TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: So what is happening in your world? It’s been a while.

CLIENT: Well yes. I lost a few inches.

THERAPIST: I see that.

CLIENT: [Laughing].

THERAPIST: Where did they go?

CLIENT: I’m working on it.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I’m working on it. Hmm, let me see. What has happened?

THERAPIST: Yeah, it’s been, I don’t know; three weeks or something? Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Um, nothing spectacular.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I don’t know. Same old, same old.

THERAPIST: Family? School?

CLIENT: Um, well two of my sisters had the opportunity to go to Denver to see our baby sister for her birthday, and I am so glad. Oh, they had a good time, you know, and stuff. So that made me happy, you know. Except for when she wanted me to come and I couldn’t come.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But you know, I mean, they were there so it was good. Let me see. What else?

THERAPIST: Yvette, can you refresh my memory. There’s you, three sisters, you have a brother…

CLIENT: No. No brothers.

THERAPIST: No boys.

CLIENT: No. No.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So it’s four of us altogether.

THERAPIST: Okay, that’s what I thought.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So everybody was in the same place except you weren’t able to go?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: That’s tough.

[01:14]

CLIENT: I know, yeah. That was tough. But you know it was okay.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So they sent me pictures. So I’m glad they had a good time, you know. And let’s see; what, what, what. Hmm, well, I’m almost done with the workshops. Oh, praise the Lord! Now I can get back on track because I fell so far behind. So the last day for the last workshop is Saturday. So I did three of those this semester.

THERAPIST: Oh goodness.

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, those are pretty…because they are weekends.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So you like get no break.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: And I think I pretty much aced those.

THERAPIST: Good for you.

CLIENT: So yeah. You know I’m glad about that you know because I couldn’t stand my GPA saying 3.8 when I know it could have been a 4.0, you know. That like bugged me. So I had to make up for that, you know.

[02:14]

THERAPIST: So what bugs you about having a…?

CLIENT: The 3.8? Well because I knew that, okay, I had five – what was it? Five A’s and one B.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And the B was because my car wouldn’t start the day I had to do my presentation and I knew that my overall contributions to the group for the assignment was A work and everything. And I said okay, when I do this presentation I’m going to ace it, you know. And oh, my car wouldn’t start.

THERAPIST: So it was the injustice piece that irked you?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You earned an A and you weren’t able to get it strictly because that stuff outside of your control.

CLIENT: Exactly. You know what I mean. And I’m thinking, okay, my 3.8 could have been a 4.0. And then when I look at how much work I have to do to get the 3.8 to a 4.0, I’m thinking, okay, well if the B only…I’m thinking it should not be that maybe like half of a point, you know, when it didn’t. And now I have to get like four more A’s in order to get a 4.0. I’m like wait; really?

THERAPIST: So you really push yourself.

CLIENT: I mean yeah, but God!

[03:28]

THERAPIST: Where do you think that comes from for you?

CLIENT: I think because I really…I have to excel. I feel like that.

THERAPIST: You have to excel or?

CLIENT: I mean if I don’t, then I’m going to feel like maybe my purpose; I’m back to my purpose.

THERAPIST: You’re back to your purpose.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know, it’s like why am I here then. I mean, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think that’s very interesting that if you don’t get a 4.0 or you don’t push yourself, you have no purpose or haven’t fulfilled your purpose?

CLIENT: I haven’t fulfilled it. You know, and I don’t even know what it is. It’s like I’m still, you know, like I told you, I’m still trying to find it.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like I just left from the SEP. We had a meeting.

THERAPIST: What’s SEP?

CLIENT: Student Enrichment Program.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, okay. Is that Samira Taylor’s program? Ms. Taylor’s program?

CLIENT: Actually, we always meet with Emily.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And it’s like even though I didn’t need this workshop, you know, this one was particularly for people on academic probation, but it’s like I still wanted to know what it entailed in case I should fall short somewhere, you know, then I would know.

THERAPIST: Okay, so you would fall short from a 3.0 to below a 2.0?

[04:50]

CLIENT: Well, you know you just never know. [Laughing.] I mean.

THERAPIST: So when does all of your success become internalized?

CLIENT: Well, I think when I land that job.

THERAPIST: Oh, you think it’ll stop then? This pushing yourself?

CLIENT: Well, I mean to the point where maybe I would take it a little bit slower. You know, I will still be…

THERAPIST: Have you ever done that? Taken it a little bit slower?

CLIENT: Well, hmm…that’s kind of…well, I think, okay, how I can answer that is like, okay, when I was going to school and then I had to stop, you know, now I’m taking care of my kids and then their grades are good. And I make sure that they get it, they understand that grades are very important and stuff like that. Then I think I felt fulfilled because although I wasn’t working or at school, I was still doing my job, I guess.

[05:57]

THERAPIST: So for a while, because I remember where we were last time you were going to talk about…you talked a bit about your first marriage and you were going to talk about your second.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: So for a while you were a stay-at-home mom.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And I mean, it was okay, but still I, you know. So I’m like okay, well, it’s not all about me anymore, it’s about my children. So.

THERAPIST: So you have these two boys.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Because I remember, okay, your first son was born. I remember you telling me about going on the bus. And you and your first husband divorced.

[06:28]

CLIENT: Well no, no. We didn’t, but we were separated like for so long and we were on the verge of it, yeah.

THERAPIST: So how does husband #2 come in?

CLIENT: Well we kind of sort of met by accident. You know it’s like I wasn’t looking for anybody, you know. We just happened to meet. I don’t know, we had so many things in common, you know, we just started talking and then I don’t know. I guess we just hit it off from that point.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And we’ve been together, oh Lord, for 21 years.

THERAPIST: And is your second son through this marriage?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And then I hear from my sisters, they always tell me you don’t even know what it’s like to be single. You’ve always been with somebody. And I never thought about that.

THERAPIST: What do you think about that?

CLIENT: I just tell them well, I guess I know how to get them and keep them. I don’t know. [Laughter.] I mean, you know, how do you answer that? I don’t know. And…I don’t know. I wonder that.

THERAPIST: Wondered what?

[07:45]

CLIENT: You know, I mean like yeah. How did I end up like that? Like most people they can say, oh you know I just be dating and you know. I never had the dating thing.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you’re missing something?

CLIENT: At one time I did because…

THERAPIST: When was that?

CLIENT: It’s like okay my friends and then my cousins – one I’m really close to – you know, then it’s like you look at them and to me it’s like they always talk about, “Oh, I’m so glad I don’t have no man all up under me and I can go out and have all this fun and stuff.” And then, you know, and I be thinking. Okay, you go out and have all this fun and stuff. But then deep down, though, I don’t think they are really truly happy.

THERAPIST: And you?

CLIENT: Me, well, I wonder. I think I am. I’m pretty sure I am.

THERAPIST: How do you think your marriage is?

[08:40]

CLIENT: I think it’s good.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: You know, I think it’s healthy and you know, we joke a lot. It’s like more…if I had to weight it on the scale, I would say the good is way better than the bad, you know. And I would say…I don’t know. I’m pretty happy. But then it’ll take you back a little bit sometimes. You wonder, you know, dag, what would it have been like to be on the dating scene and all that? And then I may go out with my friends or whatever and I look at the guys that are out here and I’m like, uh no, I’m glad. I mean you know because I see what’s out here and now I don’t really care for it.

THERAPIST: So part of you was fulfilled for a while – being a wife, being a mother, raising your kids while they were in school. And when did that get to kind of you need more than that?

CLIENT: I need more than that when they graduated high school. When my youngest graduated high school and then I said okay, now what are you going to do with yourself?

[09:47]

THERAPIST: And how long ago was that?

CLIENT: It was last year. Wait.

THERAPIST: I was going to say, it couldn’t have been that long ago.

CLIENT: 2011. Was it ‘11? Yeah. No, ‘12.

THERAPIST: So now it’s “you” time?

CLIENT: Yes. And I’m trying to give it all to myself. You know what I mean? I’m trying to go for the gold.

THERAPIST: Which looks like what?

CLIENT: Well, it looks like it could be a combination of things. You know, like I told you before, I found myself doing things I’ve never done before and it’s a little scary, but it’s interesting.

THERAPIST: Well, one we talked about was kind of having more fun.

CLIENT: Well, I haven’t gotten to that point yet. [Laughter.]

THERAPIST: What are some of the things that you’re doing that you’ve never done before?

CLIENT: Oh, well not really. That’s a good question. Okay, let me think about that for a minute.

THERAPIST: Alright.

[10:55]

CLIENT: I’ve always written things down, you know, because I guess I enjoy writing. But I would be writing things that really had no meaning. I mean it’s like I’m just writing. At one point I thought I wanted to do greeting cards because I had all these brilliant ideas, right. So…and I got a notebook full of stuff that…and I wanted to call it Something For the People. You know, simply saying things that you want to say that you are afraid to say. You know, and I mean like being really blunt. You know. Okay and I stopped doing that.

THERAPIST: Alright.

CLIENT: Then as like I could be writing down…it used to be a time I would not go anywhere without carrying my notebook, you know, because I never think or never know when something is going to pop in my head and I want to write it down. And I wrote like a few things, I guess you could call it poetry, but when I listen to what other people are doing I’m like I don’t know if that’s poetry or not.

THERAPIST: So you have a very creative mind?

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Well it sounds like it; whether there, you know, poems or kind of you think what would go in a greeting card.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know…

THERAPIST: What’s that about for you, Yvette?

CLIENT: You know, I think it’s maybe me…hmm; maybe writing down some things maybe I was feeling, you know, maybe.

[12:20]

THERAPIST: Okay, tell me about that.

CLIENT: Hmm, okay, well, I could remember I wrote some…I wrote something but I think at that time I was thinking about my aunt. Oh God, I’m going wail.

THERAPIST: What are you feeling?

CLIENT: My auntie. Okay, this is the aunt I told you wanted to adopt me; wanted…I don’t know if I told you, but she wanted me to make sure that when she passed away that she had an all white…the Bible and you know…

THERAPIST: You’re going to have to go back and tell me. I don’t think you told me about this one.

CLIENT: Oh my God. I didn’t do it. You know, and a lot of times I was like, God, I didn’t do what she wanted me to do. I didn’t do it.

[13:11]

THERAPIST: Okay, so Yvette, take me back for a second. You know, I can see this is really tough. Tell me about this aunt.

CLIENT: Okay, I mean she was the best. I mean like really. I do this all the time, right. I think it’s because the tears is because I held back so many years without, you know, so maybe I guess it’s just time for them to come out I guess.

But she was the type of person I could go to when my mom was…I don’t want to say not being a good mom or whatever, but like when I knew she wasn’t being fair. You know; would blame me for stuff that I didn’t do or stuff that I should have done that I didn’t even know I should have done it. And I would go to my aunt when my grandmother was at work or whatever. And my auntie would give me just good advice, you know.

THERAPIST: Is this the aunt who took you to the doctor; who was going to…?

CLIENT: Yes, this is her.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I don’t know. It’s like she was the mom I felt I should have had.

THERAPIST: Wow.

[14:25]

CLIENT: You know what I mean. It was.

THERAPIST: Can you say more about that? That’s a pretty powerful statement.

CLIENT: She was…would always talk to me, you know, about your body and how to be a young lady and things like that I felt my mom should have done. And she would like teach me how to do certain things, would allow me to help her in the kitchen. You know, had the patience. I knew she loved me. Well I knew my mom loved me, but it was just different and I felt like, I think, with my aunt I was the daughter she never had.

THERAPIST: Okay. You guys had a very special relationship.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. You know and then it got to the point where she would see my mom do things to me, say things to me in front of my friends like to embarrass me and stuff, but I don’t think my mom realized she was embarrassing me.

THERAPIST: Is this when she was high?

[15:22]

CLIENT: I think it started…this was before she actually started the hard stuff. I think back then, maybe, she was just smoking weed, maybe.

THERAPIST: Alright.

CLIENT: And I don’t know. I think that’s what that was. And I remember my aunt made a comment. My mom did something – we had a bike that we had to share and my friends came over and they said well can you get your bike, you know, and come outside? And I said, well, I did all my chores and everything and my homework is done, so I’m pretty sure my mom won’t mind. You know, I did everything I was supposed to do. And when I took the bike outside, I don’t know what happened, you know, I was riding the bike and everything was fine. Then out of nowhere, oh my goodness, she just went ballistic. And I think she yelled at me…I think I got a whipping on the front porch in front of my friends. And everybody was laughing and I couldn’t understand why she did that.

THERAPIST: Okay.

[16:21]

CLIENT: And I remember my aunt telling me, no; she argued with my mom about that. And I remember hearing her say that’s why I’m going to take her and I’m going to adopt her. And I was like oh please Lord, please. You know what I mean. And but that never happened. I used to bug her all the time; you said you were going to adopt me. So are you going to do it?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: And I think she was talking out of anger then. As I got older, I stopped asking, but I was always with her still, so it didn’t matter.

But then that day came and I don’t know what it was, but she had me and her two boys sit down and she said well I want to talk to you about something. And at this time, you know, we’re just young kids. I was in high school, like maybe a freshman. And she said when I pass away, I want you to do this. I’m giving each one of you a job. And we were like, we don’t want to talk about that. You’re not going anywhere. You know. And she was like no; you’re going to sit down and you’re going to listen. And okay. So she told me what my job was – make sure she had on white and make sure she had the Bible in her hand.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And I said, okay, I can do that. But you know, I’m not thinking she’s going anywhere, you know. And I would say because every day when I get out of high school I would stop by her house, but there would be some days I wouldn’t have enough money to stop and then have to go, you know, get back on the bus and go home. I said well, she doesn’t always have money all the time, so she may not be able to have the money for me to go home.

So, but I mean it’s like I stop over there like almost every day; every day. But this one particular day something just told me to go straight home. You know, I don’t know; something with me and these little voices, you know. And it’s almost like God is just talking to me like he’ll make me hear what he’s trying to say.

THERAPIST: Sure.

[18:18]

CLIENT: And I said okay, but then that stop came up and I was like oh, I really want to go over my auntie’s house though, you know. And I didn’t move. I just stayed on the bus and I went on home. So I wasn’t really worried about it. And when I got home, you know how you’re a kid; you’re just sitting in front of the TV. You’re eating your candy or whatever. But then my grandparents come over. And when they came over, they said…it’s like you could look at them and see something wasn’t right. My mom went to the door and they said, “She gone.” And when they said that, I wasn’t thinking nothing at first, but then I looked at my mother and her face, you know. And then I looked at my grandparents and I’m like, oh wait. I said, “Who gone? Where did they go?” You know, and then she said Lacey is gone. And I’m thinking now, my grandmother’s sister’s name is Lacey. I love her too. But my aunt’s name is Lacey, and that scared me. And I said, wait, what Lacey. Not that it should have mattered, but…

THERAPIST: Well sure it mattered.

CLIENT: That one that was real close, you know, and that’s the one she was talking about.

THERAPIST: Your aunt?

CLIENT: Yes. And she said, “She gone, she gone.” You know, and then my mother just fell out because they were close.

THERAPIST: How did you receive this?

[19:34]

CLIENT: When she said it was like I think I was in shock. I couldn’t react. You know, because it’s like I didn’t believe it. You know. So let me see. I think when it was time to go to the funeral, because they were saying how she was found. You know, her and my grandma talked every, every, every every day, but when my…I think that’s what bothered me the most. My cousins were young and when they came home from school, their mom was on the couch and they thought she was sleep, and she still had the phone in her hand. But they said that they didn’t notice anything. You know, they’re little kids just playing. They went on outside and played and everything. But when my uncle came home and saw her on the couch, he said he knew something wasn’t right because usually when she sleeps, she snores like oh man, you know, wake up the dead. But she wasn’t snoring. And then he said he went in to the room and he came back out and she hadn’t turned over or nothing and she still had the phone in her hand. So that was unusual.

He said when we went to touch her, she was ice cold. And by then, he said he didn’t know CPR or whatever and stuff. And I was thinking, I said dag; you know, and it always hit me, I said if I had of went over there, I could have done CPR. I could have saved her.

[20:58]

THERAPIST: Fourteen.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I was like 14. You know, really, yeah. I was thinking that. I said I could have saved her, you know. But then I thought about it and I said but you wouldn’t have been able to get in.

THERAPIST: Yvette, how did she die?

CLIENT: Hypertension and I think she had a heart attack. And I said, ah man. She was like 36.

THERAPIST: Yeah, so young.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Tell me when she asked you to have her wear white and hold the Bible, tell me – because we started this because you said you weren’t able to do that.

CLIENT: I wasn’t able to do it because first, I wasn’t thinking about it. And then secondly my grandparents, you know, they handled everything. So I’m just a kid. They’re not going to listen to me.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: You know it didn’t hit me, though, until that night. You know, after the funeral. And I was leaving for my grandparent’s house with my then boyfriend, my first husband. And I don’t know; it was like late in the evening. It was almost like…let me see; it was getting dark, but it was dark enough, but it wasn’t daylight. Yeah. And I could have swore– I’m telling you right now until this day; it’s like I can still see it – I could have swore I saw her standing at the corner in all this white with this Bible in her hand. You know, and I just started walking real fast. You know what I mean. And my boyfriend was saying why are you walking so fast. I said, just come on; I just want to go. You know, let’s just go.

[22:38]

THERAPIST: Why do you still blame yourself for that?

CLIENT: Because I didn’t do what she wanted me to do. I always did what she wanted me to do, you know, and I was like, God, I didn’t do it. It’s almost like well my grandma…when my grandmother got sick… [Pause]…oh boy.

THERAPIST: What are you feeling?

CLIENT: I felt like she was waiting for me.

THERAPIST: What are you feeling as you’re talking about your aunt and your grandmother?

CLIENT: I really don’t know. I think…when I pulled up to my grandmother’s house, it was Easter. And that day I wasn’t going to go. I said it’s going to be so many people and I was so tired. You know, I was just tired. And I said I always go on the holidays, I said, but this one I’ll just wait and I’ll go tomorrow. You know, I said because I’m always the one, you know, after…I mean, and my family is so huge. I mean it’s so huge. I’m always the one left to clean, left to, you know.

[23:51]

THERAPIST: So not to interrupt you, but I notice something happening here. Every time you feel the grief of all of these significant losses in your life, you just push it away.

CLIENT: I have to.

THERAPIST: Tell me about why you have to.

CLIENT: Because if I don’t, oh my God, it will stay in my head like…

THERAPIST: But Yvette, it’s in your heart. Have you ever let yourself grieve for all these losses? There are lots of losses.

CLIENT: Well I don’t know. At the funeral.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but besides that.

CLIENT: No, I don’t think so.

THERAPIST: Right, so, you know, I think one of the things I see happening with you in here is you know we start talking about something and it brings up all this stuff from your past and then you’re overcome with emotion because you never let yourself grieve it.

CLIENT: Well, it’s because I want everybody to feel better. You know, so…

THERAPIST: I’m talking about you. Just you.

[24:59]

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You know, do you realize that grieving someone is honoring the relationship you have with them. We never just get over. I mean you’ve had some huge losses and the theme in all of this is you know either you feel God speaking to you or you know steering you away from kind of being there when the loss happens. But the theme is always you’re supposed to do something or you’re supposed to intervene or you know, with your grandmother or CPR or making sure your aunt wore white. And that is a heavy burden.

CLIENT: I mean yeah. It’s, it’s…yeah.

THERAPIST: And this is with all of these losses – your mother, your mother’s sister, your grandmother – you’re the oldest; you’re supposed to do something. It’s your responsibility. But I wonder if you’ve never really been able to grieve all of these losses.

CLIENT: Well I thought I did.

THERAPIST: You’re so busy taking care of everybody else – your sisters, and your sons, and your husband and everybody else. And even in here, we start talking about you and we never end up talking about you.

CLIENT: We don’t. We don’t?

THERAPIST: We do, and then we don’t.

[26:22]

CLIENT: I don’t know. I don’t know where to go with that. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: So how are you taking in what we’re talking about?

CLIENT: You know, I think now that you’ve said that, it makes me think about something my son always says – my youngest son – he always tells me, he said mom, you talk about yourself a lot. You know. And at first when he said that…

THERAPIST: You do?

CLIENT: I started laughing. Yeah. You know, because it’s like…I like to come home and share with them what my day was like. You know, but it almost seems like nobody is interested. You know what I mean? Seriously. It almost seems like nobody is interested.

THERAPIST: What do you mean by that?

CLIENT: Because okay like I would even…like even my husband. I would like to tell him you know, about maybe a grade that I got or something or what the teacher may have said. You know, or somebody, someone may have told me that I’ve impacted them some kind of way, you know.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: The online class I have. I like to encourage people, you know. And even though my Communications Ethics class, and I get people that respond back to me and they say you have a beautiful spirit, or you know, or you’re the type of person people like to be around. And I’d like to share that with them. You know what such and such said, you know, whatever. You know.

THERAPIST: And you don’t feel heard there.

[27:52]

CLIENT: No, actually I feel like I’m used to it.

THERAPIST: Used to?

CLIENT: I’m almost like I’m used to nobody really caring. I mean you know…

THERAPIST: Nobody? You mean at home.

CLIENT: Oh, how can I say it? [Pause.] Okay, tell me what you think.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Okay, I can tell my husband, I could say look, I got this grade today, you know, and today this happened and if he’s watching TV, guess what? He didn’t hear nothing I said. You know and I just brush it off.

THERAPIST: But it hurts.

CLIENT: Yeah, it irks my nerves.

THERAPIST: So how do you think that impacts us here when, for example, you become deeply emotional which is completely appropriate about your aunt or your grandmother and we try to focus on you here because I am interested and I do care. How do you think that experience at home where you think that people don’t pay attention impacts you here?

[29:11]

CLIENT: Um…

THERAPIST: Or what’s happening here between us?

CLIENT: I think it makes me want to push harder.

THERAPIST: Explain.

CLIENT: You know it makes me want to say all the time I tried to talk to you and tell you about what I was doing, okay, if you didn’t hear me when I was talking, then I’ll show you.

THERAPIST: You’re angry.

CLIENT: You know, a little bit. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Just a little bit?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Why just a little bit?

CLIENT: Because I’m at the point now that it’s all about me, you know, and I’m doing it for me.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah, so as long as I’m happy with what I’m doing, I’m good.

THERAPIST: I wonder if that’s true.

CLIENT: Really?

[30:01]

THERAPIST: Well I don’t know. I’m asking. Well you know because you know it’s interesting because I think there are a lot of strong themes in our work and you know it’s a great time for things to be about you. I mean for one of the first times in your life, you know, your husband’s okay health wise, you’re okay health wise, at least right now. Your sons are off doing what they’re doing and it’s a great time. But you know you still really do have a difficult time focusing on yourself.

CLIENT: I do.

THERAPIST: It’s about your sisters and even the most powerful experience of grieving, you can’t stay there.

CLIENT: I know. But I thought I was. I thought I did. You know, but I don’t know. Now I’m starting to wonder what’s – I should know that – what’s all involved in the grieving process? You know, it’s like my sisters asked me – I think I told you that before; they wanted me to go to the cemetery and I didn’t.

THERAPIST: That’s right.

CLIENT: You know and I just said no. It’s just…I’m the type of person that I don’t have favorites, you know. It’s like I love everybody. And well, I don’t like everybody; I love everybody.

THERAPIST: But you did have a favorite. Your aunt was one of your favorite special people.

[31:22]

CLIENT: Like yeah.

THERAPIST: Well what’s wrong with that?

CLIENT: I don’t know. You know, I think sometimes showing favoritism is bad.

THERAPIST: Well, I didn’t say you’re showing favoritism, but your aunt was one of your favorite special people and you were the same to her.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know and it doesn’t sound like you have a chance to grieve or truly honor that relationship as it sort of changed its place in your life. She was 36 years old. That’s tragic. And she was very special to you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know, it’s almost like you have sort of these ideas about how things should be and you hold yourself to this standard of well I can’t have favorites. Well, of course you have favorites. Right. Your aunt was one of your most favorite special people. That’s amazing. There’s nothing wrong with that.

CLIENT: She was.

THERAPIST: You know and to the point where she asked you to do something and you’re still blaming yourself for it and you were just a kid. A kid who was not in on the decision making process.

CLIENT: I really wasn’t.

THERAPIST: No, but yet you’re still holding yourself to this standard like I failed. I didn’t do what I was supposed to do. Your grandmother; I failed. I didn’t do what I was supposed to do. And that’s…I don’t understand how you could hold yourself to that. It’s not true.

[32:38]

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: You’re so hard on yourself.

CLIENT: I try not to be, or do I.

THERAPIST: What are you feeling right now?

CLIENT: My son is in my head.

THERAPIST: Okay, and what’s he saying.

CLIENT: He always tells me; I mean this exact same thing you’re saying. He’ll say you know mom; he says you think – how does he say it – I think too much. He says just do it. You know, he says you’ve got to stop and you want to get the dictionary. This has to be perfect. This has to be right. He said just write it. You know, and I’m like but I can’t just write it.

THERAPIST: Right and that comes from where in you?

CLIENT: I don’t know. It’s like if I’m doing something for somebody, I want it to be done right, or at least the way they would have done it. You know what I mean? Okay.

THERAPIST: So where in your life do you enjoy yourself?

CLIENT: I asked myself that one day. I really did.

THERAPIST: Fun?

CLIENT: I said every time there is a family gathering, you know how I have fun with the family like everybody else does…

THERAPIST: Why? What? Cleaning up…

CLIENT: In between cleaning and I be yapping while I’m cleaning…

[33:55]

THERAPIST: And who are you trying to prove you’re good enough to?

CLIENT: Nobody.

THERAPIST: Are you sure?

CLIENT: You know I promise you. I think that I do it because I know that when you came over to my granddad’s house it was clean and when everybody leaves, I want it to be clean like how it was.

THERAPIST: But that’s everywhere in your life.

CLIENT: Yeah, everywhere I go. I mean, everywhere I go. It can be a stranger. I don’t know. And it’s just in me to do it. I don’t know. You know, I’ve been invited to a wedding reception, and when it’s almost time to leave, I be helping the staff clean up. I mean you know, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think we have to look at that because on the one hand it looks very honorable, but on the other hand you really are denying yourself.

CLIENT: Of what?

THERAPIST: This; you’re holding yourself to the standard of perfection. You’re supposed to do everything. You’re supposed to clean up. You have to plan. It has to be perfect. There’s not a lot of room to be a human being in there Yvette. There’s not a lot of room to breathe, to have fun, to enjoy your accomplishments. Right. So every time I ask you what are you doing for fun you get this deer in the headlights look.

CLIENT: I know, because I’m like “fun?”

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[35:09]

CLIENT: Because I, I…nothing.

THERAPIST: You’re not enjoying your successes. I mean how often do you get a chance to enjoy being Yvette?

CLIENT: Oh, that is a good…I tell you. I don’t even think I would know how to do it.

THERAPIST: Oh good. Now our work is cut out for us.

CLIENT: If somebody told me, you know, to do that, I…I wouldn’t know where to begin.

THERAPIST: Okay, I think that’s a good place for us to begin, right, or continue. You know, I heard another theme today of sort of not feeling heard at home. I think we’ve got to look at that. So how would you feel about looking at that theme next week as well as, you know, how to still hold yourself to high standards and still have fun; still enjoy yourself? Do you want to do that?

CLIENT: Oh Lord, I don’t have the time.

THERAPIST: Why do you think that fun has to take so much time?

CLIENT: Oh my goodness.

THERAPIST: You have to put it on a calendar. Okay Yvette. That’s what we’re going to do next time. That’s a good place for us to be.

CLIENT: I am so serious. I’m going to tell you, I…whew. [Laughter.]

THERAPIST: That’s, I think let’s pick up from there. Yeah.

CLIENT: I am so serious. I don’t even know how.

THERAPIST: Okay, we’re going to work on that.

CLIENT: You know. Yeah, that’s…

THERAPIST: That’s a good place?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Alright, so let’s stop this.

CLIENT: Wow.

END TRANSCRIPT