TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: What’s happening?

CLIENT: Well, guess what?

THERAPIST: What!

CLIENT: Last week I had a meeting with Enacts. I guess it’s like an organization here and what they do is they help businesses. I guess it’s like – I want to make sure I’m saying it right. It’s like an entrepreneurial type thing and from my understanding they work with Fortune 500 companies.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And say if the company is having trouble in some areas then they figure out ways to help generate revenue to help the companies with whatever problems that they have.

THERAPIST: The organization serves as a consultant to the company?

CLIENT: Something like that.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Okay, I’ll give you an example. Okay, they came up with here, creating a job like a small business where they would be parking cars, right? Like if the Students for Performing Arts was having a venue or something then valet parking for that. Students get discounts. Seniors get discounts, things like that. If we have like a big snow, we do snow shoveling.

THERAPIST: Who came up with the idea?

CLIENT: The President of Enactus. And then, I believe she’s going to be the treasurer. And she’s majoring in accounting. So she was already engaged in a project where she helps Zimbabwe . I don’t know what all she’s done so far, but she was run out of ideas. So what I did was (chuckles) – remember the little business thing I showed you?

THERAPIST: Your business plan. I do.

CLIENT: I put it on the table.

THERAPIST: Okay!

CLIENT: And I just told them, well, it’s a little premature, but I came up with an idea a long time ago and I put it down on paper. I said now look through it if you like. I had the idea but I did not have the money, I did not have the know how, or know anything about (unclear) distribution or anything like that. So they were reading it. I was quiet. I let them read it and they seemed like they were very excited and then they told me well we’ve never seen anything like this before. You know, it’s very unique and it’s really pretty good. They said, you did this by yourself? And I said, yeah. You know? Well, I didn’t have a (unclear) analysis so they started laughing, right?

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And I was like, yeah! So he asked me what I wanted to do with the idea and I told him –

THERAPIST: Refresh my memory again, Yvette. What –?

CLIENT: Okay, it was an idea –

THERAPIST: Because I definitely remember reading it.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, you know how you’ll see guys, they ride around in their cars? They look so –

THERAPIST: That’s right – the one with the –

CLIENT: The wheel. So –

THERAPIST: It’s Rims for Women.

CLIENT: It’s Rims for Women.

THERAPIST: Yes!

CLIENT: Oh, you have a good –

THERAPIST: No, I just, no you just sparked my memory when you were telling – because I think that’s how you explained it to me.

CLIENT: Yeah, okay. And while they were reading it they asked me to pitch the idea to him. So I did that and he told me, ‘excellent idea,’ because you’re right. Today is the right time to be doing something like that. So I said, okay, so what can we do with it, you know. And he said what do you want to do with it and I said, well I’ll tell you what. If we can sell that idea. [00:03:58]

THERAPIST: And who are you selling it to?

CLIENT: Well, he said that my target market was wrong.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: He said I was targeting individuals and I should be targeting companies. And I told him, I said, ‘I figured that but didn’t know really,’ you know, so he said well, that’s no problem. We can fix that. He said, well, you have the idea, we have the people.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So I said, okay. You know. So – now what do I want to do with the idea? I said, okay, if we could sell the idea I’d like the proceeds to go to Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe needs bathrooms and they need school supplies and things. They need to get out of the outhouses, you know. To help with the agriculture and things like that. So then they said, ‘man, not a bad idea.’ Okay, but I had one problem with that. Maybe I talk a little too fast. Okay, I shared what happened with a lot family and some friends, and they said, ‘but you should at least ask for maybe 10%,’ and then I thought, well, I guess that wouldn’t be too bad.

THERAPIST: You mean for yourself?

CLIENT: And then tell them for all of their help without going over a certain percentage, you know, because I would like for 40% to go overseas. Well, maybe not 40 but 60% to go overseas, yes. And then we can divide the 40%. I don’t mind sharing. I mean, they’re helping and –

THERAPIST: So – how do you feel about the fact that the group was responsive to your ideas?

CLIENT: I felt so good.

THERAPIST: And what made you put it out there?

CLIENT: I don’t know. It’s like I was listening and they were in a bind and I was like – the idea, you have that idea, give it to them and see. You know, it just happened.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know it’s like, it just happened.

THERAPIST: So how is this similar to the theme that we’ve been talking about?

CLIENT: Well, I am definitely not doubting myself.

THERAPIST: All right! Give me five. Okay.

CLIENT: So that’s a shell I had to come out of and I feel really good about that.

THERAPIST: That’s great!

CLIENT: I feel good doing something for other people.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know, all the time, so when I’m doing that, I feel great. So I mean I don’t know I just (laughs).

THERAPIST: Yeah but that’s the theme to acknowledge, that’s kind of where we’ve been working towards. You have an inner set of – you have an inner competence, you know?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And that doesn’t mean you’re confident about everything, but you were pretty confident in yourself, it’s unrecognized.

CLIENT: I figured that it’s just an idea.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s either a yea, or nay or you know, we can maybe help you with that or something. You know, I said, I have to put it out there and see where it can go. I mean, I don’t know what to expect but that’s the whole thing – you never know.

THERAPIST: But it took some confidence to do that.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:06:58]

THERAPIST: Just like last week you were telling me about Toastmasters. It took some confidence to get up and give a speech.

CLIENT: That first speech. Yes!

THERAPIST: So you know, again you do things all the time that reveal your confidence.

CLIENT: Uh huh. Sometimes I wonder if it’s a little like over-confidence?

THERAPIST: Well, do you feel like it is?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I mean I guess I said that because I think about this and I ask myself, ‘didn’t I hear somebody say – I don’t know if they were saying I displayed a good sense of confidence or if I overdid it.’

THERAPIST: Who said that?

CLIENT: The evaluator at Toastmasters and I was wondering –

THERAPIST: Overdid what? The speech?

CLIENT: I believe with the confidence, maybe? I don’t know. Maybe because it was my first speech and they didn’t expect me to (unclear) like people.

THERAPIST: To what?

CLIENT: Maybe they didn’t expect me to get up there and maybe do so well?

THERAPIST: Do as well as you did. Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, I guess, okay, she’s the icebreaker, she’s going to be a little nervous. I think what they were expecting to see, they didn’t see.

THERAPIST: Yeah, because you joined a group where people have trouble speaking in public, and you don’t.

CLIENT: Well.

THERAPIST: You don’t.

CLIENT: I feel like I do, but I don’t think I do.

THERAPIST: No. You don’t.

CLIENT: Maybe you’re trying to refine your skills or practice, but you don’t.

THERAPIST: I don’t.

CLIENT: But you don’t. I guess what I was feeling was like what everybody else would feel, you know? A sense of anxiety a little bit and stuff. And when I think about what I did, when I did the forgiveness, when Tess and Bailey were here.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: (Laughs) Oh God, that was so funny. I forgot my name.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but even as you get up, I mean this is how people kind of learn the things they’re good at because even when you’re nervous and you’re doing a skill that’s unpracticed, you still enjoy it. [00:08:59]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay, and in some ways when you talk about speaking in public you look exhilarated.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay, well that’s how you know that you like public speaking. Half of those people in there are probably terrified.

CLIENT: Yeah, but that’s just the thing. I’m so scared right before.

THERAPIST: Well, you’re nervous.

CLIENT: So I guess that’s normal?

THERAPIST: Sure, because that’s not a practiced skill yet but you have the raw materials to make it happen and I think in some ways that’s the story of your life. You have talents and skills, right? And some you’ve been able to practice and some you haven’t been able to practice but you’ve always sort of had a clear voice, an internal voice that’s kind of guided you into doing these things, trying these things, and it sounds like to me you’re really starting to trust yourself more.

CLIENT: I think so. But I think I did a bad thing when I put that idea on the table. It’s not copy written, you know?

THERAPIST: Okay, well.

CLIENT: And –

THERAPIST: You know what, though? Everything is a learning experience.

CLIENT: Yeah. That’s the way I was looking at it. I said, because I always tell myself, I’m going to use this to see how far I can get. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: And so, but I’m not worried about it. I’m always coming up with ideas all the time.

THERAPIST: Sure. And you’ll remember the next time.

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. But in the meantime, you’ll see if it goes or what and you can learn from it but I think the point is that you were confident enough to put your idea out there for evaluation by a group.

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: That’s pretty awesome. [00:10:34]

CLIENT: Oh, thank you.

THERAPIST: You’re welcome. That’s pretty good!

CLIENT: (Laughs) I mean you know, I was like, golly, it seems like they are so smart (unclear) because when I first became aware I just started laughing and I’m like, “really?” Because a lot of people have ideas and think that oh, it’s nothing and then look how huge it is.

THERAPIST: But, you know what you do that I don’t think you know that you do is you sort of – you’re nervous but you do it anyway.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know you don’t over think it. You actually over think it after the fact.

CLIENT: After the fact, yes.

THERAPIST: Okay, but that’s really good because that doesn’t stop you from raising your hand in class or getting up and giving a speech or putting your idea on the table and most of these things are well received.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: How does that feel to know?

CLIENT: That feels good to know, but –

THERAPIST: Before you “but”.

CLIENT: I don’t know, but yeah. (Chuckles) I’m working on it.

THERAPIST: You are.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: I can tell.

CLIENT: I am really working on that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. So, I mean how do you feel about all this?

CLIENT: I’m good.

THERAPIST: What does that mean?

CLIENT: You know, that means that I guess if something good comes out of this, I would feel like oh, I’ve made a contribution somewhere. You know I helped somebody who’s not in familiar territory. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean, so yeah, that just feels really, really good.

THERAPIST: Good for you!

CLIENT: So when I leave school tonight, one of my cousins is a recovering drug user and alcoholic. And she is having her anniversary tonight. And I said that’s okay, and she doesn’t know I’m coming and doesn’t even know that I know. So I’m going to –

THERAPIST: How long has she been sober?

CLIENT: Seventeen years.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: You know, so I said, I’m going to pay a visit. I’m just going to leave from here and go to the West side of Milwaukee and just surprise her. And my cousin was telling me – it’s her brother – I think you should get up and say something. And I was thinking, oh, well you know, I didn’t ask for permission. I don’t want to just, you know, I’ll just go in the party. Just be there, you know, as support. And he’s still telling me he thinks I should say something. I don’t think –

THERAPIST: Well, do you want to?

CLIENT: I mean, I could.

THERAPIST: Do you want to?

CLIENT: I wouldn’t mind.

THERAPIST: Do you want to?

CLIENT: (Laughs) I think, yes.

THERAPIST: Yes! You think you want to.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Okay. It’s a pretty special occasion.

CLIENT: Yeah, it is, you know.

THERAPIST: What would you say?

CLIENT: I don’t know. That’s the thing with me is – I think I told you this before. I am so much better if I write it down on paper and when I get ready to come out, you know, I have to fix that.

THERAPIST: Fix what?

CLIENT: If I plan to write something, I usually don’t say what I plan to say. I just speak directly from –

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT And I just let it go. And I don’t think that’s good all the time.

THERAPIST: Okay. I’m confused.

CLIENT: Me too. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: So you – when you get ready to give a speech – you do write it down or you don’t?

CLIENT: I do. But I never use it.

THERAPIST: But you get your thoughts together.

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Yes you do. When you write it down –

CLIENT: I can’t even remember what I wrote. And I want to type it up, have it nice and neat and then I know I want to take my main ideas and put them onto the index cards and just have the index cards. But I never get to that point. Never.

THERAPIST: But you don’t need to.

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: What’s with you and index cards?

CLIENT: Well, because it seemed like that was what I was supposed to have. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Here you go with the supposed-to.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But, I mean what difference does it make if you get up and you give a good speech?

CLIENT: Because I would want – because I always wonder if it sounds or it sounded as good as it did when I put it on paper. When I put it on paper it sounds so good and it makes a lot of sense to me. But when I’m saying it without reading it I’m wondering if that’s –

THERAPIST: Have you ever recorded yourself?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Maybe you should. Then you could hear how it sounds.

CLIENT: That’s a good idea.

THERAPIST: You know, again, I think you have these ideas in your head about how you’re supposed to write a speech.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think, any I don’t know, I’m not a speechwriter, but I don’t think speech – people who give regular speeches memorize every word to every speech. Right? I think that people who are good speakers memorize ideas and maybe the order.

CLIENT: And expand on the ideas.

THERAPIST: Yeah. So I think when you write your speech down, however you write it, you’re still getting your thoughts together. And when you get up, even if you say something different, the process of getting your thoughts together. And when you get up, even if you say something different, the process of getting your thoughts together is preparing. You know. So when I – early on when I first started teaching I would script every joke. I would write every joke and I thought I had to write out what I was going to say, right? But the more comfortable I became, I never wrote out what I was going to say, I wrote down –

CLIENT: The idea.

THERAPIST: I wrote down the concepts I wanted to talk about.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: All right. There are types of speeches you want to give where you read off the paper and many that you don’t. But this sounds like something you really want to be good at – to do well.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So, you should speak.

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah, I just made communication my minor today.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Just –

THERAPIST: I was just going to ask you what’s the career goal. What do you want to do?

CLIENT: Well, like I told you first that it was nursing, but I do not want to that anymore. And so I ask myself, ‘what is it that you like?’ I love people.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And so okay, to engage with people I have to communicate. What better way to communicate and know how to do it than take it?

THERAPIST: So what is the eventual career goal? I mean what is it –?

CLIENT: I think I would like to get my masters in communication leadership.

THERAPIST: Okay. [00:17:24]

CLIENT: And the way I came up with that is I was searching through to see what they had. And I said okay, I think I’d like that.

THERAPIST: What does communication leadership do? I’m unfamiliar with it.

CLIENT: Well, okay (laughs). Well because I looked at it, I read it. I don’t know. But it seems to me, just from the title alone, you know, I’m learning leadership skills where when I’m out and about and it entails public speaking –

THERAPIST: Okay, now we have to look it up.

CLIENT: All right, let’s look it up because I forgot. I picked it up and I liked it. I just don’t remember –

THERAPIST: So when you envision your profession – what does it look like?

CLIENT: What does it look like? It looks like me inspiring people maybe like – I can see myself traveling giving professional speeches or something or, I don’t know, something to help somebody. That’s really a hard question.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It really is and I – remember when I told you before that I really don’t know what it is that I want to do?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I’m really trying to narrow it down? I’m really trying to.

THERAPIST: So, okay, here is – I pulled up a page from a university and it’s got a masters of arts in communication and leadership studies and says, “is designed to provide graduate level expertise for solving communication problems in modern organizations and social systems from a communication and leadership perspective.” I don’t know what that means though.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: “By their very nature, organizations depend upon complex communication functions for effective operations.” Let’s see. “The program is grounded in both scientific and humanistic theory and methodology,” blah, blah, blah. Okay, so “for those seeking leadership in corporate communications, public relations, media management and media criticism, human resources, strategic planning, training and consulting, media literacy, communication teaching or if you want to go on for a PhD.” I wonder if you should speak with an advisor.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Like an academic advisor to give you an idea of what a career path might look like for someone who has a master’s degree in communication and leadership.

CLIENT: Because, guess what –

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Tomorrow I have an appointment with the Career Center. I’ve taken the assessment –

THERAPIST: The STRONG.

CLIENT: The STRONG, yes.

THERAPIST: Have you got the results?

CLIENT: That’s tomorrow.

THERAPIST: Okay. I’ll be interested in seeing the results.

CLIENT: I am interested.

THERAPIST: Yeah. That’ll give us a good idea. [00:20:40]

CLIENT: Yeah, because I’m, like I explained to them. There are so many different things that I could see myself doing.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What is it that I really want to do – I don’t really know? I’m the type of person, I’m very versatile. I don’t mind doing a little bit of this, or that. I just don’t. I don’t understand it.

THERAPIST: But we still have to find your passion.

CLIENT: Yes. What is it?

THERAPIST: Yeah. So it will be good. Will you bring that in when you come in next time?

CLIENT: I sure will.

THERAPIST: Even, you’ve been interested in nursing which has to do with the provision of care. Did we talk about social work?

CLIENT: We did. I had made social work my minor initially.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And then I changed it because I often wondered if I would give too much of myself because it’s too intimate. You know what I mean? It’s too close to the nursing and you know to go see somebody in pain and then not do them any good. I would want to take those people home with me.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I mean, you know what I mean? And I had to learn how to tear myself away just from working in a nursing home.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I mean, you know what I mean? I would punch out and I would still be working.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know what I mean? People didn’t understand that no – no way. We’re trying to get out of here and you still be here. I would do doubles and I would be tired and I would still stay to help the oncoming shift if they needed help and I’m off the clock.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I mean, you know, I don’t understand.

THERAPIST: Okay. So when you get the STRONG back we can definitely take a look at that.

CLIENT: Yeah, it’s because now I feel like I haven’t been doing so much in nursing in the nursing home that I have a little bit of myself for myself.

THERAPIST: And you didn’t feel like that there.

CLIENT: No. There I felt like I couldn’t go home because they needed so much. You know what I mean? There was one time I worked a double and while working this double, I only did it because I knew they were going to be short staffed that night, so I volunteered. I said, I’ll stay. Do you know – nobody showed up? For that wing on the night shift? I worked the whole 120-bed unit by myself. I could have lost my certificate and stuff.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that’s illegal.

CLIENT: That’s illegal. And I called and I asked for help and that means the director has to come in and offer some help. Nobody showed up.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that’s pretty – So in some ways you’re afraid of losing yourself if you get too involved with the helping.

CLIENT: Yeah, because you know, it’s like if you see somebody doing worse than you, you feel obligated in some way. Know what I mean? I mean I can’t help that. I say well, I know I can’t give them all the care that they need but the least I can do is keep them clean and dry. That’s the least I can do. [00:23:39]

THERAPIST: So when your STRONG results come back, we can look at that. Because first we figure out what you want to do and then figure out how to do it.

CLIENT: Okay (laughs), it still sounds like it’s so hard.

THERAPIST: You know, I think you’re getting there. I do have a question for you. We’ve been seeing each other for a while. And I wanted to check with you about how things are going but what things you would still like to work on. How have things been going?

CLIENT: Well, so far things have been going pretty good. I’m learning how to say no.

THERAPIST: Okay. And you know I think that’s a direct result of our work together?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: All right?

CLIENT: You know, because me trying to be here and be there and do this and do that and when I get home I’m so overwhelmed and bombarded with all of this work that I have to do and if I hadn’t been over there trying to do this and do that I could have been at home taking care of what I had to do for myself without falling asleep at the computer or – you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And it felt good.

THERAPIST: Good for you!

CLIENT: You know it felt really good. I wrote a paper about time management and what it is that I needed to do for myself to manage my time. And I wasn’t following it.

THERAPIST: (Laugh)

CLIENT: And I had to think about it all the time, like how can I write a paper that was so good and I can’t follow it? That’s like being a hypocrite.

THERAPIST: So that was one of the things that you came in with. Not being able to say no was one of the things. What else are you –?

CLIENT: Well, I think I’m learning how to not doubt myself. I am really – that was really huge.

THERAPIST: Last week?

CLIENT: Yes. And I’m telling you that that’s like a break through.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I no longer doubt myself. I just say, don’t put that paper on the table – it’s just going to be what it’s going to be and that’s it.

THERAPIST: That’s fantastic.

CLIENT: That felt good.

THERAPIST: That’s great!

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Because it seemed like that’s where all of our sessions ended up.

CLIENT: You said that. And I thought, that’s right.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, I said, I have to fix that. No. And when I tell you I feel like the weight is lifted –

THERAPIST: It’s still lifted!

CLIENT: Like, yeah!

THERAPIST: That’s great!

CLIENT: You know. I cry when I get happy so excuse me. I am happy.

THERAPIST: Happy tears.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. [00:26:17]

THERAPIST: Okay. Well I’m proud of you. I could tell last week that something clicked for you. You know, because I do think you have confidence in yourself. You just don’t acknowledge it. Right? And I think you’re, you know, we’ve talked a lot about acknowledging how bright you are and your brain and all the things you can do and I think that’s great.

CLIENT: Well, thank you and I tell you, there was a girl I met in Governors, out in the hall.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And I was telling her about you and I was telling her because she was telling me you know, like a few things. It’s just funny how a stranger can walk up to you and just start talking.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: You know, and I told her, I said, you should go over to the Academic Resource Center and see Dr. Peterson, because she is helping me a great deal and I’m pretty sure she’d to the same thing for you.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Yeah, and she was saying, I need to do that. I said, I wrote your name down and (cross talk). (Laughs)

THERAPIST: I appreciate that.

CLIENT: So she won’t forget and everything and then I read it to her again. This girl remembered my name and (whispers), that’s a person I care – (laughs). You know, she told me, I was thinking about you the other day and I said really? And I said okay, so I felt really good about that. And I don’t know if she came to see you because I forgot her name.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: You know, but (laughs) if you get a person, you know, and it’s just her first session –

THERAPIST: If she mentions your name I’ll know what it is.

CLIENT: (Laughs) Right.

THERAPIST: You are so funny.

CLIENT: Oh my goodness. It is just amazing how I can bump into some of these people.

THERAPIST: But you know what? I think even in that moment you’re not beating yourself up for not remembering her name, or not assuming that you’re not intelligent because you don’t remember your (unclear).

CLIENT: Right. No.

THERAPIST: You don’t need to remember her name.

CLIENT: I just don’t remember.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, and it’s okay to not remember.

THERAPIST: It’s definitely okay.

CLIENT: You know, I feel – I told you last week that I felt really good. I don’t have to remember every – if I don’t, it’s okay.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: You know, I am good.

THERAPIST: Good for you!

CLIENT: Yes. I am good.

THERAPIST: So that being said, there are – I think there are – I want to get your thoughts on something.

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: We can do a couple of things. A lot of time when people start doing better, we kind of address some of the things they come in with – we can either look to work on some of the other things like we mentioned some of the trauma issues – that’s also work we don’t have to do right now. If it’s not interfering with your daily life, we have to look at is that something you want to do now. We can go every other week. You know. What are your thoughts?

CLIENT: Well, I know we did talk about organizational, you know, skills. I need to learn how to get organized. I think I know a way, I don’t. And I admit that. So yeah, I need to work on that.

THERAPIST: So when you say, get organized, what is it you’re looking to work on.

CLIENT: Okay, how can I say it? Let’s take the four classes that I have.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I know what days I have these classes on. I’m trying to figure out a way to get my work done whereas I don’t have to worry about it anymore and not feel guilty about watching a little TV.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: See what I mean? So it’s like oh man, so many things I want to see – like I want to watch that and I can’t. I have no time to watch TV. So I say, well okay, what class do you have tomorrow? Okay, I will take that class out and I will look at it and I will say, I have this done, this done and this done. Okay, I’m pretty good for class tomorrow. Then my brain will immediately go into, okay, what class do you have the next day? And I’ll pull it out and I’ll look at it and say, well I need to get this done, this done and this done. And I’ll tell myself, well you can go that tomorrow. Watch a little TV today. And it does not work?

THERAPIST: Are you describing anxiety about all the things you have to do?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Is it a – so let me just make sure I understand. Is it a lack of planning or is it just anxiety because you have a lot of things to do?

CLIENT: I don’t know. You know, I often ask myself that – what is it? Maybe if I set everything up according to the way I have to use it then I would know what I need to do first right then but I can complete this for tomorrow even though today is already finished with. Complete what I need for tomorrow and then I’ll say, okay, I’ll watch a little TV, but it doesn’t happen. I’ll start pulling out the books for the next day.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Because you’re anxious. 00:31:17]

CLIENT: Because it’s like yeah, and I know that I have to do it, so why wait to have to do it. Just go ahead and do it.

THERAPIST: So that doesn’t sound like a time management issue. That sounds like an anxiety issue.

CLIENT: That’s what it is?

THERAPIST: Well, that’s why I’m asking. So you’re not turning in things late.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: You’re getting everything done.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: You’re getting everything done in a timely manner.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Well that sounds like good time management to me. But you’re just anxious about it.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like why can’t I – how can I make time to watch TV? How can I make time to go and enjoy my book meeting? You know, my book club?

THERAPIST: So here’s a question. When you organize your schoolwork, when you plan what you’re going to do when, right? You can’t plan a half an hour or an hour in there to watch TV or go somewhere?

CLIENT: Do I do that? No, I just do it.

THERAPIST: But you could plan it. Put it in there as protected time. I’m going to spend two hours on homework and one hour on watching TV, right?

CLIENT: Yeah, but it don’t work.

THERAPIST: Sure it does. You just have to do it.

CLIENT: I just have to do it.

THERAPIST: That means you have to say, okay, so when you map out your schedule for the week, you know, and sometimes you map it out, you know, 5 to 6, 6 to 7, 7 to 8, 8 t6o 9 p.m., you put in an hour when it’s protected time, whether it’s family time or –

CLIENT: Yeah, and guess what happens? I would notice, remember okay, going back to when I read something and how long it takes me – I could have got through an hour, I could have maybe got through at least 30 pages of reading something, you know?

THERAPIST: How long does it take you to read 30 pages of a textbook?

CLIENT: (Laughs) well, sometimes it will take me an hour to read four pages.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know what I mean? And I say that’s crazy. I mean if I just read through it I think I’m almost positive I could get through 30 pages in an hour if I just read through it.

THERAPIST: You can? I don’t know if I can. Of a textbook?

CLIENT: Why, yeah. I mean, like okay. It’s a book we had to buy for discussion. We have to have –

THERAPIST: Do you have it with you?

CLIENT: Do I? I don’t know, do I have it?

THERAPIST: Let’s see.

CLIENT: I’m telling you, it’s like I want to stop and take notes and I mean, like what is wrong with me?

THERAPIST: But, Yvette, again, it’s about trusting your brain. Your process, you have what? A 3.8 GPA?

CLIENT: Yes. [00:34:01]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: All right.

THERAPIST: So this is not a textbook.

CLIENT: No, it is not a text.

THERAPIST: So if you were going to read, let’s see, one chapter and one chapter is let’s say ten pages. How long would it take you to read ten pages of this book?

CLIENT: It took me three days to get to where you see that bookmark.

THERAPIST: Okay. And it took three days because what were you doing?

CLIENT: Okay. Well, oh yeah, I would stop and do this and do that. Cook dinner. You know, go through the (unclear) medicine and all that stuff so –

THERAPIST: All right. But that’s not just because you did straight reading. It’s because you were busy in between.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: That’s the problem.

THERAPIST: Yes. That is interrupted time.

CLIENT: I have a lot of interrupted time.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I need to fix that.

THERAPIST: That’s fixable. The issue though is you always think it’s due to your cognitive deficits and it’s not. That’s why you can’t remember what you’re reading, because you stop and you start and you stop –

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think if I can’t get through one chapter –

THERAPIST: But that’s because you’re getting up to do all these other things, right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Well, that has nothing to do with how bright you are. It has everything to do with the fact that you’re interrupting yourself. And you know what? Sometimes it works like that. Life works where you have a bunch of interruptions but you are blaming your inability to remember things on your mind. And it’s not your mind. It’s just that when you sit down after having to get up and do five things you have to go back and find out what you did again.

CLIENT: Right. And now I have to go back maybe two pages before so I can remember where it’ll make sense – I say, Lord, I’ll never get done. (Laughs) Help me get done with this book.

THERAPIST: Okay. So you know, how do you resolve that issue, do you think?

CLIENT: I don’t know because it seems like everything I’m doing, I have to do.

THERAPIST: Well, yes, but can you read for an hour uninterrupted, or 40 minutes and in the last 20 minutes do one task in the house that’s going to take 15 minutes?

CLIENT: No, I think I will have to go to the library.

THERAPIST: That sounds like a good plan.

CLIENT: Yeah. That’s what I need to start doing.

THERAPIST: So there. A time management problem solved.

CLIENT: Solved. Just that quick. What? See? Why can’t I do that?

THERAPIST: You can.

CLIENT: (Laughs)

THERAPIST: You make me laugh. So, here’s my question then, what would you like to do for us? Would you like to go every other week? Would you like to, you know –?

CLIENT: I could do every other week.

THERAPIST: And in our every other week sessions, what would you like to work on because all of our work besides looking at some of the tough things that have happened in your family has really centered around your confidence. And you have confidence. [00:37:03]

CLIENT: I have that.

THERAPIST: And you don’t have memory problems.

CLIENT: Are you sure about that?

THERAPIST: You have interruption issues, okay? And you don’t have concentration problems. You just have multiple interruptions.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Okay. So I’m wondering – I guess my memory problem is not really a problem. Whereas I –

THERAPIST: I’m sorry, can you say that again?

CLIENT: My memory problem is not really a problem.

THERAPIST: Un huh. All right!

CLIENT: Because I’m thinking, okay, so what? I don’t remember this person’s name or I don’t remember what somebody just said five minutes ago. That’s okay.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: That’s why I thought I had a problem.

THERAPIST: Because of the unrealistic expectations. The brain is a machine that dumps information you don’t need.

CLIENT: That’s good to know.

THERAPIST: Yes. So we are then working on what?

CLIENT: Well, right now I think you fixed me.

THERAPIST: (Laughing) I think you fixed you and I just pointed out some things.

CLIENT: Yes. Things I had no idea – things I would have never thought. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So yeah, I think I’m pretty good.

THERAPIST: So, would you like to work together for one or two more sessions every other week and just kind of shore things up to bring everything together?

CLIENT: Like bring everything to a close? Yes.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yes. That would be beautiful.

THERAPIST: Yes!

CLIENT: Yeah, I would love that. And then I would definitely bring you back my STRONG.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, yeah. I would definitely want to look at that so we can get some kind of career stuff for you.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So I think then the focus of our work in the next two sessions is kind of looking at shoring up the confidence issue and you are confident.

CLIENT: Yes I am.

THERAPIST: Which is excellent and then looking at some career stuff.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Because you know, I think my objectives right now are, upon graduation, I need to know exactly what is it I’m doing or will be doing so that – it’s like I want to have my job already lined up if at all possible.

THERAPIST: Okay. Do you – are you planning on going to grad school right away?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: I would like to.

THERAPIST: And when are you graduating with your bachelors?

CLIENT: May.

THERAPIST: Okay. Ooh!

CLIENT: Oh yeah, I moved it up. They told me December, I was like nope. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Okay! That’s great!

CLIENT: So I had them move it up. So our discussion is timely.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: So next semester I’m looking at 15 credit hours.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But that’s a temporary 15.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Just to get done. Yeah.

CLIENT: Because two of them – well three of the hours are workshops. I’ll have that knocked out real quick.

THERAPIST: Well good! Hey!

CLIENT: Yeah!

THERAPIST: That’s great!

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So then, let’s not meet next week and let’s meet the week after next. Does that work for you. Let me write this down in my book here.

CLIENT: I always leave my Tuesdays at 3 o’clock open for Dr. Peterson.

THERAPIST: There you go.

CLIENT: That way I don’t have to remember. So whatever day you tell me on Tuesday –

THERAPIST: So it will be the 12th and then -

CLIENT: Oh, I’ve been invited to attend a fashion show on the 12th.

THERAPIST: Oh, I like that.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: And the 26th we’ll look at if that’s going to be our last session together for whatever. Okay?

CLIENT: Um hmm. What’s this fashion show?

THERAPIST: I believe Professor Allen, who is my mentor, had the –

CLIENT: I’m going to turn this off.

THERAPIST: Okay. She had the –

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