremy sometimes when I'm feeling confident about my face though, in the morning I'll help him make breakfast. And he likes that. He really does. [0:21:15]

INTERVIEWER: He'd rather you be engaged with him than obsessing over these minute details about yourself.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And disliking yourself because of it.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. And I really see-and I also found out from-I don't know. I guess curiosity killed the cat, but it hasn't killed me yet. And I wound up looking through Jeremy's e-mails. It was on his phone. It was while we were in Chicago. And I just sort of scanned by and saw there was a receipt. I normally never look at his e-mails, but I was really curious because he was complaining about how much the-he wasn't complaining. It was just like, well, I'm not going to say anything. But we'll say something that, woo (ph), engagement rings are expensive. [0:22:08]

And so, naturally I was curious. And then I saw he spent $15,000 on a ring. And of course then I was curious of what kind, what it was going to look like. And I was-I felt really bad that here I'm spending money on makeup. And I was like I'm not spending money on him. I feel-I mean, I am doing lots for him. I did his laundry, and I cleaned the bathroom and made his favorite carrot cake. And I mean, I guess I don't know. [0:22:40]

But I was also grumpy when he got home on Friday right before his friend showed up. And he was like, "Oh, how are you?" And I was like, "Oh, I'm fine. I just have lots of work. And I had to clean the bathroom and do this, do the laundry." And I mean, I was grumpy because I was actually hungry because waiting till eight o'clock was making my tummy very-because I wanted to have dinner. But I had to wait. And I was just sort of really hungry and exhausted. And I was sort of frustrated that I had gone to the beauty parlor, I had done work, gone to Brown, didn't do racquetball so I could come home and clean and do some work. But just things go by much slower.

And it's hard to carry out sort of all these errands, and yet also get my work done. And so, I was grumpy with him. And he was like, "Oh, do you still love me?" And I was like, "Of course." He was like, "Well-. [0:23:49]

INTERVIEWER: We all get grumpy sometimes.

RESPONDENT: I know. I know. I know. And I just-I was like, "Well." I was like, "Yes." I said, "I'm just really hungry." And I found that at times when I say-his friend Dan just recently his girlfriend of eight years broke up with him maybe about a few months ago. So, but he's back checking out women. And of course he's a very nice guy. And-but he made this comment because he was talking about specific attributes of women that he likes. And he's like, "No, no, no. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a shallow guy. I like all women."

And I look at Jeremy. And I was like, "Oh. Well, this guy's shallow." And then instantly he just sort of frowned because I don't know what I meant by that. I meant he was really picky. And in the beginning it seemed like he was shallow because he's-maybe I just didn't get it as a joke. But he's like, "Oh. I only date women that are blonde haired and blue eyed or have red hair and hazel eyes. These are the only type of women that I've ever gone for." [0:25:08]

And I remember back in the dating time, or in the earlier days when I was really afraid that whether I fit in that category and whether if I dressed the wrong way. So, maybe in my head I had seen him as shallow. But now I-it's very clear that he loves me for who I am. And we have such a good time. And I just sort of felt bad that not only did I call him shallow, it was in front of his friend.

And later we talked about it. And I said that oh, well, I really meant to say that you were picky. And he's like, "Yeah. Well." He explained the connotation of shallow means that you just like a woman for what they look like. But I felt like, "Why am I saying this? Why can't I just agree with Jeremy and fawn over and tell everyone he's such a great guy?" because I do tell them that Jeremy is a really good guy. But I mean, I guess there's parts of us that aren't so good. And it's like why am I being so critical on him? And-. [0:26:13]

INTERVIEWER: You're also being really critical of yourself.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: So, if you look forward to the coming week, what do you want to devote your time and energy to?

RESPONDENT: Well-.

INTERVIEWER: What would feel good? What would feel like it was giving back to you?

RESPONDENT: I think what I really want to work on is being able to not obsess so much about the way I look so I can be calmer. I think being less critical on myself so that I'm able to engage. [0:26:56]

INTERVIEWER: So, let's frame that in a positive way.

RESPONDENT: Okay.

INTERVIEWER: So, instead of focusing on not being critical of yourself, focusing on getting out of the house and going to the things that you want to go to when you plan.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: So, you're focusing on getting yourself to those events or to your office and letting go of the things that get in the way of that.

RESPONDENT: Yes. That's definitely something, and also a daily activity that I can do or write, something that I can write down or something, or-.

INTERVIEWER: Well, what's your routine for getting yourself out? What do you need to do? Not what do you sometimes get absorbed in that prevents you from getting out, but I think the daily activity can be doing the basics for getting up and getting out. [0:27:44]

RESPONDENT: I view washing my face, putting on makeup, and eating breakfast.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: And giving Jeremy a hug goodbye.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. So, I think setting yourself up for success by giving yourself just enough time to do that. If you give yourself time to start really nitpicking about your makeup, then that could extend for hours.

RESPONDENT: Yes, it could.

INTERVIEWER: And so, what you want to-I think what would be helpful is if you get yourself in a routine of-you can probably get it done in half an hour.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: So, give yourself time to do that so that you feel confident, but you don't sort of go over to the other side of feeling obsessive, which sometimes creates anxiety and gets in your way. [0:28:30]

RESPONDENT: And maybe setting a timer.

INTERVIEWER: That would work. That's a great idea, setting a timer. So, when that goes off, you're done.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And knowing that that's done enough.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. Yeah, because I've gotten a lot better by putting a clock visible on the bathroom.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

RESPONDENT: But now I need to take it one step further, so that I have that timer, and realizing that when the timer goes off, it's time.

INTERVIEWER: You're done. And it's-and wherever you are at that point that it's good enough for what you need to do. This is not your wedding day. So, it's okay if your makeup is not absolutely perfect or your skin doesn't look absolutely flawless. It's good enough to go out in public.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. That's true. I did skip brushing my hair this morning, but I didn't care.

INTERVIEWER: That's okay. I mean, there's times when that's perfectly okay.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: You can get to therapy without your hair being brushed. [0:29:26]

RESPONDENT: Oh. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. And I think that's been actually a problem throughout my life, is getting ready quick enough so that I can go. I normally obsess. I don't obsess really about stoves anymore. Sometimes I do.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah. So, you've let go of some things.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. But then I strengthen my control on other things. And that's something that needs to just let 'er roll.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Think flexibility is actually your friend.

RESPONDENT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah. So, let me stop there for today.

RESPONDENT: Okay.

INTERVIEWER: Let me double check the (inaudible at 00:30:07). I think it's not next week, but the week after.

RESPONDENT: I think you're right.

INTERVIEWER: Yep. Exactly what I have, so the 22nd at 9:30. (pause) It's the 7th, right?

RESPONDENT: 9th? 8th.

INTERVIEWER: (inaudible at 00:30:58) several things this morning. That's ahead of the times (ph).

RESPONDENT: Thank you. See you in two weeks.

INTERVIEWER: Bye. See you in two weeks.

RESPONDENT: And enjoy this spring weather.

INTERVIEWER: Thank you. It was nice today. (00:31:36)

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