TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Well welcome back.

CLIENT: Thank you. Thank you. (Pause twenty seconds). So I feel pretty weary this morning. (Pause four seconds, client exhales) It was a fine trip. I think. (Pause six seconds) I think it was productive for me. But they're offering a three month contract, (pause five seconds) so I'm trying to nail them down to some kind of commitment, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:00:58]

CLIENT: I think it's just a budget thing, but I'm obviously concerned that, concerned about the prospect of finding out that on the other end there's not budget to renew. Because working on three month contracts is, it's not a great situation.

THERAPIST: Well it plays right into so much we've talked about.

CLIENT: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And the complexity is that on, you know, ultimately I think Kevin has to defer to his chief of staff, I can't lobby him directly for all kinds of reasons, you know, among them just are ethics reasons. So (pause six seconds)

THERAPIST: Kevin's your (inaudible 00:02:00, voices overlapping) who's in charge? [00:02:01]

CLIENT: Kevin's the guy who's in charge. So (pause five seconds), you know, I asked Jack to talk to him and it didn't seem like that moved anything which, you know, on one level kind of hurts my feelings, but on a more practical level it's just a shitty situation to be in. I really (client sighs), I don't want to have to stay in this position at (inaudible at 00:02:35), it's not good for me. As well as not being really productive, but right now I'm kind of facing the prospect of asking them, asking Phil basically, if I can stay in this somewhat, you know, in this nebulous role for another three months. [00:03:05] (Pause five seconds) I mean it runs out in June in any case. I sense it's kind of a dead letter. Or not a dead letter but, you know, it's not that consequential. Anyway, I feel homeless. I feel, I feel really valueless. I feel kind of hurt and I feel exhausted, just like exhausted and I don't know how much harder I can try to find some kind of place. Homeless. (Pause seven seconds) So I'm not sure quite what the next step is, or rather I do know what the next step is, it's to apply for more jobs. I feel exhausted by that prospect. [00:04:13] (Pause ten seconds) And the other piece I guess is that, in some ways, the only thing that made this tolerable, or I felt that the only thing that made this tolerable is having Jack on the other end kind of advocating for me.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: (Pause eleven seconds) Anxiety was so crushing otherwise.

THERAPIST: (Pause seven seconds) You mean if you had been dealing with somebody who you didn't know and have the relationship as you do with Jack

CLIENT: Yeah

THERAPIST: That you would have been unbearably anxious? [00:05:10]

CLIENT: And I think the other piece of it, I guess, is that, you know, I thought that beyond Jack I did have, I had people who would, you know, kind of advocate for my best interests, or at least keep them in mind and it appears that I don't. (Pause fourteen seconds) I just, I don't feel like I want too much, you know? Am I really (pause four seconds), I don't know, I feel very timid. There's a (whispers) oh God (pause ten seconds, client blows nose). Anyway, I just feel really tired. [00:06:11]

THERAPIST: (Pause twenty-nine seconds, clears throat) Umm (pause fourteen seconds), you don't quite frame it this way but, which I think it is interesting and quite important, but I think you're sort of reeling from a blow. [00:07:10] You focus on kind of where it's left you?

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: In talking about the future, having to do things that seem overwhelming like looking for another job or staying on at this job, you know feeling exhausted. (Pause seven seconds) In a way, a little bit from this very specific event which is, you know, what they offered you was not what you wanted and I think not what you thought they were going to offer?

CLIENT: It's not. I mean, obviously I was proposing to leave a job and start another.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know that was not what we negotiated and I feel like, you know, yet again, you know this just feels like this succession of blatant (ph?) switches. [00:08:10] Ultimately, I mean ultimately I guess I have to take some responsibility for it in the sense that, you know, if you rely on your network for your employment this probably is, you know, more prone to happening. (Pause six seconds) You know if you apply through traditional channels

THERAPIST: Oh I see, like (inaudible at 00:08:45, voices overlapping)

CLIENT: which I found very, you know it's like I did this once, I went through one cycle of job applications but it was, I was so demoralized I guess in some sense by the kind of machinations that seem to be, you know, the outcome of those applications that I tried a different strategy and that different strategy has [00:09:15] Whatever the role, you know whatever the distribution of culpability is, that strategy has come to this pass. You know, the end point of that strategy is where I am right now.

THERAPIST: (Pause one minute eighteen seconds) I guess what I'm trying, again, I umm. [00:10:52] (Pause thirty-three seconds) I guess I could put it like this (pause five seconds), you know when 11:40? cursed me for what happened and it's like you got punched in the face. And (pause five seconds) it kind of is like (clears throat) uh, you know this happened I put myself in situations where I could get punched in the face and it fucking hurts and now I have to figure out what to do about it and how to clean myself up and what to do next. And, talking about the situation in which that (inaudible at 00:12:11) you in a way, but I get the, the piece I feel is kind of importantly left out is the piece about this guy punched you in the face, you know. [00:12:30] (Pause three seconds) I guess you seem to be moving away from the need, feelings in a way that are sort of tied up in the situation that happened. Like, they totally let you down and at least based on how you were talking before you meant, I imagine it surprised you really? It caught you off guard, and you're really angry at them. I imagine you feel much less securely connected to them.

CLIENT: Yes. Certainly the latter. I don't know, I don't know, I can't detect anger. I feel disappointment, I feel hurt.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. [00:13:26]

CLIENT: (Pause five seconds) I mean I guess it was never explicitly stated that I was negotiating with Jack, you know, who I knew but didn't have ultimate decision making power.

THERAPIST: Whatever was or wasn't explicitly stated, you had the impression.

CLIENT: I was in good faith, I ran it by the boss, I interacted with the sub-boss, and then there was this person that I had never met who apparently is responsible for making the decision who just kind of nixed it. So (client sniffles), angry? I was certainly led to believe that there was going to be more security than three months. And I do good work! I do good work! I mean, you know, (pause seven seconds, client sighs) there's a history here and I'm aware of that and I have no idea what role that plays in this process, maybe none.

THERAPIST: What are you referring to? [00:14:43]

CLIENT: Well, you know, I've been, sort of allowed myself to be recruited to jobs with the person who's now the boss and on several occasions I've just said I can't do this anymore I'm feeling.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: From my point of view it was like I'm feeling too anxious, I feel a sense of anguish that's, you know, that's kind of intolerable.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:15:08]

CLIENT: You know from his point of view it was like well I don't want to do this. And so it's obvious that at some level as a factor, whether directly or indirectly in the sense that he's kind of less willing to go to bat for me when faced with this certain

THERAPIST: Yeah I wondered about that, whether part of what they're doing is okay we'll see how it goes.

CLIENT: Well, you know, that was, so Jack called me yesterday afternoon, late afternoon, and he basically said they don't, because I had said when I went back ‘listen if I'm going to leave my job I want to at least have a six month commitment'.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And so he took it to them I guess on Wednesday, and it sounds like the chief of staff said ‘no, we can't make more than a three month commitment'. And he took it to Kevin and talked with him briefly and kind of told him where I was coming from. It sounded, from the way he described the conversation, like it was non-committal, he didn't get a firm statement that. So basically my analysis is that the chief of staff is worried about budgeting, and I'm sure there's lots of expenses for travel and security and all kinds of other things too that all of his. She wasn't involved intimately in the decision making process. in the sense that, you know I kind of did an interview with her all along, so Jack kind of botched that. [00:16:44]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Frankly, you know, I don't know what role just sort of peak (ph?) and being out of the loop in this decision may have been, but that may well have been part of it. (Pause seven seconds, client exhales) But ultimately what makes it very hard, in this case I think, is that this contact, this old friend and colleague isn't going to bat for me. This person who, you know, probably would have to carry the day ultimately if he said ‘I really want this', it would happen. And that has to do with this history of abdication. That's my analysis.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: You know, so it's one part actual budget constraints, one part kind of mismanagement of the initiative, and one part history. I don't know what the proportions are, but those are the factors I see at work. And, you know, I feel some anguish that this history which, from my conscious point of view at least, whatever the kind of analytical model we've come up with may be of my volition and my agency and all of this, it's not like I was consciously saying ‘I don't want to do this, I'm blowing you off'.

THERAPIST: Of course, yeah. [00:18:24]

CLIENT: I was really, I've really been in very deep distress and I feel, I guess to the extent that I feel angry, the extent that I can call up anger, you know I can call up frustration about the budget situation, I can call up a little bit of, I don't know how to describe how I feel about Jack not really handling the management of or not really managing the relationship with the chief of staff very well. I'm not angry about it, Jack is a wonderful person but he's not a great operator so that's just kind of the hand we're dealt. I feel sad, and maybe at some level a bit angry, at the (pause six seconds), you know the kind of blame or accusation that feels implicit in my hypothetical model of where Kevin is coming from.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: On the other hand, you know, as a manager you need to go on the basis of track record even with people you know well and you don't want to go to bat for somebody who seems unreliable so I kind of understand that. [00:19:45]

THERAPIST: I imagine you're worried that, tell me, that ironically the way that contributes to their not wanting to offer you something more long-term will make it difficult for you to work.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: In just that same way.

CLIENT: I am. I'm quite worried about that.

THERAPIST: I guess this maybe seems to be one of the main points here?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Knowing you're on a three month contract.

CLIENT: Yes. I'm quite concerned about this too. Well I've taken it, I signed it on Friday.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: It exists.

THERAPIST: Like it was pretty sure you were going to take it?

CLIENT: Well yeah, it was a hundred percent probability.

THERAPIST: Will make it really hard for you to work there being shot down?

CLIENT: Very, very concerned about that. [00:20:48]

THERAPIST: And anxious, and unable to produce, which will then (client sighs), sort of

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: rule out

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: getting another contract?

CLIENT: Yeah. So I guess, you know, I guess at the end of the day that's kind of what's going on. There are moments, even in the last five seconds, where I think to myself, ‘well, you know, I can do this'. That's fair enough. I think to myself, ‘that's fair enough. It's not great, but fair enough'. And I suggested to Jack is, I said that we write into my terms of reference performance indicators that would eventuate in my renewal. I don't know if he'll go for it, but I proposed to write some language to that effect. And he thought it was a reasonable idea, and so I'm going to do so and send it to them this morning. So I'm acting, it's not like I'm totally paralyzed, and yet there's this sense of anguish that alternates with this more proactive, you know sort of settled [00:22:09]

THERAPIST: Right, and maybe this

CLIENT: coping behavior.

THERAPIST: Although I don't quite have my finger on it, is why I think, you know, in a way there's kind of two separate issues here.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: One is how you feel you were treated and what the relationship with this institution feels like now, that's one.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: And two is the reality of the brevity of the contract and figuring out how to deal with the uncertainties that go along with that, and so forth. And I guess I think it's the first one that (pause five seconds) will, I mean both will contribute, but the first one I think would contribute a lot to making it hard for you to work. [00:23:17]

CLIENT: And what was the second one again? I lost the thread of our conversation.

THERAPIST: Sure, sure. The second one was the reality of being on a three month contract and the uncertainty that brings with it and

CLIENT: Just kind of the pragmatic

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: The pragmatic part and the.

THERAPIST: I mean I guess what I imagine is that

CLIENT: The narrative part, I guess.

THERAPIST: feeling very hard done by, feeling very poorly (inaudible at 00:23:51, voices overlapping)

CLIENT: I don't, I mean I can see why you're talking about this hard done by thing, but I don't think that's the way that I presented it.

THERAPIST: To me? Yeah.

CLIENT: In our discussion today. I mean I think

THERAPIST: I think that's right.

CLIENT: I think that whatever, you know,

THERAPIST: I think I'm kind of nosing around to see if?

CLIENT: You are nosing around to see and maybe it's there to some degree.

THERAPIST: Maybe it is.

CLIENT: But I think I've had a fairly, I'll say involved response to this. You know I'm hurt,

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:24:20]

CLIENT: and hurt, you know both kind of interpersonally hurt and, as you say, I kind of took a blow. So I'm managing that, but I don't think that my response has been to kind of go off into this fairly distorted and clearly not very productive place of just giving myself over to this sense of bereavement.

THERAPIST: Well that's great.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I mean that's what happened over the summer with Phil (sp?) announcing he was leaving, more or less right?

CLIENT: It is I guess, isn't it?

THERAPIST: I mean that's great if that's not

CLIENT: I don't feel like, I don't sense any of it. I feel, I mean I don't feel it's unreasonable, you know assuming that, I think it's a reasonable assumption that at some level what's going on is just sort of the reckoning of this long-term pattern. You can't be outraged by it, I don't feel outraged.

THERAPIST: Well good, okay. [00:25:38]

CLIENT: I guess that's good. It did have a protective aspect.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But yes, it's good. (Pause nine seconds) I mean I, what I do have (client sighs), what I do have is a very strong impulse, very strong impulse, to make contact with Kevin directly and basically negotiate some kind of an agreement with him directly to say, ‘listen, I'm not sure exactly what's going on, but I just want to get some kind of assurance from you that A, you basically would like me to come on board, and B, reassurance I guess is more, maybe more apt, and B, that if certain conditions are met I would be able to continue, I would have a place here'. I have a very strong impulse to do that. I think that would not be the right thing to do, I think there's a considerable delicacy when you're the head of a large bureaucratic organization about hiring people that you know from before, you know, for these kinds of positions. And that would put everybody in a very tough spot. [00:27:12] I may be wrong about that, but my intuition is that I don't want an e-mail trail establishing that Kevin is making the decision about hiring and firing. There needs to be some insulation there.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, I agree.

CLIENT: So I have this very strong impulse on the one hand, I have a fantasy at least that not doing, trying to do it through Jack may be taken amiss by somebody that, after all, I know pretty well. But I'm leery of transgressing some kind of local rule and making things worse. But the impulse, I guess for our purposes the impulse is kind of interesting because it's kind of classic for me. I mean it's like some kind of, it's like I have this anxiety, I have this deep anxiety about my place and my relationship and where it is and how it is. And I just want some kind of reassurance, I just kind of reach out or I have a strong impulse to reach out for some kind of reassurance.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:28:28]

CLIENT: Often that attempt, that approach isn't appropriate, often. All the more reason to be leery of the impulse.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Right now I don't feel like anybody competent or protective has my back. (Pause thirty-six seconds, client sighs). [00:29:29] But I've already done good work for them, just something came up and I did it well and the communications director was very happy and so on and so forth.

THERAPIST: You mean just recently?

CLIENT: Yeah, just since I got back. So, I don't know. I have the capacity, I have the capacity to perform. Confident. But you're right, I am very concerned that feeling displaced will make it difficult for me to create a place for myself that's out of the old (inaudible at 00:30:14).

THERAPIST: So when you say feeling displaced, which part of this are you referring to?

CLIENT: Not having a place, you know? Not having

THERAPIST: It's more like (inaudible at 00:30:26) is not that you feel so badly done by by them, but more of just (inaudible at 00:30:33, voices overlapping).

CLIENT: You know Ethan, the badly done by thing

THERAPIST: I'm not trying to argue for that I'm just saying (inaudible at 30:42, voices overlapping)

CLIENT: I'm just saying that, you know, it's a subset of the larger genre of just feeling like I don't have a home, like I've done everything that I should do or need to do to have a home. And so badly done by in the sense of the outcome's measure not being fulfilled. That's something that's absolutely.

THERAPIST: What I'm thinking is that that's the way that that's really a kind of a smaller piece of a bigger puzzle which is more about

CLIENT: No question. [00:31:12]

THERAPIST: finding a home and feeling

CLIENT: No question.

THERAPIST: settles somewhere

CLIENT: That's right.

THERAPIST: and wanted and all that. And it's been about that you're concerned will make it difficult to work.

CLIENT: (Pause twelve seconds) I mean already I'm looking at what comes to mind, already I'm looking at your face to see if we're approaching the end of today's session. And it's kind of a reflex response to what we were talking about just now. It's as if there's some kind of transitive property of feeling displaced, like I don't really have a home, like (inaudible at 00:32:12) the line, like it will disappear in five minutes and forty-seven seconds. You know this is, in some ways this is what passes for comfort. There's an ease to, you know, knowing I'm sitting in this chair for X (ph?) minutes. [00:32:42] At least within the parameters of that interaction nobody's going to chase me out, and yet I know that it's time limited. I don't know, I'm rambling a little bit. There's an analogy there that's interesting.

THERAPIST: (Pause six seconds) I think I know what you're, what did you have in mind? The analogy of the kind of time limitedness, like the support is time limited?

CLIENT: No, I guess it's just a tension between something known and at some level comforting and, you know, the knowledge that at some point soon I'm going to be expelled, or the expectation that at some point soon I'll be expelled. I mean if I sat here and refused to leave at eight thirty, it would be inconvenient at least, but that's kind of what I feel like doing. [00:33:58]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I kind of feel like refusing to leave.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: In Washington, and wherever, I just at this point I just feel like staging a strike, you know?

THERAPIST: (Pause seven seconds) Okay, yeah.

CLIENT: A sit down strike. (Pause six seconds) I don't know why, I don't know why these people can't understand what's really going on, you know it's just wanting a place that is, I mean not just wanting a place but wanting a place that is, I don't know that is, so here's the kind of entitlement speaking, that's worthy of me. [00:34:57] You know not just a place where I make arrangements, but a place that does justice to my creative and other competencies.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So maybe the hard done by part is creeping back in a little bit. (Pause eight seconds) Maybe that's where it is, less in relation to any specific interaction but just kind of more general complaints about the cause might continue.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. Not having an appropriate place maybe, where one should be? [00:35:55]

CLIENT: Okay. Well as you say, that (pause four seconds).

THERAPIST: It's not sounding crazy to me as I'm saying it.

CLIENT: Made for me? Maybe things aren't made for people. Maybe they're made for some people and not for other people. I guess that's an unfairness. (Pause thirty-one seconds) I mean that was a little bit pointed on your part I imagine.

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: No? It felt very pointed. It's funny.

THERAPIST: No I was really just trying to kind of summarize and make sure I was on the same page as what you meant. [00:37:06]

CLIENT: Okay. Well, I mean, the tension is between made for me and making for myself I guess. Yes I feel as if I'm kind of oscillating between a model in which I'm responsible to make everything for myself and a model in which it seems right that certain things be made for me.

THERAPIST: Another, sort of, aspect I was thinking about and probably part of why it didn't seem so striking to me is a place maybe for you within the parameters of wherever you're dealing with. You know like (inaudible at 37:53).

CLIENT: Yeah (inaudible at 00:37:54).

THERAPIST: (Pause ten seconds) I guess there was a place made for you there, there's a chance that we have? Or at the Lomack (ph?) within the constraints there? [00:38:21]

CLIENT: (Pause thirteen seconds) I didn't follow, it sounded good but I didn't follow.

THERAPIST: I don't know, like I understand why you're entitled to want them, if they're going to bring you on, to find you a situation that works for you and that will also benefit them. That doesn't sound entitled to me.

CLIENT: (Pause eighteen seconds) Well, apparently I'm not entitled to it. [00:39:17] (Pause eight seconds) It also feels a little, I mean I guess the other place where I have something approaching anger or frustration or something is the sense in which I just feel like these footballs are being displayed to me and I go to kick them and they're just taken away.

THERAPIST: (Pause nineteen seconds) I guess this is also where I wonder whether you, sort of, (inaudible at 00:40:14) what you have in that when you (inaudible at 00:40:22, file skips), and three months is short, I'm not trying to belittle that but

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:40:23]

THERAPIST: but they (inaudible at 00:40:25, file skips) for three months and then, I assume that it wouldn't make sense for them to do that unless they thought there was a decent chance, I mean you know I wouldn't bring someone on for three months thinking you're pretty sure you're not going to be able to use them after that. It's like, oh well, you know that getting you involved, having you meet people?

CLIENT: I guess my construction, there's a kind of distorted construction here which is that they brought me on for three months as kind of a sock (ph?) to me, as like a favor to me, but only three months.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: The favor was only a few month favor, it was not a favor beyond then.

THERAPIST: I see. Huh?

CLIENT: That's the construction is that it wasn't real just a favor. Just like a personal favor.

THERAPIST: Right, "yeah we like Galen (sp?) so we'll do this".

CLIENT: We'll do this but we're not really going to prejudiced (ph?) our budget situation.

THERAPIST: You know, you know how things work in war life (ph?) much better than I do, but I would assume, I guess I would assume that (inaudible at 00:41:32, file skips) wouldn't do that. If it wasn't in their interests they'd just say no and find some reason for it and not lose money. [00:41:40]

CLIENT: I'm sure that's true. I'm sure that's true. I wasn't conscious of this construction until we pressed it a little bit.

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: But yeah. (Pause eight seconds) But yeah, no I mean that's right. And like I say, it's like I have these two almost weirdly simultaneous responses, one of them is very pragmatic like okay it's three months you've just got to put the pedal to the metal and perform.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: The other is I won't be able to perform under these circumstances and so, among other things, I need to kind of preserve this old job

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: to fall back on, but it's not really a fallback. You know in part I'm kind of rehearsing this sort of or persephorating (ph?) on it maybe because I have to talk to Phil (sp?) today, basically.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:42:46]

CLIENT: And kind of tell him which way I'm going. And at some level, I guess, I feel like trying to work out a deal between us where

THERAPIST: You're not out altogether.

CLIENT: I'm not out altogether. Which would mean, among other things, just sort of serving some program assistant functions since my salary prevents, since it's my salary it can't be somebody else's salary, if you know what I'm saying. You know there's no room for a program assistant salary if my salary is still being paid.

THERAPIST: I see, yeah.

CLIENT: Anyway (client sighs), where's the clock?

THERAPIST: A couple minutes.

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I talk about it explicitly more than I used to, I think.

THERAPIST: The clock? [00:43:45]

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. My usual MO has been to test you in various ways. It's an imbalance that you can see that I can't I guess.

THERAPIST: Mmm. Yeah I used to have two clocks, but they haven't given me another one. It's not for a clinical reason that I don't, it's more of a (inaudible at 00:44:05) reason, they didn't think to buy a clock.

CLIENT: Okay. I guess I find the tension kind of interesting.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: It's hard to find a clock that doesn't tick that has a continuous movement.

THERAPIST: It doesn't make a ticking noise.

CLIENT: It wouldn't make, if it had a continuous movement it would make a ticking noise. Although sometimes if it's like a plug-in electric it will have a buzz, which is probably just as bad or worse. So, yeah, I don't know where that leaves me but I am kind of trying to figure out how to handle it with Phil. And my impulse right now is just to say fuck it! This is it, I'm done and I'll deal with this three month thing, you know the salary is high enough that it will presumable give me enough leeway to [00:44:59]

THERAPIST: You know for what it's worth, I mean, (inaudible at 00:45:05) you're like ‘I haven't decided', I'm like ‘Really, you have to let Phil (sp?) know today?'

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Because he's always so good about letting you know (therapist chuckles).

CLIENT: No, it happens that we have a couple of meetings today anyway.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: No he called me on Monday just to kind of see what was up and where we were.

THERAPIST: I can see him wanting to.

CLIENT: I put him off and I said, you know we have to work things out and I'll let you know later in the week, so I do feel like I need to at least settle things. And I've been telling him January first all along so, in some sense.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Now we have to decide where our January first is at. Anyway, I have to

THERAPIST: I also know that I owe you a bill.

CLIENT: Yes, you do.

THERAPIST: I'm sorry I haven't got that today, I will try to get it on

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Alright.

END TRANSCRIPT