TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Oh well, okay. Two recordings, alright.
THERAPIST: Oh no, that's just the clock.
CLIENT: Oh, I didn't —
THERAPIST: The other one started ticking again.
CLIENT: I see. It must be a tickless clock somewhere.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Gotcha.
THERAPIST: It's a long story.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: Good morning.
CLIENT: Good morning. (pause) So, it's interesting. I found our discussion on Wednesday very useful.
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: (pause) I went to New York and did what I needed to do and things went well.
THERAPIST: Good.
[00:00:57]
CLIENT: I had a couple of good meetings, got some good feedback. I mean, in the end I basically just sat down in the cafeteria [down below the bank building] and wrote it. (pause) I think the way that I'm understanding part of what was going on at least was that I didn't know I was sick and I felt bad. I just felt disrupted and kind of, I don't know. Disregulated. Is that a word? (pause)
[00:02:14]
And the reaction to it was very strong. I mean, it was kind of as simple as that, I think. That was the thought that I had afterwards. This analogy of parallel (inaudible at 00:02:36) between our conversation and kind of my state of mind in the framework of our conversation. This writing project and my state of mind and the framework of the writing project, it was clearly the same phenomenon. (pause)
[00:03:12]
So it was interesting because, you know, I was way underslept. I really was not feeling very good at all physically. (pause) And yet I did it, I could do it. (pause) There's something about that. (pause) I wish I could recapitulate it exactly. It feels a little too simple, but maybe it's not. (pause) I remember thinking to myself as I was sitting down and trying to write this out. (pause)
[00:04:26]
You know, but however accurate a model this is, how closely it comes to the way people really understand the function of sleep, it was something along the lines of, without having slept much, you know sort of the accumulation of hormones, endocrine secretions, whatever, have accumulated in my body over the course of the day haven't been flushed out. Still circulating. And that was giving me the feeling of discomfort, and that feeling of discomfort made it hard for me to synthesize what I needed to synthesize for the purposes of this writing exercise.
[00:05:35]
Interactions that made me nervous also had a cumulative effect. (pause) They kind of interfered with some synaptic process. It made me very uncomfortable trying to do this. I remember actually pretty vividly sitting there having this rumination, and yet it was something about our conversation that made it possible for me to notice that and move on in a way that I just hadn't been able to do the previous week.
[00:06:28]
But I'd also been disrupted, and I also felt uncomfortable. (pause) I felt as if I was doing something wrong and now I had a naturalistic model somehow. Somehow now I could have a naturalistic model of what was going on again. (pause) It's a fantasy in some sense, but that's what I imagine. (pause) Somehow that was a constructed fantasy whereas, you know, the idea that I was transgressing and there would be consequences to it and I would be exiled for it and so on is equally a fantasy but made it impossible for me to do what I wanted to do.
[00:07:35]
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: (pause) One thing I did not — I mean, I'm sort of accreting random thoughts, I guess. I noticed that during the week when I was sick, my urine was very concentrated, which makes sense. You know, there were things that had to be excreted [as a virus goes].
[00:08:32]
So that means I wasn't drinking very much and after I finished writing this, I fed myself well. I guess I was drinking because last night I went to bed and my urine was clear. I say all this half-seriously I guess, but I don't know. I guess the power of the naturalistic model, right, somehow it normalized the sensation. (pause) It's just as much a story as the other, but somehow this is a more constructive story. (long pause)
[00:10:24]
THERAPIST: I wonder if there's something about the way these stories put you back in contact with your body that's simple. (long pause)
[00:13:05]
CLIENT: So I got some news yesterday. Jennie (ph) is either a month or two months pregnant.
THERAPIST: Oh my God. That's some news. Wow.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Congratulations.
CLIENT: Thank you.
THERAPIST: Congratulations.
CLIENT: I was interviewing this guy and it was late when she called, and we had a nice [sweet] conversation on the phone. (pause)
[00:14:02]
When I came back to the desk they'd given me over there, one of the thoughts I had was that (laughter) now I really need to get a handle on this. (laughter)
THERAPIST: (laughter) (pause) You're on it.
CLIENT: I think so. (long pause)
[00:19:21]
So Jennie (ph) and I had an interesting and kind of difficult interaction last night after I got home. [I'm thinking back]. I just had quite a few meetings yesterday and she'd been editing this piece and getting it ready for the communications director, getting him (ph) to sign off on it. I had my three interviews and went to the airport. They were overselling the plane. They were putting too many seats really on the plane, so there's not enough luggage space, so everybody brings on their bags so as not to pay a luggage fee.
[00:20:28]
I got on the plane and there was no room for my very small carry-on bag and they gate-checked it. I was kind of pissed off about that. It was totally full and the air marshal didn't come in time to give his thumbs-up so we sat on the tarmac for like 15 minutes. So I was kind of in an aggravated and tired way. I got home and was still kind of jangled, you know, jangly, whatever, and I came and Jennie (ph) immediately wanted to talk about what genetic markers they'd found. So I was listening to her and just, you know, still feeling kind of antsy and puttering.
[00:21:32]
THERAPIST: Was there a particular reason that you had genetic testing?
CLIENT: She had genetic testing to find out, I guess, you know, whether there was a risk to the — because she'd had it before. I guess this is something they have you routinely do when you're in your late 30s.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: So she wanted to tell me what they'd found, reasonably, but it was right after I'd arrived.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So this often leads to a fight. I was, you know, I was listening to her, but it was all so — just arriving and collecting myself and throwing off this annoyance and coming home. As she was talking, I was moving around the kitchen and she said "I got blah" and I said "oh, they found blah blah blah" and she said "no, they didn't find blah blah blah."
[00:22:37]
And what happens in these situations often is that, you know, I'll kind of not be ready to have a conversation but I'll let it go ahead anyway.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And I'll respond in a way that Jennie (ph) doesn't like, and she'll just like completely blow up the conversation. This is classic, right? So her tendency is just to abort — I guess that's not the right metaphor. (chuckles) But her tendency is just to end it in frustration, and my tendency is to go ahead with it, despite being distracted and frustrated. So, you know, we had that interaction and both of us felt really shitty about that because what we really wanted to do was just sort of mutually, you know, say hello and enjoy this moment of our life together, et cetera.
[00:23:37]
And instead we had like the umpteenth recrudescence [in this manner]. (pause) So, you know, as I was — a moment ago, I was reflecting on the parallel there between that dynamic and kind of my eternal dynamic on this balance of, you know, needing to put things off when necessary. Needing to say "you know, now I just can't do it right now. I don't feel — I need to arrive. I need to regulate myself."
[00:24:37]
And, you know, the need not to abort. The need to — I mean, I think that what happened last week, among other things, whatever else I may have been, was that I felt bad trying to go ahead with it regardless, or felt obligated to go ahead with it regardless. I had this sense of obligation at the very least. You know, I was unable to do so and abort it in despair. You know, I told a story about what, on reflection, was completely understandable that I have difficulty writing when I'm sick, that the sickness would make the process of writing more difficult.
[00:25:39]
But the story that I told about it was so catastrophic that it really lead to a major abortion, led to a major, you know — when I saw you last, I was really in distress. I was in a state of acute suffering. As acute as, you know, any episode I can remember off-hand. Now what happened this time was that I just went through with everything, you know. I delayed by a day then went through with the visit, finished the piece, interacted with the people I was scheduled to interact with, so on and so forth. And here I am.
[00:26:28]
But I don't know, there's something about this argument that Jennie (ph) and I had last week — or last night. It really really evokes this tension very well. I feel [like I would like to go out] and kind of see what the agenda is. I could see how it functions. (long pause)
[00:27:40]
I feel satisfaction. I feel like that just boiled our last two years of conversation into something very succinct and concrete. (pause)
THERAPIST: You've been able to be very productive lately. You know, talking about putting that together, kind of getting through this and getting the piece written and I think [it all connects].
CLIENT: (laughter) I see. Yes, good point. (laughter)
[00:28:40]
October. I don't know anybody whose birthday is in October. I guess it happens. (long pause)
[00:30:02]
THERAPIST: I imagine in here it may be the intensity of the demand to figure things out and the sort of sense of danger about the repercussions if you don't. The anxiety that goes with that is part of what makes it hard to think and put things together. (pause)
[00:30:57]
CLIENT: Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I think it just takes time. It's been hard to [put things] together in exactly that way. You know, I'm good at telling stories. I'm good at coming up with possible stories.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I just told a lot of stories about this process that took it away from what, at the end of the day, is actually pretty simple.
THERAPIST: Yeah, maybe it's more accurate to say that it makes it harder to be in touch.
CLIENT: Maybe. (pause) I mean, you know, I imagine that this kind of a schematic is something that had been clear to you at some level for a while. This seems like a pretty basic way of thinking about kind of, you know, things I've been struggling with.
[00:32:05]
But yeah, simplicity is not always so easy for me. I'm not sure that reflects a reaction to the intensity of the need so much as just a kind of personal habit of mine. But yeah, I can see that. (pause)
THERAPIST: Well, there are a few different things going on. There's something that gets sort of a bit persecutory about the pressure that you feel.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And that sort of gets you into a more abstracted mode where it's hard to, you know, be in touch with other feelings such as "but shit, I'm sick." And that's okay. (long pause)
[00:34:50]
CLIENT: Yeah, the persecutory mode is — (pause)
THERAPIST: Well, you know.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Is what?
CLIENT: It's a reality. I do often find myself falling into that kind of story. (pause) I think it's less about persecution than exile or, you know, just a feeling of fragility in these relationships. The persecution is more of an expectation than anything else. Anything could be a pretext or a rationale (inaudible at 00:35:53). (pause) It's the default assumption. (long pause)
[00:36:54]
My lungs are not quite back to normal. It's probably a little early for (inaudible at 00:36:48). (long pause)
[00:39:16]
I'm thinking about this airplane ride. (pause) How pissed off I got. (pause) To be inconvenienced. (pause) So, you know, there's the economy and political economy of the airline industry circa 2013, too many seats on the planes, too many surcharges, inconveniencing me to improve their bottom line.
[00:40:12]
And then I got off the plane, went straight to the luggage counter because the last time my bag hadn't come out on the belt at all, they just held it. So I waited around for 20 minutes for nothing before going over and then —
THERAPIST: Right, so this time you went over —
CLIENT: So this time I went over off the bat. He said "No, they didn't take it off the flight early. It should come out on the conveyor belt." I said "Which conveyor belt?" He pointed over to the conveyor belt and I waited there for 10 minutes, just stewing. I wanted to get home. I wanted to talk to Jennie (ph). And it turned out they had let them out on a different conveyor belt and there they were, sitting there for that whole 10 minutes during which time the line at the taxi stand had grown to the point where I had to wait another 10 minutes to get a taxi.
[00:41:19]
And I was furious. I was just fuming. I was really really hot. And I get this way. This is a very common phenomenon. I remember thinking to myself "Wow, you're way over the top, you know." I saw the line and I said "oh fuck" under my breath, but not totally under my breath. I said "oh fuck," and I think to myself "God, you're being so immature. You're being — this is really really excessive, you know." It's probably 15 minutes later, 15 minutes of time spent waiting that was unnecessary. (pause)
[00:42:10]
And, you know, it's an inconvenience. It's annoying that somebody, a wealthy corporate bureaucrat, is setting policies that directly inconvenience me in order to increase return to shareholders and him or herself, not coincidentally. But this pique is interesting, like the energy is interesting. And again, you know, there's something about just like reacting in this way that reminds me again of this tendency just to look at (pause) my failure of regulation and go off the deep end.
[00:43:16]
Or tell a story that involves persecution that threatens catastrophe. In other words, there's something about the progression to, you know, that intensity of feeling, that intensity of distress or anger or annoyance or whatever. You know, the speed with which I get there and the story that goes along with it, that feels common and relevant and like something that would probably benefit by some discipline of mine.
THERAPIST: And I also think further, like a combination of what's going on.
CLIENT: Okay, well, that too.
THERAPIST: We should stop.
CLIENT: Ah. Okay.
[00:44:12]
THERAPIST: Congratulations again.
CLIENT: Thank you.
THERAPIST: Are we good next week?
CLIENT: Yes. Oh no, we're not good next week, unfortunately. It's the same deal, I'm gone through Thursday. Tuesday through Thursday.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: So a week from today would be the next meeting.
THERAPIST: Alright.
CLIENT: Are you here?
THERAPIST: Yes, I'm here. I don't think I have anything on Monday.
CLIENT: Okay, okay. Well, if something comes up, then let me know about it.
THERAPIST: I will.
CLIENT: Otherwise Friday.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: See you then. Have a good weekend.
THERAPIST: You too.
CLIENT: Bye.
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