TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Happy birthday. (Pause)

CLIENT: Is there my birthday cake (inaudible at 00:00:53).

THERAPIST: Oh no. (Pause)

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:01:03). Would you like a sugar bomb? [00:01:07]

THERAPIST: Oh thank you. I would love a sugar bomb. Wow, that is a sugar bomb.

CLIENT: I'm into sugar bomb. (Pause) My rotational student brought a cheesecake in for me. I did not eat any of that. (Pause)

THERAPIST: You celebrated. [00:02:00]

CLIENT: I'm just sleepy because I (pause) couldn't sleep well because today is my birthday and I had this dream about my birthday. (Pause) (inaudible at 00:02:37). I did dream that I forgot your cup cake. You brought in doughnuts, and I was very disappointed, and I didn't know what to do with that. (Laughter) And there were two other people at my session. (Pause) (inaudible at 00:03:18). [00:03:18]

THERAPIST: Did you?

CLIENT: I have a friend who is running and she was (pause) at mile 25 and Jeremy and I were at mile 24.5. Do you want your cup cake now?

THERAPIST: I want my cup cake now, but I (inaudible at 00:04:07).

CLIENT: Okay. There's an Oreo on top.

THERAPIST: I saw that. [00:04:10]

CLIENT: We left our house after the explosions happened. It was a moment of (pause) We didn't really know what they were. It was like one minute after the "New York Times" reported on them and it was like explosions heard at the finish line. So we got everybody (inaudible at 00:04:43) and rode to the marathon. But they didn't touch anything my friend's had. And in the 15 minutes we were riding so much happened in the vibe of the city. And we got there (pause) and it was awful. There were police everywhere. There were army reserve people everywhere. (Pause) [00:05:27]

THERAPIST: So you left your house a minute after hearing the news but you didn't ride to the finish or close to the finish?

CLIENT: No we...

THERAPIST: You rode a couple of miles past.

CLIENT: Yeah. I would never want to be at the finish line explosion or no explosion. We rode to mile 24 which is where I watched the marathon last year and really liked it. And that's around where my friend was going to be.

THERAPIST: Right. Right on time.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:06:00]

THERAPIST: And while you were on your way there people learned enough that the vibe really changed.

CLIENT: Yeah. It was like...

THERAPIST: There were people all over the marathon.

CLIENT: Cops had arrived as we were arriving. We saw 90 runners pass but we also saw the first runners being turned away. (Pause) It broke my heart. It was so awful to see that.

THERAPIST: But maybe the put in a (inaudible at 00:06:34) finishing.

CLIENT: Yeah you had runners at mile 24.5 and there was one guy in particular who looked like he was maybe 70 or something. He was just running, running, and this policeman is like you have to stop. You can't finish the marathon. The runners are like what are you talking about. They were so exhausted, and there was people everywhere, and somebody's telling you, you can't finish and it's like why not. I don't see anything stopping me. [00:07:12]

So this old man in particular got very upset and (pause) they were just so committed to finishing it's like well I'll run extra. I can take a different road. Can I go that way and get to the finish line? And the police are not communicating anything about what happened. And it's spectators and other runners who are like people died. People are getting hurt. You don't want to go there. Everybody's crying. I started crying when I saw the old man being turned away. And runners are crying, spectators are crying, people are running from the explosion like spectators running a mile and a half. We were just there. People here don't seem to know what happened. Anyway... Ben said it (pause) that I looked like I was belting and like we need to leave. [00:08:33]

(Pause) My main emotion was like heart rate for the (inaudible at 00:08:41).

THERAPIST: Thank you. It's very good. Thank you again for the (inaudible at 00:08:55).

CLIENT: You're welcome. (Pause) Have you ever watched the marathon? It's one of the best things I've ever thought of doing. [00:10:43]

THERAPIST: Good. (Pause) How so?

CLIENT: I don't know. I'm really moved like start crying when I see the combination of people strangers supporting people who are pushing the limit of human endurance and... So the elite runner's have their names on their (inaudible at 00:11:25). The non-elite runners often write their names on their shirts. (Pause) It's the greatest feeling to both hear and do it myself somebody call the name of a complete stranger in such a tone of admiration, and encouragement, and unity. (Pause) People run faster. [00:12:14]

I'm a sucker for those kinds of things. I sort of physically dragged Jeremy this year. I'm very glad he was there, but I don't think it's going to be that easy to drag him next year. It's surprising to me that this sort of experience isn't a universally moving thing. (Pause) Maybe I imagine myself as they're running. (Pause) I don't want to run a marathon. I like (inaudible at 00:13:28) people support other people. [00:13:31]

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause) It's (inaudible at 00:13:58) like everybody knows it. Sometimes it's difficult, and people can watch them, and take care of them in a way that others kind of recognize what they're doing. [00:14:19]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And (pause) sometimes even the people who do their best don't know the ways in which they're (inaudible at 00:14:38).

CLIENT: Yeah. That's intriguing.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:14:49). (Pause) And (pause) something that comes up often times but although recently and importantly between you and me as far as my (pause) recognizing, and speaking to, and asking about whether you're struggling here or with us out when you're not here... Not just struggling with them but about your life. [00:16:11]

CLIENT: The fact that they're (inaudible at 00:16:15) so much.

THERAPIST: And this possibly should like me knowing about other ways you've struggled or been sad about I don't think that's I think this is very important. It's hugely important. I don't think that's such an issue between you and me like whether I'll (pause) recognize it, or get it, or be part of it. Whereas, the thing that has been or between you and me (inaudible at 00:17:14).

CLIENT: Uh huh. [00:17:22]

(Pause) Where is that going to go? (Pause)

THERAPIST: What is the thing you seek?

CLIENT: (Pause) Well this week has been nice because it feels nice to have Wednesday be a different kind of day now. I think I was right in entertaining with that thinking that Wednesday morning would change my make me more at peace with my work. I think I was also right in identifying in back to back sessions a reminder of how I'm special, and it's surprising how much that carries me through the week. And it's been something really nice to look forward to. I fantasize a lot about it and it's been a big change. Everything about it. (inaudible at 00:19:44).

THERAPIST: Uh huh. [00:19:49]

CLIENT: And I have a different energy now than I do a little later. (Pause) It's like a special lunch (inaudible at 00:20:17). I don't think it's going to be like that every week because novelty, I think, is really important to me. [00:20:27]

(Pause) I have this sex fantasy where I play with your nipples and for some reason they're very central. I think I have (inaudible at 00:21:20). (Pause)

THERAPIST: Do you know why? [00:21:45]

CLIENT: (Pause) Because I like parts of the male body. It's a nice part of your body but I don't really know (pause) but it's easy to imagine. (Pause) And there's also something really good about (pause) you're being exposed in that way. [00:22:43]

(Pause) This is the time I feel like you could ask me more or want to talk more. [00:23:48]

THERAPIST: Well I have two questions. What's it like when I'm exposed that way and (inaudible at 00:24:15)?

CLIENT: I can't follow through. Some of them I'm (inaudible at 00:24:28) through. (Pause) Well we always had sex but it's really boring. It's like your nipples (inaudible at 00:25:03) and it's like I get stuck on it and focused on. And then either it's just so absorbing and I don't want to move on or I can't and then there's fight about it. (pause) or my mind isn't willing to extrapolate so much. There's too much prediction involved. There's too much at guess work. [00:25:45]

THERAPIST: Guess work.

CLIENT: (Pause) I would probably be a lot more comfortable with the guess work if I didn't know that I would come here and tell you about it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. My impression is that you're anxious about feeling exposed in front of me so that may also be something you want. [00:26:26]

CLIENT: And to your first question it feels really good. It feels kind of like (pause) when you started (inaudible at 00:26:53) or other things like that. (Pause) It feels safe. But it feels like I've confessed or something. [00:27:33]

THERAPIST: Kind of feel a purpose?

CLIENT: Yeah. I have a purpose. (Pause)

THERAPIST: What else do you want to tell me?

CLIENT: I don't know. (Pause) I believe your pants are on. (Pause) But in this particular fantasy I don't really pay attention to going to your belly or going to your waist. [00:28:51]

THERAPIST: (Pause) How am I with you?

CLIENT: You're really happy. (Pause) You're a little You're very confident (pause) and you're slow. [00:30:05]

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: (Pause) I'm just worried. I can't or I don't focus on it that well. (Pause) Maybe I I think (pause) I wanted to draw it out as long as possible but it was sad and to move forward in the fantasy because maybe I'm afraid that you're going to leave. [00:31:49]

THERAPIST: (Pause) Do you mean move forward when we're done or after?

CLIENT: After. You would leave before we're done. You like it.

THERAPIST: I liked it.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I guess I don't see it as being done.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You have to wonder why I would leave after. [00:32:40]

CLIENT: Because you have to go (pause) and then we have to talk. But even if you didn't leave it would still be over because then we'd have to talk. (Pause) I don't know sometimes talking after sex seems really great but sometimes it doesn't. It seems like something I don't want to do with you. [00:33:28]

THERAPIST: Enough with the talk.

CLIENT: Uh huh. (Pause)

THERAPIST: I guess part of why I'm smiling is you say these things are sort of rules or how it has to be (pause) and that in that it's a fantasy.

CLIENT: It can be anything.

THERAPIST: Which means that it's something important. [00:34:15]

CLIENT: (Pause) I guess that's right. I guess that because I want to know that (pause) I want to ascribe qualities to you that you actually have. And sometimes there are great holes that I can't fill them in.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: (Pause) Like I don't know what your penis looks like. [00:35:22]

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: I don't have (pause) a lot of breadth in my penis experience and I don't know... Like it either looks like what I know or it doesn't, and I can't seem to (pause) move past that.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: (Pause) I imagine you making all sorts of sounds.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:36:22) sounds that I think you would actually make. But that seems to matter a lot to me. [00:36:30]

THERAPIST: (Pause) So (pause) I don't know quite how to say it but you're talking about a longing in a way as much as a fantasy I think.

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: And you want to know, and feel, and hear what it would be like not sort of play out a scenario in your head that, you know, could be what you'd enjoy but it's disconnected from what it would be like. [00:37:54]

CLIENT: No, I don't do that. I don't have any scenarios that are rooted in (pause) what I hope it would be like.

THERAPIST: Right. But it also seems like fresh feelings to what you have.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) Sometimes I have fantasies that are disconnected from what things would be like. [00:38:55]

(Pause) I don't think I do. I mean I guess there is that dream (pause) where you through a party (inaudible at 00:39:22) and you were being different from how you are here. But that was a setting the scene kind of thing. If I asked what happened next all the blurriness and (pause) longing comes. [00:39:53]

(Pause) When you think about that does that seem inhibited to you in a weird way? [00:40:31]

THERAPIST: I don't know. I can't tell whether... I mean it sounds frustrating.

CLIENT: Things are frustrating if you want them to be a different way. I don't know another way I think of fantasizing.

THERAPIST: I see. You don't find it frustrating when things get blurry.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Oh. All right. I guess I understand. [00:41:17]

CLIENT: I mean I find it immensely frustrating that I don't know if I'm vexed because you don't get anything material.

THERAPIST: I see. Okay. (inaudible at 00:41:30).

CLIENT: Yeah. But in the moment the frustration about you and us and not this fantasy stuff like this is my fantasy. This is what I have to work with.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:41:54) work with.

CLIENT: Yeah. But it's not like I hate my fantasy. I really like them.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I wish that they were... I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. They're not letting you down. I'm letting you down. [00:42:13]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:42:16). (Pause) Yeah, I wonder why (pause) it's not a big deal. It's not about you and me. It's a very good question isn't it? [00:43:38]

CLIENT: (Pause) Do patients ever get up and leave? [00:44:19]

THERAPIST: Sometimes.

CLIENT: I'd be doing that. I don't know. You paid more to that than I expected.

THERAPIST: No. I saw what you were doing and then felt bad so I turned the temperature up.

CLIENT: (Pause) I think this session is making me shiver. I don't think I'm actually cold. I think I'm very anxious. [00:45:09]

THERAPIST: (Pause) Okay. (inaudible at 00:46:05) me going on. This is going to be a bit of an explanation (inaudible at 00:46:18). I think it may be a little inhibited. Maybe you feel a little intimidated around men. I think the notion that (inaudible at 00:46:41) materially succumb to me I think that some of it's to do with that way. In a way it's kind of more of you and me together. But I think it's also that (pause) it makes you really anxious to fantasize more on your own for it to be more clearly coming from you. [00:47:23]

In other words, for you to be more fully exposed than to what you want, and what you feel, and what you would think, or want me to feel. And in a way for you to talk about that would be no less you and me. I think you'd be more exposed than if I were contributing more or providing more of the basis. And I think we're kind of getting to the edge of that and it's making you very anxious. (inaudible at 00:48:14) why you're shivering. [00:48:19]

CLIENT: Another thing would mean that the uninhibiting effect of alcohol for me is most clear in sex and sexual activity and not in social anxiety, or communicating, or being happy or sad. (Pause) I think (pause) I have more confidence and less fear when I'm drinking a little bit and fantasizing about you. [00:49:27]

(Pause) It's not really fear. Shame maybe? (Pause) Yeah, (inaudible at 00:50:03) is like you provided more. I also wonder why (inaudible) useful. [00:50:20]

THERAPIST: Why (inaudible at 00:50:25)?

CLIENT: (Pause) I sort of hate that I'm wondering about (inaudible at 00:50:37) talk about how to have longer developed fantasies about you.

THERAPIST: My understanding is the goal is for you to be as uncomfortable as possible so you put that end.

CLIENT: (Laughter)

THERAPIST: (Laughter) Or an alternative explanation... Well go ahead. Did you have a thought? [00:51:13]

CLIENT: My thought was about when I'm not here like why is it useful for me to have more developed fantasies about you. (Pause) (inaudible at 00:51:28). I have thoughts about why I don't want that.

THERAPIST: Like what?

CLIENT: Like it removes the hope or the expectation that it might come true if I (inaudible at 00:51:55) on my own. (Pause) It also feels like it cuts you out of the picture. [00:52:11]

THERAPIST: (Pause) How would it effect what would happen to have them? In other words, how does that (pause)...

CLIENT: I have no idea at all why it's so much. (Pause) If I had (inaudible at 00:53:03).

THERAPIST: (Pause) Well overall I guess (pause) doing all these fantasies gives you an excuse to feel like it will put some distance between us or make you more on your own. [00:54:00]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Rather than the other way around.

CLIENT: (Pause) But what if I'm totally off? (Pause) That would put distance between us.

THERAPIST: (Pause) It would, I feel, put distance between us and worse yet I would be the only one doing it. [00:55:31]

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. I remember (pause) not being able to make the first (inaudible at 00:55:56). And it started off a couple of more times I could (inaudible at 00:56:37). And eventually it turned into regret but all three of those (inaudible at 00:56:52). (Pause) They sort of all started (inaudible at 00:57:18). I don't know. I don't know why I've been doing this for so long. [00:57:28]

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:57:35) I actually haven't anticipated whose going to be next to you so (inaudible at 00:57:41). I mean to be clear (pause) my impression is that you felt sad and ashamed.

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: And it was really quite painful. [00:58:04]

CLIENT: Yeah it was pretty scarring.

THERAPIST: That's pretty terrible for you. I like (inaudible at 00:58:13) for you to feel that way when those things happen, I think, it pretty terrible. (Pause) And I thought I heard you say something sad when referring to that being elusive like you couldn't (inaudible at 00:58:49).

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I (inaudible at 00:58:54). It was kind of a wandering path to their heart and their voice. [00:59:09]

(inaudible at 00:59:26).

THERAPIST: The same thing.

CLIENT: Uh huh. Yeah, I was pretty freaked out but then I got to Jeremy. (Pause) (inaudible at 00:59:54) and noticing how uninhibited I feel when I drink and sometimes when I don't just (inaudible at 01:00:12). So that's still there and we talked about it. Sorry. [01:00:32]

THERAPIST: It's okay.

CLIENT: But I'm trying to really actually very vaguely feeling inadequate as we got home with the ability to be with Jeremy; to (inaudible at 01:00:51).

THERAPIST: Not so much?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Jeremy is always very pleased. [01:01:04]

THERAPIST: (Pause) I guess that solves your confidence I would imagine.

CLIENT: (Pause) Uh huh. (Pause) And knowing about the phone call?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: (Pause) I didn't bring enough clothes (inaudible at 01:02:16).

THERAPIST: (Pause) I want to be clear about it might. I mean why would anything that you say about (pause) anything that mattered. [01:02:45]

(Pause) I'm not... (inaudible at 01:03:31).

CLIENT: I'm getting there. [01:03:39]

THERAPIST: Is this (pause) like with the drummers where you've described a fantasy that's happened where they stopped and you feel like I'm saying well you know we'd be closer and this would be more exciting for me if you told me the whole story. [01:04:23]

CLIENT: So they're not so muddled.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Not what I'm saying or where I'm coming from I think I clearly...

CLIENT: Well it's probably true a little bit. (Pause) I know that's not what you're saying but... (Pause)

THERAPIST: I'm asking how you feel about it. [01:05:24]

CLIENT: I've thought (inaudible at 01:05:27).

THERAPIST: I know part in a way that I'm going to speak to is the (inaudible at 01:05:44).

CLIENT: I want something to happen every time you don't (inaudible at 01:06:08).

THERAPIST: (Pause) When you say you want something to happen... [01:06:20]

CLIENT: Well like a (inaudible at 01:06:21) or (inaudible at 01:06:36).

THERAPIST: Okay. You can go ahead. (Pause) So you think about that. I'll be back in a minute. [01:07:08]

(Pause) Sorry I had to run upstairs. [01:09:50]

CLIENT: I didn't think about it. I tried to see if I wanted to cry (pause) but I didn't. But is that a bad thing? Not crying is bad and crying is good but I'm not sure. [01:10:38]

THERAPIST: (Pause) I think you were sounding pretty hurt a few minutes ago. That's what I imagined you were thinking that I was thinking you wanted to cry. Is that right?

CLIENT: I was feeling frustrated and (inaudible at 01:11:06). (Pause) (inaudible at 01:11:16) to cry. (Pause)

THERAPIST: I guess to be clear I wasn't responding to also you're crying but to (pause) how I imagine you must be feeling. [01:11:39]

CLIENT: I started to talk with you. (Pause)

THERAPIST: How so?

CLIENT: I thought (inaudible at 01:12:02) what do you mean (pause) and you say sure.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 01:12:29) I mean how...

CLIENT: You have (inaudible at 01:12:34). You used to say I follow. [01:12:42]

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: I don't know (inaudible at 01:12:45). I don't think it's only your language. I think it's the way you listen and the way you are. I've picked up on some of that at times of I don't know being able to confide in them when you're telling something difficult than how to (inaudible at 01:13:18) pretty difficult (inaudible at 01:13:19). Others felt unworthy. You told me that you said do you want to hear something sad? Sometimes when they tell you that you've made a poor decision or you have poor judgment about something like how much (inaudible at 01:13:46) or things like that. And so I sometimes think that you have poor judgment in inheriting me. [01:13:58]

You talked one time about how (inaudible at 01:14:05) and he's so ashamed of his past. He hated it in school, and things like that, and I find being so compassionate yet so not attached to his struggle; very moved but not sad. And you asked me how did this make you feel. I don't want to make him feel bad so I make them feel really happy to be a part of this dialogue. You don't share in that way much which is pretty significant. [01:14:59]

But anyway I felt like I was (inaudible at 01:15:03). I don't know.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 01:15:08).

CLIENT: I see fire a lot.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 01:15:18).

CLIENT: The day that I had a lot more to come around.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 01:15:31). I mean I guess I could imagine (pause) with that you must be (inaudible at 01:15:46). How do you do that actually? [01:15:49]

CLIENT: No. It's just like... (Pause) Well I asked Jeremy if he ever thinks that I made a poor decision in marrying him, but he never thinks he made a poor decision in marrying me. And he said no you're the package; the total package. (inaudible at 01:16:26) Than I talked to Jeremy about what it would be like for him to think he was the total package and why isn't that a possibility for him that that's what I think about him. So here I'm thinking I'm a total catch. (Pause) There must be a lot that's bothering about things when I say that to you. [01:16:53]

THERAPIST: Yes there is. (Pause)

CLIENT: Like much deeper anymore so you have to (inaudible at 01:17:12).

THERAPIST: Yes. Absolutely. (Pause) You're right. I wasn't clear that that's what you meant. But you know I didn't say to you (inaudible at 01:17:41).

CLIENT: Uh huh. (Pause) It's really important to ask when was (inaudible at 01:18:17).

THERAPIST: I understand. [01:18:32]

CLIENT: (Pause) (inaudible at 01:19:37) to go. (Pause)

THERAPIST: I can see you're very excited but also that you're preparing a little anticipating a little the end of the session (pause) and I imagine you're not even feeling better. [01:21:40]

CLIENT: We'll see. (Pause) Well...

THERAPIST: You're right. (inaudible at 01:22:17) but it's also something you often mostly feel after you leave I think. [01:22:24]

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: I guess it seems significant to me that you're feeling some of this now (inaudible at 01:22:35) with me.

CLIENT: Yeah. (inaudible at 01:22:53). But it just feels like this sterilized kind of extending into this room not that it's gone finally. That's exactly what it's like to feel fine about leaving. It feels like I'm sterilized around these people. [01:23:30]

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause)

CLIENT: I've been thinking about what happened to my dad on my birthday last year, and how bad it was, and how I didn't take care of myself (inaudible at 01:23:56). There is a pretty clear I don't know maybe I'm just making things up in retrospect. But I'm feeling like that was a pretty big shift of my being able to contain or ignore different (inaudible at 01:24:29) anxious feelings and sort of slowly not being able to control or contain, or ignore them, and having them, like you said, kind of spill out and (inaudible at 01:24:40).

THERAPIST: Oh. [01:24:44]

CLIENT: Sounds like it was better then. True but I don't think that you were (inaudible at 01:24:53). I do...

THERAPIST: I'm sure they didn't, but I thought you feel that way sometimes. [01:25:02]

CLIENT: Yeah, I do sometimes. (Pause) So that day was terrible and I didn't stop and feel. How terrible is that? Instead I went to (inaudible at 01:25:30) that week. (inaudible at 01:25:37). Jeremy left and I was very lonely. (inaudible at 01:25:47).

THERAPIST: Yeah. We have about five minutes.

CLIENT: (Pause) He couldn't died in the kayak. (Pause)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 01:26:32) kayak?

CLIENT: He went kayaking in (inaudible at 01:26:34) and then he had loss like two out of five pints of blood by the end of the day. My dad (inaudible at 01:26:50) for 30 days. [01:26:51]

THERAPIST: I remember that. I remember he collapsed.

CLIENT: He had gone into surgery. And my aunt and uncle were visiting from India. There was a lot of running around and he started bleeding before the kayak came at the kayak place and didn't tell me. And then we went kayaking and Jeremy went to this awards thing for me at the (inaudible at 01:27:33) museum and we walked on. He had a couple more bowel movements that were essentially passing two pints of blood over the course of the day. And then we got back home and he sort of felt like he didn't want to go wherever we would go; to the Prudential Center. He was not (inaudible at 01:28:02) what was happening. [01:28:06]

He'd called his doctor on the walk home. He got home. He started to feel dizzy, and asked for some juice, (pause) and it was just me and him, and he (pause) dropped my cell phone. He was talking to my sister. They were cooking a massive birthday feast for me. He was talking to them about how maybe they should bring it to my apartment. He dropped the cell phone, and then collapsed in the chair, and was going to fall on the floor so I sort of just positioned him onto me and stayed in a wall sit position. Like he was entirely on my quads for 45 minutes. Oh, and he seized during that time. [01:29:32]

At the time I felt zero hesitation, or vacillation, or conflict, or anything. All I felt was this is my duty and this is what I'm doing right now. There were no other moments in the world. This is the moment. Anyway I don't feel strongly about recounting the story anymore than this, but it hasn't left me. [01:30:22]

THERAPIST: (Pause) We should stop here.

CLIENT: Were you meditating when you were my age? [01:31:05]

THERAPIST: (Pause) I started meditating even as a kid, and then I stopped for a while including through when I was your age, and then I started again.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 01:31:37). (Pause) Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure. Have a wonderful rest of the day.

CLIENT: I will.

THERAPIST: So we'll do this again next week.

CLIENT: Yeah. Will that work for you?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Does that work for you?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 01:32:55) with me.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [01:32:58]

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