TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Good morning.

(Pause): [00:00:17 00:00:43]

THERAPIST: It's a wet morning for riding your bike. Be careful.

CLIENT: Thanks. You're worried about my riding my bike?

THERAPIST: When it's raining, all wet, riding your bike during rush hour.

CLIENT: I didn't exactly have the greatest plans this morning. I didn't really plan to ride my bike but at 9:09 it was looking pretty good. How are you doing?

THERAPIST: I'm all right. I'm doing okay.

CLIENT: Good.

Pause): [00:01:31 00:01:43]

CLIENT: It's good to see you.

THERAPIST: Good to see you, too.

CLIENT: Thanks. (inaudible). It's (unclear) really, really hard.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Okay. A lot of painting. Not so much I haven't really been feeling so much really, really empty and (unclear) darkness. I've been feeling really, really strong heartbreak and missing you sometimes so strong. There was one day where it lasted for like seven hours like this blood-sucking leech.

(Pause): [00:02:53 00:03:06]

CLIENT: (Laughs) It was okay.

THERAPIST: It doesn't sound okay.

CLIENT: It was it's how I miss people so it's not boring that part isn't boring.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But it was awful. So much of things are hard because they're foreign.

(Pause): [00:03:26 00:03:34]

CLIENT: But it was still awful. It's not really a way to be. Or maybe if I thought it was a way to be, it would be easier to be that way.

(Pause): [00:03:50 00:04:21]

CLIENT: I'm feeling really lubricated by my dream last night.

(Pause): [00:04:25 00:04:31]

CLIENT: Emotionally lubricated. (Laughs) Just so we're clear.

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: The dream was a really nice antidote to a very traumatic sleepwalking incident that happened earlier in the night.

THERAPIST: Oh my gosh.

CLIENT: Have I told you about my sleepwalking (unclear)?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: Are you sure?

THERAPIST: Pretty sure.

CLIENT: I think I also get this from my dad. I just inherited that whole part of whatever part his sleep chromosomes are. I found myself this has happened once before with the same photograph a photograph of this woman and dream of this ocean next to my bed, so this big and it's attached to the wall by like a piece of twine and like a bracket and just this morning about 1 a.m., I found myself like yanking the photograph off the wall and I've done this once before. I don't remember what happened that time but it was more gentle before. But I couldn't really see, I couldn't really control my actions but I was aware, but then woke up, but was half asleep. And we had a big talk this morning about how have to be gentle with sleepwalkers. He was not gentle and he thought he was being gentle. He was like, 'what are you doing?' And like, 'stop, please stop.' And I think I responded, 'what exactly is the goal here?' And then when he said, 'please stop,' I said, 'I'm trying but it's twisted.' And he said, 'are you awake?' And I answered yes and I remember answering yes but don't remember being able to control like my hands and I remember being so terrified and upset and like totally traumatized at the moment.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: So eventually I like pulled the bracket off the wall and the photograph and I fully woke up and put it down and tried to go back to sleep, but I was really like shaken up so I woke Jeremy up again. We talked for a while. And then I had to pee and he had to pee and the dryer was making a lot of noise and eventually I settled down to flower gardens and went back to sleep.

THERAPIST: Flower gardens?

CLIENT: The ones in my heart. It's an imagery I that I've been finding really, really useful. I've gotten some peace.

(Pause): [00:08:35 00:08:47]

CLIENT: My dad sleepwalks sometimes. He did a lot during his PhD and he was much worse. He would roam around the house and he walked through a glass door once and (inaudible). He was okay.

THERAPIST: What happened? I mean, he was okay but (unclear) doors?

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:09:19 00:09:48]

CLIENT: What happened to your those shoes that showed up one day?

THERAPIST: Those are my older shoes and I couldn't these shoes so I wore those shoes. But you liked those shoes.

CLIENT: I liked them. I like these, too. I think you need a leather bag.

THERAPIST: I have one that I used to bring.

CLIENT: What's it like?

THERAPIST: It's mostly black with brown trim. It's a cool shape. It looks like a briefcase but it's not as wide as a briefcase. And it's really (unclear).

CLIENT: Do you have a strap?

THERAPIST: Like for your shoulder?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It does, but I took it off. But the handle broke and I haven't gotten it fixed.

CLIENT: Yeah, straps are sturdy. But you already have one. So the dream later in the night was this Jay/Carla love fest with no touching and no sexualness. It was like maybe what it would be like if you crossed all the other boundaries, so it was dark and really late at night. You were lying here. I think I was sitting there, but we were very close to each other and it reminds me of another dream I had a couple of weeks ago where the whole dream was just us like holding hands but the way that you would like during a long concert or a long play, or something, started like playful and exploratory and I think Jeremy and I have done a lot of exploring each other's hands and massaging each other hands. I like to push his cuticles down which he hates (inaudible). So I don't know if this is during a session thing but the whole dream was just my hand in yours. And so yesterday's dream was kind of like that but there was no touching.

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:13:20 00:13:30]

THERAPIST: But very emotionally in it and -

(Pause): [00:13:34 00:13:42]

THERAPIST: Without boundaries.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I kind of I got the feeling that I was your only patient and -

(Pause): [00:13:51 00:14:06]

CLIENT: How long do you think it took me to start having feelings for you? Because I think I know.

THERAPIST: (Pause) So this is a quiz question.

CLIENT: Yes.

(Pause): [00:14:21 00:14:32]

THERAPIST: Two and a half or three months?

CLIENT: How about three weeks? But I'm just realizing it now.

(Pause): [00:14:39 00:14:49]

CLIENT: I think like the sex and I don't when we started, but second or third week. We'd met earlier in the week and then you were supposed to e-mail me. Another time I think we had probably met on Monday and I hadn't heard from you the whole week and I was so, so like uncomfortable and I was really upset and I was I don't know, I remember talking a lot about it with Jeremy. 'Do you think Jay died? That's probably the only way he wouldn't have gotten in touch with me,' because I couldn't because like the other alternative was that you didn't care. Somehow I wasn't entertaining the alternative that you forgot. So that would mean, he doesn't care or he died. He must have died because the -

THERAPIST: Right. (inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah, and Jeremy was like, 'you are crazy.' (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: You're really asking again? So you called Friday night and left and I still have the voice mail you left this long, sweet, very apologetic voice mail and I was so happy. I was really giddy and relieved. But then I don't think I really paid that much attention to how happy to hearing from you made me feel and I sort of played it out, played it cool or something.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you played a few things cool, back in those days.

CLIENT: I do it a lot.

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:17:14 00:17:23]

CLIENT: I've done it a lot. It's an effective technique sometimes.

(Pause): [00:17:28 00:17:37]

CLIENT: But not so much here, but maybe.

THERAPIST: Hmm. I don't know. I don't think so.

CLIENT: I don't think so. I mean I don't know what I was trying to get, I kept forgetting somehow. I was just making believe something I wasn't really was completely (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Yeah. And -

(Pause): [00:18:08 00:18:15]

THERAPIST: You don't do this anymore, but I think there was also like, there was you didn't want to know ways you felt dependent.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think it's still true.

(Pause): [00:18:37 00:18:48]

CLIENT: Yeah, feeling dependent is like this huge, there's a huge thing when I was growing up. Like I was always in conflict with my parents about it.

(Pause): [00:19:02 00:19:11]

CLIENT: I don't know if my brother was so much, if he felt (inaudible) and often very excited but just like this blood-sucking leech relationship with not being able to have somebody I want, and always the same, if not stronger (inaudible). Sort of like I can't get your face out of my head. I can't get the possibility that you might be where I am, that you might show up. Wondering what you're doing, wondering what it looks like, sounds like, what it feels like for hours, and hours and hours. And I think all of that is there always but it's still like volumes (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:20:35 00:20:49]

CLIENT: So in the dream I told you that, I asked you the same question I asked you and I told you about the voice mail and I thought that I had started having feelings for you then and I don't know what you said. You were joyous or something. And then you pointed out some date, like April 11th or something where like that was the day that you remember being really annoyed with me and that was such a nice thing to talk about with you. It was so it was such a relief, felt so good and it was strange that that was part of the love fest, but it was.

(Pause): [00:21:49 00:21:57]

CLIENT: Oh, you were annoyed with me because I was talking about victimization of pornography actors and actresses or something like that.

THERAPIST: You were talking about the victimization of pornography and actors and actresses and I was annoyed with you for talking about that?

CLIENT: You didn't explain anything about what made you annoyed.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Like that was the day that you were talking about that.

THERAPIST: I see.

(Pause): [00:22:26 00:22:34]

THERAPIST: But it was really like my feelings and responses to you that were front and center.

CLIENT: Yeah. It was like thank God.

THERAPIST: Finally, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:22:46 00:23:36]

THERAPIST: Well, I don't know. Yeah, there are a few things that stand out to me but I don't really know yet what to say about them. One is I think there's probably something going on with the sleepwalking and particularly your saying, 'what's the goal here anyway?' It sounds like it could apply.

CLIENT: You're saying, the violence? (inaudible).

THERAPIST: And I kind of imagine you worry and feel crummy when you worry yourself about being like a leech.

CLIENT: Um. (Pause) Oh, well in that, in the really hard times it's like you are like a leech, and you're saying that I'm also worrying about being a leech I worry about being -

THERAPIST: I think so. I mean -

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: I think it's a shitty worry but I think you have it.

CLIENT: You mean being a leech.

THERAPIST: It's crummy, I mean like -

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, it's not really the way I am that I know.

Pause): [00:25:32 00:25:41]

THERAPIST: And it's really not the way you want to feel yourself to be. But I think you worry.

(Pause): [00:25:45 00:26:07]

CLIENT: But it's hard surrendering your pain to a whole (unclear) upsetting your, or breaking (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:26:25 00:26:34]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:26:34 [00:26:50]

CLIENT: My other relationships it feels very productive. Well, a little bit productive because it can get like converted into sharing something together. Like I wonder a lot about it with friends and family and how they feel about what's going on their life and it's usually something that is really positive between me and other people. But I don't know how it gets there. It feels like it's been (inaudible) probably.

(Pause): [00:28:05 00:28:52]

THERAPIST: I think that's very important, actually.

CLIENT: As opposed to the other things, which aren't important at all.

THERAPIST: That's exactly what I meant. (Laughs) I'm glad you picked up on that. You're right.

(Pause): [00:29:13 00:29:25]

THERAPIST: I think there's something about feeling dependent, how intense that can get. How much to not want to see it and how usually you kind of work on that feeling like I'm not sure how that sort of feels isn't quite right but it kind of works into the relationships that you have and relates how you get close to people and isn't working, didn't quite work in here that way. I mean it is probably in some ways but not in other ways, like you say. But there is some kind of way you are with people that that all seems to be pretty central to you. That actually seems to me to be the something about pulling the picture off the wall has to do with that do you know what I mean? The picture is attached to the wall. You are struggling to pull the picture off the wall and getting very, kind of upset about it. And agitated.

CLIENT: The wall.

THERAPIST: (Cross talk) Like -

CLIENT: Like I'm the picture and the wall is you?

THERAPIST: This probably works a variety of ways but that was one way.

(Pause): [00:31:30 00:31:38]

THERAPIST: And the dream is kind of the way you want it to work and the way or the way you probably want it to work and the way that often works which is that it makes you closer to people.

CLIENT: Yeah. I read this short article on loneliness and came across the definition that felt best like that's what I'm feeling which is (inaudible). You know, not like missing important connections and like isolated or whatever, but like feeling like I really, really, really, really want something I'm not getting or needing. Or that I feel like I have to get it a certain way, like possibly the way I attempt to get closer to people by like asking them questions about things I've been thinking about a lot.

(Pause): [00:33:01 00:33:35]

THERAPIST: It's tricky I think between you and me because -

CLIENT: Oh, really?

THERAPIST: (Laugh) Because there are a lot of things you can point to, a lot of these things that you can point to about sort of ways fantasy missing like the sexual intimacy, and like hearing more from me intimacy.

CLIENT: Um hmm.

THERAPIST: But -

(Pause): [00:34:21 00:34:35]

THERAPIST: I think you probably feel separate or alone for more like to me, for more reasons than that. You know, like I saying that that stuff is there, absolutely as it is, but also I think a camouflage.

(Pause): [00:34:58 00:35:10]

THERAPIST: I feel like I'm missing something or losing you there.

(Pause): [00:35:13 00:35:26]

THERAPIST: I think it feels to you that I'm getting excited about my idea and losing being here with you.

CLIENT: I like (inaudible) and not in ways that this could feel more intimate. That has nothing to do with it. The obvious boundary. I don't know.

(Pause): [00:36:25 00:37:00]

CLIENT: (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:37:04 00:37:36]

THERAPIST: Well, I think that's probably a lot of what is happening. Like talking about things that are hard to talk about, and make sense about it, (inaudible). Like ways you (inaudible).

CLIENT: What comes to mind is I'm doing all the work, which I don't actually feel but I feel that right now in response to talking about how (inaudible) I'm being. Like I talk about certain things and I think certain things are hard to talk about and we talk about anyway.

(Pause): [00:39:01 00:39:15]

CLIENT: And you listen and comment in a sort of unconditional way.

(Pause): [00:39:18 00:39:28]

CLIENT: But I don't know what you're doing that's hard to -

(Pause): [00:39:32 00:40:08]

THERAPIST: Well, I can give you a straight answer but let me think about your question.

(Pause): [00:40:12 00:40:28]

THERAPIST: Like in a way I guess to you it would feel emotionally like I'm working or taking risks.

CLIENT: Yeah. Unless the nature of your risks are a sort of emotional stretching that way you're putting yourself out there is in a form of what you don't say.

(Pause): [00:40:58 00:41:13]

CLIENT: (inaudible).

THERAPIST: How does that seem to you?

(Pause): [00:41:26 00:41:40]

CLIENT: It seems like you're very invested.

(Pause): [00:41:40 00:41:47]

CLIENT: It doesn't seem easy to do. It doesn't seem like it would be, but I don't know why.

(Pause): [00:41:53 00:42:24]

THERAPIST: Well it's hard to be immediate and emotionally invested and at least trying to speak to what seems most immediate and most emotional no matter how comfortable or uncomfortable that seems it would be and could be involved and -

(Pause): [00:42:44 00:42:55]

THERAPIST: We should stop, actually. (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:43:02 00:43:45]

CLIENT: Does it looks like it's still raining?

THERAPIST: No.

END TRANSCRIPT