TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

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CLIENT: So what did you do on Friday?

THERAPIST: Stayed home. [00:01:34]

CLIENT: That's good. [Long pause]

I feel stress. [Pause]

THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:03:09] with them?

CLIENT: [Pause] Yes, then I tried to [inaudible 00:03:33] [Long pause]

Kind of been this Benton [ph 00:04:26] thing. [Long pause]

THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:05:12]

CLIENT: Jay. [Pause] [Sighs] Love. Unbearable. Frustration. Sex. Nurture, comfort. [Pause] Infusion [ph 00:06:16] Hope. Surrender. Accept, perform, watch. Struggle, hurt. Proud. [Long pause] Sharing, not sharing. Sharing love, not sharing love. Any word. [Long pause] [00:08:12]

All words, like circle or pretzel, or sweet, or salty, or…[Long pause].

THERAPIST: Mmm. Heart break? [00:10:46]

CLIENT: Also heartwarm. Heartache. Heart make. Hearts break. Word play. Heart break and word play can go to that end [ph 00:11:25]. Heart break. [Long pause]

THERAPIST: Do you know how they really go there? [00:12:28]

CLIENT: Um…[Long pause] I guess this seems like a little more important. Which isn't getting on with it. And that feels heartbreaking sometimes.

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: [Long pause] Usually time and distance are good for heartbreak to go away or to retreat. [00:14:55]

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: That's not the model, either [ph 00:15:03] I mean, in a way, I know you said it might not.

THERAPIST: How have things been in that way since Thursday?

CLIENT: What? [00:15:41]

THERAPIST: How have things been in that way since Thursday?

CLIENT: In what way?

THERAPIST: [Pause] You know how you've been sort of thinking about things between you and I.

CLIENT: It's been all over. I thought a lot about sexual fantasies and I've talked a lot about a not sexual fantasy of how [inaudible 00:16:31] about anything, about anyone. And fantasy in general.

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: Um…how have things been since Thursday? I think I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.

THERAPIST: Um hm. [00:17:01]

CLIENT: Sometimes it has felt overwhelming and unbearably large and powerful. Sometimes I felt really grateful for it and I have tended toward fun. I don't think I spend that much time thinking about things that aren't—like that I don't think are going to happen or even I think are not going to happen. [00:18:04]

I think I favored the part of [pause] my mind which is rooted in reality. I think that has made it hard to fantasize in general about alternate realities or fantasize about altered mental states or be in altered mental states. It's hard for me to enter an altered mental state without feeling some amount of anxiety.

THERAPIST: What altered mental states do you have in mind?

CLIENT: You know, like spending a long time exploring and crafting and shaping a fantasy.

THERAPIST: I see. [00:19:19]

CLIENT: Also like [inaudible 00:19:26]. Lots of people have lots of ways of relating to psychedelic drugs, for example. They've always made me really anxious. Not because I think drugs are wrong or because I'm scared of anything other than what it might feel like to not perceive the world the say that I'm used to.

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: There's just kind of like a lot with Jeremy and me because he's pretty psyched about perceiving the world in ways that he's not used to and ways that he is used to. And his fear is—he has lots of fears in life that [inaudible 00:20:20] him. We talked about that and I think Todd, the [inaudible 00:20:35] came up with that I feel like I have a lot of control always and he doesn't particularly notice when he's not in control of his thoughts or his feelings or his mind. For example, like when smoking pot or something because like he doesn't normally feel in control or isn't attached to it. And I think I've spent a lot of time not feeling in control recently and it feels kind of like I'm [inaudible 00:21:22]. [00:21:31]

We spent some time—anyway I thought a lot about why it's hard for me to answer the question, "What happens next?" And it's really complicated. The fact that this feels like foreplay all the time makes it hard to imagine [inaudible 00:22:14] different—in a different way—like really mean to each other. So like I guess my fantasies are full of foreplay and not other ways of being—I think also I—I think I do have a lot of fantasies and I do know what happens next, but I can't like string them together so I haven't—I haven't really—it's just like little flashes of being. They're not stories.

THERAPIST: Um hm. [00:23:08]

CLIENT: Jeremy encouraged me [pause] in my telling him about this with regard to the sexual fantasy about him and me and like just my ability to fantasize, actually, in general—he had encouraged me to, I don't know, value the little flashes of [inaudible 00:23:35] and not feel pressured to make a story.

The other thing is that I [pause]—somehow it feels really lonely, or like I—I'm without a partner. [inaudible 00:24:10] about you or nurturing and like understanding and [inaudible 00:24:17]. Like you're not—I have a partner that I want for that because of the way in which you don't [pause]… Well, I think it's too early. [inaudible 00:24:54] a way in which you don't actively seek them out or help me describe them or explore them in specifically.

THERAPIST: Hmm…

CLIENT: So, yeah, like if I do this with Jeremy, it's not going to be [pause]—you're not like in it with me. You're not like validating fantasies or [pause] like shaping them with me. [00:26:07]

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: Or [pause]I don't know, giving me positive encouragement. And I don't know why I feel like I don't want it—would I think about them in my head, but I don't. Or I do, but it doesn't—feels like it would be much better to do it together.

THERAPIST: It reminds me a little of what we talked about in regard to feeling sad and by yourself—how you seem like angry and by yourself with it. It feels like if you think about exploring a craft—talk about sexual fantasies with me, that you're again, kind of on your own unless they're kind of rooted in things that could happen between us or that talking about it [inaudible 00:27:53] me.

CLIENT: I could imagine a different way of not [inaudible 00:28:02]. I could imagine it just being something that you encourage and value and are excited about with out necessarily disclosing anything or affirming that something is [pause]—like I think you could be more excited about the process and not necessarily the content. [00:28:44]

THERAPIST: You mean that I am?

CLIENT: Um hm.

THERAPIST: [Chuckles] Tell me.

CLIENT: What else could it—yeah—than you are now.

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: I haven't had it—like much of a sexual life outside of Jeremy or—I think I was much more active sexually with myself both in fantasy and in like masturbating and exploring myself before Jeremy and then—haven't really [pause] haven't really paid that much attention to it since Jeremy. And—

THERAPIST: Let me back up a little bit. How is it that I'm not and could be more excited about the process? [00:29:59]

CLIENT: [Long pause] Umm, I'm not sure.

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: I mean, I don't know how you act excited. You'll have to—if you are excited about the process then you should make that clear. I guess I'm—I don't know, I guess I'm imagining [long pause] very [inaudible 00:30:54].

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: Sometimes that flashes—I mean [pause] talked about some of what I've fantasized about and maybe you can practice or you can explore what it might be like to be excited about the process without changing what you're trying to do here.

THERAPIST: Think I'm more obviously excited about things like dreams or…?

CLIENT: Um hm.

THERAPIST: Hmm. [Pause] I mean I find it obvious to me in how I feel, but I appreciate that that's how it's coming across to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, so okay, if I [pause] unbuckled your belt, took of your pants and gave you a blow job [pause] you might—if it were a dream, you might ask about [pause]—maybe you wouldn't. But you might ask—there's some things you could ask like, "Are you sitting down? Are you standing up? Where are your hands? Where are my hands?"

THERAPIST: Um hm. How am I reacting?

CLIENT: How are you reacting. Is there anything that happened recently to me or with me that [pause] I might bring to this blow job, that I might bring to the experience?

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: Are you wearing boxers or briefs or neither?

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: Are you making noise? Am I making noise? I mean, these are questions that feel very encouraging and feel—

THERAPIST: I see. All right. I get your point that if I'm more actively asking you questions or expressing thoughts about what you're describing—that it conveys like more enthusiasm or—

CLIENT: Normally, that's usually true.

THERAPIST: [Laughter]

CLIENT: [Laughter]

THERAPIST: You idiot [laughter]. You're right.

CLIENT: I am not going to interpret how you act or what you say as being productive. I'm pretty committed to—I'm committed to not—I think I'm committed t like what we're trying to do.

THERAPIST: Um hm. Yeah.

CLIENT: Even though it's hard and it's not what I want.

THERAPIST: Um hm. I understand.

CLIENT: I think whatever feelings you have about me [pause], I'm committed to like possibly never hearing them.

THERAPIST: I really hear you saying that and I think I do worry about being productive. I mean [long pause]—probably—you don't think [inaudible 00:36:57], probably not true reasons that are all that useful.

CLIENT: Do you know how to adjust that?

THERAPIST: You know, what you said and what I could have probably figured sort of better on my own, too. I mean, like [long pause] it's [pause] It's a little for me like feeling bad if you're feeling sort of sad or just—I mean, I know in a way that you're not really exactly—I mean, you might be blaming me at one level, but you're kind of not at another level. If that makes sense. Like in other words, you might be mad at me for not [inaudible 00:38:00] or cross the boundaries or calling you a [inaudible 00:38:04] or something like that. I know that you're not actually mad at me for not doing those things.

CLIENT: No, that's sexual.

THERAPIST: Yeah and I—it's not crazy, but in a way it's kind of my issue. I'm kind of feeling bad for that and I think my concerns of being protective are probably sort of similar on how it goes. [00:38:32]

CLIENT: Um hm. Yeah, another way to say it for me is I would play along. [inaudible 00:38:56]

THERAPIST: I know.

CLIENT: Thanks for telling me those things.

THERAPIST: Sure. I know that sometimes—painful and frustrating to play along.

CLIENT: It is. Yeah, it is. A lot.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:39:41]

CLIENT: I mean, that feels central.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What doesn't feel central is like, spending a lot of time wonder how to get you do more stuff that you're not going to do. That frustration is pretty important and it's there all the time, but—

THERAPIST: Right, but they're sort of [inaudible 00:40:27] about activity is like kind of what it's about in part.

CLIENT: Hmm?

THERAPIST: The thought about what you're going to do or what you could do to get me to act differently is, in part, avoiding the frustration.

CLIENT: I think so, yes.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That's not to say that I'm not—I mean [pause]—I think this is [pause]. I like that better. I don't—haven't just sort of like—[long pause] I still—I'm going to push a lot because that's what feels right and important to me and it—

THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:42:03]

CLIENT: Yeah. And maybe sometimes it comes from just wanting more for me.

THERAPIST: It also has its fun.

CLIENT: It's really fun and it also just feels like the way that I am [inaudible [00:42:21]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. That's different.

CLIENT: Yeah. I also spend a lot of time thinking about -

THERAPIST: It's sometimes fun for me, too.

CLIENT: I know the spectrum of people in the world, and I know there's a spectrum of relationships to the extent of [inaudible 00:42:59]. It just feels like alarming [inaudible 00:43:06] one, like to you and to me and that is pretty central. [00:43:36]

[inaudible 00:43:59] though. Maybe at this time because it's [inaudible 00:44:07].

THERAPIST: This is not [inaudible 00:44:18].

CLIENT: Yeah. [Pause] Are you going to write a book?

THERAPIST: [Chuckles] I had two thoughts. One of them [chuckles] one of them was my book—My Life and Times with R-.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's part of it.

THERAPIST: Um hm.

CLIENT: Would you write like that?

THERAPIST: I probably won't write a book.

CLIENT: My other thought, other than My Life and Times with R-, is that it seems very mysterious to me how developed fear gets [inaudible 00:46:21] and dealt with and after it ends. I hope that that will [inaudible 00:46:39].

THERAPIST: I think it probably will. I think it will. [00:46:47]

CLIENT: [inaudible 00:46:57] was thinking about writing a book. But it's sort of in response to the frustration of how depressingly [inaudible 00:47:11] actually going to write a book.

[inaudible 00:48:25] to a hot water tap.

THERAPIST: I think there's hot water at the market but I don't—I mean, there's a microwave [inaudible 00:48:56]

See you Thursday.

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