TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Be careful biking out there.

CLIENT: Okay. (Pause) I like how you say that. (Pause) I think I am a very defensive biker.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: But there's not a whole lot you can do to avoid people's craziness. (Pause) [0:01:00]

THERAPIST: Did you get a message that 12 more sessions were approved?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. I'm very happy. I got it on Friday actually.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: But I think that those 12 sessions have passed.

THERAPIST: I figured they'd get us to about now or something in the next couple weeks or so.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 0:01:41)

THERAPIST: Oh, really? Hmm. Okay. Then I will send it in (inaudible at 0:01:47).

CLIENT: (Laughing)

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) Can you hear the enthusiasm in my voice for (inaudible at 0:01:55)? [0:01:57]

CLIENT: Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I have brownies (ph) for you.

THERAPIST: Oh my goodness, thank you.

CLIENT: Uh-huh. (Pause) My life has taken a very, very steep turn towards activity in the (inaudible at 0:02:28) and busyness. (Pause) So I didn't eat lunch.

THERAPIST: Hmm?

CLIENT: So I didn't eat lunch.

THERAPIST: Gotcha. What did you bring? [0:02:59]

CLIENT: This is cabbage, potatoes, and a coconut... cabbage, potatoes, coconut vegetable dish? You fry the spices in heat or oil, and then you add in the vegetables. And it's really... it makes any vegetable really good, and yogurt. (Pause) Do you cook much these days?

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:03:42)

CLIENT: We cook a lot. I like to daydream about what to eat for dinner (pause) and talk about it with Jeremy. [0:04:05] (Pause) I made something really cool yesterday.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: It was Ida's (sp?) baby shower?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And that's where the (inaudible at 0:04:29) are from. And you're supposed to make scrapbook pages. And there's... do you know about scrapbooking?

THERAPIST: Probably not.

CLIENT: I don't know... I still don't understand what it is.

THERAPIST: Okay. I mean, I know literally what a scrapbook is, what you put in it. [0:05:02] But it sounds like you're referring to...

CLIENT: I think it's an activity that some people enjoy. It involves putting a bunch of stickers and paper and glitter on a page and then using that as a backdrop for putting pictures or something.

THERAPIST: Pictures (ph), ticket stubs, or whatever else, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, the whole thing seems pretty hideous to me. I would never want to have anything like that lying around.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: But Ida really likes it. So we did it for her baby shower. And the theme was something that you loved that your parents did for you as a kid.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: So I made this.

THERAPIST: Oh, cool. [0:05:55] (Pause)

CLIENT: Is it clear what it is?

THERAPIST: I'm guessing it was a tree house that they made.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. [My dad built this tree house, I] (ph) spent so many hours in here.

THERAPIST: Cool.

CLIENT: The medium of having whole bunch of colored paper around and the topic of childhood...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And the setting of this group of people who, at the time, felt very much like a family and [doing art class with] (ph) my family, it just brought out this burst of really settled or grounded creative energy. [0:07:09]

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: So I go and try buying paint. I really like the mixing colors of painting, and (ph) I really like assembling what I assembled yesterday. I was going to try and combine them. Apparently that's a thing.

THERAPIST: Hmm. Paint and collage?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. [0:08:00] Mixed media. (Pause) I'll (ph) take that back. I lost one...

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: And I still haven't heard the end of it from Jeremy.

THERAPIST: Got you. I did wind up with one of yours today (inaudible at 0:08:59). [0:09:01] (Pause) (inaudible at 0:09:27) there's something that's in a way very you and I think also maybe pretty Italian (ph) in, we've had a fairly elaborate lunch and brownies and pictures and artwork. And...

CLIENT: (Chuckling) Yeah, I'm pretty aware of that. [0:09:58]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: I'm aware of it before I got here. The lunch is how I grew up. My mom cooked day and worked. When I come home to make dinner, I think of how routine that was for her, and it still is...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: How amazing that is. This isn't our homemade yogurt. It would be more us and less my mom if it were homemade yogurt. She doesn't (ph) make homemade yogurt (inaudible at 0:10:42). The lunch is not extravagant from the point of view of where I'm coming from. [0:10:57] But everything else and the lunch is pretty me. If you're not going to go out with me to eat or go to a museum, I'm going to make this as much like those things as I can.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:11:32)

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I sort of do it everywhere.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (Pause) [0:12:00] You sound a bit self-conscious about it or about my pointing at it. And (pause) it makes me imagine... it makes me think that, in a way (pause), I think you kind of want it all to just seem like it happened and kind of had its effects...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: Without there being attention paid to kind of what you did or how you arranged it. [0:13:03] And... as though... yeah, I don't know, you're a little worried about what I'd make of your motives or something. (Pause)

CLIENT: I think I just want to show you a lot and share a lot with you. I thought a lot about what to do on my bike ride home.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (Pause) [0:14:00]

CLIENT: I thought a lot about what to do even before I left. Okay, it's 3:20. I'm more hungry than I thought I would be. I had a bunch of snacks in the morning. (Pause) It's raining. (Pause) What's it going to be like to go straight to Jay and be wet and hungry (pause) and be on time? What's it going to be like to pick something up that isn't quite going to hit the spot or... and is going to make me late and going to cost money and not hit the spot? [0:14:58] And I have to decide where to go. I couldn't think of anything that was more satisfying than that. Okay, how late will I be if I go home? What should I do when I get home? Should I change? What should I change? [A whole lot of] (ph) different things. Should I warm up my food? And then all the while, what's Jay going to think? What's he going to think? What are his impressions going to be? Is he going to ask me about my lunch? (Pause) Maybe I shouldn't bring my bike in because then he's going to know that I biked here. He's going to say be careful. That would be great if he said be careful. Yeah, there's a whole lot of premeditated thinking about it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:15:56]

CLIENT: And I think none of it would have started if I didn't have stuff to do while I was here, eat lunch and be wet. If I had eaten lunch and I weren't wet, I wouldn't think much at all about (pause) what will happen (inaudible at 0:16:20). And I wanted to show you the artwork anyway. Yesterday I wanted to show it to you. And I wanted to give you brownies on Tuesday when I made them. So those things would have happened. I wouldn't have thought too much about it. So it's a whole... I think it's a whole lot of, not performance, but (pause) stuff that I really genuinely want that has to somehow fit in the room and in the time and still make a lot out of my time. [0:17:16] (Pause) I'm glad it's over (chuckling). It feels over. (Pause) [0:18:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah, it sounds pretty anxious.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. It feels like I... it feels really genuine, though. It doesn't feel like I am trying to make things something.

THERAPIST: No, no, I don't have that impression. It does not seem performative. It... [0:18:57]

CLIENT: Yeah, I just want all these things... I want to share all these things with you.

THERAPIST: It's more like you're... that's what it sounds like to me. You want to share all these things with me, and you're worried in some ways thinking about how much you want to as well as about how I'm going to react, how much it's going to mean to me, and how excited I'm going to get about it or into it, and...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. (Pause) And how to do it.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It's not so natural to do any of these things here.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh, sure. No. (Pause) I think maybe you're worried, too, that I'm seeing it as performative rather than kind of expressive. [0:19:59]

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. It doesn't seem like you do see it as performative.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: We're not supposed to use that word anymore because it's wrong? The word, I think, is performatory. Jeremy looked it up.

THERAPIST: (Laughing)

CLIENT: (Chuckling) I...

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Not that I talk about our sessions actually at all anymore.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: But I talk... I use the word performative a lot. That's (ph) something that's coming up that I notice a lot? And we looked it up, and performative seemed like something completely different. (Pause) [0:21:00] Performative. Being or relating to an expression that serves to effect a transaction or that constitutes the performance of a specified act by virtue of its utterance. A performative verb such as promise, whereas performatory, of or relating to performance.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: So... but why does it say performative also? (Pause) I don't know. I don't know which one to use. [0:21:58] (Pause) What do you think?

THERAPIST: I don't know. I'm inclined to investigate.

CLIENT: I don't care at all about word usage, and I don't like looking words up, because I'm not inclined to investigate. But you can tell me if you pick one. (Pause) I've noticed a lot of fear in my sittings, where in my sittings I notice that I'm really afraid of losing you...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And this ending. And I think it's really influencing the way I am here and think about you, think about this. [0:23:04] And I think it's preventing me from really being with (inaudible at 0:23:19). I don't know. More flexible and creative and [various other things] (ph).

THERAPIST: It feels tenuous?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. (Pause)

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Also I think I'm... I feel a lot... I feel really afraid of how much or how little you're just there or here or with me. [0:24:05] And it's... how much I see you, how much you influence me (pause), and what it would be like without it, and how uncomfortable that felt (ph). (Pause) [0:25:00] I'm laughing... go ahead. (Pause) I'm laughing because, when I put my phone away, I reached for this and didn't make eye contact with you. And it's just something that I would have noticed and smiled at at somebody else. And you smiled at me. And... yeah, I think it came from something important, self-consciousness (ph) or uncertainty.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:25:57] (Pause) Does it feel like I'm slipping away from you? (Pause) Hmm.

CLIENT: It feels like I'm getting more entangled. [0:27:01] Even that word... there could be lots of other words to describe it. But when it feels really scary it feels like I'm getting more entangled. And that's scary. (Pause) [0:28:00] I think it feels pretty intimate to me to meet with somebody.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: [It's really important] (ph). (Pause)

THERAPIST: Well, thanks.

CLIENT: You're welcome. Thanks. (Pause) [0:29:00] You... (Pause) I don't know. (Pause) Eye contact is very something (ph).

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: It feels like it has a lot of strength or can transmit a lot to you from... I feel affected by it. [I'm certainly] (ph) affected by it. [0:29:59] (Pause) [0:31:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess... I imagine that coming in... (Pause) In a way it felt like coming in sort of [with this cloak] (ph) or something...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. [0:31:54]

THERAPIST: And [feeling kind of worried] (ph), exciting but worrying (pause), partly about whether and how I would welcome it.

CLIENT: Or anticipating that you would welcome it and that being exciting...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And (inaudible at 0:32:50). (Pause) [0:33:00] And it's a boundary that doesn't exist right now. (Pause) [I should have boundaries, too] (ph). (Pause) I guess other patients do (chuckling).

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: Maybe I do, too.

THERAPIST: You do. All of us do, I think, [of some sort] (ph). [0:33:58] Go ahead, (inaudible at 0:24:02).

CLIENT: I don't know what they are, [even my own] (ph).

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: Something I could and might want to do but haven't done, not just because I haven't gotten around to it..

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, words fall short a lot, or talking falls short a lot. There's so much of life, like, the hour every night in the kitchen or the hour, two or three, every night in the kitchen, or the time on artwork or the time with music or the time running, that is hard to convey in words but is so important. [0:35:20] So I think I conveyed some things today are important that weren't accessible before.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:36:00] You had conveyed brownies before, but thank you again for conveying them again.

CLIENT: (Chuckling) What's that like for you? (Pause)

THERAPIST: The brownies?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. (inaudible at 0:36:25)

THERAPIST: Rounded brownies?

CLIENT: (inaudible at 0:36:33) brownies, lemon squares, (inaudible at 0:36:38)?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: Cupcakes.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause) I'm not going to say. [0:37:00]

CLIENT: Fine.

THERAPIST: I mean, [I will say] (ph) I appreciate and enjoy them. I don't mean to be that coy, but [other than that I'm being coy] (ph). (Pause) Not entirely. I think (pause) this is less about the... [I think it's a sort of given] (ph) that I appreciate that it matters to you. (Pause) [0:38:00]

CLIENT: I can't imagine that you don't look at it analytically?

THERAPIST: Hmm. That I'll have some sort of interpretation or thought about it?

CLIENT: Or maybe it's all... maybe it's part of one category. (Pause)

THERAPIST: Not really. I think (pause) in the context of you giving them to me (pause) I don't feel that there's a sort of a communication there or put something out there that's kind of not otherwise out there, you know? [0:39:05]

CLIENT: Yeah, it doesn't, from my point of view.

THERAPIST: So... yeah, so I guess in that sense I don't have kind of another analytic thought about them.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: If it somehow seems different from or additional or something in relation to everything else, I probably would think about it that way?

CLIENT: That's good, that's good. (Pause) Yeah, it's just how I show love.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:39:56]

CLIENT: I don't have anything else that I... that comes (inaudible at 0:40:07). I guess I ask because I wonder how... I think I want it to be unique, or I wonder if it's unique. But I don't really care that much. It doesn't affect the way that I feel strongly about showing love that way.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:41:01]

CLIENT: I guess I don't bake for you either? I think that would be a different thing, too.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Not... the thought of that isn't unpleasant to me, but it feels really different.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: But in a sense I do bake for you. (Pause) [0:41:59] I mean, thirty-five (ph) went to the baby shower. And Morris and Ellen (sp?) got six, and Jeremy and I got some. But you get some, too. And that was in my mind the whole time.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, so it's pretty... it's just... there's so much fear, and it doesn't always have a thought associated with it...

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause) [0:42:59]

CLIENT: Or uncertainty or lack of confidence or (pause) yearning or longing and being afraid of that.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:44:00] Well, I guess... part of it it seems to me is the fear of... like today or actually where we ended on Monday, wanting to show or tell me about yourself.

CLIENT: The bikini wax (chuckling)?

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) Yeah.

CLIENT: The bikini wax has changed my life. (Pause) (Chuckling) It's really important.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Yeah, I really wanted to tell you about it.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:45:00]

CLIENT: What does that have to do with fear?

THERAPIST: Well, there's a bunch of this that seems to do with sort of revealing yourself, what you think about yourself, which puts you at risk in terms of... (Pause)

CLIENT: No, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: It feels like there's lots of scariness when I share more and more.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I think it's... I'm afraid that (pause) you'll disappear... [0:45:58]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Or I'll disappear.

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: It's very ambiguous.

THERAPIST: In a sort of vague way.

CLIENT: Yeah, well, I think it is vague. The way it is, is so vague. (Pause) Like, what are we doing? (Pause)

THERAPIST: How does that...? (Pause) Hmm. [0:47:04] (Pause) Okay, so... (Pause) I'm trying to think this through. [0:47:58] You're sort of putting pressure on me to locate you amidst ambiguity and confusion, yeah?

CLIENT: I don't... there's a lot of ambiguity and confusion. I don't expect you to do anything. I'm expressing what are we doing as one of the sort of more fundamental sources of...

THERAPIST: So it was an entirely rhetorical question?

CLIENT: I think it was a little bit not rhetorical. But... (Pause) If you have thoughts, that's lovely. But I don't... I wasn't really looking for orientation. I was trying to express to you what's so scary. [0:48:57] (Pause) (Chuckling)

THERAPIST: I'm only partly convinced.

CLIENT: [You reject it] (ph).

THERAPIST: I don't know.

CLIENT: I think you... I think you're only partly convinced because...

THERAPIST: Uh-huh?

CLIENT: You have clarity about what we're doing. (Pause) And that imbalance makes it seem like I want something that you have, and you're not giving it to me, and I'm asking you for it. (Pause) [0:50:00]

THERAPIST: I kind of know what we're doing here. I mean, in some sense I do, but there's a lot of uncertainty. (Pause) Let me back up. First, does that affect you what I just said? (Pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, it was nice. [0:50:55] I want more. I wanted to hear more. (Pause) (Laughing)

THERAPIST: (Laughing) See, I told you so!

CLIENT: (Laughing) What are we doing? What is this? It's so wacky. (Pause) It's illustrating the point over and over again, going back to it. [0:51:57] (Pause)

THERAPIST: I guess to me there's... the disorientation and uncertainty that you are feeling about this in a kind of general way and in a way that relates to this fear of losing me makes me think of the sort of disorientation and sadness that we were talking about last week...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: And...

CLIENT: (inaudible at 0:52:50)?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Uh-huh. [0:52:56]

THERAPIST: And I think that may reflect... those feelings probably reflect something pretty important about things you can experience in close relationships with people? (Pause) And...

CLIENT: You've never said anything general about my way of being in close relationships with people, using that language before.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (Pause) I guess it... (Pause) [0:53:57] I think you do... it hits me how multiple and in some ways quite different experiences sort of all going on at once, of kind of in some ways being very close and connected and very oriented, and in others feeling off on your own or more disoriented or very afraid of losing the other person. And sometimes that latter stuff gets sort of touched off by something...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: Somebody going away for a while or maybe other things, I'm not sure. When you feel certain things that it's harder to bring into the relationship or when there are things that are unclear about what is going on in some ways. [0:55:11] I mean, in some ways I think you know very well what's going on between us or how we... what our MO is. But then there's this other level at which it doesn't make any fucking sense. And I... (Pause) I don't know what to make of that, but it does seem (pause) to sort of run through things we talked about for a while and to be important, which I guess is partly why I'm hesitant. [I imagine] (ph) it's clear enough to sort of say, well, this is what I think we're doing here or what's going on. [0:56:04] Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. I asked you that (inaudible at 0:56:07).

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't feel actively afraid of losing anybody other than you at this time.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: It's very strange.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Thoughts of my parents dying or thoughts of Jeremy dying have... don't have the same feeling.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (Pause)

CLIENT: So I'm not... so I guess I can get what you're saying from a historical perspective, but I don't...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:56:51). Uh-huh. [0:57:02]

CLIENT: What does seem to be (pause) a trend is feeling really disconnected and lonely in the midst of strong oriented relationships and strong disoriented, disorienting relationships...

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Like not being able to have the kind of intimacy that I feel like I need or I want or still feeling that sense of darkness and fear and (pause), yeah, complete disorientation, despite having the same intimacy that maybe I always... I have had for a long time. [0:58:00] (Pause) It feels like (inaudible at 0:58:12) is forming or needs to form or might be the... (Pause) I don't know. I don't know what expectations I have. But it was my relationship with myself, the ability to sooth and connect with myself as a response or as a response to feeling lonely and disoriented. [0:58:55] Or, if when that happens or when it appears, it seems to make those feelings go away or buffer them a little bit.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: And that has to do with... at least formally I associate it with the conviction of... this conviction that I talked about on Monday or whatever day, waking up with some strong sense of what... how I want to be (pause), which doesn't happen so much, in a way. (Pause) [0:59:58] [1:01:00] [1:02:00] [1:03:00]

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause) [1:03:54] I'm not sure if you feel like I have a sense of how much of a loop I have thrown you for. (Pause)

CLIENT: Not sure...

THERAPIST: You know...

CLIENT: That you know how much... I'm not sure that... okay, you try again (chuckling).

THERAPIST: All right, all right. I think you're very clear in some ways how much of a loop I must have thrown you for.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: I don't know if that's something you feel I understand. [1:04:59] Does it feel like I get that, or that I have some more professional (ph) (pause) idea about that?

CLIENT: I think you get it. I expect you're coming from such a different place that... or such a different context and a different perspective, that the magnitude of this for me (pause) can't resonate with you in a certain way, because you have the benefit of some other stuff. [1:06:08] Your having gone through it yourself or experience with other patients or openness to uncertainty, maybe with no idea what's going to happen, and none (ph) of those things color your receiving how much of a loop this is throwing me for. But maybe your tolerance of, how long does this take, how (pause)... not how long it's going to take, because that suggests that we're waiting. [1:07:01] And it doesn't feel like we're waiting, but how slow the steps... how slow the journey...

THERAPIST: How long you're going to have to stand this?

CLIENT: No...

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: How circuitous it feels. Maybe you just have a lot more tolerance for it. So I feel like you really do understand, but you understand in the way that you can (pause), which might be... maybe you completely understand, and it's the same understanding that I have. I don't know. But the differences between you and me seem really important in this question. (Pause) [1:08:02]

THERAPIST: I seem very much outside the experience.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Everybody does. (Pause) I feel outside the experience, too. It seems unreachable or untouchable a lot of the time. That's part of what's so frustrating. [1:08:57] (Pause) It's part of what makes this and meditation so (pause) something (pause), freeing. (Pause)

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And yet there is so much... I feel in captivity here a lot, too. It's very mixed. (Pause) [1:10:00] [1:10:57] When I thought about coming in another day...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm?

CLIENT: Or when I think about it, that's where I noticed fear a lot.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: That's what made it clearer to me, and then I noticed it everywhere else. (Pause) Everything about coming in another day in the week feels good until I think about all of those mind traps. What does it mean? How does it sound? It sounds like kind of a lot. It sounds... it's going to sound like kind of a lot to other people. [1:11:58] It makes me feel even more entangled and susceptible to even more pain if one of us disappears. It creates a really nice... or maybe it would create a really nice... even more a sense of stability that maybe I should be developing as a result of something else. Or maybe instability is good. Maybe that Monday cycle of being just about ready to tear my hair out... but it wasn't as bad this week (pause), maybe that's... (chuckling) what?

THERAPIST: It's a little like your mother's voice to me. And it also all sounds like, and you don't need it that much, and you don't need it that much, and you don't need it that much (laughing)! [1:13:02]

CLIENT: I talked to her about this a month ago or something. And she had two things to say that made me not want to talk to her about it again.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh?

CLIENT: One was, other than saying that she thought it was a bad idea to stop seeing you, that was another thing that stuck out. But one, she said, well (pause), you don't really want to go in another day in the week, because there can't be that much to talk about. (Pause) [1:13:56] I said, you don't know that, do you? (Pause) And I think she knows that there is... there are endless important things to talk about and that it's a really good fit for me. But I don't know what... what?

THERAPIST: No, I didn't have a definite thought.

CLIENT: Then have the opposite reaction, which is, of course you want to go in more days. You would love to sit with Jay every day of the week and talk. That is something that you would love to do. That is obvious to me. The other thing my mom said was, you really want to be... I don't know what's the word she used. [1:14:58] But it's like, because then... careful or something, because then Jay really becomes a part of the fabric of your life.

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: I think that's (pause) something that feels... that comes up a lot, not just because she said it, before, too.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Do I need it? What does it mean? How do I want my life to be?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [1:15:57]

CLIENT: The nature of the intimacy that I want here is so strong. (Pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, and you're really frightened about that.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's frightening. (Pause) [1:17:00] But (pause) things go kind of far below the surface in between sessions. [I'm frustrated] (ph). (Pause) Okay. (Pause) Do you spend any time on (inaudible at 1:17)?

THERAPIST: On what? [1:17:58]

CLIENT: [My case and the farm in Cheshire] (ph)?

THERAPIST: What's it called? Probably not. I don't spend time on any farms. I don't even know which farm...

CLIENT: I think he calls it Cheshire Acres Farm or something.

THERAPIST: Hmm. [It's not] (ph) (inaudible at 1:18:29)?

CLIENT: I don't know [about it] (ph).

THERAPIST: Do you know them?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Brian works in Kelly's lab (inaudible at 1:18:40). But he's a four... six out of seven days a week farmer...

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Hmm.

CLIENT: In Cheshire. He has a little girl, Estelle (sp?) and his wife Selena (sp?) who is (inaudible at 0:19:01). [1:19:03]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And one Monday a week he spends in Kelly's lab. He's just been (inaudible at 1:19:11). Can't imagine why. I'm kidding actually. I'm dying to quit a little bit and work for him.

THERAPIST: Oh, really?

CLIENT: I think about his farm a lot.

THERAPIST: Do you know where it is?

CLIENT: No (ph). I know where it is on a map, but I can't (inaudible at 1:19:41). (Pause) [1:20:00] Oh, I can't come on Monday morning.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Sorry. Sorry that I didn't tell you earlier in the session. I'm going to Virginia for 20 hours for Father's Day.

THERAPIST: Okay. Are you...? Should I try to find something later in the week, or will you be back (crosstalk)?

CLIENT: I'll be back Monday at 11:00 AM.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 1:20:42)

THERAPIST: I will e-mail you by tomorrow.

CLIENT: All right, thanks. [1:20:57]

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 1:21:00)

CLIENT: Have a good Father's Day if you celebrate it.

THERAPIST: Thank you. I do. I definitely do.

CLIENT: Good. It's a good one, one of my favorites.

THERAPIST: You, too.

CLIENT: Thanks.

END TRANSCRIPT