TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: So, we last saw each other before the new year I guess.
THERAPIST: I think so, yeah. (inaudible at 00:09)
CLIENT: That was two or three weeks ago. OK, cool. So, hello. Nice to see you.
THERAPIST: Likewise.
CLIENT: So I was in New York in late December before we saw each other and then I flew back last week, then we spent much of the rest of the I mean, I guess we left on the fourth and spent the rest of the (inaudible at 00:48)
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:48)
CLIENT: No, it's my people. It's my sister and her son and husband. And then I went to to see Jennie's (sp?) parents. So, we brought the cat who was a little sad about all of the traveling.
So the trip out to New York last week was good. I feel a lot happier. I kind of made up with Kevin or he made up with me, which is sort of how I [would say] (ph).
THERAPIST: Yeah, I remember you had said something in a kind of joking way and he was sort of snickering (ph).
CLIENT: I don't know, whatever. He was being kind of funny. I think it must be quite an adjustment figuring out how to inhabit that role. So I cut him some slack. But it turns out that his son is in school with the children of my father's cousin (inaudible at 02:11)
THERAPIST: Ah, that's funny.
CLIENT: So, I don't know. We had exchanges about that. It was nice. It was friendly and that was nice. It's been a long time since we were kind of (inaudible at 02:24). But the trip itself was good substantively (ph) and definitely made some progress on this discreet project and I think it's pretty clear that the initiative will be going through June. So from my selfish point of view that's a good relief. And, you know, good interactions with...
(crosstalk)
CLIENT: So, yes. I mean, basically there is a movement afoot in public policy to pay more attention to the delivery of projects. So, you know, once you have the policies in place what impedes their actual execution, what are the various kinds of bottlenecks that can arise and how can you systematically try and, you know, develop institutions and procedures and, you know, practices, interaction...
THERAPIST: Are these carried out by your institution or are they sort of (inaudible at 03:31) out or...
CLIENT: You mean the delivery modules, so to speak? Well, I think that's the question. You know, what Kevin has been pushing for the Bank is that it become a kind of, you know, facilitator in partnership with governments who've been promising these things, helping them to deliver...
(crosstalk)
CLIENT: ...delivery, in the event that the collaboration is being funded by some other external (inaudible at 04:00). So, you know what I mean, whatever. In principle it's fairly straightforward. In practice, you know, a turning ship with I was talking to one of the main IT guys yesterday in town and he said there are 22,000 e-mail accounts...
THERAPIST: Oh my god.
CLIENT: If that's a metric for the size of the organization. So turning that and kind of, you know, giving it a discreet and specific and new institutional focus is best (ph). So, basically what they want me to do in collaboration with my old friend Jack, who's been kind of given this wicket is to just come up with some very specific projects, which in this context are called product. [I know] (ph) it was a bad idea. (laughter) But, you know, projects, you know, a concept paper, a white paper. You know, the things that have sort of institutional meaning as well as hopefully some substance between now and June, you know, that will, A, allow the institution to coalesce around them and, B A, allow the institution to coalesce around them. B, create enough buzz that's there's a sense that, you know, Kevin has been talking about this in very I think, you know, kind of rhetorical and high concept terms for the last six to eight months. Give people a sense that it has some substance and then see (inaudible at 05:39) (laughter), which, you know, right now, it's kind of the concept. So...
THERAPIST: It's sort of like best practices for implementation.
CLIENT: Ultimately. I mean, I'm trying to describe it in fancier terms and he has been, you know, as a science. But, you know, as I've been arguing, science just needs knowledge and not (inaudible at 05:58) (laughter). You can fill that flap box in a variety of different ways and different science have. You know, it's the reality. Biology is not really analogous to psychics is not really analogous to psychology.
Anyway, so that's the project and I did a bunch of interviews and have been scheduling for their interviews pretty continuously. Sat in the archives for quite a few hours looking. I mean, I think the main objective of that, that part of the exercise is to identify things that come up in the interviews and see if we can find out what they mean (ph), you know, to the institution, for better or worse. And, you know, (inaudible at 06:44) and met with some people who will be working on this other departments, just to kind of talk about work.
So we're moving forward and it feels good and I feel productive, which for me, given the last few years, is actually quite big. I mean, I feel, you know, that I have a kind of skill set and there's an institutional frame where I can at least, you know, in the short to medium term where I can, you know, kind of use it productively and just help people.
So that's good. So that feels nice. And, you know, I've even sort of begin to carve out some space for this ongoing thing with Phil (sp?), who's I don't know. He's really been flaky but, you know, that's the reality and so I'm trying to figure out to what extent [to kind of make that work] (ph). I mean, you know, from a practical standpoint and just, I don't know, ontological (ph) is that the right word? I would like not to have another one of these very brief, you know, kind of engagements and then leave it. I'd like to have some continuity. I think that's a matter of principles. So, you know, to the extent that I can preserve it productively without just banging my head against the wall [is good] (ph) and, you know, so I don't rely on it at this point for most (inaudible at 08:23). The ability to do that with a lot less frustration.
So good things, good things.
THERAPIST: Absolutely. I'm glad to hear it.
CLIENT: And the visit at Jennie's (sp?) parents was good and other than the fact that my brother-in-law thinks it's stupid that they can't go down in the basement (laughter) (inaudible at 08:42) nice visit with my sister and Jennie (sp?) really enjoyed spending time with them. So (inaudible at 08:51).
THERAPIST: That's great.
CLIENT: So, I mean, you know, in some sense I don't know. What should we talk about? (laughter). I mean, maybe one possible point of departure would just be, you know, how to keep things going when I'm feeling happy. You know, [it's such a] (ph) challenge. (inaudible at 09:20). This is a good of place to start as any. Functioning within that system, the system with the president's office, is definitely a challenge. I know that on previous occasions when, you know, I've sort of interacted with high powered systems before it has been difficult for me, I should say. It's like, you know, it's so divergent from (pause) I was going to say it's so divergent from my core values and things but the truth is that I don't know about the values. But, you know, what I'm imagining what I'll do in the world is kind of in flux and my expectations of it are in flux. I guess that's a bit challenging as I think about it, you know. I mean, you know, there are people just routinely earning, you know, what I'm earning, which is crazy. [00:10:26]
THERAPIST: What are you earning?
CLIENT: You want to know? 850 a day. It seems...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 10:32)
CLIENT: You know, it's not like 40 or it's not like 7 days a week, you know. I don't bill for every day in the week but it's just a kind of obscene amount and there are, I think, 8000 consultants working at this institution. So that's one thing. It's just the kind of prosigacy (ph) of an international financial institution that theoretically is getting most of these contributions on the premise that it's (inaudible at 11:09) charitable but, you know, something more towards the charitable end of the spectrum than the profit-making end of the spectrum.
Then there's the president's office. You know, I mean, I wear a suit. (laughter)
THERAPIST: You say that as though I'm going to find it hard to believe. One of us is maybe finding it hard to believe.
CLIENT: No. But I guess, I mean, you know, my suit fits (laughter) and I go there with ties that are ties, you know? Like powerful ties. (laughter) And, you know, there's some need to inhabit the role of somebody who's making 150 dollars a day, so there's that. Another part I guess, you know, some of it is the institution, some of it is the implications in the institution for me. Then there's the president's office. Everybody in the Bank does not wear a suit, although if you're a managerial type you're likely to, assuming you're male. Everybody in the president's office wears a suit. I got something on my suit pants on Wednesday evening, the day I arrive, and wore khakis the next day. I was nicely pressed and had (ph), you know, a tie and a shirt and a, you know, fancy dress coat and all of that, but I was the only one in khakis. (laughter)
So, you know, for me, like, dressing up in the way that I was at that time, you know, would ordinarily whatever. You know, basically...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 12:55)
CLIENT: Oh, whatever. You know, managerial people will often, you know, dress up in suits, especially the doctors. You know, the reality is that basically their HR strategy is to get really unprofessionals (inaudible at 13:14) I just discovered what it was a couple months (laughter), you know, young people who are willing to work for like 40,000 dollars. And then a kind of upper crust managers, some of whom have come from the corporate world and taken what they think is a pay cut. And some of whom are physicians. Really, they're the only people who are making enough to buy a nice suit. (laughter) So, you know, there's really no expectation of really dressing up in that way, except for a few people.
At any rate, I don't know. I mean, I'm just seizing this basically as a, you know, metaphor or measure. You know, people are powerful. I mean, when you come from the president's office and you sit in a meeting people respond to you. When somebody introduces you saying, "This is a consultant working with the president's office," they do everything they can to help you. And, you know, kind of keeping in one's head what one has come for, you know, what the larger project is, you know, where you are, who you are and so on in relation to that is difficult, especially when I'm kind of dislocated, you know, living out of a hotel. I discovered the same hotel where DSK would take its prostitutes (ph). (laughter) [00:14:55]
So, there's a (pause) it's not really surreal. It's very real. I mean, very practical. Making (ph) the expectations are clear and the expectation of, you know, a lot of directed and focused work is clear. I don't feel it's clear that they're expecting me to, you know, produce at a high level and that's fine. It's clear to me that potentially at least this could, you know, be really important, even consistent with my value system or what I think of is my somewhat evolving value system.
THERAPIST: In the sense that you believe in the work they're doing? (inaudible at 15:41)
CLIENT: More in a sense that, you know, like, they're in the right quadrant and therefore potentially all of these resources that are being to some degree misused on people like me could, you know, could be the leverage for real Alexanderul things. Actually, being misused on people who are not like me in the sense that they're just sort of trying to park themselves for five, six, seven years and, you know, sort of (inaudible at 16:12) without really I think being, you know, awfully self-critical about what they're doing.
Like I was talking, Alexander (sp?) is a guy that...
THERAPIST: He's the IT guy?
CLIENT: He's the IT guy. And he was just telling me some really horrifying things about, you know, just the IT people, you know, not making necessary updates for five years and coming into a meeting and saying that they couldn't do things when, you know, they really could, because they didn't want to be blamed if it went wrong. So they continued to hire consultants so that the consultants could take the fall, you know. It just sort of...
THERAPIST: Like sleazy stuff.
CLIENT: Sleazy stuff, exactly. Exactly, sleazy stuff that was I mean, that particular anecdote was actually helpful because I'm interacting with people who, quite frankly, are not confident, you know, who are harming (ph) stuff out for me and, you know, whatever. [00:17:20]
I don't know. I guess what I'm struggling with right now is where my value system is at least that's the way that I've been I don't know if I've thought about it directively (sp?) quite yet. (pause) [Summed up value] (ph) system, probably dressing it up.
You know, I said a moment ago "wasted on people like me."
THERAPIST: Yes, I heard that.
CLIENT: I noticed. I noticed that your eyebrows were raised appropriately. This is recurring, I think, a sense that, you know, such a I shouldn't be (pause) I think what I'm struggling with right now is that there are two sort of possible analytical frames. You know, one of them is this just feel inappropriate to me. Like, you know, people should not be making, you know, 150 dollars an hours. And more of them is, you know, I'm not worth it, which is I think what I imagine, you know, that something along those lines is what raised your eyebrows. [00:18:52]
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: And, you know, they're very intertwined, those two just sort of, I don't know, cognitive at ways of understanding the issue. So it's kind of hard to separate them. You know, one might be an excuse for the other, one might be I don't really know how to...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 19:15) but one of them has to do with your feeling you're not worth it and the...
CLIENT: Yeah, and the other has to do with feeling that, you know, this is not a kind of universe that I should be inhabiting. You know, I'm supposed to be working in an area where, you know, you're not sort of sucking at that (inaudible at 19:34), you know. What kind of a (inaudible at 19:35) gives you a 150 dollars an hour, 850 dollars a day or whatever? What kind of a (inaudible at 19:40) does that? Why are consultants charging by the day, for that matter? I mean, that in and of itself is a kind of a, you know, padding in the sense that, you know, often, especially if you're not working on the site, you know, you're not going to spend the whole day on something. You know, you're not going 9:00 to 5:00 and coming to work and coming in at 9:00 and leaving at 5:00. You're operating differently and so, you know, typically if I charge for a day, you know, I might have spent six hours on this work or four hours on this work but there's no other way to, you know, to bill but for the entire day.
There's something a little purious (ph) about that. And yet, as I say, the other kind of, I don't know, framework for thinking about this is really, you know, one that is more self-critical and I think troublesome. You know, it's just sort of a question of self-worth, you know. So I don't know what to make of that. The evaluation feels important, you know, at both levels of abstraction, frankly. It is at once true that I'm struggling to figure out what I feel comfortable doing in the world, in what institution and at what level (inaudible at 21:20) and all of this and that I'm struggling with, you know, kind of feeling valuable and worthwhile.
THERAPIST: It raises an aspect of kind of just disorientation (inaudible at 21:33)
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...and an aspect of self-worth.
CLIENT: That's right, that's right. So I mean, I guess at some level maybe it's not helpful to separate the two of them since they're so related to each other. It's a quantum phenomenon of some kind or another. But, yeah, I feel myself struggling with both of them simultaneously. I think I can formulate it in a way that actually, you know, this intersection makes sense in the sense that you know I didn't like the incentive structure that I grew up with as random and variegated as it was. [That's a] bunch of what we talked about over the months. You know, that trying to figure out how to modify it or retrofit it in a way that is relevant to wherever I am at any given moment. It's really a challenge. I mean, in some ways that's the whole challenge. It's like I grew you in a very strange place or places. I am challenged to assess and conform to, you know, different value systems. I find that troublesome or challenging or, you know, scary I guess in some sense. And, you know, here's yet one more instance in which I have to do so. (pause) Does that make sense to you? You seem like you're (inaudible at 23:09)
THERAPIST: Yes. I guess the (pause) here's the feedback on the question about you frame it almost as though it's sort of this frequent culture shock or value shock that you kind of experience relative to what you grew up with.
CLIENT: OK, yeah, that's true (ph).
THERAPIST: You know, having grown up with one set of values and sort of expectations and then finding yourself in environments where those are different and having to reorient.
CLIENT: OK, yes, (inaudible at 24:02)
THERAPIST: I guess that well, this thing about that that I question is whether, like actually, I think it would be easier than it is if that model applied. In other words, I think if you did come from a place that was solid and consistent and sort of well-inculcated in you, then I think it would probably be easier to roll with these changes and differences. But I think it may be more complicated, is the right way to put it, but...
CLIENT: No, I see what you're saying. And I said variegated and that's exactly what I meant.
THERAPIST: Yeah, right, that's the part (inaudible at 24:48)
CLIENT: It was not stable.
THERAPIST: And so I think that the experience you have now will, like, reiterate a lot of what you grew up with...
CLIENT: Possibly.
THERAPIST: ...as opposed to...
CLIENT: I mean, the truth is that I spent almost exactly as much time in this system as I did, you know, at home when I was a kid. You know, I've been here in this area in the proximity of the university since 1998. So, what does that mean? So, as you say, I mean, I guess that's just more farther (ph) for your adjustment there. There is some kind of problem with object constancy or whatever, however you want to put it. There's some problem with that process of conforming, you know, like saying it's neutral (ph) to ways I can. It's scary for me at some level, I think. You know, this process of kind of, you know, evaluating what the norms are and conforming to them without feeling as if I've been somehow compromised, you know, is upsetting and I think of what comes to mind is, you know, is going off to this Hassidic Hebrew school and coming home wearing [ritual fringes] (ph) tzitzit, as they would call them, and, you know, my mother freaking out. I mean, it was just kind of like multiple I don't know. Somebody once said that I sound as if I'm, like, the child of an anthropologist no, a missionary, and that kind of resonated with me. [00:26:41]
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think, like, (pause) I think it really makes you quite anxious and it's pretty propounding dislocating to have to deal with sort of the values and trapping (ph) of a new setting or a new institution. And, you know, that sounds like (pause) there's sort of two aspects with the Bank in that in part you started off saying you're feeling pretty good. Like, you know, let's say by conduct of parties you're sort of it sounds like fairly pleased with the nature of the project, with the kind of institutional support you have with the definition of your role, with what's involved in it, with, you know, you're a long way from being sort of stuck in a cube and then not being able to find an office (ph). You know what I mean? Like, a partner, as I thought you were oh, you're not getting (inaudible at 27:59) you don't know what I mean?
CLIENT: No, I'm shaking my head because I just can't believe that they were like that.
THERAPIST: Yeah, in those senses you feel very, you know, reassured and financially, like, well taken care of, but then there are these other things like the dress, the sort of dizzying amount of money, I guess, and these apparent values of a lot of the consultants who work there that, you know, are troublesome and disorienting and I think that also make you feel like you don't know quite who you are
CLIENT: [That sounds] (ph) quite who I am but the way it presents itself to me is as (pause) and this is wired because it doesn't really overlap perfectly with the questions that you just pointed to whether I'm worth it. You know, am I doing enough work to justify it? Am I, you know, coming up with enough product, say, to and it's weird because, you know, one premise of, you know, my skepticism about the kind of institution, the (inaudible at 29:34) and all of that is that nobody's perfect. (laughter) So why do I feel so anxious about, you know, justifying? I guess...
(crosstalk)
THERAPIST: ...nobody's [worth it] (ph) and not only that, I'm especially not worth it. (laughter)
CLIENT: I guess what it is though is that I want to make sure that the people who are within this system, who are kind of its arbiters, think that I'm work it. Like, I'm not looking for some kind of absolution or absolute, you know, kind of determination as to my fitness but rather I just want to make sure that I'm fitting in because my sense is that if you (inaudible at 30:24) at this rate and you don't conform in the way that's expected then, you know, the repercussions are especially severe. The truth is that that's not (laughter) completely (ph) true. Yet.
THERAPIST: Yeah, so there's something out there.
CLIENT: Well, yeah, multiple things maybe. I mean, better to have this problem than the problems I've been coming to you with over the last few months. (laughter)
THERAPIST: Well, I think (pause), you know, maybe that it's kind of another facet of the same problems, in that you maybe it's kind of a variation on the theme of, like, (pause) worrying about whether you're wanted and whether, you know, a place will be made for you. You know, before one wasn't then so you were really angry and worried by that. [00:31:44]
CLIENT: They made me a desk. You know, it was funny because I asked kind of casually if there's a work space that I can work at. But they made me a desk with a nametag. You know, like, sometimes you have magical thinking and that's just the way it is. You know, like, the first I had in my mind as the assistant showed me to it was, "God, did Kevin somehow you know, did somebody somehow figure out that I just feel dislocated and without a place and do this to make me feel better?" It was just so perfect.
THERAPIST: Great (inaudible at 32:20).
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: Sorry, go ahead.
CLIENT: I don't even know it was a very powerful fantasy. It was a very powerful fantasy and, you know, in order to do this or whatever. I mean, office politics. You know how they gratify the deputy chiefs of staffs. I mean, it's like I don't know what to say about this. I felt I had a fantasy that a place was being made for me being specifically rather than, you know, just in this sort of generic sense. I had a fantasy that people were just talking about how to welcome me in a way that...
THERAPIST: As though they knew how much it mattered to you.
CLIENT: As though they knew how much it mattered to me. And, you know, this has been done for me before. Like, Kevin has done this for me. Others have done this for me before in other settings. I haven't really known how to manage it. Like, I never I remember on those occasions I felt to myself, "Well, I'm not worth it" or well, you know, it didn't feel right. It felt surreal. There was a certain -when this was done for me before I felt this surreality and had a hard time, you know, for example, just sort of inhabiting the office sometimes or I don't know. I had a hard time with it. And this time, on the one hand, I feel like there's an adjustment that really at the price of much pain, frankly, I've been making there's some anxiety about whether I'm able to make the transition but I guess the way I understand it in the light of our conversation right now is just that I don't really know. (sighs) I'm struggling for something (inaudible at 34:26).
It's something about adjusting. It's something about the relationship between me and, you know, the place where I am and kind of my sense of security and stability. And, like, I don't know how to be in a kind of single environment. I have a flash of being in the library at University when I went back to San Diego after returning from The Netherlands. It's funny the memories that stick with you. This struck me somehow. There were two people, two librarians I guess or, you know, library administration of one kind or another. Middle aged women, walking up the stairs as I was walking down in the opposite direction. I don't remember anything they said to each other. They just were talking together and all of a sudden I felt, like, this wave of (pause) comfort isn't quite the right word. Anxiety, I guess, of one kind or another, related to the regularity of their experience of, you know, their work types. And I don't know, you know, I don't remember what they said to each other, I don't remember, you know, exactly the sort of cognition that came to my head. All I remember is that I felt anxious and what I felt anxious about was that they were coming to work every day I guess and that I was not. But the way that I remember it is anxiety about my having to do that or, you know, the [modal heard] (ph) that might have been or ought to have been attaching me to a similar system. [00:36:30]
So I think that's kind of to the point here (ph). (pause) It's hard for me at some really profound level. And that might be the whole bottle of work with all this stuff, in some sense.
THERAPIST: I wonder (pause) I wonder if there's a piece of it where you are actually kind of hesitant or resistant to attach or feel attached. And (inaudible at 37:36) maybe or (ph) worries about being disloyal to (pause)...
CLIENT: To?
THERAPIST: To your values or maybe your family in some way. I guess one reason (ph) that came to mind is, like, your mind freaking out when you came home with the...
CLIENT: Right. Well, it's funny because...
THERAPIST: Or then your dad with the sort of...
CLIENT: Well, Kevin was laughing about this, you know, (inaudible at 38:17). My father's first cousin was the executive secretary of the development committee, which is the body at which the Bank do joint planning. So, like, he was just a step below a vice president, basically, at the Bank. And he is an extremely high powered corporate lawyer basically in New York and it's his twins who are the Tandem School, if you know what that means.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, that's (laughter) the place. With Kevin's kids. So Kevin comes up to me...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 39:00) powerful PTA meeting.
CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's like they have to have Secret Service to enter the PTA meeting. So, you know, Kevin comes up to me. He's smiling and he's really nice and he said, "You know, there are no others in the world, are there?" I said, "No, I don't think they are. Why do you say that?" Whatever, "Because my (inaudible at 39:23) is playing football." So my family, in this setting, all of a sudden, is now something other than my family, as you've my family is (pause) and, you know, that didn't quite...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 39:40) or sort of like...
CLIENT: Yeah, it is right now. (laughter) No, actually, outside of the beltway and their residence but (inaudible at 39:48) come into town. So, you know, like, my identity all of a sudden, for everybody in the bank, when they see them righting them an e-mail, they think of my I guess first cousin once removed, you know, Tommy. And I love Tommy. Tommy is the sweetest man, you know, probably that I never met. He's whatever. His value system, I guess in the way that we're discussing it, has always been a little no, that's too exalted. His, like, identity, I guess, in the world, has always been problematic to us. I mean, Kevin the research project book that Kevin and I kind of met over was a critique of the Bank. (laughter)
THERAPIST: That's really funny.
CLIENT: (laughter) [It's just hard] (ph).
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 40:48)
CLIENT: In this system my family identity, kind of the place that I'm coming from, I'm pretty sure this is what Kevin was laughing about, you know, [some of this] (ph). You know, is an insider, is as a part of the system. And so when you say that it's problematic, you know, (inaudible at 41:06) of my family, I guess. I just have to chuckle a little bit but, you know, it does speak to a look, my family is both and both, you know. The other person who lived in New York was my Aunt Susan, who was blacklisted (inaudible at 41:23) social worker, you know. And yet, you know, the family member that she was probably closest to, not only because of geographical proximity, is just because they just got along so well, was Tommy.
So, you know, both of these threads really run through my family and these are just the secular threads. So in some sense I can pick and choose, although in the context of the present discussion that may make things more complex in other ways (ph).
Getting back to your question sorry to go off on a tangent I mean, yeah, I do feel there is something to this challenge or question or, you know, tension.
THERAPIST: And like you're going to lose something (inaudible at 42:20)
CLIENT: Like I'm going to lose something. Like there's something that helps me to kind of understand, to echolocate or whatever, to understand where I am in the ocean. And if I (pause) go in this direction, I'll lose it. If I ascent to being identified in this other way, I'll lose it and then I'll just be, you know, at sea. Be at sea. Which I don't think is true. I mean, I don't think it's true. I actually, you know, I'm gaining more and more confidence in my ability to at least function within this environment in a way that doesn't feel just gross.
THERAPIST: That's great.
CLIENT: Not perfect confidence, but some. So, you know, there's that. But I do have that anxiety and it's not very far from the surface. And, you know, I think for our purposes, you know, it's bigger than this. It's not just, like, adjusting to this context. I think it's kind of at the core of some of the things that I've been struggling with and come to you to kind of help sort out.
Are we close to 45 minutes?
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: You have that look on your face.
THERAPIST: Funny, I'm not aware of (inaudible at 43:56)
CLIENT: I know you do.
(crosstalk)
CLIENT: I'm unusually sensitive to these things so it's clear (ph). OK, so...
THERAPIST: So we'll talk more on Friday.
CLIENT: We'll talk more on Friday. That sounds good.
THERAPIST: In terms of billing (inaudible at 44:08) I just called (inaudible at 44:09), like, twice. They said they faxed me the EOB. They have not faxed me the EOB. (inaudible at 44:14) going to do. Maybe I'll try them one more time and maybe I will just give up and sort of make up a bill with the stuff that I've got and...
CLIENT: OK.
THERAPIST: And then I think may have you start billing them because I'm kind of...
CLIENT: OK. (laughter)
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 44:29)
CLIENT: (inaudible at 44:30) thrilled to do it right now, but we'll work it out. I think there should be no interruption in coverage (inaudible at 44:43) because I sent all the forms (inaudible at 44:46)
THERAPIST: And it's still with them?
CLIENT: It's still with (inaudible at 44:48).
THERAPIST: All right. (inaudible at 44:51)
CLIENT: OK, you too. See you on Friday.
THERAPIST: See you on Friday, yeah.
END TRANSCRIPT
