TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: How are you?

CLIENT: Well, I am fine. I am…

THERAPIST: What is happening? It’s been six weeks.

CLIENT: Forever. I mean, my God. It’s been so long. And then we had to change the appointment, I said no. (chuckling) I was looking forward to coming to see you.

THERAPIST: Yea, I was looking forward to you coming. But I understand. It’s not a big deal.

CLIENT: Yea. And I was like, oh my God. I can’t get out. And I still have not gotten my medication and stuff. And I said, well, OK. But Walmart was nice enough. They gave me complimentary until my doctor gets back from vacation which is tomorrow. Thank you, Lord. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: Yea, goodness. What is this medication for, Yvette?

CLIENT: Hypertension.

THERAPIST: Well, you need that.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Seriously. You can’t even be without that for a day.

CLIENT: And I’m like, oh my God. And the bottle that I had, it said that I had a refill left on there. But I said, well, maybe what I did was last time I got my medication I put… I had a few left. Maybe I put the… poured the wrong one in the wrong bottle.

THERAPIST: In the wrong bottle. [00:01:00]

CLIENT: Yea. I said, oh, because…

THERAPIST: You should’ve had that on the computer, though.

CLIENT: They did. So when I went to get the refill, they said, oh, you don’t have any more refills left. So we need a new prescription from the doctor. And my doctor was on vacation because I didn’t have any appointments or anything.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I said, oh my goodness because I’m always on it. And I always get it before I run out and stuff but… so anyway.

THERAPIST: So catch me up. What’s been happening?

CLIENT: OK, what’s been happening? (pause) Six weeks ago, right?

THERAPIST: It’s about six weeks ago.

CLIENT: (chuckling) (pause) Let’s see, what’s new? (pause) I don’t know. It’s like everything is still… you know what I’m saying? I’m trying to think what I did. I think I lost a few inches. I cut out the pork and the red meat. Well, OK, a little bit. And I’ve just been doing chicken, fish and turkey. [00:02:01] And I noticed, oh, I’m getting in some clothes I couldn’t get in. So I’m feeling really good about that.

THERAPIST: Now is that the goal for you? Are you wanting to lose weight?

CLIENT: Yes. I want to lose weight. And I got an online class for the first time. I don’t like it. (chuckling) I’m not computer friendly so… but it’s coming along. I noticed that when I’m tired, I really shouldn’t write. Because when I go back and look at what I’ve written, it’s not good. So I mean I kind of learned that about myself. (chuckling) I just spoke with my advisor and I found out that I’m on the right track with everything. So that’s good.

THERAPIST: Explain. What do you mean?

CLIENT: With the classes.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: As far as like graduation and everything and… because I have the same… I saw her, what, one time since I started. [00:03:00] And I remember, she said I have three electives because I was a little worried because I signed up for two minors. And then I said, “Lorelai, I really…” Because now I’m looking and I’m beginning to see all these different and I said, well, if I have three electives, I’m going to try this and try that. And so I’ve been doing it. So now I have two communications classes one addiction studies and one criminal justice.

THERAPIST: Four classes.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And you’re done.

CLIENT: No. (laughing)

THERAPIST: OK. (laughing)

CLIENT: (laughing) No, I won’t be finishing till next year, December.

THERAPIST: OK, fine. So about a year from this December.

CLIENT: Yes, and over the summer, nothing spectacular. It’s like the same old, same old. Just go to work. Take care of my granddad.

THERAPIST: How is he doing?

CLIENT: Oh, he’s good. But I’m trying to get him to get out. Do you know what I mean? And then he’ll say, “Well, I’ll let you know.” It’s his favorite line. “I’ll let you know.” And I said, “I just have to come over here and get you.” Then he’ll say, “OK, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.” And then he’ll say, “I’ll let you know.” (chuckling) [00:04:06] So I don’t know. Everything has been pretty good.

THERAPIST: How are your sisters?

CLIENT: They’re good.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: My youngest sister, her birthday is the 23rd. And we were trying to go see her but the finances are she’s not allowing it.

THERAPIST: Where’s your sister?

CLIENT: Denver.

THERAPIST: Yea, that’s a lot.

CLIENT: So I said, well, I may not be able to go now.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: But later on. So I’m not really worried about that. And I’ve been trying to get my sister that’s next in line to me… trying to get her and her daughter who is 20… Zoe just turned 21. I’m trying to get them to get back in school. I think I told you that last time.

THERAPIST: You did, yea.

CLIENT: And I don’t know. It’s just something about my sister just bugged me so bad. [00:05:02]

THERAPIST: Explain.

CLIENT: She asked me take her to the currency exchange. So I did that. She wanted to go… I guess she was getting money orders. And my niece was with us and I didn’t know she was going in to get her first… I guess her first… I don’t know how you would say that. Her first cash on her Link card. So when she came out, she was dancing and happy. I said, when she went in, she wasn’t like that. What happened? And then…

THERAPIST: (chuckling) Did she win the lottery?

CLIENT: …I heard my sister say, “Doesn’t it feel good to have your own?” And it bothered me because…

THERAPIST: What bothered you about it?

CLIENT: Because that’s not your own. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Go ahead.

CLIENT: You didn’t work and earn this so that’s not your own. This is being given to you on a temporary basis so that you can get yourself together.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: And they don’t see it like that?

THERAPIST: How do they see it? [00:06:00]

CLIENT: I don’t know. Like it’s a lottery or something. To me, that’s the way I’m looking at it. And so I told my niece… she always come to me now. She’s 100% deaf but she read lips and stuff. And the only way you would know that she’s deaf is when she open her mouth and she starts to talk. You know that there’s a speech problem.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: And if you’re talking to her and she’s not looking at you, she may not hear you and you could be…

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So my thing is, I said, “Why don’t you wear your hearing aids?” Now the state has given her so many pairs of hearing aids. And I said, “Do you know how expensive these hearing aids are?” And to me I felt like because your mom didn’t pay cash for it, she doesn’t even know the value and really doesn’t care because it didn’t come out of her pocket.

THERAPIST: You look kind of angry.

CLIENT: I mean, yea. I get mad because I’m like I mean, why don’t you… I guess I should say she should value what is being done.

THERAPIST: Yvette, what do you think really irks you about that? [00:07:07]

CLIENT: I think it’s because I wish my sister thought differently.

THERAPIST: How?

CLIENT: Like on a more mature basis. I wish that she could take all the things we went through when we were growing up…

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: …and stuff and see that you want something different for your kids. Because I see her going in the same direction like momma. The only difference is, is that she is a little bit more into like talking to her daughter about boys and drugs and stuff. But now she smoke week with her daughter. So that bug me and see, I didn’t know that. When I come over, everything is different. Everybody act different. And then when I leave… and see, what happened was they was so comfortable and everything and everybody just talking. And my sister was doing hair and I happened to come over and visit.

THERAPIST: Sure. [00:08:03]

CLIENT: And I guess the routine was you puff and you pass. And my niece was sitting right there and one of my sister’s friends was passing to her and she was like…

THERAPIST: Because you were there.

CLIENT: And I looked at her and I said, “What? Do you… don’t you dare. Don’t give her that.” And my sister looked at me and then the other sister, oh Lord.

THERAPIST: Because they didn’t realize what you didn’t know.

CLIENT: Right. No, they knew I didn’t know. They didn’t want me to know.

THERAPIST: They didn’t want you to know.

CLIENT: That’s what it was.

THERAPIST: So let’s stop here for a second because it’s interesting. You’re really angry and hurt.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Yea. And I wonder if some of this is because it reminds you of your mom’s behavior. Because your mom had a before and an after before drugs and after drugs.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And who you were that… tell me what you’re feeling. I can see tears.

CLIENT: (crying) (pause) I don’t know. [00:09:03] I think my sister should not follow in my mom’s footsteps.

THERAPIST: Yvette, what are you feeling?

CLIENT: (chuckling) (pause) I said I wasn’t going to do this today but… I don’t know. (pause) I think… I don’t know. Growing up, I think that I spent a lot of times telling them, “Don’t do this. Don’t do that.” And when we have our kids, we’re not going to do our children like how we were done. But then I look at my sister, I’m like she’s smoking week with her daughter?

THERAPIST: So that makes you feel what?

CLIENT: Ooh, like God. This girl in school, I mean, book smart. A’s, has scholarships and stuff. And now I’m looking at her, I’m like, OK, she’s not working. (crying) She’s very lazy.

THERAPIST: You feel like she threw it all away. [00:10:03]

CLIENT: Yea, very lazy. She likes to drink. But she’s not violent.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: She just likes to drink and I’m thinking it’s not ladylike. And I can’t make her be the woman I want her to be. But I want to be a lady.

THERAPIST: So it sounds like you have higher expectations for her than she has for herself.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And I also wonder if a part of you is not looking like, do you see what this did to our mother and us? Why are doing this again?

CLIENT: Yes. Why are doing it?

THERAPIST: Is that the part that makes you angry?

CLIENT: And then what scares me… I think I’m more scared because like I told her, I said, “Well, what about when we don’t get you high anymore like you want? And then if you mix some weed with the drinking and it’s not what you want.” (crying) I said, “What if you get weed from somebody and it’s not all weed?” I said, “Because this is what happened to our mother. She got a hold to some bad stuff.”

THERAPIST: And? [00:11:01]

CLIENT: And she had a massive stroke and it led to her death. And my sister says…

THERAPIST: So that’s, in some ways, what this is really about. You’re scared.

CLIENT: Yea. And it’s like I told her. I said, “Now if you start to do stuff…” She said, “Well, you ain’t got to worry about that.” She said, “Because I don’t smoke nothing that I don’t see get rolled up.” But OK, you can see somebody rolling up something but that still don’t mean that that’s what it is or it wasn’t (inaudible at 00:11:32) dipped in stuff then it dried up on there. You don’t know what you’ll get. And then I tell them, I said, “And then…” OK, I think all three of my sisters smoke weed. My baby sister, though, I don’t think she does it on a regular. And she’s a very good mom. She’s a good wife. Everything. I mean, I am so… I’m very proud of her. (crying) And…

THERAPIST: And you’re the oldest, are you? [00:12:01]

CLIENT: Yes. And my baby sister is more so like me with the exception of that she smokes. And my… the two middle sisters, they smoke on a regular. The third sister, she’s more inclined to work and she will work. She wants her own. Right now she’s a little down and out and so she moved in with my sister, the one that I was… the one next to me with the daughter…

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: …to help her out. But she is now unhappy living there with my… with the sister. (crying)

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you bear some responsibility for this?

CLIENT: (pause) A little bit. Not much.

THERAPIST: Tell me about the little bit.

CLIENT: (pause) Well, I don’t know. I feel like if I had… if… maybe if I had did something a little different.

THERAPIST: Like what? [00:13:01]

CLIENT: Well, I don’t know. Like maybe if I had had a good job back then. I would say like maybe back in the 90s. If I had had a decent enough job, then I could’ve maybe helped them I don’t know to get where maybe I though they should’ve been at that time.

THERAPIST: So you’re beating yourself up a little bit.

CLIENT: Just a little bit.

THERAPIST: But it’s a powerful little bit.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Yea. Were you the mom?

CLIENT: Yea and no.

THERAPIST: I know you became the mom but were you their mother?

CLIENT: I guess you could say that. Like the protector.

THERAPIST: You became their mother figure but were you their biological mother?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: No. So could you really stop them from smoking weed or making some of the choices they made? Could you have stopped them? [0:14:05]

CLIENT: I thought I could but no, I couldn’t.

THERAPIST: No. It’s such a hard thing when you look at families. Why do some people succeed in adversity and tough circumstances? Why do other people falter? We’ve talked in our work we have this… it’s hard. I can… I mean, I can see it’s very painful. You have this core of steel in you that survives, thrives, works hard, is productive, wants to achieve, is motivated.

CLIENT: But is tired. (chuckling) (crying)

THERAPIST: But also… yea. It’s exhausting because you keep taking your sister’s decisions onto and into yourself. And Yvette, they’re grown.

CLIENT: I know.

THERAPIST: There wasn’t… I mean, what is it you were supposed to do? You already picked them up and held them. You couldn’t carry all those people. And it wasn’t your job to do it. It was your mom’s job. It was your dad’s job. [00:15:02] And all of you were failed by your parents.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And I can see it. I mean, like I get why you are so angry and hurt and disappointed in your sister. You feel like she had all this potential. She threw it away and now she’s getting her daughter involved with this.

CLIENT: Yes. (crying)

THERAPIST: And this is the very thing that struck down both of your parents.

CLIENT: Yea. And then like on top of that, her daughter has lupus.

THERAPIST: Oh goodness. That’s a lot.

CLIENT: And I’m like, oh my God. I mean, come on. Then her daughter has a daughter. And the little girl is…

THERAPIST: The 21 year old had it… has a child.

CLIENT: Yes. And she’s so… well, everyday says… I say everybody’s baby is smart. But I think these new kids coming up. OK, an example. I’ll say that. My niece at this time was three years old and my… she was hungry.

THERAPIST: This is the 21 year old.

CLIENT: Yes. Well, no. This is her baby I’m talking about now. She’s three. So she tells her mom she’s hungry. But what she does is she called my sister, mom, too. [00:16:03] So she go and tell my sister, “Mommy, I’m hungry.” And she said, “OK.” So she tells my 21 year old niece…

THERAPIST: Who is her mother.

CLIENT: Right. It’s the baby’s mom.

THERAPIST: (sneezing)

CLIENT: Bless you.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: She said, “Go and fix the baby some noodles the Oodles of Noodles.” So she said, “OK, mom.” But she’s very lazy. She’s not attentive to her daughter.

THERAPIST: The 21 year old.

CLIENT: Yes. Very, very lazy. Expects her mom to do everything for her baby because that’s how my sister started off.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: And so while my niece is at the stove getting ready to make the noodles, guess what the three year old baby says?

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: She said, “Now you know you’re not supposed to be at that stove cooking nothing.” (chuckling) And I was like, wow.

THERAPIST: (chuckling) But actually I think that’s a powerful example, right? Because where did the three year old get that from?

CLIENT: Well, actually she acts like me. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: (chuckling) All right. Where did she get those words from? [00:17:02]

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: She got them from somewhere in her environment.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: So the point is we often mimic what we see. So the models in our life, we mimic what they see, right? And sometimes even though you might have one shiny example like you, when you’re surrounded by other models that are not doing what… doing productive things, you are in some ways pulled down by your environment, right? And it didn’t start with you. It started with your parents.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And this isn’t to point the finger at them. I mean, there are some very painful reasons people use, right to numb pain, to do all kinds of things. That’s what has happened to some of your sisters. Tell me what you think about what I said.

CLIENT: I never thought about that. But you know what? They talk about my mom a lot. And like her birthday is coming up Friday. So every year the two middle sisters, they made it a point to say, well, we’re going to make it a tradition that every year on her birthday we cook dinner. [00:18:08] And all the sisters get together and we just sit around and enjoy what mom could’ve enjoyed, right? And I said, OK, that’s fine.

So the third sister called me and she said, “Well, we’re thinking about going to the cemetery to see mom. Go visit and visit grandma.” And they wanted to know if I wanted to go. And I immediate told them no. And I haven’t been to a cemetery. I only go when it’s time to bury and I never go back.

THERAPIST: And tell me what’s in your mind about that.

CLIENT: Well, it’s the cemetery and…

THERAPIST: It’s which cemetery.

CLIENT: The city cemetery.

THERAPIST: I don’t know where it is.

CLIENT: It’s like on 115th. I would say maybe a few blocks west of Central. And the reason why I don’t want to go is because my whole family is there. [00:19:03] My grandparents had 12 grandchildren and only 4 of them are living so all of them are there. And then now my mom is there and then my grandma is there. Then there’s a headstone space for my granddad and everything. And I just tell them, I said, “Well, you know what? The reason why I don’t want to go…” And I share that with them. I said, “Because everybody is there.” I said, “And there’s so many. I can’t go and visit one and not visit all.”

THERAPIST: Sounds pretty overwhelming.

CLIENT: And they said, “Well, we understand that. But at least we can go see our mother and grandma.” I said, “But then I wouldn’t feel good because I would want to go now and see my auntie who I was like this with. My uncle who…” Do you know what I mean? And then my cousin who died the same day my baby was born.

THERAPIST: Oh goodness.

CLIENT: I said, “I can’t do it.”

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And they said, “Well, we understand.” They said, “But we still might go.” I said, “Well, that’s good.” I said, “If you want to go and it’s therapeutic for you and stuff.” I said, “Go ahead.” [00:20:05] But…

THERAPIST: Did you feel OK about putting that boundary down and saying that?

CLIENT: I felt pretty OK about it. And I think the reason why is because I’ve remembered my grandmother. I remember being a kid and it was Memorial Day. And I knew what Memorial Day stood for. And I said, “Well…” I said, “Grandma, are we going to cemetery and see Uncle Larry?” Because he was 19 when he passed away and it was by accident and stuff then I was so close to him. And I wanted to go visit because I’m thinking I’m a kid. I think I can go and see him.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: And shoot, she said, “Well, no. We’re not going to go.” And I was upset about that. And she said… I said, “Well, why we can’t go?” She said, “Well, we don’t have any money to buy flowers and stuff like that.” I said, “Well, OK.” So then what I did was I was going to my neighbor’s backyard and picking flowers and I brought them back to her. [00:21:01] I said, “Well, I got all the flowers we need.” And she said, “No, you can’t go stealing people’s flowers out of their yard.” And I said, “But I didn’t steal them. They’re in a yard.” (chuckling) I remember being a kid saying that.

And she said, “No, we can’t go.” And then she said, “What I do is once I lay them to rest, I let them rest.” She said, “And I don’t have to go back and see them anymore because they’re at peace. They’re at home and it’s OK.”

THERAPIST: And that resonated with you.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: You said Friday is…

CLIENT: My mom’s birthday.

THERAPIST: Thursday is my dad’s.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: No, actually today is his birthday. He passed away on the 5th of September.

CLIENT: Wow.

THERAPIST: I haven’t been back to the cemetery.

CLIENT: No?

THERAPIST: No, because he’s not there for me.

CLIENT: (crying) Right.

THERAPIST: And it sounds like we might have a similar philosophy. I feel no connection to a headstone.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Right? But… and for you it sounds like because all of your family is there, it’s overwhelming.

CLIENT: Yea. [00:22:02]

THERAPIST: And maybe… and it... are you… do you think that in some ways you’re avoiding grief or remembering them by not going?

CLIENT: Well, you know what? I’m going to tell you something that I really don’t tell nobody.

THERAPIST: I won’t tell anybody.

CLIENT: But I don’t know why I’m like this. But it’s like when somebody pass away and if I was close to them or they could’ve… if they visited my home before or I went to their home and, OK, now we bury them. I’ve seen them in a casket. I know that they’re buried. Then by the time I get home, I felt like they are there.

THERAPIST: Like their presence is with you?

CLIENT: Yea, like their presence is there. And I feel like, OK, last time I saw them they sat like, say, here and every time they come, they sit here. And I’ll think that they’re there. (chuckling) And it’s like my grandma died almost four years ago. And every time I go to her house to care for my granddad, I feel like my grandmother is there. [00:23:07]

THERAPIST: What if that’s true?

CLIENT: At first it bothered me.

THERAPIST: Because?

CLIENT: And I was afraid to go into the house because I was thinking that… I said, OK, when we’re here, we’re one way. But I wonder how we are in spirit form. How we’re different.

THERAPIST: What your belief about that?

CLIENT: I think I really don’t know. I always ask myself that and I try to figure it out. And I say because I want to be at peace. I don’t want to walk around and feel like… and I’m going to tell you why I feel like that. I feel like now I could be washing dishes and I could feel like I see a shadow walk past me. And at first, it used to scare me. But now I’m not scared anymore.

THERAPIST: Is it a comforting presence to you?

CLIENT: Yea. And I felt like I’m fine. [00:24:02] But then sometimes I feel like something that went passed me and I’m like… and I’m…

THERAPIST: Well, so are you fearful? Is it a comfort? Help me understand.

CLIENT: (pause) Well, I don’t think I’m fearful. I just think that I know it’s a spirit. I do believe in spirits. And I believe in spirits. I guess I don’t know. Maybe God wanted to do something or some… I don’t know. I can’t even explain it. But I give you the scenario.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: I’m in my car and I’m driving expressway and I’m headed west going toward 87th Street. Well, before you get to 87th, you have that split where you go 57 or keep straight by going…

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: OK. Now that’s coming up. It’s a Friday… Saturday night and I’m getting ready to go out and have some fun with my sisters. [00:25:07] Because I haven’t been out in a long time, right? So I’m feeling good and everything. Now I’m the only one in this car and I’m going to pick up my baby sister who’s going to keep my kids for me, right? And I had my music going. There was no traffic at all. It was unbelievable that there was no traffic really.

THERAPIST: Yea, because in Milwaukee it doesn’t happen.

CLIENT: Yea. And then the time was like maybe 7 or 8 o’clock in the evening. And then I hear this little voice and I hear it and it’s so clear. And it whispered like it was just so soft. And it just said, “Get off at the exit.” And I was like, “Get off at the exit?” It’s like it was just sitting next to me. Like it was that close. And I said, “I’m not getting off at the exit.” (chuckling)

I’m like… and then I said wait a minute. Now I’m talking to myself. This is crazy. So I cut my music down because I’m like wait. Get off at the exit? Why would I think to get off at the exit? That’s stupid. That’s going to take me the long way around.

THERAPIST: So instead of going on the highway into the city, get off at the exit (inaudible at 0:26:10).

CLIENT: Get off at the exit, right, and then take… right.

THERAPIST: Yea, which is completely out of your way.

CLIENT: Yea, because I want to go to 87…

THERAPIST: That’s right.

CLIENT: Well, 88th and Emerald.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I said, OK. Now I cut my music back up and I’m jamming and I’m driving. And then the voice said, “Get off at the exit.” And I’m like now I’m looking in the back of my car. I said I know I’m the only one in this car. And I said wait a minute. (chuckling) I cut my music down. I said, am I getting off at the exit? Why would I get off at the exit? That’s the long way around. There’s no traffic. I said, shoot. I ain’t getting off at the exit. And I cut my music all the way up and guess what? The voice said, “Get off at the exit.” And then I just cut the music off.

THERAPIST: (chuckling) Did you get off at the exit?

CLIENT: Guess what?

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: I didn’t realize I was at the exit because I was not getting off at the exit. I was determined to go the way that I wanted to go. But I didn’t realize I was at the exit until I had to make the right turn at 87th Street where the KFC is to go to the next block. [00:27:11]

THERAPIST: So what do you make of that?

CLIENT: That scared me so bad because I’m well awake. I’m aware. Everything. There’s nothing wrong with me. I haven’t been drinking.

THERAPIST: So what do you make of it?

CLIENT: (pause) I told my sister when she saw me. She said, “What’s wrong with you? You don’t look right.” She said, “Something is wrong.” And I couldn’t say nothing to her. And the only thing came out of my mouth was, I said, “I have to go back the way I would’ve came.” I said, “God want me to see something.” And it was just plain and clear to me, that. And she said, “Well, let’s go.” And when I drove there, you know where if you’re getting off at 87th and (inaudible at 0:27:51) and you’re making a left. OK, you got the crazy viaduct where you got the crazy turn like the S.

THERAPIST: Is that by like where Best Buy was and all of that?

CLIENT: Yea, where you have Home Depot now and all of the little strip mall of the stores.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: Do you know right underneath that viaduct, there was a semi that had smashed his car so bad that you couldn’t see the front or the back of it. It was smashed up against the wall. And I told my sister and I just got chills and like something just came over me. I said, “That was me.” I said, “God wanted me to see that.” I said, “Where I was going to be disobedient and not listen to what the voice was telling me to do.” I said, “I was going to do my own thing but God said, ‘No, not today.’” I said, “He picked my car up girl off the highway and set it on the street. And He wiped everything away from me. I had no recollection nor remembrance of it. No nothing. All I know was I was at the exit.

THERAPIST: So this is a comfort to you? Does it scare you?

CLIENT: A little bit of both.

THERAPIST: OK, that’s fair.

CLIENT: Because it’s comforting to know that I have angels and I have God and I know that. [00:29:01]

THERAPIST: So how does this fit into your religious belief system?

CLIENT: Well, I believe in God. And I’ve been…

THERAPIST: Would you say you’re religious spiritual, religious, one or the other, both?

CLIENT: Well, you know what? I still don’t know. No, seriously.

THERAPIST: I can appreciate that.

CLIENT: Because I’m… now like I told you before, I’m at an age now where it’s like I’m trying to find myself. And I’m thinking now I’m like, am I religious? I said I believe in God and I speak about God and stuff like that. But I don’t go around telling people, “God (inaudible at 00:29:34).” So…

THERAPIST: Are you a regular church attendee?

CLIENT: No. Now and I don’t know if I should be ashamed to say that or not.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: But well, I don’t know. It just seems that all people… well, I don’t want to say all. I never like to say all. Most people that attend church often, what have you, then I know that they’re firm believers. [00:30:00] But I wonder if that makes my belief like depreciate a little bit.

THERAPIST: Because you don’t attend church?

CLIENT: Because I don’t attend church like on a regular basis. I go seldomly.

THERAPIST: What do you think I’m going to say?

CLIENT: Maybe not. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: (chuckling) See, you know me already. (laughing)

CLIENT: Right. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: I think it… I’m thinking a couple things as you’re telling me this very powerful story. One that I think, at least and this is my own personal belief that the spirit world and the physical world are not that disconnected, right?

CLIENT: You don’t think so?

THERAPIST: I don’t think so because I think I have felt the presence of my father. I think that… and this is all going to depend on what you believe. But when people physically depart from the Earth, they live within you, right, which is why their physical loss is so painful. But depending on how you feel about the person, their emotional loss, they may still be with you. And it sounds like you feel that in a very powerful way, right?

And I mean, religious… religion, one way of defining is people who sort of attend church or a particular religious service a mosque, the synagogue, whatever on a consistent basis. [00:31:11] But religion can envelope a sense of spirituality or it can be some of the things you describe for yourself a belief in God, a belief in spirit, a belief in things more powerful than yourself. And you’ve presented yourself as a very spiritual person.

CLIENT: Yea?

THERAPIST: I don’t think, for you, if attending church is that… if that’s not for you or where you find God, OK. That’s not a judgment in any way.

CLIENT: OK. I was wondering that.

THERAPIST: And this is just… I should confess. I’m not a regular church attendee myself. I had grown up doing that. I’m not. But I have a strong sense of spirituality and a belief in things outside of myself.

CLIENT: And then I was thinking, too. I said, now… ooh, I’m sorry about that. [0:32:03]

THERAPIST: Is that your phone? (chuckling)

CLIENT: Yea. I’m not worried about it. I often ask myself. I said in this world I know I want something good and I want to be able to live. I’m not the type of person who, like a lot of people say, “Oh, if you had three wishes, what would they be?” And the first things somebody would say, “I want to be rich and stuff.” I’m not materialistic. I’m not in love with money. Do you know what I mean? I just…

THERAPIST: What do you think that says about you?

CLIENT: (pause) Well, I don’t know. Because a lot of people say, “You don’t… you… money? What? You need money.” Yes. I need money for survival.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: You know what I mean? And I would love comfortably.

THERAPIST: Absolutely. Right.

CLIENT: I don’t have to have it all. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: What do you think that says about you, Yvette?

CLIENT: (pause) I don’t know. Crazy. (chuckling) [00:33:03]

THERAPIST: Well, I don’t think so. (laughing)

CLIENT: A lot of people, they think that.

THERAPIST: But you don’t.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: You know what our theme is? You know what our theme is, right?

CLIENT: What’s our theme?

THERAPIST: We keep having themes and the theme is pretty clear that you follow your own voice. No matter what other people are doing or what you’ve seen in your family, you follow your own voice. You don’t… may not always know or be able to acknowledge that you’re doing that, but you very clearly follow your own voice. And your own voice does not steer you wrong.

CLIENT: (pause) I didn’t think about that like that.

THERAPIST: Tell me, does that fit for you?

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And what parts of that are true?

CLIENT: Well, I do believe in being a leader. I don’t believe in following behind anybody. Now if you were right…

THERAPIST: But you’re an oldest child.

CLIENT: Well, yea. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: (chuckling) So that, in some ways…

CLIENT: So that’s where maybe it comes from being.

THERAPIST: In part, sure, in part. [00:34:02] (pause) You don’t understand why your siblings don’t have the same thing that you have. You sort of look at them and go, “Come on. Come with me.”

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And you’re frustrated. Come with me.

CLIENT: If you talk to them, they will tell you that I will call them up and I’ll say, “Look, I’m going to dad’s house. Come on. I’m coming to get you or whatever.” And then I’d say…

THERAPIST: But they’re not you.

CLIENT: Right. And I know how to like differentiate between the differences in people. I know that what the things that I look forward to doing and my expectations in certain things are not going to be the same as theirs. But I want…

THERAPIST: But you want more for them.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: But they have to want it themselves.

CLIENT: I know. I think they do. You know why I say that? My sister, the one I told you that’s next to me, the one with the daughter, this is the way she is and I’m kind of noticing it now that if she feels an obligation to something, she’ll do it. [00:35:10] But if she feels no obligation, nah, no interest.

THERAPIST: It does make me wonder, when do you get to focus on your own voice?

CLIENT: (pause) I don’t.

THERAPIST: You don’t. I don’t mean leave your family behind. I don’t mean that at all, right? But at a certain point in time, you get to focus on your own voice. Like this is your time.

CLIENT: Yes. And I am so enjoying it. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: I know. But how do you enjoy finding your own voice? And I don’t think you’re really that lost from it. It’s just about clarity because you’re pretty consistent in who you are and what you want, right? But it’s about, in some ways, accepting and this is a somewhat painful but accepting your sisters are making choice that they are allowed to make given that everybody is grown. [00:36:06] And your choices are different. And you can’t always relate which is why when they were passing bud around the room, everyone was like, uh-oh, guess who’s here, right? Because they’re choices are different than your choices.

CLIENT: And I have… (chuckling) It’s really kind of funny. Some of my neighbors, they call me Ms. Yvette and they’re the same age I am. And…

THERAPIST: What do you make of that, Ms. Yvette?

CLIENT: Yea. And I’m like, so should I dye my hair now? (chuckling) Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Well, and so what does that tell you?

CLIENT: That I act like an old lady. (laughing)

THERAPIST: Well, but you know what? In some ways, you’ve been forced to be everybody’s momma. And you’ve taken on the role. And so when your siblings make choices that you see as detrimental to them, it does hurt you. Of course it does. But they are allowed to make their choices just like you’re allowed to focus on your own voice. [00:37:07] So what are we saying forty?

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Hey.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Right?

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And so your sons are how old?

CLIENT: Twenty-three and nineteen.

THERAPIST: That’s right. And so it doesn’t involve leaving your family behind but it does involve shifting your concentration because at a certain point in time, they get to be responsible for their choices. You choose to lead by example. You’ve given them the example. They have to choose to do something with it and they’re making all kinds of choices some of them good, some of them bad. Just like you and I, right? So when do you get to focus on your own voice?

CLIENT: Well, I would say late at night but by then I’m tired. And I am so exhausted. But it’s like I ask myself. I said when did I have time to write that book? And then I said when did I have time to put together that little portfolio? [0:38:05] And do you know, I still can’t remember that.

THERAPIST: I’m sure.

CLIENT: I cannot. I don’t know when. And then like the other day I was washing dishes. I don’t know. It always seems like when I’m washing dishes I guess I go onto thinking mode or something. And I’m washing dishes and I said, ooh, perfect title for another book for a kid. Oh, (inaudible at 00:38:23). I’m going to do that. And then I’m like, when are you going to do it? I would like to do it but when? I don’t know.

THERAPIST: So one thing, this don’t really sound like focusing on your voice to me.

CLIENT: It doesn’t?

THERAPIST: It sounds like focusing on other projects which is great.

CLIENT: But you know what? I don’t… I’ve never done anything recreational really. I mean, like…

THERAPIST: Yes. And what is it you like to do recreational?

CLIENT: Oh man. I like to travel and…

THERAPIST: Give me two things that you could actually do now recreationally.

CLIENT: Right now?

THERAPIST: Right now. [00:39:00]

CLIENT: (pause) (chuckling) Right now?

THERAPIST: Right now.

CLIENT: (pause) I don’t have time to do anything?

THERAPIST: If time wasn’t a factor.

CLIENT: If time wasn’t a factor, right now I would love to learn how to skate.

THERAPIST: Ice skate or roller skate?

CLIENT: Roller skate.

THERAPIST: What’s stopping you?

CLIENT: I don’t have time.

THERAPIST: You do.

CLIENT: (pause) I promise you, I… like I will tell you how my day was today.

THERAPIST: I believe you. But you could make time for that one thing that brings you joy.

CLIENT: Oh, it brings my joy just being with people and doing stuff with people.

THERAPIST: Yea, but this would be all about you.

CLIENT: All about me?

THERAPIST: Yea. That’s so foreign to you.

CLIENT: You know what I think I ought to enjoy doing?

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: I would enjoy going to a spa for the first time.

THERAPIST: That would be wonderful.

CLIENT: I think I could let somebody like play in the fat for a while and massaging muscles. (chuckling) [00:40:05]

THERAPIST: Stop yourself. (chuckling) Stop yourself.

CLIENT: (laughing)

THERAPIST: How is it we end up talking about a joyous activity, you insult yourself?

CLIENT: (chuckling) Oh well, you know…

THERAPIST: You know what? You’re going to get it. Stop yourself. (chuckling) Goodness.

CLIENT: (chuckling) I don’t know. I just like to talk about… (chuckling) But…

THERAPIST: I wish I could say I didn’t understand but unfortunately age and gravity.

CLIENT: Oh you? Oh shoot.

THERAPIST: But Yvette, what is the deal? Why is it so difficult to do things for yourself, even small little things?

CLIENT: I don’t know. (pause) Well… (pause) I don’t know. I think it’s all going to stem right back to no time. [00:41:02]

THERAPIST: Yea, but you got to make time because you are spending your whole life working. And I get you’re working towards things.

CLIENT: I know this but…

THERAPIST: What are you feeling right now?

CLIENT: Oh, nothing.

THERAPIST: Tell me about this.

CLIENT: I’m just… I’m really focusing on what you’re saying like…

THERAPIST: You look sad.

CLIENT: What? No, not sad. I’m just wondering, why can’t I make time for myself?

THERAPIST: That’s right. You make time to go get your grandfather, to go over to your sisters so they can pretend like they’re not smoking weed.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: To tell everyone else what they can do. What about you?

CLIENT: I don’t know. And then I sound like a hypocrite because one of my assignments was to write about time management and I did that. And I believed it when I was doing it.

THERAPIST: (chuckling)

CLIENT: (chuckling) But now that it is over, I’m not doing it. And I said I don’t care who call me today. I’m not doing nothing. [00:42:02] And then the minute that phone ring, I said, I’ll be there. And I don’t know. What is it?

THERAPIST: I’m going to give you homework. And you know I don’t give homework. I’m going to give homework. You have three weeks, three weeks, to go roller skating somewhere. You can take a family member with you. You can take your sons. You can take whomever, a friend. You can go by yourself. Three weeks. There is a…

CLIENT: I’m going to come back here broke up into pieces. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: There is a place called… what is it called? Oh, goodness. It’s on the trail in the park. You know where the trail is?

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: When you get off the highway, you get off at the trail...

CLIENT: At the trail.

THERAPIST: …and head east towards Indiana. It’s in the suburb right before the university. It’s on your right hand side. It’s a big roller rink. But I mean, like old school roller skates. Like with the four wheels, not the roller blades. [0:43:02]

CLIENT: Yea, that’s not me. Yea, I need the four wheels.

THERAPIST: Yea. That’s one place. It’s all over Milwaukee.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: I think they have a place in Brookfield. Brookfield is another southeastern suburb. You know where it is?

CLIENT: Yea, I know what Brookfield is.

THERAPIST: Three weeks. I’ll give you a month. A month from now I want you to come back and tell me that you went roller skating. You did one thing for yourself that brought you joy that wasn’t about self-advancement or writing a book. And all those things are great but you did… you took joy in this one thing for yourself. A month.

CLIENT: A month, OK.

THERAPIST: How will that be for you to do? And you’re conscientious so I know that you’ll come back with a full report.

CLIENT: Yea, I know. (pause) I don’t know. It should be fun. Yea, it should be fun and I might try bowling…

THERAPIST: Hey, good.

CLIENT: …a month from now.

THERAPIST: That’s assignment 2. I just keep thinking you work so hard, right, and you’ve had lots of pain in your life. [00:44:07] And you have really just… you’re in school, you’re doing what you want to do. It is time. You’re sons are virtually grown. It’s time, right? And so it’s time to make time. And making time is hard unless it becomes a habit and you have to plan for it. Take… I don’t care. Go with your sisters. Do it (inaudible at 00:44:29) whatever. But think about once a month planning one fun thing for yourself and whoever… whomever.

CLIENT: Once a month.

THERAPIST: Once a month.

CLIENT: Now, the one thing I was doing once a month that I’ve… and it’s a fun thing for me but I haven’t done it recently because when school starts back…

THERAPIST: It’s crazy, I know.

CLIENT: …I have no time.

THERAPIST: I get that.

CLIENT: And I think all my friends, they haven’t called. But I think because it’s my book club. And that’s when we all get together and…

THERAPIST: That’s fun.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Yea, that’s fun. [00:45:04]

CLIENT: But golly, I haven’t done it. Whoa.

THERAPIST: But you could do it because you don’t have to read the whole book to go.

CLIENT: No, actually sometimes I go and I haven’t even got the book.

THERAPIST: Fine. Good for you. Good for you.

CLIENT: I just go and when they start talking, I said, “Girl, she did that?” (chuckling) So it’s like I can participate without reading the book.

THERAPIST: Absolutely.

CLIENT: But I’ll probably going to cheat though because I didn’t read the book.

THERAPIST: Book clubs are about fun connections. So that’s the homework.

CLIENT: Yea, I’m going to do it.

THERAPIST: I know you are and I want to hear about it. I want a picture, too.

CLIENT: (chuckling) Proof, oh, you want proof?

THERAPIST: (chuckling) I want proof.

CLIENT: Doh. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: Yvette, let… we should set up our next appointment.

CLIENT: (chuckling) OK.

END TRANSCRIPT