TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: We should talk now at some point about the Monday scheduling thing.

CLIENT: Okay we can talk about it now.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Thanks for being so timid or cautious or thoughtful.

THERAPIST: I have the impression there’s something going on with that. That either what you actually said was a bit like it hurts too much to do it this way. And in a way that has happened before with scheduling. It’s sort of, and unlike a lot of other things I think, it’s kind of like this hurts too much, I can’t do it this way so here’s the schedule change I’m going to make. Okay, thanks, bye. [00:01:36]

CLIENT: Well it happened in October and we didn’t talk about it, the last, two years ago now.

THERAPIST: 2012, yes, right.

CLIENT: That’s what I can think of. Can you think of another one? Oh and I want to see you more, it hurts too much to not have more sessions coming out of another session. Do you feel like that’s the same thing?

THERAPIST: I think that’s it might be. I guess -

CLIENT: You don’t think it’s the same thing. [00:02:29]

THERAPIST: Maybe the other one I had in mind was there may have been some of that when you stopped although it would’ve been that’s possibly acceptable. And -

CLIENT: What? I didn’t choose to stop. I didn’t initiate the stop compared to the October thing that I initiated and what I’m initiating now. [Pause] I initiated starting again. [00:03:30]

THERAPIST: You mean the stop was on me?

CLIENT: Yes. Or it was on both of us in a way that doesn’t involved there is no way that I would’ve seen, there’s no way that it would’ve been possible in my mental frame, in my world view to continue seeing you until the pain. [inaudible at 00:04:27]?

THERAPIST: I may be wrong but I guess what I had in mind is unconsciously that may have nonetheless been similar. In other words it’s different in that that October and just now you know and when you stopped you didn’t know. [00:05:00]

CLIENT: Yes or even if I had known but I didn’t know the point is I wouldn’t have chosen to stop if the logistics were more at all in the realm of what I felt I could negotiate with then. There wasn’t any space, there wasn’t any concept for him or for me that it might make a difference to keep, to continue seeing you. And that was a very strong external influence at the time. So even if I had a sense of how it was hurting too much or something or it was making me really uncomfortable, I still would’ve stopped. [00:06:50]

THERAPIST: I see. I [inaudible at 00:06:54] but I’m not sure this is different. I think there’s another strong external problem that is causing you to, I don’t know quite where you’re at in the decision but think about or stop coming in Monday morning. [00:07:14]

CLIENT: No I’m not feeling that firm about it.

THERAPIST: I don’t think you’re stopping or you’re thinking about it because you don’t want to be coming in then. I think you’re thinking about it because [pause] either there are problems with our schedule or with your work or with me. [00:08:07]

CLIENT: Okay let’s recall that I asked for an additional time before this Monday thing came up. And I said if it happened to be too soon I already had a certain time I could end my schedule right away.

THERAPIST: I’m having trouble telling if you are feeling like I’m saying something that’s kind of critical and you’re feeling defensive, or if you’re just telling me I’m not getting the gist of why you’re thinking about something on Monday.

CLIENT: I think both. Or neither. I think I am I’m unsure of what you’re doing here. [00:09:24]

THERAPIST: Now?

CLIENT: Yes, so I’m -

THERAPIST: I can tell you I’m not going to testify you (ph) why.

CLIENT: No, not yet. Yes, so I’m getting a little disoriented about what disoriented and amused about your not letting this go by. [00:10:11]

THERAPIST: By bringing up the beginning?

CLIENT: Yes, I think it’s good, I think it’s really good. And I think you’re right but I wanted to convey that by bringing up that I asked for another, an additional time. I wanted to convey or acknowledge that. There’s something very painful about being apart. So I wanted it to change by asking to see you more.

THERAPIST: Right, but -

CLIENT: And then I wanted to change back when I had to cut back. I wanted to change back for the separation to have a different rhythm to it. There’s really nothing else. It’s about how painful it is. [00:11:27]

[Pause]

The thing about it just so happens that it’s hard to do my Ph.D. when I’m in pain. So if I have pretty much my whole week to do and this to do, it’s making it really hard to juggle them both. I’m not sure the answer is moving my Monday time. [00:12:46]

THERAPIST: Right, because this is related to sitting in a chair Monday, too.

CLIENT: Yes because pain’s the thing. So do you want to tell me what you’re doing? [00:13:20]

THERAPIST: Sure. Well I have the idea that the way you’re acting or thinking about acting on this, I wouldn’t say I would always think this but in this case I do, probably indicates that there are things I don’t know and maybe you don’t know either, maybe not, about how it’s painful. I’m not saying that I don’t know that it’s painful or that you haven’t said so, but there’s something about the feel of your to me it’s sort of the way you’re kind of gluing towards doing something about it but there’s a little wariness of that October thing and maybe some other scheduling stuff and gives me that impression. So my idea was to bring it up, let that kind of thing out, good-bye. [00:15:02]

CLIENT: Yes, it’s a good idea bringing that up. This [inaudible at 00:15:10] is really good. Maybe because I started to tell you on Monday how I wanted to not have it be the way it is because it’s too painful. I’m shivering a lot and it’s a strange response and it happens every so often, like every few Thursdays but it happened last Thursday too. Do you know about shivering?

THERAPIST: Do I know about shivering? I’m guessing you’re pretty anxious.

CLIENT: Yes, do you know that shivering is the thing that humans do when they’re anxious? It is really uncontrolofficele. I shivered like this when Jeremy had alcohol poisoning at my wedding right before [inaudible at 00:16:44]. I couldn’t stop shivering for the entire night because watching him, making sure he’s keeping breathing and I’m uncontrolofficely shivering. That’s the only other time I remember other than here a lot of times. [00:17:13]

And it gets worse when you’re talking or you’re about to talk. [Pause] It’s really strange because I don’t feel upset but there’s something very, very powerful happening. [00:18:37]

THERAPIST: Yes my hunch is that you are something about the intimacy or how close I feel for having noticed this and brought it up and having how you’re feeling about it or maybe you are in my mind or something. But [00:19:28]

CLIENT: I love you.

THERAPIST: Thank you. That’s a lovely thing to hear.

CLIENT: That’s the only thing you hear?

THERAPIST: A lovely thing to hear.

CLIENT: It’s a lovely thing to feel. And I stopped shivering. [Pause] That was amazing. It’s gone for now. [00:20:27]

[Pause]

I held two people while they were crying yesterday. And with Danielle a few weeks ago that makes three. On Tuesday night Nelson and Peter did a post-op in my office. Got completely taken by surprise when his boyfriend broke up with him after a year and a day. And he lives, I don’t know him that well, he’s just been around [inaudible at 00:23:35]. It’s very intense. There’s lots of feelings all the time. It’s very multi-racial and he’s very intense about it. [inaudible at 00:23:55] impact. Even if I just say I love you the whole time all the anxiety will dissipate. I think there is something about that that is true. [00:24:17]

THERAPIST: Yes, I think you’re right. [Pause] Maybe you’re worried that I, that I love you is too much for me or that I want to look away from it as a passion. [00:25:51]

CLIENT: So by keeping it in your face or keep it near you by saying it?

THERAPIST: Or that’s what you’re anxious about, is my reaction that way. [Laughs] I’m laughing because in a way the problem’s with me, that I don’t want to know that or that I won’t see it or will pretend it’s not there or will focus on something else. Like, my thought about what you said about the guy in the office is that there was some connection between the intensity and his boyfriend breaking up with him. [00:26:55]

CLIENT: You mean sort of that this is one thing I don’t like about drawing too much meaning from what I say after what I say after other stuff that I say, you know the context, because I could’ve said the other person first and I didn’t. And I could’ve told this I think that this story would’ve come up no matter what other stuff came up today. [Therapist laughs] I do. I’ve been talking about it all night yesterday like it was going to come up. You don’t believe me? [00:27:50]

THERAPIST: Not that I don’t believe you. It’s that [pause] well I’m not quite sure what it is. Okay, maybe what I’m smiling about is that I had an idea about the way that what you said about it sort of [inaudible at 00:29:20] the other things we’re talking about, most of it between you and me. And I guess there’s something that’s especially funny about sort of kind of not exactly like an argument against what I’m saying on the basis on how I gather the evidence but it doesn’t really address the central thing. Indefensible (ph), I was going to bring that up anyway. And then [00:29:50]

CLIENT: Yes, the evidence was faulty or something like, it’s what do they say in courts when the evidence -

THERAPIST: Tampered with or something?

CLIENT: It wasn’t obtained by rightful means so we’re not going to consider it even though there’s blood all over it. [Laughter] Yes, that’s certainly how I feel. [00:30:15]

THERAPIST: And I guess I think it’s funny I mean if you don’t think it’s accurate or true, if that doesn’t fit that’s okay and you can say so. But that’s not how you’re going about it.

CLIENT: No, I don’t have anything to take up about the content. I’m just saying -

THERAPIST: That I got it under false pretenses?

CLIENT: Well I’m just saying don’t go around thinking that that was some profound association because it was going to be as if it’s in my head and it’s going to come up anyway. So I’m sort of trying to set you straight like all right, well that’s all. [00:31:39]

[Pause]

Did you even say, something about the intensity at the beginning and his boyfriend breaking up with him?

THERAPIST: Yes. Yes, I think what I said was I imagine that those might be linked in your mind.

CLIENT: I think they were linked in his boyfriend’s mind too.

THERAPIST: Okay, yes. [00:32:12]

CLIENT: I’m really, really, cold. I’m shivering. [Pause] Yes. [00:33:06]

[Pause]

THERAPIST: More than that I because you’re also kind of telling me that I’m full of it, I’m full of shit. And not only that but my methods are suspect. Which is fine, it’s just an interesting time to decide that. [Laughing] [00:34:03]

CLIENT: No, I said one thing that I don’t like about this method in general, oh you’re saying the timing. I’m trying to use the same method. I’m just saying that the timing and my bringing up Nelson’s boyfriend breaking up with him was just interesting, not the timing of my bringing it up. Your timing thing is bullshit.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Okay. [Pause] I knew you weren’t going to let the Monday thing go. I just thought that you would wait until you made the schedule change to talk about it. I thought you would let me have it and then talk about it. [00:36:59]

THERAPIST: You mean that I’d find another time, [inaudible at 00:37:03]?

CLIENT: Yes. I would never think you were going to say dude, I thought that had happened; I thought you would say no right away.

THERAPIST: No that I’d talk another time?

CLIENT: No like what are you doing Allison? No like that. Like let’s take a look at this.

THERAPIST: Yes, well I’ll just take the trash outside.

[Pause]

CLIENT: Yes, I talked to Jeremy about it. I was nervous about bringing it up [inaudible at 00:38:09] but I talked to him about it on Sunday. He said what’s wrong? It’s a reasonable reason to you. Oh I forgot about that reason. The reason, I don’t know what reason I gave you but there is something about showing up in the office first thing Monday morning that sets the week off. [00:38:42]

THERAPIST: I think you said it was one of -

CLIENT: Really different.

THERAPIST: one of those things that you mentioned. You mentioned that and the yawning distance between Monday morning and Thursday afternoon.

CLIENT: But yes, sort of I was thinking about how to talk to you about it and I ran it by Jeremy. [And in turn he said] (ph) yes, when you focus on what I wanted you to focus on. I mean who knows? Maybe you also want to focus on the other stuff. What I meant by that maybe I was nervous you wouldn’t focus on helping me finish my Ph.D. And that you would ask me to take a look at what was happening here between you and me. And somehow, sometimes I was feeling mutually exclusive. [00:40:36]

THERAPIST: I don’t have the sense that it’s felt that way as we talked about it today that I don’t care about your Ph.D.

CLIENT: I don’t think it has but that’s what our intent is about.

THERAPIST: Yes, it sounds like your whatever has sort of been the main of, not that I imagine you really care, but it would be if you’re serious about this, Allison. [00:41:17]

CLIENT: Which you kind of have.

THERAPIST: I have?

CLIENT: Yes, by bringing it up the way you did. Or maybe it’s more like you’re saying I’m serious about this Allison. Or I’ve learned.

THERAPIST: I guess to me it seemed more like I was saying Allison I think you’re upset. I hate what’s going on. [00:42:21]

CLIENT: Yes, I guess I had become completely uninvolved. [Pause] I don’t think you’re saying just I think you’re upset. Pretty fucking clear that I’m upset. Not today only. I think you’re saying I think you’re upset and while there are many responses to that, one of which is doing the scheduling dance which sometimes feels like I don’t feel better, another response is to just talk about it now. [00:44:54]

I think you are offering for me to have the choice of that response. Or you’re sort of helping me see it as a choice slash you’re showing the response that you prefer or that you think might be much helpful. [00:45:37]

THERAPIST: Maybe I’m saying you are attributing to me sort of evaluations of your responses. And I would say that I think I was trying to invite or welcome a way you’re feeling upset that you seem to feel a little bit of [inaudible] or discomfort or shame about or something. [00:46:26]

CLIENT: I think in doing that you’re saying, you’re showing me what you value.

THERAPIST: Which is?

CLIENT: To look at the upset. Or to make space to look at it if I want to. [00:47:08]

THERAPIST: I guess I’m okay if you slightly amend that to convey that it’s okay to look at, if that’s what you want to do.

CLIENT: Okay but it takes two people to make a schedule change. So you’re not saying if you would rather make a schedule change that’s fine too. Both are okay. So far I haven’t heard other stuff, maybe that kind of deal.

THERAPIST: No I mean to me this is if I could it just would’ve felt very different if you said look I, we’re at work, blah, blah, blah, more time, or you get through things more quickly, if the feel to me had been that rather than this sort of slightly furtive I’m going to finesse something that feels shitty a little bit with scheduling. Not that there are also legitimate reasons in terms of your work; I hear that and I believe it. I’m not doubting you on that. But I guess that sort of thing. [00:48:46]

CLIENT: Yes. I think there’s always going to be this other thing when it comes to scheduling. There’s not enough time for all of the time that I want. So it’s unclear how to go about relating to that. [00:49:44]

THERAPIST: I think part of what makes that typical and part of what I think could have gone earlier is that my responses to the scheduling stuff feel like personal responses to your wanting more time. And I think that and that if it feels like I’m looking away from that aspect of the scheduling thing it’s kind of similar to in a way to saying yes I know, I just really f***ked up. I don’t want to see how you feel. Which I think is really bad. [00:51:26]

CLIENT: Okay so that was the sort of thing that you think you might not know or I might not know about how it feels.

THERAPIST: I guess for me it clarifies some of that. It is to me that novel (ph) when you love someone and it seems like they don’t really want to know or really see how that is part of your interactions or part of you wanting this or that. And it feels really shameful when that’s the kind of response you get. And it feels really like a relief and assuring when you know in other words they get it or are attentive to it. And it seems like that’s what this experience can feel like a bit shaming about the scheduling stuff. [00:53:15]

CLIENT: The scheduling is so fraught, so awkward. I’m beginning to see it as a pretty critical part of the frame.

THERAPIST: Did you say the word frame there?

CLIENT: Link. Yes I can see this strange magical power. I mean I suppose if the dynamic were really different, if I were acting out in a way where I didn’t show up to my sessions or I were halfway late every time or came at the wrong time, maybe that would seem like I have the magic power but that’s not the way it’s playing out. Like I would fall asleep feeling like I have a magical power. [00:54:55]

[Pause]

I’m afraid to say so what did you want to talk about today? [Pause] It’s been clarifying to you, all the things? [00:56:32]

THERAPIST: I mean those things that seem to fit with what I was just saying, yes.

CLIENT: [inaudible at 00:56:55] and then wow.

THERAPIST: Well how those relate to the scheduling and what you’re worried and upset about to do with the schedule? And I’m not going to see how much it matters and why it matters and why it didn’t cook (ph). And that’s going to feel like me not really being a place to how you feel but I’m me. [00:57:51]

Which I think is important in part because you are very anxious but the intensity is what you feel will make me want to walk away from it or get away from it. [inaudible at 00:58:34] really.

CLIENT: Yes, I really felt it would bring out something misanthropic about you like I don’t want to know about her, I can’t bear to know about it, I can’t reach. Maybe not as barely a personal not making space for me. But like I don’t know, a place that can’t be warmed, like a cold place that’s there for whatever reason that’s how you were born. Maybe it’s how you were born and this is why you’re here. Or maybe you weren’t born with it and you get it through training; one gets it through training. [01:00:23]

I think I’m very afraid of that place. [Pause] If it I don’t know. I wonder if I see it if it was my calling to warm people. And if I can’t reach you and [inaudible at 01:01:36] in time for me to feel about it, what does that mean about you? And if I need to see that I’m warming you and wanting to believe it what does that mean about me? A person who’s kind needs to warm people that’s going to be shivering an awful lot maybe. [01:02:45]

[Pause]

THERAPIST: Maybe you need to warm people in part to warm yourself.

CLIENT: I think that’s what I called it.

THERAPIST: I think that’s why you’re shivering because of some other stuff. [01:03:53]

CLIENT: You do? That’s cool. It occurred to me that it used to be fainting. And I don’t know if the shivering and the fainting are related. I think they’re not really related but they’re both kind of extreme fits of cold. I don’t know, involuntary. [01:04:38]

We don’t talk much about fainting because it went away when I started seeing you. But it started dominating my life for 10 years. It’s just gone. Sometimes I feel like this is a familiar fainting trigger and then I’m just, I’m aware of that and think that’s not a thing anymore. And happiness may come back I hope. [01:05:41]

It doesn’t have yes whatever it was is completely gone right now. [Pause] I felt like I’m like a grief attractant yesterday. Nelson was drawn to me and I was drawn to his grief and the whole office was sort of helping him and me. It was very tender how he shared the Ashley wants to talk news the night that it happened, before it happened. When he said it he started just really freaking out at the end of the day that Ashley wants to talk. [01:07:42]

Then we, the four of us, chatted about it. It was so tender and so close and he was so appreciative of us and we were just, didn’t know anything. Didn’t know, we don’t know Nelson that well, we don’t know Nelson and Ashley, we don’t know Ashley at all. And somehow I, I don’t know how the other people felt, but I felt like I was right in there with him. I could feel what he was going through and I could talk about it with him. And somehow it was reassuring even though all of our guts told us that it was going to be benign. [01:08:37]

So I was thinking about him all evening and I e-mailed him said I hope it went okay. And he wrote back and said actually we broke up and I am in so much disbelief. And I felt so, so terrible. And any other time in my life I think I would’ve had a completely different response, not like have being there in the first place or I [01:09:17] and then not knowing what to do with his pain or what to say. None of it happened that way. It was just oh, must commune with this person; must commune with this person’s pain. So I wrote back right away, had confidence and a lot of calmness and a lot of just genuine sort of, yes confidence and the words I’m so sorry, which I’ve never felt genuine about saying. [01:10:06]

I don’t know. I sort of indicated that none of us saw it coming and offered to bring him cake and bring him chocolate right now. Acknowledgement of those things don’t, they probably don’t do much to ease a heart shredded to pieces. And when I read the e-mail to Jeremy he said Allison that’s so dramatic, those words are so dramatic. And I said I am so happy for the gay, intense, open men in my life, Nelson, at the moment. Nelson is totally going to get the words shredded to pieces. [01:11:14]

He did; he got them and he was so appreciative. And it’s only going to get worse. He’s, or at least in the next several days going to get worse. He’s a total wreck but he came in yesterday. And he came in basically just to talk and there were a few of us who are close enough with him but I didn’t think that I was very close with him. But then he comes to me and he’s sobbing and sobbing and sobbing, this is after we had talked a few times during the day, and I just took him. No words, no hesitation, no nervousness. Just you go on; you’re in my arms. [01:12:13]

I kind of really feel like I felt it with Danielle and I felt it with Nelson when I feel somebody exhale when they’re being held. I have. I have an exhale release button when somebody, when certain people touch it a certain way. Oh I didn’t know I was holding onto that. And he’s like tears, tears like snot, blubbering and he’s just so, so overcome. And I had so much space for it. It’s so surprising, too. And then half an hour later Joanne and I were taking an orange break [01:13:20]

THERAPIST: I’m going to run to the restroom. [01:13:23]

CLIENT: Okay.

[Pause]

THERAPIST: Stretch and wait? [01:15:32]

CLIENT: [Down and dodge] (ph) break. Part of what has made this week so good is that I’ve started to take five-minute body breaks every one to two hours. I feel like I have always had this, the awareness that that’s important and thought that I was doing it but really wasn’t. So I leave and go to a different part of the building where I could be somewhat alone and not create a spectacle. I have a timer and spend five minutes doing something push-ups, yoga, running in place, jumping jacks or just sitting. [01:16:27]

Do you like body breaks? They helped. I don’t know why it helps to formalize it or structure it, have it be structure. But I feel like without those I’m just always compulsively stretching or trying to adjust myself to the [inaudible at 01:16:59].

THERAPIST: Scootching.

CLIENT: Yes. But these breaks are helping the rest of the time be less distracted and inviting. During our orange break Felicia (ph), this I don’t know I think I told you about it, she’s [inaudible at 01:17:30] in her 60s, she’s an administrator in our department. She’s not ordained but she’s whatever, whatever a monk. She doesn’t use that word. Anyway [01:17:53]

THERAPIST: She’s more like a nun type or more like a minister type?

CLIENT: I don’t know what her life is around. [inaudible at 01:18:12] right now. She is a meditator and she is a lesbian and she is very motherly. And I like her very much and I went to her and I said to her once. She walked by and she looked, she just looked awful. How are you Felicia (ph)? She said good. I said your face shows that something really hard is happening. And she just sort of said, it’s hard to go around at work and try to be normal so it took a couple seconds for her to feel how inviting I think Joanne and I were feeling about her. [01:18:59]

She came and plopped down in a chair next to me. She said my friend died this morning. Or I guess first she said you guys are really the I’m so lucky I’ve run into you right now. My friend died this morning. And she couldn’t really say it she was so upset, so sad. And it was the same thing that had just happened with Nelson. She’s crying and so sad, so in pain and just looks at me. And I took her in again. [01:19:50]

I had no thinking, wondering; I was just there. A hug but it was really, really intense holding and again an exhale. [Pause] When she told us about it [at the end of lunch] (ph) and thanked us I e-mailed her last night saying you’re not; I’m sending my love. Yes Nelson can still take a shift. But I think I’m not contained. I don’t know how to contain it. It’s more like being there made such a big impression on me. [01:21:36]

I had the most stressful dream that I’ve had in a long time last night. I was in some house and there were a lot of people and we were partying and it was on a boat or something, or a ship. I think I was in the house and I was running to my room. And before I could shut the door these two female nuns or monks or, I don’t know, mystical women who were short and in matching blue sequined clothing came in and [inaudible at 01:22:51] to the bed and the desk. [01:22:55]

I was running to the desk chair and they came in and they took their place on the bed. And then our family’s oldest friend in Virginia, Elena (ph), she used to have a husband Elijah (ph) and they have two kids, Jayden (ph) and Colton (ph). Elijah (ph) died two and a half years ago basically from terrible, terribly managed diabetes. He was very, very, very depressed for many years and had chronic fatigue syndrome their whole family was falling apart even before he died. But Elena is now a widow; she’s very sad. In her own life she’s always been very sad, very fearful. She’s my mom’s, one of my mom’s good friend and my dad and my grandfather. [01:24:06]

So she comes in crying into the door and so it’s all of us in this tiny little room. And she closes the door and she tries to lock it. Suddenly I realized that all of these people are here to rape me. And so I lurch at the door, this very familiar door I don’t know what door it is. I think it’s in my house in Virginia. And all of these people are small so I realize I have and the door is oily, it’s really slippery and I’m struggling with her to not lock the door. And then I basically let out all the anger and rage and evil that’s probably in the entire room at Elena. You dirty, fucking bitch, I don’t know what I said but I said something like that. [01:25:19]

And she said, she has tears streaming down her face, she said I made a terrible mistake. It was two women who were there to molest me raped me, not her. It wasn’t clear why she was there and she was locking the door. She had these wide, scared eyes and was pleading with me as if I was going to kill her or something. Took a long time to recover from the dream because I felt so remorseful about how I treated her. That was so scary. [01:26:19]

[Pause]

I can’t think of much today to associate with the dream except that I got really obsessed with Annabelle and Gabriella (ph) since [inaudible at 01:27:20]. And I was thinking of Violet (ph) and [inaudible at 01:27:31] were abused sexually as a child and somehow I just felt mystified and I was thinking about that yesterday. Annabelle [and I] (ph) had been molested by her father and some coach. I won’t talk about her but those were two things that come to mind about the dream. [01:28:07]

[Pause]

THERAPIST: [We have] (ph) five minutes [01:29:19]

CLIENT: Can you unconsciously tell me that because it’s so disruptive? Isn’t it kind of disruptive? Even now I’d appreciate it. [01:30:03]

[Pause]

THERAPIST: I don’t really know what to say about the dream. The part about it taking place in your room on the ship away from the party kind of makes sense to me in that what happens there is about the sort of stuff that, like grief and anger, like little pieces of that are sort of compartmentalized off from you. [01:32:16]

And then my other association is to your saying that it’s disruptive when I say that it’s five minutes. I imagine it feels intrusive and disturbing.

CLIENT: It did that.

THERAPIST: Yes? And the -

CLIENT: Like also when you went to the bathroom and also when you took the trash out. It was oh, okay, there’s other stuff.

THERAPIST: That made me think of the abuse in the dream. And it also occurred to me that probably why it felt so disruptive is that it felt like that means we have to stop soon. In other words not saying it per se but what it points to. [01:33:28]

CLIENT: Yes, all the disruptive reaction. Just the trash and the bathroom and the five minutes. They all, yes, I guess all of them are about we have to stop now [inaudible at 01:33:57] even if it’s for a minute. [01:34:03]

THERAPIST: Yes. I guess there’s something that feel a little I think probably like the piece that you’re afraid of and [inaudible at 01:34:12] in a dream. So I mean I don’t know what more to think of it but those the initial thoughts.

CLIENT: [inaudible at 01:34:35].

THERAPIST: We should stop. [Pause] Oh and I should have asked this before but so Monday it looks like you will be here right, in the morning?

CLIENT: Yes, yes. [01:35:36]

THERAPIST: Okay. I think in your e-mail it says weather permitting or something.

CLIENT: Yes, that’s really how I interpret this weather after I [inaudible at 01:35:51]. Yes.

THERAPIST: All right. I’ll talk to you Monday. [01:36:26]

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