TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
(PAUSE): [00:00:00 00:03:19]
CLIENT: I cried so much on Monday morning.
(PAUSE): [00:03:32 00:03:19]
CLIENT: I went to meditate and I cried. And I went to go to sleep and cried.
(PAUSE): [00:03:40 00:03:46]
CLIENT: But it's a very raw sobbing.
(PAUSE): [00:04:01 00:04:29]
CLIENT: I hadn't cried like that in a while.
(PAUSE): [00:04:31 00:05:57]
CLIENT: And while I was quietly sobbing (inaudible) I started singing to myself and I started singing (inaudible). I don't know. It kind of came to me (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:06:29 00:07:12]
CLIENT: (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:07:12 00:07:19]
CLIENT: I'm doing some writing for an improvisation (unclear), like instrumental, jazz, but haven't written lyrics though for it.
(PAUSE): [00:07:42 00:08:02]
CLIENT: But I understand that a lot of brilliant (unclear)as a result of a lot of bad things and maybe that's why they become out of their negative side they become brilliant (unclear). (inaudible) really bad moment that wouldn't have ever formed the way it did had I not been -
(PAUSE): [00:08:46 00:09:08]
CLIENT: So hurt.
(PAUSE): [00:09:08 00:09:25]
CLIENT: I feel so off that I went to the matinee and (unintelligible).
(PAUSE): [00:09:30 00:09:38]
CLIENT: Which is really (unintelligible).
(PAUSE): [00:09:38 00:10:28]
THERAPIST: (inaudible),
CLIENT: (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:10:32 00:10:39]
CLIENT: I feel very anxious. I may have triggered a very strong flow of anxiety or it coincided with what (unclear). Kelly's been traveling a lot and she's back today for a few hours and I stopped in a while. And my work is hard as well and I don't have what I would like to have for (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:11:18 00:12:53]
CLIENT: But I don't think I'm going to have the family (unclear) that are anxious (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:13:04 00:13:14]
CLIENT: Quit feeling as such that I've hurt my mother.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I know.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE): [00:13:16 00:13:45]
THERAPIST: I imagine this is a way in which it would feel much like you could also relate in which it feels I think very (unclear) important to who you are.
CLIENT: And the anxiety?
THERAPIST: It could (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:14:04 00:14:21]
CLIENT: I accept it and I know it.
(PAUSE): [00:14:22 00:15:28]
THERAPIST: I think one reason the grief is (unclear) or makes you anxious here and probably other places, too, is that it's sort of (unclear) of like a degree of "in charge-ment," who's in like (unclear) performative (sp?) then that can be very reassuring with a couple of things, too, but -
CLIENT: (Unintelligible).
(PAUSE): [00:16:40 00:17:04]
THERAPIST: I think (Pause) to me it's like anxiety kind of wrapped up in the "in charge-ness" and the "performative-ness" sometimes and when you're just really, really upset and sad, that stuff goes out the window.
CLIENT: The anxiety goes out the window with the "in charge-ment" and "performative-ness"?
(PAUSE): [00:17:35 00:17:45]
THERAPIST: The control of you don't really have much control of how you present yourself when you're really, really upset and grieving and that's very (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:17:54 00:18:04]
THERAPIST: And I think (Pause) maybe if someone doesn't need at other (unclear) in your life, but I think at some level you're worried that I'm not going to think you're as cool if you're kind of like an emotional mess.
CLIENT: I think I worry that I can't give you a whole bunch of things to go by that I have a lot of control over. I don't think you're not going to think I'm not cool that I think I'm not in charge of (inaudible).
THERAPIST: When you say, 'don't give anything to go by,' do you mean like in terms of how I think about you or in terms of like -
CLIENT: What I do to you when I say that -
THERAPIST: Right, yeah.
CLIENT: Do that to you.
THERAPIST: Un huh.
CLIENT: I don't not giving you that much stuff that I've thought about before or that I feel that I have a lot of control over. So in some ways performing less means that I feel like I have less control over whether you how you think of me but I don't think that actually impacts anything.
(PAUSE): [00:19:56 00:04]
CLIENT: It's hard with other people because I can't really explain it too well.
(PAUSE): [00:20:10 00:20:25]
CLIENT: (Unintelligible).
(PAUSE): [00:20:28 00:20:56]
THERAPIST: I think it's important stuff but I guess in a way this is sort of the main point, really, which is how sad (unclear), how hurt.
(PAUSE): [00:21:14 00:21:30]
THERAPIST: (inaudible)?
CLIENT: (Unintelligible).
(PAUSE): [00:21:33 00:21:47]
CLIENT: The song is going to sound like a sweet song, (inaudible), sweet song, (inaudible), sweet song let me sing a sweet song to you.
(PAUSE): [00:22:08 00:22:16]
CLIENT: Sweet song, (unclear) can come true.
(PAUSE): [00:22:16 00:24:27]
THERAPIST: Well it's a little complicated.
(PAUSE): [00:24:27 00:24:39]
THERAPIST: Because (Pause) it's almost like, it's a very sweet lullaby, I think. And on the other (Pause) you're conveying something about, very clearly how the sadness and I guess, it's longing, I think it's really what it is -
(PAUSE): [00:25:14 00:25:32]
CLIENT: I think it's a lot of sadness (unclear).
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE): [00:25:34 00:25:42]
THERAPIST: Yeah, it's a lullaby about wanting somebody to sing you a lullaby and I think that's how it can be very sweet and also very sad at the same time.
(PAUSE): [00:25:55 00:26:10]
CLIENT: I very pleased you (unclear). (inaudible). So while it was very sad and -
(PAUSE): [00:26:41 00:26:56]
CLIENT: I mean the tears aren't here right now but that's where it was (unclear) to.
(PAUSE): [00:26:57 00:27:05]
CLIENT: But there is something soothing about it compared to what I was just crying about (unclear).
(PAUSE): [00:27:10 00:27:29]
CLIENT: I notice that I can't I don't I'm not like really in touch with joy when I'm feeling very sad.
(PAUSE): [00:27:45 00:27:53]
CLIENT: Similar to what how I'm not in touch with sadness when I'm feeling joy. The second one is more obvious, but the first one is also true. The way that I know joy almost by definition excludes the possibility of sadness but when sadness is around it seems impossible to notice things that are joyful. But it's changing.
THERAPIST: Um hmm.
CLIENT: I'm very good at like explaining why there is a good part about the sadness and explaining and like narrating why it's going to be okay and that's a positive view that I have but it's not really a good feeling of joy. Or knowing that there is some joy there when it's there.
(PAUSE): [00:29:03 00:29:14]
CLIENT: In the (unclear). Like -
(PAUSE): [00:29:15 00:29:23]
CLIENT: Not that I'm saying I didn't feel joyful on Monday but it's something that I had noticed.
(PAUSE): [00:29:32 00:29:42]
THERAPIST: There is something good about the sadness. It's hard to explain.
CLIENT: There wasn't really much good about the sadness on Monday, but in general, there is sometimes.
(PAUSE): [00:29:57 00:30:03]
CLIENT: There is sometimes good feeling happening at the exact same time as the bad feelings.
(PAUSE): [00:30:10 00:30:16]
CLIENT: I think singing a lullaby felt good compared to not singing one.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE): [00:30:27 00:31:48]
CLIENT: So what's going on right now for you?
(PAUSE): [00:31:52 00:32:07]
THERAPIST: I'm thinking about (Pause) what we talked about on the phone and your feelings since that.
(PAUSE): [00:32:27 00:32:35]
CLIENT: Yeah. I felt pretty sad after the phone call. I felt pretty sad before it, too.
(PAUSE): [00:32:43 00:33:04]
CLIENT: Talking on the phone and then attempting to fit what I really thought and then going to sleep over the (unclear) (unintelligible).
(PAUSE): [00:33:21 00:33:31]
THERAPIST: I imagine -
(PAUSE): [00:33:31 00:33:49]
THERAPIST: (Unclear) with me on the phone and singing and then going to bed were things that you wanted to be comforting.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And that, not that they weren't, but that they also partly because of how they were, like confronted you with how sad you were feeling and I think there's no (unclear) about -
(PAUSE): [00:34:21 00:34:51]
THERAPIST: And I guess between you and me (Pause) a lot of that has to do with boundaries and heartbreak -
CLIENT: Yeah, there's a (unclear) (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:35:16 00:35:34]
CLIENT: It's very complicated and so is hard to hear for so many reasons.
(PAUSE): [00:35:37 00:35:51]
CLIENT: And because (unclear) than some of them, but not (inaudible) however.
THERAPIST: (Unclear).
(PAUSE): [00:36:00 00:36:08]
CLIENT: Well, it's hard to be told no.
(PAUSE): [00:36:09 00:36:19]
CLIENT: I think I don't hear "no" so well for a long time.
THERAPIST: I was nodding because I thought you were going to say, 'so often.' But I wouldn't have nodded if you if I knew you were going to say, 'so well.'
CLIENT: I guess I don't hear it that often either? But my parents have tried to say 'no' a lot and it doesn't work that well and (unclear) has tried to say 'no' a lot, and it doesn't work that well. So I have this relationship with no which is like, okay, how am I going to make it into a yes. So that's really hard because well it's full of so much resistance which adds a lot more grief to the grief. And then it's hard because I think you have an answer to the question and I don't think it's right that you should keep things from me.
(PAUSE): [00:37:56 00:38:07]
CLIENT: And I am looking for reassurance in asking the question in the first place so it's like coming from a place of feeling vulnerable and wanting to feel held and supported and hearing, "I can't answer that. It isn't quite I mean your holding me is (unclear) me in a way but not the way I want. And then finally I we may have to (unclear) that I don't think the boundaries are permanent. There's a very strong fighting in me against them and I think I believe that I'm going to knock them down. So that's really scary.
THERAPIST: That you will?
CLIENT: Um hmm. It's scary that I believe that. Like what I don't know where that's coming from. I don't know why I think I'm going to destroy or remove the boundaries (Pause) but I do.
(PAUSE): [00:39:47 00:40:12]
CLIENT: I think that's how the world works to me? So far? So maybe this was like Rachael learns that the world doesn't work this way. (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:40:25 00:40:35]
THERAPIST: We have about five minutes. The world works on -
CLIENT: Like there's
THERAPIST: Go ahead.
CLIENT: Go ahead.
THERAPIST: I was going say, along the lines that when you really want to knock down a boundary or revert to "no", we do. And it's not just that you do, it's that I guess that you inevitably will. This is how it is. It's not like how do I (unclear) to try to get these things and they tend to work out the way I want it or well, or whatever, like that's the way it is it's going to happen.
(PAUSE): [00:41:40 00:42:02]
THERAPIST: You're (inaudible).
CLIENT: (Pause) I know.
(PAUSE): [00:42:12 00:42:31]
CLIENT: (Unclear). (Pause) I'm scared.
THERAPIST: I know it.
CLIENT: (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:42:38 00:42:45]
CLIENT: That it feels inevitable that (Pause) I (unclear) know what goes on here.
THERAPIST: Well I imagine that you feel that we're both subject to the inevitability rather than being able to sort of contain or live with this idea that you have about yourself.
CLIENT: What?
(PAUSE): [00:43:18 00:43:40]
THERAPIST: Well you're saying there are it doesn't feel like a fantasy to you. It feels like a reality and I think you're afraid that (Pause) it's very scary.
(PAUSE): [00:43:54 00:44:03]
CLIENT: Yeah, it's scary and it -
(PAUSE): [00:44:05 00:44:16]
CLIENT: I don't know. It's mixed in with maybe like a hopefulness that doesn't go away and that gives me a sense of confidence which maybe, I mean it's terribly inconvenient because I'm like resisting so much of this and I could be accepting it.
(PAUSE): [00:44:47 00:44:55]
THERAPIST: (inaudible).
(PAUSE): [00:44:56 00:45:44]
CLIENT: Bye-bye (unclear).
THERAPIST: Thank you. Have a good week.
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