TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hey.

CLIENT: Hey. How are you?

THERAPIST: I'm okay.

(PAUSE): [00:00:28 00:01:03]

CLIENT: But the rest of it's going to have to be where we leave it.

(PAUSE): [00:01:08 00:01:21]

THERAPIST: I feel a little tired. Mostly I got in late.

(PAUSE): [00:01:23 00:01:33]

THERAPIST: It's probably (unclear) but not all that much.

CLIENT: I could tell you were tired.

(PAUSE): [00:01:38 00:01:46]

CLIENT: I don't know if this is a sensitive human thing or a female thing but there is this like how your face looks says but I think it's pretty obvious for my face and (unclear).

(PAUSE): [00:02:18 00:02:31]

CLIENT: Can you tell from my face when I walk in what's going on?

THERAPIST: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I mean sometimes yeah, I can tell as soon as somebody comes in and walks down that they broke up with their partner or -

CLIENT: Oh God.

THERAPIST: Or something is whatever. Or happier than you know. Sometimes it's kind of like right there. Other times I'm completely off. Or I can't tell.

CLIENT: Welcome back.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Did you have a nice trip?

THERAPIST: Thank you, yeah. (Pause) It's nice to see you.

(PAUSE): [00:03:29 00:03:37]

CLIENT: I've trying this experiencing this of the first time thing because I want less performance here.

(PAUSE): [00:03:49 00:04:04]

CLIENT: I think there's a difference between like the glaze of my fantasy and like at some point there's like the imminent reality and they don't really match in like the way my heart feels. I become anxious and like wanting a lot of control of reality and yeah, it's just I (unclear) from that more.

(PAUSE): [00:04:49 00:05:03]

CLIENT: So it's like, Jay's office is on the second floor, floor #2.

(PAUSE): [00:05:08 00:05:19]

CLIENT: (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs) That did it, huh?

CLIENT: No. That was the extent -

THERAPIST: As far as it went?

CLIENT: That's what I was able to extract.

(PAUSE): [00:05:31 00:05:38]

CLIENT: I had a really nice weekend and it made a huge difference that you were away than here. Like that boundary that somehow helps me thrive I think.

THERAPIST: Like you miss me less over the weekend knowing I was away?

CLIENT: I missed you a lot but I didn't want to get in touch with you. I treated you as completely inaccessible -

(PAUSE): [00:06:14 00:06:22]

CLIENT: Not just (unclear).

(PAUSE): [00:06:22 00:06:44]

CLIENT: I thought for a little while, 'maybe Jay isn't away. Maybe he's just involved with patients and he's away.'

(PAUSE): [00:06:48 00:07:08]

CLIENT: But, I didn't think that would happen because (unclear) anxious about it (unclear) didn't seem to think.

(PAUSE): [00:07:13 00:07:29]

THERAPIST: I had to do a lot of practicing in front of a mirror, too, to come in a look tired. It's a lot of work getting all the expressions right, the (unclear), (inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah, (inaudible). Nice touch. I want to talk about omnipotent.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: You didn't use that word (Pause) arbitrarily.

(PAUSE): [00:08:07 00:08:16]

CLIENT: Though it took me a while to figure that out.

(PAUSE): [00:08:16 00:08:50]

CLIENT: So is feeling omnipotent something I was to have lost like in infancy? (Pause) Or like sometime in my life when I, I don't know is it related to like (unclear) to idealize my parents or something?

(PAUSE): [00:09:15 00:09:23]

CLIENT: I may as well just finish the whole question: and is your are you expecting to sort of like pop that omnipotent bubble in a careful and gentle way?

(PAUSE): [00:09:38 00:09:44]

THERAPIST: (Laughing)

CLIENT: Don't come near me.

THERAPIST: (Still laughing). Hmm.

(PAUSE): [00:09:53 00:10:06]

THERAPIST: What do you mean don't come near you? Do you mean like is that referring to the bubble or do you mean are you kidding because of the imagery of what you said?

(PAUSE): [00:10:20 00:10:29]

CLIENT: It was that I don't want my bubble (unclear).

THERAPIST: I guess I had a few thoughts about that after I said it. One was I think I probably kind of wished a little bit that I hadn't put it that way. It's not because I think that may not be true but it didn't seem to be the most immediate thing. It seemed to step out a little bit from the kind of a thing you were in and away from a fear that you had. In other words, you were sort of both wishing and scared that -

CLIENT: You're right.

THERAPIST: That you would skeeze me essentially or that I would no longer be able to contain myself with you and I think it would have been better for me to sort of stay with your worry and the kind of (Pause) the impression that you're putting on me with it rather than trying to step back and interpret it. Again, the image may not be wrong, it's not that but it wasn't it didn't quite fit with what's going on, but it is right. I was probably thinking more in terms of things like development. Again, not because development's irrelevant, but I did not intend to though it kind of looks that way. I mean they are there and they eventually fit together that way but -

CLIENT: Oh, yeah?

THERAPIST: Yeah. What do you mean?

(PAUSE): [00:13:07 00:13:11]

CLIENT: I mean if you don't intend to put things together that way, but they do fit together that way, why don't you use it?

THERAPIST: Because I think it sort of steps away from what's emotionally immediate oftentimes.

CLIENT: So it's more like for my sake than yours?

(PAUSE): [00:13:37 00:13:54]

THERAPIST: It's kind of like I just moved away from the heat of what's going on (Pause) rather than sort of speaking directly to it. It's not that what's going on isn't linked with history. It's not that I don't see that it's connected, but it's sort of like (unclear) but I just don't think it's useful not always, but often.

(PAUSE): [00:14:39 00:14:53]

THERAPIST: So -

CLIENT: Negative.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I think the main thing there is you feel it's inevitable that like the boundaries will crumble between us because that's something that (unclear) about it or partly really want and I imagine that (unclear) is scary.

(PAUSE): [00:15:40 00:15:50]

CLIENT: I don't mean to make you self-conscious by pointing out when you bring your hand to your mouth -

THERAPIST: Yes?

CLIENT: You don't have to resist it.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: It's an endearing thing and I point it out with love.

THERAPIST: (Laugh) Thank you.

(PAUSE): [00:16:09 00:16:19]

CLIENT: I don't -

(PAUSE): [00:16:20 00:16:33]

CLIENT: I don't like boundaries. Some of them can be very useful. But I'd rather experience the world like figuring out what boundaries shouldn't be there for myself because it sticks a lot more that way.

(PAUSE): [00:17:07 00:17:20]

THERAPIST: (Unclear)?

CLIENT: I guess I don't like to be imposed. I don't like boundaries to be imposed on me without like my firsthand experiences.

THERAPIST: These boundaries you want to be in charge of them.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: So be clear about that.

(PAUSE): [00:17:48 00:17:56]

CLIENT: Or it should be like really obvious that it fits and it doesn't seem like it fits here.

(PAUSE): [00:17:58 00:18:11]

CLIENT: So, wouldn't that just be like I have yet to educate myself about what this is and what this should be. But (Pause) they don't feel like they did because they're so painful.

(PAUSE): [00:18:43 00:18:50]

THERAPIST: In what part do they feel unnatural?

(PAUSE): [00:18:53 00:19:11]

CLIENT: That I'm not responding in a very constructive way. Maybe I am in the long term but this sort of shifts between like being this kind of thing that's a drag because I have (unclear) unnatural boundaries that I have to deal with and this creative challenge like having to do with how I'm going to make them go away.

(PAUSE): [00:19:50 00:19:56]

CLIENT: And all of that feels bad because it's like not with your consent. It's just like me in my own world like spinning around. Yeah. And that's also part of the boundaries that it's not going to be easier coming back.

(PAUSE): [00:20:21 00:22:19]

THERAPIST: We have a disagreement and I (unclear) about where the boundaries should be but (Pause) I guess you seem to see me as someone who isn't concerned or it doesn't feel like it's okay (Pause) for you to want it to be otherwise or (unclear) in other ways.

CLIENT: Like I guess it's more general like that I have your consent to treat this as a challenge and by challenge I mean a good thing but yeah, it rarely quickly shifts between exploration and journey to challenge.

(PAUSE): [00:24:00 00:24:27]

THERAPIST: I'm not aware that it's me that sort of takes issue with your seeing it as a challenge.

(PAUSE): [00:24:44 00:24:59]

CLIENT: That was a nice point. That was sort of an interesting and gentle way to put it.

(PAUSE): [00:25:20 00:25:27]

CLIENT: But because you said so many things you said and none (unclear) that it's me. You could have said, 'how do you know it's not you?' Or, 'why do you think it's me?' Or, 'it doesn't seem to me that it's me.'

(PAUSE): [00:25:36 00:22:45]

CLIENT: Or, 'it doesn't seem to me that it's you.'

(PAUSE): [00:25:48 00:22:19]

CLIENT: Those are all much stronger and less effective, I think.

THERAPIST: Well, I think (unclear) but there is something about the fallibility which is there which I think what I said captures that may be important.

(PAUSE): [00:26:24 00:26:45]

CLIENT: I'm not a (unclear).

(PAUSE): [00:26:45 00:27:13]

CLIENT: (Unintelligible)?

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

(PAUSE): [00:27:26 00:29:01]

CLIENT: I had a fantasy about wanting to be driven around by you in a car.

(PAUSE): [00:29:11 00:29:23]

CLIENT: I think it would be really fun. I think I would like the way you drive.

(PAUSE): [00:29:27 00:29:39]

CLIENT: Like in any car, anywhere.

(PAUSE): [00:29:39 00:29:45]

CLIENT: But somewhere that you know or Mexico.

(PAUSE): [00:29:51 00:30:09]

CLIENT: Yeah, something very vivid in this fantasy about your hands on the steering wheel and turning a (unclear) turn.

(PAUSE): [00:30:19 00:30:28]

CLIENT: In like a confined space.

(PAUSE): [00:30:28 00:30:43]

CLIENT: I don't drive much anymore so there's something really special about being in a car.

(PAUSE): [00:30:46 00:31:16

CLIENT: But that's not much related to anything.

(PAUSE): [00:31:19 00:33:41]

THERAPIST: I was thinking about how the fantasy made me think of you wanting to or enjoying putting yourself in my hands and really wanting me to put myself in your hands.

(PAUSE): [00:34:10 00:34:29]

CLIENT: Yeah. (Unclear).

(PAUSE): [00:34:31 00:34:36]

CLIENT: But that you're driving (Pause) but that answer is still (unclear).

(PAUSE): [00:34:46 00:35:02]

THERAPIST: I think maybe part of the idea is to put myself in your hands by enjoying your fantasy.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(PAUSE): [00:35:08 00:35:40]

CLIENT: You didn't ask me if I'm a vegetarian.

(PAUSE): [00:35:50 00:36:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's funny. I could see that one going either way even if you're a vegetarian or not. So I guess I have to ask (unclear).

CLIENT: Well, I don't know. I don't know if you have to ask. You should ask if you want to ask.

THERAPIST: Are you a vegetarian?

CLIENT: Yeah, I eat too much meat but (unclear) love it. I grew up as a vegetarian.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Well, in a way that you do if your mom does almost all the cooking and she's a vegetarian. So I think I'm in that zone a lot with my own cooking and diet and (unclear) a balance with what feels good to my body. But there's something very, very good about meat for my body, too. (inaudible).

(PAUSE): [00:37:25 00:38:07]

CLIENT: I fell in love with this printer at (unclear) with Ellen (sp?) (Unclear) and friends. She and I have a studio and she is also (unclear).

(PAUSE): [00:38:31 00:38:38]

THERAPIST: What were the paintings like?

CLIENT: Oil, abstract, colors, tech (unclear), texture. Yeah, very bold. A little bit whimsical some of them.

THERAPIST: Were they by feminists?

CLIENT: This painter, Maggie Brown, she also paints in oil and it's a similar focus on color and texture but there's something about the paintings that is so it's such a refuge.

(PAUSE): [00:39:44 00:39:54]

CLIENT: I wanted to live in her studio.

(PAUSE): [00:39:57 00:40:20]

CLIENT: And there are some of Ellen's paintings that made me like them more. You know, I think she's wonderful but -

(PAUSE): [00:40:28 00:40:38]

CLIENT: She has a sort of like hyper, very talkative side that just seems so much better now that I've seen her work.

(PAUSE): [00:40:50 00:40:58]

CLIENT: Like sometimes when I'm really upset with Jeremy or dissatisfied with him (unclear) I will listen to some of his (unclear) and it makes everything feel right.

(PAUSE): [00:41:24 00:41:30]

CLIENT: Yeah, I think I'm easily seduced by people's craft including your craft. It's very artful.

(PAUSE): [00:41:46 00:42:19]

CLIENT: Do you see it that way?

(PAUSE): [00:42:19 00:42:38]

THERAPIST: In some ways I think of it as a craft. Yeah.

(PAUSE): [00:42:48 00:43:04]

THERAPIST: I don't think of an art, but I actually I've often thought of it as a craft (unclear).

(PAUSE): [00:43:11 00:43:16]

CLIENT: There's something very artful about your craft (unclear). I think of it as a craft, too, or at least my experience of it as a craft where the object being crafted is like what's happening between us, but -

THERAPIST: (Chuckles) Where the object is you. I mean (chuckle) like (unclear) amount of the craft involves getting out of the way meaning it in a good way.

CLIENT: Yeah, the object is me?

THERAPIST: Like -

(PAUSE): [00:44:17 00:44:24]

THERAPIST: You're right. Like in a way the object is what's going on between us, really.

(PAUSE): [00:44:28 00:44:42

THERAPIST: Don't be leaving yourself out of it. I guess that's my kind of -

CLIENT: Stop leaving myself out of it? Like I'm crafting, too?

THERAPIST: Well, absolutely.

CLIENT: Or, I'm the object, too.

THERAPIST: All of that.

(PAUSE): [00:44:56 00:45:04]

CLIENT: Okay, I guess that's right what you -

(PAUSE): [00:45:13 00:45:32]

THERAPIST: A little goofy, but it's like the craft is me, the art is you.

CLIENT: Ah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

(PAUSE): [00:45:40 00:46:08]

CLIENT: So where does us fall in -

(PAUSE): [00:46:17 00:46:41]

THERAPIST: Somehow right in the middle of it but I don't really know a neat way to put it.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) Neat shoes.

THERAPIST: Thanks.

(PAUSE): [00:46:50 00:47:19]

THERAPIST: See you Thursday.

END TRANSCRIPT