TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Good morning.

CLIENT: Good morning. (pause) I made ginger cookies for you.

THERAPIST: Oh, thank you. Mm.

CLIENT: You're welcome. (pause) Did you have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Thanks. How about you?

CLIENT: Mm hm. (pause) I spent the day Saturday at [DMT]. (ph)

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: At a (inaudible) workshop. (pause) I learned the adjective "isochronous" (ph) [00:01:09]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I've heard people say lots of different things. I've heard you say "equanimous." (pause) It was pretty great.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: I learned a practice that I've done a few times since then where you label your thoughts in a full sentence as they arise.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And you don't label other things. Like you don't label emotions or -

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: Or other things that the mind creates.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: It was a pretty powerful practice from what I can tell so far. (pause) Some thoughts, I've done it like four times and some thoughts always come up. Like having the thought that I'm going to tell my therapist about this practice. [00:02:38]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And other thoughts like (pause) um, like lots of like being aware of touch (ph). Like what is, how the practice is going.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. [Like kind of evaluative?] (ph)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But I notice that most of the ways in which you occupy my mind don't come in thoughts.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: They are mostly images and emotions.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Interesting.

CLIENT: And it's not clear like when an image becomes a thought or when an emotion becomes a thought. [00:03:42]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But a lot of times it doesn't.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So it's like this checking in like with your face. Or checking in with this face.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And not having any thought about it, but having like lots of feelings about it. And sometimes not having any feelings about it.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. I'm sort of smiling at the notion of checking in. You know, like the thought is still there but, you know, like [00:04:46] (pause)

CLIENT: I'm stalling because I think I'm (pause) very confused here. My mind is very confused here as opposed to other places. And I was thinking, (pause) I think I love you for you are.

THERAPIST: Um.

CLIENT: And maybe some other stuff thrown in. But what arises are not very (inaudible at 00:05:55).

THERAPIST: Um. Um. Well (inaudible). Thank you.

CLIENT: That's a lot of ums.

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: (laughs) (inaudible at 00:06:22)

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: I said the thing about being confused because it feels so confusing. (pause)

THERAPIST: I think I said the "ums" because I was, um, very moved by what you said.

CLIENT: Oh. (pause) Do you believe me? [00:07:03]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What am I supposed to do with that, other than enjoy it and be hurt by it? Both of those things are exhausting. (pause) In the mornings my like tolerance of my love is very high. And if you like plot it over the day, there is some point at which on most days, especially if it's an emotional day, which like most of them tend to be, there's a point at which I decide that I don't want to do this any more.

Or that like I need a break. Or that we need a break. And I go to sleep and in the morning it's completely different. [00:08:38]

THERAPIST: Hm. Right. So it gets overwhelming and then you feel down and sad and frustrated.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And then somehow rejuvenated in the morning.

CLIENT: Mm hm. I think it comes with fatigue. I think that I'm wearing myself out in my days.

THERAPIST: I imagine somewhat from how you feel about me, but also -

CLIENT: Just how I am.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: I mean like how I -

THERAPIST: How you roll?

CLIENT: How I roll. I work with what I have.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Most days being like really important and life changing. Which again is (inaudible at 00:09:58) but there's so much space between the sessions.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Like this equanimity thing was like very important.

THERAPIST: (laughs) I'm laughing because you're talking about like "equanimity." What the hell are you people talking about? (laughs)

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: I don't think you're (laughs)

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: not equanimous, but in some ways, but in others.

CLIENT: No I think I am not equanimous about many things.

THERAPIST: In that externally as being equanimous often times. But I don't think it reflects the intensity and variation in what you feel.

CLIENT: Yeah. One of the definitions or ways in which to relate to the world in an equanimous way that appealed to me is being equally near to all things.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: As opposed maybe what people sometimes think about having great distance from all things or from extreme things. And thinking about it as being equally connected to all things is so nice. [00:11:30]

THERAPIST: Mm. Mm hm.

CLIENT: Like having an infinite number of friends or something.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: If I could make friends with really [hardened backgrounds] (ph). Or at least work with them.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. Maybe some of what gets tiring is being in a wrestling match with some of those feelings.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah that's (inaudible [00:12:27) in the morning. It's like there's so much more acceptance. It's not like in the morning I'm like so overcome by my loving feelings and at night I'm so heartbroken by them. It's more like, I'm always overcome by my loving feelings and my broken, and in the morning I just accept them more.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And I have a sense that things are going to be okay. And at night there's this urgency, like I have to change it.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: Like there's no way I can go on.

THERAPIST: This is not workable.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: But it's not every night.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. I think you become less friendly to those feelings. (pause)

CLIENT: Mm hm. I want to think more and feel more about (pause) (inaudible at 00:13:52). Because it felt natural to be silent for a while than to, I don't know, [than words]. (pause) Oh, because of the, um (long pause) Thursday is my birthday.

THERAPIST: Oh. Have a happy birthday. (inaudible at 00:15:50)

CLIENT: I might bring cake. (pause)

THERAPIST: Well I don't have a very good singing voice, but I'm happy to do the best I can.

CLIENT: That's funny.

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: (laughs) (pause) When is your birthday?

THERAPIST: In October. [00:16:43] (pause)

CLIENT: We are going to Vermont on Friday. And everybody but me has been asking (pause), "You don't want to spend that weekend with your parents." Everybody meaning like Jeremy and my Mom and Jeremy's parents.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I don't want to spend that weekend with my parents. I just saw them.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)

CLIENT: And I know what that's like. And it's [wonderful.] (ph) [00:17:44]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Will it be just you and Jeremy?

CLIENT: Mm hm. Yeah, we need to go up there without Tammy and the baby. Mostly because the dogs have a much greater role in life when they're not there. And I get to hear Jeremy talk a lot more. I think it's probably the same way with him with my brother (ph) when I'm there. He talks a lot to me but he doesn't talk that much to Jeremy. (ph) [00:18:26]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (long pause)

CLIENT: Do you feel attached to my love? (pause)

THERAPIST: Hm. (pause) [Well, I'm thinking how I can answer that one.] (ph) (pause) Um. (pause) Do you want me to be? [00:19:40]

CLIENT: Um. Yes. But it's also one of those magical things to me if you aren't.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And I want that. I want to really to love that way a little bit.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (long pause)

CLIENT: I dreamt that the patient of yours that I saw tried to kiss Jeremy. [00:21:03]

THERAPIST: The patient of mine that you saw. Which patient?

CLIENT: [The one that came in today.] (ph)

THERAPIST: The one that came in today tried to kiss Jeremy?

CLIENT: In the midst of this very complicated water family gathering dream.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: We were all learning how to sea kayak in these like little pods. Except it was like a rudder (ph) and you feel like part of it that was like a kayak. You had to kind of paddle.. But those pods were very strange.

THERAPIST: What were they like?

CLIENT: They were, um They were, the back was like oblong, like egg-shaped. [00:22:13]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And then there's like a little sort of like area where your butt goes.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And there are like two feet things. And you like strap yourself in somehow and you're basically, I guess, you're kind of like this cut open egg that's floating in the water.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. Sounds like therapy and analysis to me.

CLIENT: How? (laughs)

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: Um. I guess I was thinking of all the like symbolism and association that go on with being in an egg cut open in the water.

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: Like I guess both in terms of like early history and whatever ever ways we're hatching into something. [00:23:39]

CLIENT: And you say "we?" (pause)

THERAPIST: And I have in mind some specific ways that to you, I think I think about it, but I think in general.

CLIENT: And do you still think about the ways in which you hatched or you are hatching? Or do you mean the ways which we are hatching as an entity? (pause)

THERAPIST: I guess I had in mind, in some ways you in particular and people in general. But I think it (inaudible at 00:25:03).

CLIENT: Mm hm. (pause)

THERAPIST: Who in the dream was on the excursion?

CLIENT: All these people. Like my family, Jeremy's family. All these lesbian couples.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Which was very cool.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: There are some lesbians in my life who I want attention from, and it in [the dream] (ph) it surprises me.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)

CLIENT: So she tried to kiss him in the kitchen after the excursion and he turned away. (pause) And I was so mad. (pause) And so relieved. [00:26:27] (pause)

THERAPIST: Relieved?

CLIENT: At Jeremy's reaction.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, but I wanted to like kill her. I wanted to be physically violent with her and kill her.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)

CLIENT: Jeremy had fun with talking about the dream. I think he was pleased that he was dreamt about. [He's usually not.] (ph)

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause) Did he have thoughts about it?

CLIENT: Um. He thinks that he is Jay and Jay is him. And I think he was playing around a little, but that was his thought. [00:27:51]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)

CLIENT: Maybe I (inaudible at 00:28:00) .

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (long pause) Are you sad because I'm being like more analytical (inaudible at 00:29:47), rather than just being more engaged?

CLIENT: Being analytical even when you're not talking?

THERAPIST: Not talking and imagining that I'm coming across as like kind of in like, in my head a little bit.

CLIENT: I am not surprised at all by what you are doing right now, because you are hearing my dreams. And this is what you do.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So I'm enjoying it. Because I'm not surprised. I think I am sad in general. Yeah, I wish you were different. But with the dreams, in particular, I am not sad.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)

CLIENT: I'm glad you asked me about what the pods looked like because that was mostly what the dream was.

THERAPIST: Was the sea (ph) pods.

CLIENT: The (inaudible at 00:31:05) pods. Like, looking at it a lot. And being in it, and feeling like what it was to be in it, and putting the straps on, and feeling what it was like to be in the water in it.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. What were all those things like?

CLIENT: Uh. It was a little scary, but it was surprisingly secure.

THERAPIST: Mm mm.

CLIENT: Like analysis and therapy. And it was like nothing I had ever seen before. And the straps were very strange. They had this like crisscross pattern on your big toe.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And they were like brown and blue, brown and gray. The colors were dark. And, importantly, the way that you entered the water is like the way that you would in scuba diving, backwards. [00:32:13]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Um. Which like occupied a lot of the dream too.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: (laughs) I guess, it's probably more of a looser association. But, yeah, it's like, "Hey, what the fuck?"

CLIENT: Yes. (laughs)

THERAPIST: "I can't see where I'm going!" Or like, "What's going to happen!"

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: "I guess I'm in over my head!" (laughs)

CLIENT: (laughs) (pause) It'll be funnier later in life to me. (pause) Like in a deeper way.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: I thought it was funny right now, but -

THERAPIST: Yeah. Pretty close. I should say, that's not all an association (inaudible 00:33:15) association to me.

CLIENT: Mm hm. (pause) At the end of the last session I was concerned that I didn't make it clear that, or that we didn't acknowledge that I am also here in response to pain and suffering. (pause)

THERAPIST: Oh. (pause) I think you're right. I agree that we didn't make it clear. I guess that doesn't seem new to me, or -

CLIENT: Well, just the way that in unfolded.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I asked how could somebody keep coming back if they're (inaudible at 00:34:35).

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And I said "I can't imagine (inaudible)." And you said, "Maybe. People come in here with (inaudible)." And I said, "Well I think those maybe are the same things." Maybe I didn't say it clearly. But I thought those were the same things.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Pain and suffering (inaudible at 35:00). But it wasn't clear to me that, I don't know, I just didn't want to imply that (pause) um (pause), I don't know, pain and suffering have gone away or aren't as important anymore.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But (pause) um, how I feel about you is pretty special (ph) to, I don't know, it's like [the hinge]. (ph) I don't think it's the only reason why I come back, but it feels like the only reason. (pause)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:36:54) (pause) I guess what you just said made me think of the dream and Jeremy's interpretation of it. I suspect there half a dozen other interpretations.

CLIENT: Interpretation? (pause)

THERAPIST: But (pause) I wonder like about feelings that (inaudible 00:38:41) what he's talking about is the way it relates to your pain and suffering. (pause)

CLIENT: (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Well you were really mad at Jeremy. And you were also relieved But you were also very angry.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Which I think partly comes about from a feeling of helplessness or passivity.

CLIENT: Mm hm. (pause) I guess what was more obvious to me is (inaudible at 00:39:59) possessiveness.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: (inaudible) (very long pause)

THERAPIST: You seem, I think, (pause) more able to be in contact with some of the more negative feelings here. I guess it's just come up for some reason as well. But (inaudible 00:42:07). (pause)

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: We should stop for now. (pause) Do you know if you want to come on your birthday this week?

CLIENT: I would like to come here to the session.

THERAPIST: Okay. And do I that in addition to Wednesday, or instead of Wednesday?

CLIENT: Instead.

THERAPIST: Instead. Okay. (pause)

CLIENT: Thanks for making that possible. (long pause) Thanks for asking about my weekend.

THERAPIST: Okay. (long pause) Thank you again for the cookies.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

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