TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: How are you?
THERAPIST: I'm okay.
CLIENT: I have a sunflower for you.
THERAPIST: Oh, thank you. That's very kind.
CLIENT: Will you accept it?
THERAPIST: Yes, of course.
CLIENT: Okay. There's the water and the glass and the water bottle. It didn't stand up at home without water in it.
THERAPIST: Thanks. [00:01:03.26]
CLIENT: This is a sunflower from Brian's Farm, which I harvested myself. (pause) It doesn't take away from the fact that you're a huge pain in my ass.
THERAPIST: I imagine not. (pause)
CLIENT: How's it going to work if I care about you so much? (pause)
THERAPIST: I don't think that's a problem. [00:03:03.17]
CLIENT: What do you think is the problem, that I don't like caring about you so much. (pause)
THERAPIST: Well I'm not sure what the problem is, but I'm pretty sure that in and of itself is not it. [00:04:11.01]
CLIENT: Okay. I feel like you neglect me sometimes and then I feel like you really take care of me at other times. I don't know that I ever really feel taken care of. I think I do in an abstract sense. [00:05:13.29] (pause) In my head I'm saying, but you talked to me on Sunday. [00:06:21.28] Like how could I be saying this. And then also it feels like you should talk to me on Sunday. (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah, it seems to me like you're pining and off balance and feeling neglected and feeling unreasonable at the same time. [00:09:54.23] And me and I'm more or less balanced, together, not turned off, in some sense kind of out of touch then with where you're coming from. Not that I can't hear it or wouldn't try to be reasonable and nice and compassionate about it, but it's far from the kind of [ph] my experience and you're kind of up there in the middle of it.
CLIENT: I don't know what you're saying.
THERAPIST: Hm?
CLIENT: I don't know what you're saying.
THERAPIST: That this is kind of what it feels like to you although I...
CLIENT: I don't know. I think it does feel that way but not because this is not [inaudible] experience that you had. [00:11:13.29]
THERAPIST: I think I mean this is like I think what you know or what you can kind of rationally or reasonably figure out is one thing. Or your sort of actual intentions of me are one thing, in a way, and what it feels like, especially when you're in the midst of it or kind of in the heat of the moment where you're upset, is totally different. [inaudible] not necessarily related or [inaudible]
CLIENT: Feels like there's a lot of deliberate letting go in my head. [00:12:30.12] I don't know how what I think you are feeling or you've experienced before [inaudible] That implies that it feels like you're holding my hand at times, like that's what I really want. And maybe it happens but I forget those moments. [inaudible] Again, I think I it's so the tenderness and the caring are abstract, and the neglect is a lot more concrete. In high school I used to really latch onto these songs, whatever I was listening to at the time, in response to or while working through a very charged emotional, difficult experience. [00:15:11.17] And that's happening all the time now. (pause) [inaudible] I'm much more sad and [inaudible] this is a genre of music that derived from disco [inaudible] house [inaudible] disco and it's like hop hop it's a collage of lots of different examples from other songs and composed electronic sounds and synthesized electronic [inaudible] sort of dance-y. And it's like played in the clubs. We had friends who made this music in [inaudible] into it [inaudible] In high school I think it was much more empowering, angry, and comforting. (pause) I wish you would give me more response, faster. [00:18:05.22]
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: It occurred to me [inaudible]
THERAPIST: All I had was I'm sure you've figured that out [inaudible]
CLIENT: [inaudible] No. I just figured it out. It's very [inaudible].
THERAPIST: I don't know. [00:20:07.22] There's something that [inaudible] there's something about the way you described the type of music that it is, the kind of amalgamated magpie-ish way that it's created. [inaudible] (pause)
CLIENT: Jay [inaudible] (pause) I'm trying to think if I could've described it any other way. [00:22:06.16] I guess I could've. Because that's what it is; it's really quite an amalgam. It's not its own genre to anybody but the people who are in the genre. I guess I could've focused on how it feels rather than the creation. It's very triumphant and sad. (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah, I don't quite have it [inaudible] (pause) [inaudible] does capture pretty well how you're feeling. It might have been the way you talked about it being put together in that. Because I think what you feel seems like a sort of a confusing amalgam of the pieces of which you can kind of get ahold of, but perhaps unlike music, probably unlike music, don't fit together necessarily all that well or clearly. [00:25:21.13] You have sort of this sense of my being neglectful, letting go of your hand, not talking to you, being slow, not being patient with me, but at the same time these other ways [inaudible] to say and it relates the stuff from high school and songs you used to listen to then, but it's not clear how because the mood is a little bit different and the music was different and [inaudible] it's quite unclear. It seems a little ungrounded [inaudible] in that it's not exactly clear what in your experience with me or somewhere else is causing you to feel this way or [inaudible] this way. [00:26:23.17] I mean clearly you are, and clearly strongly, so it is important but it's not much clear how what you're feeling fits with what's happening.
CLIENT: That was clear.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [inaudible] clear.
CLIENT: Well it feels really simple, actually, right now. [00:27:10.02] It feels like I miss you all the time and I want you all the time and I'm crying out for you. And it hurts too much. And there's more you could do to give me relief. And you're not doing it. (pause) But it's not that simple most of the time because I'm also trying to care for this relationship, and I think I expend a lot more energy focused on that than on how much I miss you and how it feels just that you haven't what you haven't done. Caring but it's really [inaudible] sometimes shuts me out or I ignore things about myself in order to I don't know. It's also not [inaudible] (pause)
THERAPIST: What do [inaudible]
CLIENT: Worrying about or thinking, it's not even worrying thinking about how it is for you and keeping in mind the longer term and your having a polar [ph] perspective that involves a lot of assumptions. [00:30:39.08] Like you have a really different perspective from me, and the longer term picture is caring and tender and loving even if the day to day picture doesn't feel that way to me. Versus and simple things, like what are you going to do with that sunflower? And where are all the other flowers? If I start thinking in that way it really it's confusing and adds a lot of anxiety that obscures that cause me to not think clearly about how I just wanted to give you sunflowers and [inaudible] I think it happens in a lot of my relationships. I try to get you to be in my hands more and assume that I know lots of things when really it's much easier and feels better to just realize that I don't know. I don't know these things about you and I don't have to. I don't know if that [inaudible]
THERAPIST: What I got was that you're trying to keep ahold of some perspective or some perspectives or facts that reassure you about things between you and me, like am I caring [inaudible] interested in helping, then you're not needing to know more [inaudible] being able to do nice things for me and keep away. [ph] [00:33:45.05] All the things I think would it help you feel more reassured, like you have some traction because you're feeling so angry, so upset, so [inaudible] Angry that I'm [inaudible] and many times in ways that don't make much sense or just seem not nice or not empathetic or something, upset and sad and longing, and I see [ph] because [inaudible] think about it because it really gets me thinking [inaudible] know what the hell's going on. [00:34:53.06]
CLIENT: [inaudible] because (pause) [inaudible] think of it. And sometimes it just feels dumb. This is dumb, dumb that it's causing so much turmoil. Or the whole thing sometimes is dumb. Not my coming to see you, but all the other all the dirty things [inaudible] clean versus dirty. [inaudible] about that. Well clean pain is like the [inaudible]
THERAPIST: Arrow?
CLIENT: Mm-hm.
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: It's like when a person gets shot with an arrow there will be a lot of clean pain [inaudible] physical pain. And the second arrow [inaudible] is why is this happening, why did I get hit? [00:37:03.28] Why did I get hit [inaudible] how is my life going to [inaudible] sort of we [ph] add on the reactions that make it much worse. So all of the dirty [inaudible] things really dumb sometimes. I really don't have a lot of patience or compassion for it. [inaudible] Where the clean things here is like I miss you. [inaudible] I think that's why I'm reluctant to feel passive [inaudible] session because it feels so passive to be told [inaudible] If you paid attention to the last seven minutes of our session tape it probably would be [inaudible] gist of the whole thing because [inaudible] (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah, I had a thought and a question. [00:42:42.22] The question was is a logistical one about when if we're meeting another time this week.
CLIENT: What times do you have available?
THERAPIST: Let's see. I have tomorrow at 10. I have Wednesday [inaudible]. I may have time on Friday. I'd have to check. (pause)
CLIENT: That [inaudible]
THERAPIST: [inaudible] Do you want to think about it? Do you want me to e-mail you about Friday and then you can let me know. [00:43:59.07]
CLIENT: No, tomorrow [inaudible] Wednesday [inaudible]
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: [inaudible]
THERAPIST: The thought we don't really have time to talk about it now, but I think...
CLIENT: You're scaring me. [ph]
THERAPIST: Well I feel like sometimes, maybe a bit, [inaudible] you set me up a little or set this up a little in a particular way where you will describe something that clearly matters a lot in a fairly abstract and somewhat spare [ph] way where it's then difficult for me to know what it refers to. [00:45:31.16] And it's complicated because either I ask, which then sort of interrupts your association but also demonstrates interest, which I don't mind, but it changes the tenor [ph] a little bit.
CLIENT: Mm-hm. You like to avoid it if you can.
THERAPIST: Well, yeah, not because I'm not interested but because...
CLIENT: Can you give me an example?
THERAPIST: Sure. A few minutes ago when you referred to taking care of the relationship. There was no way I could've gotten from what you said to what you meant. There are half a dozen things like that in this hour. And there often are at other times. And the set up piece, I think, goes beyond just am I going to ask or wait and see if I can understand it or whatever. The other piece is it leaves me kind of in the dark in some ways about what you're talking about, and I think it probably also makes you feel a bit neglected because then if I haven't asked, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about and you have to explain it to me because I'm kind of in the dark and don't know what's going on, and then where the hell am I because I don't know what you're talking about and it's really important. So...
CLIENT: [inaudible] got it.
THERAPIST: I'm not telling you anything wrong, I'm just...
CLIENT: You are. [00:47:23.18] You say that all the time, and you are. The word wrong is doesn't fit, but you're saying it would be better if...
THERAPIST: I'm not. I'm saying I am bringing it up not to tell you to do it different, but because I think it relates to things that we're talking about. Either you're creating a situation which makes you feel more neglected, which is [inaudible] because you're telling me how much you hate feeling that way here, or you're giving over to me some of that feeling of being in the dark and not being sure [inaudible] not being sure where you're coming from or quite what's going on with you, or I need to ask and pursue because that's something that you feel a lot towards me, and it's kind of a way of showing me what that feels like. Does that make sense? [00:48:18.27]
CLIENT: It's sort of a backwards way of showing it.
THERAPIST: People do that all the time. That may be the wrong interpretation. I'm not saying that's definitely it. I don't know. But I guess I'm more interested in what it means than in don't do it that way.
CLIENT: Thanks for the eight sessions.
THERAPIST: Oh sure. [inaudible]
CLIENT: Okay. Can you submit can I use the Yale can you charge sessions to the Yale insurance and the [inaudible] insurance at the same time?
THERAPIST: I don't know, probably. But I'm not sure. I can certainly submit it and see what happens. But because the Yale one will turn over end of this month. [00:49:54.08]
CLIENT: [inaudible] sessions.
THERAPIST: No, [inaudible]
CLIENT: I guess I'll do Tuesday [ph] night [inaudible] Okay, so I guess I was going to tell you that you shouldn't bother, but if you think that they might reimburse you on {inaudible} plan [inaudible]
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