TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Oh, hi.

CLIENT: Sorry, I didn’t know you were here. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: Oh, you can always feel free to come in if the door is open.

CLIENT: Oh, OK. OK. How are you?

THERAPIST: Good. Thank you.

CLIENT: Nice to see you.

THERAPIST: Good to see you, as well. [Pauses] How are things?

CLIENT: [Chuckles] Oh, weird thing – I haven’t seen you in two weeks. Things are all better, in general, I think. [Pauses] Was it last week? Our mediator sent us the documents, and I was trying to find a lawyer, and the one that I liked that was a $7,000 retainer, and I was like, “Oh, my God. I can’t afford that.” So, in the meantime, our mediator sent us the documents and, included in that document, she is like, “Oh, I’ve included the child support worksheet that we didn’t have a chance to do.” [00:00:56]

So she basically was – it was like you said; it was like a formula, basically, based on the State of [chuckles] Connecticut, where she took: Rich’s salary, my salary, what we mutually pay for Brady, so like the health insurance; and then deducted what he would pay for all of the school; and then came up with an amount of $1,500 a month that he needs to give me every month.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And so she was like, “All right, look these over. Here is the stuff. So Rich would pay off all the credit debt if you didn’t do alimony, if you choose to. So if you waive alimony, you’ll be out of credit debt. Here is the child support. Rich will also pay for all the tuition and everything.” And when I saw that, I was like, “Oh, my God.” I was so relieved when I saw that, because I was like that is what makes – that is all I needed. Really, that – it is a lot more than I thought I would get. You know? And so she is like, “Look this over. If everything is fine, just have your attorneys look it over, and then we’ll meet again and just make sure everything is fine, and sign it.” [00:01:59]

And so he – so I didn’t ask. I haven’t talked to him directly about any of it, so he responded with just some other questions and some typo [ph] things, but then he is like, “Overall, it looks good to me.” So then – so then, today, I filled out my stuff and then just was like, “OK.” And, right before I got here, I just wrote, “Just to clarify, this is all the stuff that is – we’re agreeing to,” and then I’m waiting to hear back.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So it makes a huge dif – I am so – I was dancing at work when I saw it. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Because I didn’t realize it was that – like you were saying, it was something that easy but – that it was something that easy.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So he could come back today and be like, “No, I didn’t –” – I don’t know, but I’m hoping, if that is it, then I’m fine with what we have.

THERAPIST: Are you going to waive alimony?

CLIENT: I think so.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: Because I don’t think he can give any more money. [00:03:00]

I mean, looking at his numbers, we’re almost pretty much equal. I mean, obviously, he has his parents who can give him more money, but [pauses] – for the amount that he is getting deducted and that I’m getting, I think he’ll probably be bringing home maybe $400 more a month than me. So I just don’t feel like there is more room for it. You know? And [pauses] I think $1500 seems like a lot to get on top of Brady’s tuition. So I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Try to consult with an attorney [inaudible at 00:03:34]…

[Crosstalk]

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I – so – so, on top of that – on top of that, so, I e-mailed the mediator, because she is in a law office, and she had said, “If you need someone to look over your stuff, let me know.”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm?

CLIENT: So I e-mailed her, also, and just was like, “Oh, do you have someone that can, maybe, review this with me and maybe not have such a high retainer, or maybe do an hour?” Because I’m pretty much – we’re close to the end, maybe, so I don’t need someone to give $5,000 to. [00:04:02]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So she said she’d let me – she was like, “Yeah, let me get you someone’s information.”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So I feel like I’m legally in a better – or like I’m in a – at least that number came out, because I was like, “How do we even get a number? Is this going to be so dragged out?”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But, no, he understands he makes double what I make, so, hopefully – and if he pays all the credit card debt, that is fantastical. And, lately, I don’t know what it is – and I don’t know if it is because we’re at this point where we’re agreeing to things, [but] he has been – we’ve both been – he has been very nice. He stopped talking to people. My friend Carla was like, “Rich hasn’t said much of anything. He just told us you guys are in the middle of it, but he hasn’t said much.” So she is like, “It has been quite a change.” And I was like, “Well, we had a talk about it [chuckles] and, at mediation, I said something.” [00:05:01]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I think – I have a feeling – I, obviously, think he wants us to be cordial, but I think he doesn’t want to upset me more so that I go after for – may probably go after more of his finances or something. So, in general, whenever we talk, it is like, “Hey, how are you?” like jokey, like, “What is going on? Oh, yeah, do you mind doing this for me?” “Oh, yeah, sure, tot –” – it has been very friendly and cordial, which has been nice.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Because you know that that is my always [ph] issue, is that he is mad at me. So he is still probably mad at me, but [chuckles] he is not showing it as much.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So – so that has been better. So the past couple of weeks have been better, for sure, I think because I know the money thing is better. So that has kind of eased my mind. I’m still kind of like I need the money sooner than later, because I’m running out of it. [00:05:59]

And my friend Angela, who has been – and her divorce is getting finalized, too – she was kind of like, “Oh, I’m surprised that you haven’t gotten any money.” She was like, “You’ll get it retroactively, usually, but it is tough. How are you surviving without getting money from him?” I’m like, “Barely.” You know? [Chuckles] But I know that it is coming, so I just need the check to come at some point.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So that is good. And, overall, I’ve been feeling – like, I came home the other day and I was like I really like my apartment. I’m totally getting better about being alone at my place, and just—or just doing – like, last night, I went and got my nails done because I’m going on a business trip this weekend, so – and I was like, “Oh, I’ll just go and grab a burrito, and I could – and I’ll take it home.” I was like, “Oh, no, I’ll just sit and eat by myself and read a magazine or something.” It was totally fine and – so I’m starting to get more fine with doing stuff by myself or just being at home by myself... [00:07:04]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: …And focusing on things that I like to do.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And even when my son is asleep, it is like I’ve been watching shows, or I’ll call a friend, or read a book or something. So – and he is great. My son has been really wonderful, so he has been – so I’m like – I keep saying – I don’t know if it was I went to California, got some vitamin D or something. [Chuckles] The money is the huge thing; I think that was the big stressor. And Rich’s attitude has seemed to turn a little bit, so [pauses] that has been very good.

THERAPIST: Those are all good things.

CLIENT: Yeah. So now I’m just kind of – I will – yeah, I will definitely have someone go over my stuff before I agree to things, but it seems like we’re both kind of going towards a mutual agreement rather than a fight, because I just really didn’t want that at all. [00:08:01]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: That would have stressed me out a lot, constantly. But we’ve talked about things. I told him how I wanted to sign up Brady for soccer, and if he obviously could attend it – we could attend any of them whenever, and he said, “Yeah, that sounds great. We could – just tell me how much it is, and we’ll split it,” and so – or, I made payments to the credit card bills, and he is like, “All right, I’ll give you half,” so he has been giving half for that.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So that has been good, in general. And I’m really – I know I’m going on this month, but my apartment is getting there. I just had one or two more things to get, but it looks really nice, and [pauses] I like it a lot, actually. When I came home the other day, I was, “I kind of like living here.” It is good. [Chuckles] It is working. [Chuckles] I get to keep my dog, and I have a dog walker now. So I feel like I’m getting a little more settled with things. [00:09:02]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: My friends have been really great. So I go to Denver this weekend for a conference, for work, to leave Friday, come back on Wednesday. And my friend – one of my oldest friends from San Diego is meet – is going to go out for the weekend and meet me, because she knows everything that has been going on. She is like, “I’m coming out to see you and make sure you’re OK.” So everyone has been really, really good.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So now I’m just kind of hoping that the legal part of it gets resolved quickly so that we can go and file this thing. [Pauses] And that is it. It is not it but that is the big part of it. My friend, who is divorced – she has been at it for a year now; I don’t want to do that. But her ex has been a jerk. Rich is a jerk, too, so I was [inaudible at 00:10:00], hopefully. [Chuckles] [00:10:02]

So, yeah, I think I’m definitely in a better – better now than I was a few weeks ago.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And I haven’t really had – I think the last bad day I had was right before I saw you, when I went to mediation. Mediation day was – I came back and was like, “Oh, my God.” But I haven’t had a bad day since then, I don’t think.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I get sad when I drop off my son.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I still get a little sad about that, but it is not as horrible as it was before. But it is tough to know that I won’t see him for a week or something. And I tend to feel like I’m missing out on his life. I don’t know – it is like they say, when you have kids, “Oh, it goes by so fast, and then you realize they’re all grown up.” And so it is like, well, that happens but now it is like half of that, like I have half of that time? [00:11:00]

So that gets a little hard. [Sighs] But I’m trying to – and I do enjoy the time I have with him, and we do a lot of activities together. I let him stay up late sometimes so that we have more time together, but I know he is happy with Rich. But I can tell he misses me sometimes by – he is not sad; it is just kids and their moms – it is like a…

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: He never really wants to get off the phone that much when I call at night, but he will. But it is like, with Rich, he is just like, “Hi, Dad, da-da-da-,” and then he is like, “All right, I’m done,” but, with me, he just wants to keep talking and talking, which is – it is nice, for sure. I just feel a little bad, still.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: I feel bad for him sometimes, so – I don’t – I don’t think he is suffering, but I don’t know. [Pauses] [00:12:00]

He doesn’t show every – I don’t know. I’m sure he misses me, so [pauses]…

THERAPIST: And you miss him.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. [Pauses] Yeah, I miss him a lot. [Pauses] But I imagine this gets easier somehow I don’t know – when your kids are away, like in a divorce situation. [Pauses] Maybe not. [Chuckles] But he has been great. He is always so happy and stuff, [pauses] I just think it is hard not to be with him every day, especially because he is so – he is getting older and he is much more a little boy than a baby.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And every time I see him, he just looks taller. He looks like he has grown, [pauses] so that is tough. [00:13:01]

It is a weird – it is a weird – it is weird. It is weird not to be with him. And I know Rich misses him a lot, too, when he doesn’t have him. So [pauses] that has been – that has probably been the toughest so far or recently.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But everything else seems to be going really well so far, hopefully. I just want to sign the forms. [Chuckles] I think that, once I sign them, I’ll be OK, and then I’ll be all right. Not that I think that Rich will change anything, but I worry that something will change, like he changes his mind about something.

THERAPIST: Like what?

CLIENT: Paying for the – I mean, he kind of has to – the child support is kind of a thing he has to do.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It is like a legal thing that he needs to pay for his kid. [00:14:00]

No, I don’t know. I guess there is really nothing. No, I don’t really think he would do anything. [Pauses] [inaudible at 00:14:17] He is not like a malicious person. [Pauses] He has been good with Brady, and he has been very flexible with my travel and everything, so we – I called him, and we talked about traveling. And, “Liam, Peter [ph] and I are going to Virginia in two weeks, so can we swap our days?” and he said, “Yeah, of course.” I had a work event last week, and he picked him up and put him to bed in my apartment, for the sitter, and then the sitter came and took over. So he has been very nice about things like that. So…

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So that is good. [00:15:00]

[Pauses] Don’t I seem better than I was a few weeks ago? [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: Do you feel like I haven’t noticed?

CLIENT: Ah! [Laughs]

THERAPIST: Or do you feel like I haven’t?

CLIENT: No, you have noticed. I think you have, yeah. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. When you ask that, I’m not sure.

CLIENT: No, no, you have.

THERAPIST: Are you looking for affirmation?

CLIENT: No, no, no, no. I just – it is such a difference.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: When I came here weeks ago, I was a miserable mess and…

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: …I feel like I’m progressing really well right now [pauses] which feels good. It feels good. The interesting thing now is that I have a colleague who wants to get divorced, so he keeps coming to me every day, like, “What should I do? What should I do?” and I’m [chuckles] like, “You should go to your therapy.” He is like, “I’ve been going to therapy for six years.” [Chuckles] So he keeps talking to me about what to do, what to do. And just kind of tell him what I – what I’ve done, and explain that it is not easy but… [00:16:02]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: …Do what is best for yourself.

THERAPIST: Now you’re a pioneer.

CLIENT: I know. Right? It has only been [chuckles] eight weeks. I just told him that he has got to be sure that he is going to do it. You always have reservations and fears, but I’m still glad I did it, though. I’m so glad I did it. I wonder if that sounds mean to say. I mean, if Rich were sitting here, it would probably be kind of mean to say, but…

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: …I’m so happy I did what I did. It has been shitty, for sure, but it is what I should have – it is definitely what I should have done.

THERAPIST: It is good that…

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: …You have that sense of certainty.

CLIENT: Yeah. It feels good. I mean, I feel like that has always been the feeling.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Definitely, we’ve had really shitty moments where I was like – ugh I didn’t realize how horrible it would feel. [00:16:59]

But I never have wanted to go – go back and say, “I miss you” or, “No, I made a mistake,” like, “I don’t know what I was thinking.” It has just been more like, “Gah, this is really hard,” financially and emotionally.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But I’ve never wanted to go back.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. I’m glad things are working out for you.

CLIENT: Yeah, that is huge, because that was the biggest fear was that – before you do it, you’re like, “Oh, my God, am I going to regret doing this?” because it is such a big thing. I remember coming in here and being like, “Once I do it, it is done,” and being afraid of that. But – but yeah – no, that – that is the good feeling about it all. There are more good feelings, in general, than bad right now.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I’m just trying to focus on myself and Brady, and spend time with friends, and focus on my work, so… [00:18:03]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It does help that Rich is not a psychotic man, trying to ruin me and stuff, in every aspect. And in regards to some of our friends whom I haven’t talked to, it is like, well, I guess those just aren’t like – I have other friends who I’ve been making plans with and doing things with. I just – I just feel that they’re not going to be my friends anymore, and that is fine; I have other people.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So that works. And [pauses] – no, [pauses] it is good. And I’m excited to go home, as fearful as I am about talking to my mom. But it will be nice to go home and be with family. My brothers will be there, and we’re celebrating my brother’s birthday, so I feel like there is something celebratory about it all. [00:19:02]

I think it is going to be tough because I have to talk to a lot of family about it, I think, and it is like, who wants to talk about ? I really don’t want to talk about my impending divorce [chuckles] over and over again, on vacation, but I know I have to. So cousins will ask and, obviously, my parents, I’m sure, will give me a little bit of grief, my mom probably more than anyone. I think my dad understands that I’m going to lose it if he – actually, I think I – I don’t know if I told you but I actually said to him, “When I go, I need – I understand you guys have questions, but I need you guys to listen and not keep trying to convince me to do otherwise, because it is already done. I want to enjoy my time there, and I just want you guys to be supportive. I know you’re upset but I don’t want you to keep saying things to me that are critical or, in some way, feeling like you’re going to push me to go back, because I’m not doing that.” [00:20:04]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And he was like, “No, of course, of course.” He is like, “Your mom can be a little tough,” because my mom is a really critical person. [Pauses] [Clucks]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But he is like, “I’ll talk to her.” And I don’t think my dad will so much, because I think he understands. He can – he sees where I’m at. He is like, “Are you happier?” I’m like, “I’m much happier.” And he is like, “Is Brady OK?” I mean, their concern is Brady, always, so [pauses] I said, “He is.”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It’ll just be my mom. But I’m not going to stay with my parents; I’m going to stay with my brother because I think that would be better. [Chuckles] I usually do, anyway, but – well, he has a bigger place. But I just don’t want to – I don’t want her to upset me, because she is – my mom can upset me really easily. Like of all the people on the planet, my mother has – is the best person to upset me. So [pauses] I figure why put myself in a situation where it could happen a lot… [chuckles] [00:21:05]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: …Especially if I have Brady with me? I don’t want him to see me get upset all the time. But my brothers will be there. My one brother is in Nicaragua, so I’ve been chatting with him, online, and he is just like, “Don’t worry. She’ll give you grief for a day or two, and then we’ll all tell her to leave you alone,” [chuckles] “and we’ll have fun the rest of the time.” So – so that’ll be good. But it is kind of like this is the big talk with my parents. That has been one thing that needs to happen. And then the next thing that needs to happen, that is not going to – I don’t even know – it’ll probably happen at Brady’s birthday, in September, is seeing my in-laws again, because I haven’t seen or talked to them since all this happened.

THERAPIST: When is Brady’s birthday?

CLIENT: September – So I imagine we would do a joint birthday party, but I have to see them, and I don’t know how that will help [ph]. [00:22:01]

And I think about that, and my friends are like, “That is so far down the road. Don’t even start worrying about it right now.” But [clucks] I do. My one friend is like, “You’re so diplomatic. You’ll probably just be nice, and if they say something mean, you’re just going to be like, ‘OK,’ and not say anything.” [Chuckles] But it is just awkward because I know they just – probably really despise me right now. So – but I don’t want to separate. I don’t want to have separate birthday parties, so [pauses] I think about that, maybe talk to Rich about it.

THERAPIST: There is always a way.

CLIENT: I know. It is a million months away but, for some reason, I keep thinking about it; I don’t know why.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I know. It is like my friend was like, “You have to – you’re going to have to see them at some point, anyway. They’re his grandparents.” So she is like, “You might as well have it at a party or something [chuckles] – a birthday party than at some serious event or something.” [00:23:04]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: But I don’t have to worry about that right now. But now it is just more thinking about going home and talking to my mom. My mom is going to be a mess, but she has been a mess about it for a while. [Pauses] She’ll probably just tell me that I’m making a mistake, or am I, “Marriage takes work.” That is – “There are hard times. That is what you do.” It is like what everyone says, like old-school people.

THERAPIST: It doesn’t sound like she put a lot of work into it.

CLIENT: No. It is like – [pauses] yeah, I know. Hearing from someone who – you’re like, “Seriously? You’re telling me this?” [Chuckles] But it is like – I think I’ll just kind of explain and then, eventually, just be like, “Please stop bringing it up.” I just don’t want her harping on it for the seven days that I’m there.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I know she won’t. She’ll probably be happy that my son – she’ll definitely be happy that my son is there, so, hopefully – and like my brother Frank said, he was like, “He’ll kind of take the focus off a little bit, because they’ll want to hang out with him and spend time with him.”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Not necessarily feeling that they have to keep talking about this over and over again.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So [sighs] we’ll [ph] be fine. [Pauses] It is also like presenting the – “Yeah, I’m getting a divorce.” It is easier to say to people who have been divorced, because they’re like, “Oh,” and they get it; and the people who haven’t are just like, [sympathetically] “Ooh.” It is like – not that you feel like a little bit of a disappointment but a little bit like you’re just, “Yeah, that kind of failed.” [00:25:00]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Not that I’m a failure but it was just like, “Yeah, I know. That didn’t work out.” But [pauses] – but I guess that is what happens when people are in relationships, when people break up and stuff.

THERAPIST: So who, then, are you disappointing?

CLIENT: [Clucks] Yeah, I guess it doesn’t matter. And they’re not really disappointed, I guess. Right? Why would they be disappointed? They’re just kind of more sad – I guess, maybe sad for me. I guess it is more myself being, “I couldn’t keep that together.”

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: But I tried [pauses] for a while. [Pauses] I more just feel bad that I did it kind of – the timing was kind of bad. Maybe I – I should have done it sooner. But I don’t really – at least, not anymore – try to beat myself up about it so much. [00:26:00]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: But if we did – if I did it sooner then I wouldn’t have Brady, so it is kind of like – I guess things happen when they’re supposed to happen. Because I don’t think I was like really strong enough to do it five years ago; I definitely wasn’t. [Chuckles] I tried there a little bit, but then I kind of backtracked.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So I think it is – I had to kind of get to this place to – to do it, anyway.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It seems like – [pauses] [clucks] yeah. [Pauses] And the half-training for the marathon is going really well. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. That is good. It gets me out of bed every morning. I get out of bed anyway, but I get up early, I meet my friend, and go and work – we work out. That has been really good. [00:27:04]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: They – and it is like I feel emotionally stronger, but that is making me feel physically stronger, too.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It is going really well together that way, I think.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah. [Pauses] It has been good. I feel good [pauses] and I’m smiling. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: You are. And your fears aren’t getting the best of you.

CLIENT: Right, because they were before.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, they were.

CLIENT: Now, it is more like – it is a little exciting to – the unknown is a little exciting, like what is to come. You know?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Rather than, “Oh, my God, what is going to happen?” [Pauses] And it is like I have to know I’ll be OK. Even if I completely run out of money next month, I’ll call my parents and beg for a loan. [00:28:05]

But I know I’ll physically be OK. I’m not going to live on the streets or anything like that.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And Rich isn’t going to let me live on the street, either, so – because I have Brady.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But – [pauses] so everyone was like, “Well, you’re going to be OK. It’ll be OK.” Like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” Now, I’m like, “Yeah, you’re right. It will be.”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It will be. [Pauses] Yeah. And this work trip will be good because I’m traveling with a lot of – the CTO of the company and some other people that it is really good for me to get to know and talk to. So I feel like my work has been really great, and that is a good focus. [00:29:01]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And they’ve been so understanding about stuff, which is good – just letting me go to things when I have to go to things. I just need to get divorced. I need to change my name. [Pauses] I want my name back. [Pauses] That is the big thing. My friend Angela says the same thing. She is like, “I just want my name.” [Chuckles] It is like, “Oh, then I’m ‘me’ again.” [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Not ‘me’ again, but you know what I mean? It is like – I don’t know. We’re both very excited to get our names back.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So it’ll be good. [Pauses] My friends are already addressing mail to me with my old name; it is really funny. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: What is your…?

CLIENT: Santana is my middle…

THERAPIST: Santana?

CLIENT: It is now my middle name but that is my maiden name.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm?

CLIENT: So my friend sent me a card the other day, and it said “Vanessa Santana,” and she underlined it five times. [Chuckles] [00:30:06]

I always liked my name. I actually didn’t want to change my name; he wanted me to change my name, and I was like, “Really? You’re really going to make me do it?” He said, “Well, it would be nice for our family.” “OK, fine.” So [pauses] it will be nice to lop [ph] off that other name soon. [Chuckles] That sounds mean, doesn’t it? No. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: You should get…

CLIENT: It all stays in here. Huh? [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: You’re checking [ph] a lot. You worry.

CLIENT: I know.

THERAPIST: You worry about what you’re feeling, what you’re saying, and is it OK.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You’re feeling kind of guilty or self-conscious about it.

CLIENT: Right. [Pauses] Yeah, he called me – Rich called me and was like, “You’re getting mail, already. You’re getting some mail here. It just says ‘Santana,’ so the mailman said to let them know at the post office. [00:31:00]

And I was like, “Oh, that is weird. I haven’t changed anything.”

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: He was like, “Oh, I just wanted you to know because the mailman is still coming but he needs you to make that note at the post office.” I was like, “OK.” [Pauses] But then the mediary [ph] – when she sent the form, she was like, “Vanessa, do you want to change your name back? Because you can do that during – when we file,” and I said, “Yes, I do.”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So [pauses] [beep sounds] It’d be good to get my name back.

THERAPIST: Sorry?

CLIENT: It’ll be good to get my name back.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don’t know what [inaudible at 00:31:37] is, because I know you file and then you’re technically not divorced for 120 days or something like that.

THERAPIST: I thought it was 90.

CLIENT: No, I guess now it is – it must – they keep saying it is 120.

THERAPIST: Maybe I was wrong.

CLIENT: Yeah, it is like…

THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:31:52] four months?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah, I always thought it was three months.

CLIENT: Yeah, I always thought it was three, too, but it is four.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [00:31:59]

CLIENT: Um, [pauses] so yeah. I keep saying that, hopefully, by my birthday, in September. That would be – it would be done. [Pauses] That’ll be good and fast. It is so fast to get married but then it is so long to get divorced. What is that about? They make it so [chuckles] complicated. If you want to get married, you just up the street, to the city hall, and fill out a form. With this, it is like you’ve got to prove all of this stuff and why you don’t like each other, and who gets what. It is just like a pain in the ass.

THERAPIST: Hm, do you think there should be more rigorous process to get married?

CLIENT: Yeah, [chuckles] or make divorce easier. I don’t know. [Chuckles] Probably make divorce easier, because it just adds so much stress to it all. If you want to break up with someone, you just break up with them, and that is… [00:32:58]

My co-worker is like, “I don’t know if I’ll ever get married, seeing everything that is going on.” And I said, “Well, if you have kids, it actually helps, because now I get a check from him every month.” If I wasn’t married, he wouldn’t have to – I don’t know. Maybe he would?

THERAPIST: I don’t know how much child support goes – would when there no marriage. I think there might still be child support; I don’t think that’d be…

CLIENT: No, I guess that makes sense, because there are a lot of people who have to give child support when they’re not actually married or ever been married to the person.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So, yeah, I guess that maybe she shouldn’t even [ph] get married. [Pauses] No, she should if she wants to. [Chuckles] [Pauses] It is not a bad thing; I just don’t ever want to do it again. [Pauses]

THERAPIST: Get married or get divorced?

CLIENT: Definitely, get divorced. I don’t know if I want to get married, even, because the idea of having to divorce someone again sounds horrible. [Pauses] But who knows? Maybe I’ll like someone enough that I’ll do it. [00:33:59]

THERAPIST: It is pretty early to tell.

CLIENT: [Laughs] I – even the bit – well, one of my coworkers was saying I was in the sad stage and then I got into the angry stage. [Chuckles] I’m kind of getting out of the angry stage, though.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. Well, you were in the scared stage for a while.

CLIENT: Yeah. That felt like a long time.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

[Silence for five seconds]

CLIENT: Yeah, being on my own was [traffic sounds] [inaudible at 00:34:31]. [Pauses] Now it is kind of exciting, [pauses] which is good. [Shifts in seat] It is weird that I’m like, “Oh, I’m the one who decides what goes ?” I don’t know. It is funny. Last night, I got home from running errands at ten, and I was like, “I’ll just clean the house now.” [00:35:00]

It is like I wouldn’t have done that before because Rich was asleep, and I should go to bed early. But I was like, “No, I’ll clean the apartment!” [Slaps lap] So I cleaned my place because I was like, “Oh, I’m leaving, so I want to come back to a clean apartment.” So then I cleaned, organized some stuff, and I didn’t go to bed ‘til midnight. And I was like, “Well, I can do that because I want to do that.” I was just like – those things – I know it seems small, but it is – feels really nice to have that.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Which is – I like that feeling. It is good. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It is kind of – it is like a new feeling.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But I get – I don’t know [inaudible at 00:35:40] had it so much, because I just always had maids [ph], I always had Rich. Like everything I decided was with someone else in mind all the time. It is like the first time I’m making decisions just because I want to do it.

THERAPIST: Well, and it was kind your – kind of your tendency to check in with people…

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: …And make sure that things were OK… [00:36:01]

CLIENT: Totally.

THERAPIST: …And even sort of, when you don’t have to, feeling kind of beholden to other people.

CLIENT: Right. No, absolutely. In my world, it was always like, “If everyone is cool, OK, then I’m cool.” It is not [chuckles] – yeah, I was always making sure every – I would be OK if everyone else was OK; and, if they weren’t, then I would have to figure out how to make it better. Whereas, now, it is like, oh, I just do it because I want to be cool. I want to be good about it.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I’m like, “This is what people have been doing. [Chuckles] That is really nice.” [Pauses] Although, now, I have this coworker who asked – I think wants to ask me out? Because now people know I’m s – and he is very nice but I don’t want to go out with him, and so I had my friend, who is, “This is what you should say –” so it is like getting advice on how to manage that sort of thing, because I’m like, “What do I say? I feel really bad. He is really nice.” [00:37:04]

She is like, “Yeah, this is what you’re going to have to deal with sometimes. Just be honest and say you like him [but] you’re not interested in him romantically, and just things like that.” So I’m like, “Oh, my God. That is whole other aspect of things that I didn’t [chuckles] even think about.” She is like, “You’re very nice, which is great, but,” she is like, “you kind of just have to tell people what you want and you don’t want.” [Pauses] So she was going to get me some book about it. [Chuckles] I forget what it is called. [Chuckles] I was like, “OK, I’ll read it.”

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you could do it without a book?

CLIENT: I haven’t done it yet, so I – I have to try, I guess.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Then maybe I can. Right now, I’m just like, “Should I tell him right now?” She is like, “No, if he tries again, just kind of say that.” I’m like, “OK.” [00:38:00]

[Pauses for nine seconds] It is like I’m nervous again [ph]. [Chuckles] I forgot about the whole thing that he asked [ph], but [traffic sounds] [inaudible at 00:38:16]. I haven’t dated since 30 [ph], like super – like once or twice before I met Rich.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So I was like 19. I look at it so different now. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, as an adult woman with a kid?

CLIENT: Yeah, [chuckles] totally. Totally.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So – but we’ll see how it goes. My friends are all very excited for me. And they’re like, “We’ll go out. We’ll have fun,” and I’m like, “OK,” which is nice. It is nice to have that, [pauses] because I have no idea what the world – what the dating world is like now.

THERAPIST: Mm. [00:39:00]

CLIENT: So, yeah, I’m doing good. Things are looking hopeful, exciting. [Pauses] I’m looking forward to my trips.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I get to keep my dog. I’m so excited about that, which is huge.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, that is great.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What kind of dog is it?

CLIENT: He is like a little terrier mix that we rescued on Petfinder.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: And he has a dog walker who has been – that has been great. And, now, with this money that I’ll be getting, I can definitely afford stuff for him and…

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: [Clucks] [pauses] I feel like having him – I was getting really sad thinking about not being able [ph] to keep him, because he just keeps me company when Brady is not around.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: He is always happy to see me.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And he growls if he hears a noise, which is nice [chuckles] sometimes. But it is like I feel like there is someone else watching out for me in the apartment when I fall asleep. [Chuckles] [00:40:04]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So – so that is good. I just need to start getting checks. I really need to start getting checks soon. That is the big thing. But whatever – the way I think about it is, if it is going to drag on, then I’ll just borrow money from my parents.

THERAPIST: Do you know what – is there a particular way in which it is framed, where you know – will know?

CLIENT: That is one of the other questions I asked today. I just was like, “Are these payments retroactive? And when can – what is the earliest that I can start receiving them?”

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: “Does it have to wait until I actually file something, or can he literally start giving me money now?” I think he can. My friend Angela – her ex is giving her money even though they haven’t filed their papers yet.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And he is technically paying for Brady’s school, so he is already doing that.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So, hopefully, when I get back, she’ll have some answers. [00:41:01]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So – and she has been really helpful, which is good.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. That is great.

CLIENT: Yeah. I’m glad we did it that way, through mediation rather than some war.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Well, we really need to stop and…

CLIENT: OK.

THERAPIST: …But I’m glad things…

CLIENT: Yeah!

THERAPIST: …Are working out for you.

CLIENT: It was a good session today. It wasn’t all crazy – not crazy, just sad. I have a check for you because I owe you $5,000.

THERAPIST: You don’t owe me $5,000.

CLIENT: [Laughs] I owe you a lot.

THERAPIST: [Chuckles]

CLIENT: I owe you a lot of money. [Pauses]

THERAPIST: OK, it is not $5,000.

CLIENT: [Laughs]

THERAPIST: I actually don’t – if you have a statement – I have no idea what it is.

CLIENT: I don’t have a statement. I think I…

THERAPIST: Do you want me to look it up?

CLIENT: I wasn’t going to pay the full amount; I was going to pay – can I pay $250 today?

THERAPIST: That is f – well, yeah.

CLIENT: OK.

THERAPIST: So we’ll let – that is fine, because I just have to figure out…

CLIENT: Yeah, I owe for – I think I paid for December.

THERAPIST: You definitely paid December. So far, we’ll – March hasn’t even gone out yet, so it is just January and February. [00:42:05]

CLIENT: Yeah. So I think, in January, I had four sessions at $195, and then, in February, maybe I had…

THERAPIST: I think it was just like two, probably – two sessions.

CLIENT: Two in February, two in a month?

THERAPIST: That – that is fine. What I’ll do is – actually, the statements are going – will go out in the next couple of days, so we’ll just make sure to put that in your balance.

CLIENT: OK.

THERAPIST: [Pauses] Well, whatever it is, I’ll – I’ll just make sure that Janine [ph]…

CLIENT: Yeah. And once I get some money, I should be – I will be able to catch up.

THERAPIST: OK, that is fine. As I – as we talked about before, that is totally fine…

CLIENT: Thank you. [Pauses] OK.

THERAPIST: …That you’re – I – I don’t know how much you owe but [chuckles]…

CLIENT: I’ll look at the statement. [Chuckles]

THERAPIST: OK, great.

CLIENT: Thank you so much.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: So I’ll see you in two weeks, then? [00:43:02]

THERAPIST: In two weeks, then, so that is – let me just double-check.

CLIENT: And the time we have – 11:30 – is fine; it was just that, today, I had to have that appoint – that phone call at work at 12:30.

THERAPIST: OK. [Pauses] Yeah, I – sometimes, I have flexibility around this time, so I’m happy to accommodate when I can.

CLIENT: OK.

THERAPIST: Let me just make sure that I have you down.

CLIENT: Oh, wait – we’ll fix that. That is…

THERAPIST: Well, you had said that you’re…

CLIENT: Oh, no, I’m here. Yeah, I’m here that Wednesday because I don’t fly up ‘til Thursday, the twenty-fourth.

THERAPIST: It is the sixteenth, then – is the next session. Today is the second, and so the sixteenth…

CLIENT: Oh, yeah, I’m here. I’m sorry, yes.

THERAPIST: OK.

CLIENT: OK.

THERAPIST: Great.

CLIENT: Well, thank you.

THERAPIST: OK, I’ll see you in two weeks.

CLIENT: Take care.

THERAPIST: Take care. All right. Bye.

END TRANSCRIPT