TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

(Dialogue begins at 00:03:05)

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in.

CLIENT: Hi. Sorry I’m late.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:03:08) the office. How are you?

CLIENT: Good. Thank you. It’s snowing again. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Is it snowing right now?

CLIENT: No, it’s just ice cold outside.

THERAPIST: It is cold.

CLIENT: To wake up and see snow in April is like really mean.

THERAPIST: How are things?

CLIENT: Things are good. I think so. [What is it?] (ph) I haven’t (ph) seen you in two weeks?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, Rich and I are slowly getting to some sort of an agreement. We’re still trying to finalize the numbers because now that I’ve requested for child support, there is like a different calculation that they have to do. So the amount actually ended up being a little bit less.

They do a calculation where, how much would Rich give me if I gave full time and then they do the calculation how much would I give Rich if he had gave full time, and then they take the difference. So, it’s a couple hundred dollars less than I was expecting.

And he hasn’t said no to child support. He understands why I need it. But he’s kind of like, “Well, I can’t give you child support and also pay for his school because that’s a lot.” And I said, “Well, the day care is the most expensive and that’s only for another year.” [00:04:36]

So I’m trying to be like, “Okay then, how about you give me more… if you give me more child support. Let’s set the child support higher. And then for this next year, I’ll pay for half of Brady’s day care. And then when the daycare’s done, then I still have that larger amount. I think he’s still trying to figure that out.

I mean, he’s kind of like, “Well I can’t afford that.” And I’m like, “But you can, because you make a lot more money and your parents give you money.” I can’t afford what I’m doing right now, basically. And he’s not mad or… he kind of is like, “Okay.” He’s much calmer. Our relationship has taken a turn for sure. I think in the beginning he was really angry and I was really upset that he was so angry. [00:05:35]

But lately, when what was it? Sunday he came to pick up Brady and he made a comment like, “Oh, I’m sore. I must have run into something last night and I don’t remember.” As if saying like, he went out the night before. And he was just kind of joking and I had fallen when I was in Denver, so I was like, “Oh yeah. I have a huge bruise from Denver.” And we were both just kind of like laughing.

I’m glad to see him going out and doing stuff. I don’t know what he’s doing necessarily, but I’m glad that he’s… I don’t know if that’s helping him, because he seems a lot more… I haven’t seen really anger or he hasn’t said anything angry towards me in a while. It definitely makes things easier for me. It definitely makes it easier for me to be like, “No. I want this.” Because when he was angry, I would be like, “Oh, okay. You can have whatever you want.” Because I don’t like it when people are angry at me. [00:06:37]

THERAPIST: You’re more focused on appeasing him.

CLIENT: Right. Right. Since he’s kind of calm. (inaudible at 00:06:47) he’s nice now. It’s almost easier for me to be like, “No. I need this much money. I need you to give me this much money.” And like we had conversation; he called me on Monday and was like, “You know, it’s a lot of money you’re asking me to pay. You know, if it’s $1,500 for day care and then you’re asking for $1,300 for child support, it’s over half of what I’m bringing home.” And he’s like, “I still have to pay for everything else.” And I was like, “I understand. We can figure something out.”

But I said, “You know, you have to understand I don’t have enough money to sustain what I’m doing right now.” Meaning, just an apartment. I said, “I can’t get a roommate because I have Brady.” And I said, “I don’t make that much. And I eventually have to get a 2 bedroom place. You know, sometime next year, I would imagine. I can’t have Brady sleeping in my room forever.” And he’s like, “No. You don’t have to explain. Like, I know.” So he gets it. He’s just like, “I just also need to have enough money too. You know?” [00:07:51]

And we talk. We’re very fine about it. We’re not like angry or upset. And he’s been good. Easter is this Sunday so he would normally have Brady until 5 p.m. But he’s like, “You know, I’ll drop him off at 11 a.m. That way, you can take him to breakfast or brunch and then give him a basket and you have more of a day with him for Easter.” So I thought that was nice that he offered that.

So, I feel like we’re very close to finalizing things. It’s just like we’re not there yet. I’m glad he’s not completely like, “No. I’m not going to give you anything.” Not that I was really worried, because I think he understands that I don’t have enough money. He knows I’m not like going on vacations and spending money like a maniac or anything like that. It’s literally just to pay bills and be able to buy Brady some clothes. [00:08:51]

Brady and I are going to Richmond next week to visit my family and I don’t have shorts and t-shirts for him and I’m like, “I don’t know. I mean I can go to the Old Navy outlet but I might actually just go home and see if my parents will buy clothes (laughter) for him.” Because I just don’t want to be left without any kind of cushion in my bank account, you know? Because I don’t know when Rich will start giving me a check. And I did request retroactive payments because it’s been almost three months and I haven’t gotten anything except for his share of the insurance, his health insurance that I pay for, basically every month. So I’m feeling positive that we’re getting close and I’m feeling a lot better about our relationship together. [00:09:45]

We’re going to sign up Brady for soccer so we can both go, if we want to. My best friend is in town this weekend with her kids so on Saturday morning she said, “Oh, Rich is going to come over to see the kids, because I had said I was going to come over with Brady. And she’s like, “Is that okay?” And I’m like, “Yeah, that’s fine. I’ll just check with him.” And she’s like, “Okay. As long as you guys are fine with it.” And so I just texted him and said, “Oh, I hear you’re going to see ...” I didn’t say “Can we?” I said, “Brady and I were going to go. Do you mind? Is that a problem?” And he’s like “No. That’s fine.”

And we were there and we were fine and amicable. You can tell Brady was very happy to see us both because he kept sitting between us and putting his hand on each of our legs. He’d tell us to sit close to each other. He’s like “You guys sit close to each other.” You know? Which we did and [it was] (ph) fine. And Brady was fine. When we left he was like, “It was nice to see Daddy for a few minutes.” And then we had our day. [00:10:47]

And my friend was like, “Wow. You wouldn’t even think you guys were going through a divorce. (Chuckles) You’re so like nice to each other.” And I was like, “Well, I mean…I think we kind of know, I mean I feel like Rich is kind of (inaudible at 00:11:01). I mean, he’s still going to be upset, but what good is it to be furious and angry, I guess?”

So that’s good. I feel like that’s the step in the right direction. And I said to my friend, I said, “Overall, everything is like really good.” And I said, “The only thing is money. That’s like the only thing that’s bothering me.” And going home I’d have to confront my mom. Not confront, but talk to my mom about stuff.

But I said, “That’s really the only thing that I think about every day. It stresses me out a little bit.” And so she was like, “Well, you know…” — we always use this white board and we write quotes that we think are really good (chuckles) — and she said something like, “If your only problem is money, then you don’t really have problems,” or something like that. She was just like, “It’s good that everything else is good.” Because she was like, “You know, you have a job. Rich will give you money.” So she was like, “It’s good that everything else is going well.” [00:12:09]

And it is. I came home the other day, when I came back from my business trip. I was like, “Oh, I’m so glad to be home.” It was nice to come home. And I like my apartment. My friend, when she was here, her siblings came over one night. I had Brady, so he was asleep in my room (ph), so they came over and brought pizza and ice-cream and we were hanging out. And they were like, “Is that a bookcase that you haven’t built?” It had been sitting there and it was huge and I hadn’t been able to build it by myself.

So (inaudible at 00:12:44) has two brothers, so they were like, “We’re going to build it tonight.” So they built my bookcase, they brought me a TV stand, and then her sister unpacked the last two boxes I had of books, and she put them away and she was like, “There. You’re officially unpacked.” And my place just looked so much better because (laughter) it had this big nice bookcase.

And then my parents told me, because I was going to go to IKEA Saturday and I don’t even know how I was going to buy any of it, but my parents were like, “ Just wait and when you come to Richmond we’ll go to IKEA and we’ll order your dining table and have it just shipped to your place, and your desk. We’ll order everything else that you need,” which was nice of them to offer. [00:13:27]

And that and then I’ll be done. My apartment [will be] (ph) pretty good to go. I like living there a lot. It’s nice. It’s convenient and I don’t know; it’s definitely feeling like home. I like it a lot. And being alone is totally fine. Like tonight. I tend to plan a lot of stuff when I don’t have Brady, so I’ve been out like the past two nights, three nights? So tonight, I’m like, “I can’t wait. I’m just going to go home. Watch a TV show. Do some laundry. I’m actually looking forward to just going home and being home. I feel like that’s a good sign, for sure. And yeah, friends have been great. Everything is good, I think. [00:14:18]

So I just have this last piece that needs to get resolved. I think once I have the exact number… once we’re like, “Okay. We’re going to get $1,300.” If we come to a compromise or something, then that’ll be a relief. I just feel like that’s the thing that I’m still unsure about, because money just (inaudible at 00:14:42) I don’t let it stress me out, which is kind of a problem sometimes because I feel like I should be better about it. Because I hate dealing with it. But I have to deal with it. I have to be on top of that.

THERAPIST: Do you think you have difficulty in part just because of your history with your parents [fighting about that stuff]? (ph)

CLIENT: Yeah. Totally. Totally. I think I tend to ignore it. I mean, I should be more focused on my… I have a budget and I have a spreadsheet for my bills and stuff, but I tend to just —”Oh, right I don’t have that much money.” And I then I just don’t even think about because I don’t want to be so upset and so stressed out about it the way I was growing up all the time. I mean it’s weird because I think, “Oh, shit. I’m on my own.” So I really have to be kind of aware of it. I have to kind of not be so afraid to deal with it, because I could easily run out of money. And I have Brady to take care of. [00:15:53]

I mean Rich is supposed to give me quite a bit of money in regards to the equity and the credit card debt and stuff. So it’s just a matter of when he’ll get that to me. I don’t know how long. I mean, I had to call our credit card and explain what was going on because they were calling. Not calling. They e-mailed me kind of like (chuckles), “Is everything okay?” And I just was like, “I’m going to have the money. It’s just that I don’t have it now.”

I’ve had such good credit up until, literally, like I left. And my credit just, I’m sure, has tanked because I haven’t been able to make payments on things. Well particularly just that one card I haven’t been able to pay. Everything else I pretty much have. And you. Still have to pay you (chuckles). [00:16:49]

But they were very nice about it. They were like, “Sounds like you’re going to get money coming, so we made a note of it. Whenever you can get us just something, get us something. If for some reason you don’t get any of that money, we can set you up on a plan to pay it off.” But I mean, I doubt I’ll need to do that. But I let Rich know that. I was like, “I had to call the credit card company because they’re wondering ‘What the hell is going on?’“ And he was like, “Okay.” I mean, he knows it’s all under my name and none of it is under his name so his credit is perfect. He’s totally fine from all of this. I’m the one kind of getting a little…

THERAPIST: What, [is it] (ph) just happened to be this credit card is under your name?

CLIENT: He never got any credit cards under his name, because I just had them, so if we went out or did something… He had like a work credit card that he would use for travel. But his company would pay it off right away. But Rich always just, I mean, he always had a lot of money so he never really had to charge anything unless we were going on a trip or something where we would charge something big, I would just be the one to put it on my credit card. [00:18:08]

THERAPIST: It’s unusual for someone not to have any credit cards.

CLIENT: I know. I used to tell him. I would be like, “You know, you should probably get one to build your credit.” He’s like, “Well, I have the work one.” So that’s what he would use. So anything us related is all under my name. And there’s a gas one that, I think we owe like $300, so he was like, “Let’s just hold (ph) that one and finish it up.” But there’s one that’s the biggest one. That’s where we’ve had debt on it for many years. And that’s the one we were deciding whether he’ll pay half or the whole thing. He said whole thing, if I don’t ask for alimony; he’ll pay the whole credit card bill. [00:18:59]

But then, still, he has to refinance the condo to get the money to give that to me, which is weird because I mean, I get why he has to do that, but his parents have a ton—I know it’s weird for me to be like, “Oh, he should ask his parents for that money.” I think we have a phone call with the mediator; I’m going to have to be like, “You have to start giving me something because it’s not going to work for me to wait six months or whatever to get $30,000 from you. Give me like something every month towards that amount. Or ask your parents to, can you borrow some of it and then pay them back when you get the refinance done?” It’s just, I feel like it’s kind of hard for me to wait that long to get any money. Hoping the child support will be sooner, but that larger amount I feel like, just to have something to start paying off the credit card and then just to have something in savings in case… [00:20:06]

Like my car. The shop was saying I need new brakes and I’m like, “Well, I’m going to have to wait until (chuckles) I have money to put brakes in. I mean the brake light hasn’t come on and it’s not making any sounds, but I eventually have to get new brakes on my car. If he could give me something, I can start doing those things and taking care of those things, you know?

That’s going to just be a bigger conversation when we have the phone call and hoping we can schedule it this week or definitely before I leave for Richmond. And I said to him on the phone on Monday, I said, “I am not trying to bleed you dry. I am not trying to take all your money.” Because I said, “I understand and respect that you work long hours and you work really hard and you deserve to enjoy your money.” But I said, “Having Brady, I need to live in a certain kind of place and I don’t make as much as you do. So I do need you to give me some money because I can’t afford to get him things. I don’t have money to do things for him.” If I’m having to pay bills and rent—I mean, rent is actually the biggest problem. It’s just the most expensive thing I do, is rent. And he was kind of like, “Yeah. No, I know.” But he was kind of like, “But you also have to understand that I have to have enough money too.” [00:21:37]

So, it’s kind of a little bit of a back-and-forth. So that’s not like I’m not going to get child support; it’s a matter of how much I’m going to get. So, the discussion now is, “Well, okay. If you want to give me $900 or $1,000 a month, well, and you’re asking me to pay for half of the day care, which is $850, I’m still in the same place. Because right now, he’s paying for day care. He’s paid it the past two months. My share at the time was $630 because he was having me pay 35% of the day care. But now he’s saying if he gives me child support I should pay half, which is $850. I’m like, “Well, if you’re going to give me barely any child support and then I’m paying for day care, I’m still not getting any money (chuckles). I’m still kind of like where I’m at. So, that doesn’t work.” [00:22:29]

THERAPIST: When your parents fought about money, what would they fight about?

CLIENT: Mainly they would fight about the fact that my dad is really cheap or frugal, I guess you could say.

THERAPIST: Depending on who you ask?

CLIENT: I know.(Laughter) My mom, on the other hand, was really bad with money in the sense that if we had it, if we had any, she would just like… my mom was good and she thought we should go to private school. I mean, my parents were very poor and did not make a lot of money. I think my dad made like $30,000 a year and my mom probably made less than that.

THERAPIST: What did they do for work?

CLIENT: My dad is a janitor, and then my mom, she was a receptionist in an office. But she was never certified. I mean, she got some certification, but it wasn’t like she was some high paid nurse or anything like that. So, my dad would get frustrated because she had us all go to private school, which was great. Because she was very big on our education, where my dad was like, “They should just go to public school.” But my mom was like, “No. They should go to private school.” [00:23:45]

And so he was always upset that we didn’t have enough money for things because we were always in debt. A lot of times she pawned a lot of jewelry. My dad would have to ask friends to borrow money to pay for our tuition sometimes. So she expected us to have these things, but he was like, “We don’t have enough money to do it.”

So he was always like the realist, kind of being like, “I know you want them to all of them to go to private school, but we don’t have enough money.” And she was like, “We’ve got to do whatever we can to send them to private school.” So, it was always that argument about…so it was about us in general, but it was mostly between them. How he would say, “She didn’t know how to reserve (ph) money.” I mean, she’s never been very good about it.

I tend to have her tendencies a little bit where, “Oh, there’s some money there. Let’s buy someone a…” She’s very generous. It’s not like she would even buy herself things. It was like, “Well, I’ll get the kids something or let’s get someone (inaudible at 00:24:50).” It was never for her. It was for us that she would—if my brother wanted a certain kind of bike…I mean, should he have gotten it? No. But my mom was like, “We’ll figure out a way and I’ll get it for you,” because she never wanted us to not have things, I guess.

And my dad was like, “What the hell is going on (laughter)?” And it was tough because my dad was the one placed in the position of having to ask friends for money, pay them back, and then my dad, along with his job, he would do lawncare work on the side to make more money to pay for stuff. I mean, our tuitions were the biggest thing that we were all on, that each school gave us some kind of assistance so we didn’t pay the full tuition, but it was still quite a bit. So as soon as we went to college, my parents didn’t really pay for us because we all got financial aid, grants, and school loans. [00:25:55]

So, I mean, my parents haven’t really given me money since I was like, maybe 18? And even with all of this, they’ve offered to buy me the furniture, which is nice, but they haven’t like said, “Do you need any money?” And I haven’t asked. I mean, they haven’t asked me my finances and I haven’t really told them. I mean, I’ll talk to them about it next week, but I didn’t want to stress them out more. Because I know they already are stressed out, without doing…

I’ve asked my brothers for money and they’re kind of like, “Well…” They’re both kind of tight. But they’re like, “We can find a way to get it if you really need it.” Right now I’m kind of, “Well, why don’t you just wait. I may not. But if I do, I’ll let you know.” Because I can always pay them back once I get the money from Rich. I just may need it in the interim. Like a $1,000 or something. So, yeah. I think I’ll talk to them about it more next week. They’ll only get stressed if I tell them I don’t have enough money. They’ll freak out. They freak out about it. [00:27:03]

THERAPIST: Are they still in the same financial position they were when you were growing up?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, my mom hasn’t worked now…I mean, she’s 72? So she hasn’t worked for a few years. My dad still works, but he doesn’t make that much. And I don’t know how much they have in debt. They’re still paying off the house. I don’t know how they’re going to retire, quite honestly. They don’t have very much money now. I mean, they have a house and they can… So it’s hard for me to ask them for money because I know they don’t have it. If I knew they were fine and can afford to give it to me, but that’s why I haven’t said anything to them because they need it themselves.

And they were nice enough…I mean, they bought our plane tickets to go down. For Brady and I. But I know that my dad put that on credit card. It’s not like he (inaudible at 00:28:05) or anything. It’s tough. I make more than my dad, so I don’t want to be like, “Dad, give me money. I make more than you.” (Laughter) But I’m sure if I was like, “Can you buy Brady some clothes?” They totally would do that while we’re there. That would be helpful. (Pause) I think it’s easier to ask when you’re saying it’s for him, not for me. You know? That’s kind of how it works with Rich too.

THERAPIST: Well, and with your mom.

CLIENT: Huh?

THERAPIST: Your mom was like that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So… (pause) Now I keep saying that I need to get to May. I think that’s what I said when I started. I just need to get to May. And May is here. And I think I’m doing all right. So now I’m saying I need to get to September. And hopefully all the finances and stuff will be…I think it’ll totally be settled by then. I imagine, but… [00:29:17]

THERAPIST: Did your mother want to marry someone who made more money?

CLIENT: She never said that. She never specifically said that. She’s just really bad about… when she has it, she won’t keep it. She won’t like, “Let’s put this in savings.” She’ll be like, “I just got a bonus at work. Let’s go buy your brother the thing he’s been wanting.” That’s kind of how she’s always been. And she’s never stressed about money. She and I are very similar in that we kind of think about it, but we don’t let it ruin our day. Where my dad would just be like… he’s still (inaudible at 00:30:03), “Oh, my God.”

It’s less now because they’re not paying for the three of us to do anything. So now they just have money for the two of them. My mom doesn’t work and she kind of stays at home. She’s not doing much so it’s not like they’re not spending a lot of money. But my dad will just get so stressed out and so furious. I mean, he just couldn’t handle the stress of not having enough money.

But at the same time, my dad was never one to—and this is what my mom would say to him. She was always like (chuckles), “Well, then go look for a better job that makes more money.” And he’s like, “You’re crazy.” My dad has been in the same job at the same place forever. Benefits are crappy. They pay him nothing and he’s just not the type of person to be like, “I’m not going to go look for better job.” And I don’t know if that’s because he’s an immigrant to this country and is just kind of like, “I got this job. I’m just glad I have a job.” But he never would make an effort to try even to go find a place that would pay him more. And even as I got older, I would talk to him and be like, “Dad, you know, you could probably find a job that pays you $10,000 more or $15,000 more.” And it just wouldn’t… He’s happy to stay. He would be like, “No. I’m just going to stay as it is.” [00:31:26]

THERAPIST: How old was he when he moved here?

CLIENT: He moved here in 1975, so he was 23? My mom was 27? She’s older than him.

THERAPIST: They came here together?

CLIENT: No. She came here by herself first to meet a friend in DC. They kind of had dated a little bit and then she moved because she wanted to come to the US, and then he came kind of very soon after and then found her in DC. And then they got married in DC.

So that’s always been the issue. My mom was like, “Just go get a better job.” And he’s like, “I’m not doing anything.” So she gets frustrated with him and like, “You’re in this crappy job.” It’s always this back and forth. Back and forth. [00:32:19]

It’ll be great to go home. (Laughs) I’m actually excited to go home. It’ll be nice because I know my mom will make me food. It’ll be nice to have someone take care of me for a little bit. She’ll probably harass me and upset me, but she’ll also feed me and my brothers are both going to be there, which is really nice. And my brother, and my sister-in-law is wonderful. And she’s divorced so I feel like she’ll be a good person to talk to. And a couple of my cousins have reached out to me and they’re kind of like, “We heard what’s going on. We can’t wait to see you.”

So I think it’ll be nice to just go home for a little bit, because I’ve been out but what (ph) I’ve been with friends, which is great, but it’ll be nice for them to… And they’ll want to see Brady and they’ll totally entertain him too and he’ll be happy to see them. I’ll get to be with Brady for a while too, so I think it’ll be a really nice trip. And Brady is looking forward to it. He’s very excited to go. [00:33:22]

It’s just the initial conversation with my parents that I have to endure, I guess. I’m trying to figure out how much do I endure until I… What’s fair to say like, “Okay, we’re not going to talk about it anymore?” Or “Okay, that’s it. You can’t say that.”

THERAPIST: Because they’re going to complain. Because you anticipate they’re going to complain?

CLIENT: Yeah. I think they’re going to keep asking, “Why and why and why?” And even though I give an answer, they’re not going to understand. And they’re going to be like, “Do you understand what this is doing to Brady?” That’s like a big thing. And then they’re going to be like, “Are you sure you can’t make it work?” They’re going to keep asking like that. I think they’re going to think that there’s an opportunity to keep getting back together and I have to be like, “There isn’t.” We’re both kind of… I mean, Rich doesn’t want to get back together and I don’t so… They just need to kind of accept that. And it’s hard because they’re not here, so they don’t see how things are going. So they just kind of hear whatever they hear from me. (Pause) [00:34:40]

While I was actually on my business trip, I had texted Rich and it was a three hour time difference, so I said, “Oh, can I talk to Brady in a few minutes? It’s 4 p.m. here.” So 7 p.m. here. And he said, “Oh, I’m still at work. My mom has him.” And I haven’t at all dealt with his mother since the last time she told me to basically never talk to her again. So I said, “Okay. Well, thanks for letting me know.” And that was all that I said. And he’s like, “Well, do you want her to call you? Like put him on the video chat for you?” And I’m like, “If she doesn’t mind, that would be nice.”

She was very nice. She was like, “Hey Brady, mommy is on the phone. Can you tell her what you did today? How’s mommy’s trip going?” I’m like, “It’s going well.” So she seemed very normal about it on the phone. She wasn’t like… and I don’t think she would be because Brady is in the room. But it was okay and then I was just like, “(inaudible at 00:35:42) thank you for calling.” And she was like, “Of course. Have a good trip.” And so, I don’t know. Maybe Rich’s change of attitude is kind of helping them a little bit. Because maybe they see him being better. I don’t know. He still hasn’t gone to therapy. He won’t go. I think he should, but…

THERAPIST: Do you?

CLIENT: Just to like… I don’t know. Work his feelings out. But maybe he’s doing all right. I don’t know. He seems to go out a lot, which is good.

THERAPIST: This is surprising to you?

CLIENT: Yes. Because he never did. He hardly did with me. Like hardly. So, it’s like, “Wow. That’s great!” That’s good that he’s doing that. I hope he’s met someone. That would be great if he has some like… You know, I’ll be thrilled when he has a nice girl friend. Then I’m like, “Oh wait, they have to meet Brady.” And then I was like, “Oh, it’s fine.” But it’d be nice to see him happy with someone. I think that would be a good thing for him. But he seems to be enjoying time and going out with friends or whoever. [00:37:01]

THERAPIST: It seems like a big change. You describe him as being kind of very homebody.

CLIENT: He would never go out, unless I was like, “We have plans to go do something.” So it’s weird to be like, “Oh, he’s going out on his own.” Like he’s making plans with people, because he would hardly ever do. He would make plans with his guy friends or like, “Hey, we’re all going out for a beer.” And they would e-mail him and he’s like, “All right. I’m going to go.” But it’s not like he would be like, “Hey everyone! Let’s all go get dinner.” He’s not like that all. But maybe this has kind of forced him to be because he doesn’t want to sit at home alone. It’s probably easier to sit at home with me. But even then, some of the times, I wasn’t even home. [00:37:48]

THERAPIST: A lot has changed in a very fairly short period of time.

CLIENT: I know. It’s weird. It’s so bizarre. It’s really bizarre. Yeah, because I’m like, “It’s only April.” But it feels like it’s been a long time, but it hasn’t really been that long of a time. It’s only been 2 ½ months since I moved out. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if it’s like—I know it’s a good thing for me. I’m like, “I wonder if it’s a good thing for him?” I wouldn’t really ask him that, but… (chuckles)

But today, my son, they do an annual little art gallery at my son’s school and I realized it was today and I texted Rich. I said, “Oh, the art gallery is today.” And Rich has him this week. I said, “What time are you guys going to be there, because I’d like to try to go. I just don’t know how early I can leave work.” And he’s like, “Well, we’ll be there at 5 p.m., so just let us know and we’ll wait.” And I said, “Okay.” So he’s very nice about it. He’s like, “I’ll keep you posted.” (inaudible at 00:38:50)

So, I think for the sake of our son we’ve both been very good about it. We haven’t hated on each other too much. I mean he hated on me a little bit in the beginning for sure. I think he realized the damage it was doing because I was kind of getting very upset. I actually said to him in the mediation, “I am so careful about you knowing anything about me because of how you tell people things.”

THERAPIST: You think that got through to him?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Now I’m a little bit more communicative. It’s like, “Oh, I’m at a movie tonight so I’ll try calling…” I’ll be more about what I’m doing, where before I just wouldn’t even say anything. So I think that definitely may have been like, “Oh, if I keep doing this she’s just going to basically say ‘hello’ and ‘bye’ and leave it at that.” And he doesn’t seem to want that kind of relationship. [00:40:01]

I mean, the other night I was actually in a movie and he called and I couldn’t get up to take the call and it was Brady saying goodnight. I think about the time it ended and I got home, it was like 11 p.m. and Rich is usually in bed at 9:30 p.m. So the next morning early Rich was like, “I don’t mean to pry. I just want to make sure you’re okay because we tried calling you and I didn’t hear from you.” And I just said, “Oh, I was at a movie. I couldn’t get the call.” And he was like, “Okay. You don’t have to tell me where you were. I just want to make sure you’re okay.” I mean, I guess it’s nice. Right? (Laughing)

THERAPIST: You guess?

CLIENT: No. It is nice of him.

THERAPIST: Are you suspicious? [00:40:51]

CLIENT: No. No, I’m not. I probably would have been a few weeks ago. (Pause) Because when we Face Time he can see that I’m not home sometimes and before he would be like, “Where are you?” And I would just be like, “I’m out having dinner,” or something. And then now he just doesn’t ask if I’m outside or in some loud place or something. And I don’t know if that’s because he’s going out too, or he’ll text and say, “Oh, can I talk to Brady now because I have to go out soon.” And I’m just like, “Oh, okay. Sure.” And it would be nice to keep it this way and amicable and nice.

I mean, he’s actually very friendly to hang out. Like when we hang out it’s friendly, which I like. I have no desire to ever be with him again, but hanging out with him is pleasant at this point, whereas in the beginning it was really awkward and stressful. And that was the other thing in mediation, I was like, “I don’t know if we should have dinner every week because it’s very stressful and I don’t want to do that if it’s stressful and he was like, “Oh.” He was surprised that I said that. (Pause) I’m glad we’re discussing money now versus a month and a half ago. I feel like we’re both at a better place to talk about the money part of it. [00:42:38]

THERAPIST: Sounds like things have settled down a lot.

CLIENT: Yeah. They have, which is good. And I think for him, the best thing has been seeing Brady. I think his biggest concern was how Brady was going to react to all of this and what we were doing to him. And I think having seen that Brady is just kind of rolling with it has helped him to… I mean, it’s helped me tremendously, but it has definitely helped him be less stressed maybe about it all? (Pause) May is almost here. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: It’s right around the corner [00:43:24]

CLIENT: I know (laughs). It’ll be good (ph). Mother’s Day I’m going to go to my best friend in DC. I’m taking Brady with me for the weekend. She’s like, “Come. Let’s have Mother’s Day together.” Because Mother’s Day I used to always spend it with my mother-in-law too so it would be kind of a bigger thing. And this year I was just kind of like, “Oh, it’s just going to be me and Brady. I guess we’ve got to figure out what to do.” And she was like, “Come to DC. Come to see us. We can all go out. My mother is here.” And I’m very good friends with her mom and she has two little kids so she was like, “We’ll all hang out for the weekend and have a good Mother’s Day weekend.” [So it’s] (ph) like, “Oh, that’s perfect. That’ll be great.” So I’ll do that. That’ll be fun.

THERAPIST: [It’ll] (ph) be your first time as a mom, being single. [00:44:11]

CLIENT: I know. It’s weird to be like, “I’m a single mom?” It sounds so weird (laughs). And it’s funny because now I’ve been going out and I get approached by guys, which is nice. I’m like, “Oh, people still find me attractive.” Then I have to be like, “Well, I have a son and 35.” A lot of them tend to, which is nice, they tend to think I’m younger, which is nice, but it’s weird to then be like, “Oh, that’s great. Yeah, that’s awesome.” Like they don’t care? I just assumed that guys are freaked out by that.

THERAPIST: Men (ph) your age or, you know, probably less so.

CLIENT: Right, right. That’s true.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:44:56) appropriate. Maybe a 25 year old would be, but… maybe not. I don’t know.

CLIENT: Well, one of them was a 25-year-old. I was like, “I have a son and I’m getting divorced.” He was like, “Oh. Okay. I was wondering how you were single. It doesn’t make sense.” I was like, “Well, that’s very nice of you to say (laughs).” And he’s like, “Well, that’s great.” And then he asked me about my son.

THERAPIST: Well, we are actually (inaudible at 00:45:20] we are out of time for today. So I will see you then in two weeks.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: So I will see you then in two weeks.

CLIENT: Yes. Actually, you know what? I’m going to still be in Richmond. So I could e-mail you because I come back on the 30th, I think.

THERAPIST: Yeah, let me just… because I have you on my schedule now as every other week. But you’re not going to be here.

CLIENT: On that Wednesday. I’m back May 1st from my trip. So I think my next appointment would have been April 30th, but I fly back that day from Richmond.

THERAPIST: Okay, I see. We could find another time that week or we could meet the 7th and the 14th if you wanted to go for, I don’t know, for three (inaudible at 00:46:09)

CLIENT: Yeah, we could do that.

THERAPIST: Do you want to do that?

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s fine. Because I’ll probably be super busy at work anyway that Thursday and Friday catching up from being gone.

THERAPIST: Okay. Then I’m going to take you out for the 30th and put you in for the 7th. So I’m not going to see you for 3 weeks then, but then I’ll see you the following week.

CLIENT: Okay. On the 7th at 11:30?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Okay. Great. And then in the meantime, I didn’t bring a check today but…

THERAPIST: It’s okay.

CLIENT: I can put one in the mail. Do I have your address actually?

THERAPIST: It’s at the footer of my…

CLIENT: The invoice?

THERAPIST: At the footer of my e-mails.

CLIENT: Oh, okay.

THERAPIST: [I’m sure if] (ph) you want to that that’s fine.

CLIENT: Okay. Great.

(Crosstalk)

(Unable to identify speakers 00:46:49 – 00:46:54)

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