TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I don't know where to start. My weekend was so full.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: I could go chronologically.

THERAPIST: However you like.

CLIENT: Friday, I met up with my friends, Cricket and Caitlin and a lawyer friend to talk about purchasing a yarn store in the Square. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but. This nice place is closing, because the owner suddenly and unexpectedly ended up with custody of her eleven year old nephew. And the store did not turn up enough profit to feed her pre-teen boy, much less time for college. And nobody wants to see it closed.

And Cricket and Caitlin and I thought we could totally raise the money on Kickstarter to buy it. And we can run it as a worker owned co-op and as a non-profit and make it more of a community center. Because as much as well all love the current owner. Who is a wonderful person and a very talented artist. As much as we all love the store and the community that's built up around it, she has the business sense of a turnip.

And there's She has this amazing location right across the street from the Square and she does nothing with it. It's been immensely frustrating to many of us for many years. And so we leapt on to this opportunity and we met with a lawyer, who I have some concerns about.

We hired her because she is a friend of Caitlin's. She just graduated from law school last May. And does not have a job doing legal work. She has a couple She has had a couple of pieces freelance, but she's not working for a corporation and she's very green. [00:02:09]

So I have a little bit of concern about this. But on the other hand she has a license to practice law and while she might need to do research on our particular situation. It's not the case that any law school actually teaches anything about worker owned collectives or laws regulating them. It's a very specialized niche. So, whoever got hired would probably have to do research. I don't know.

She did point out several areas of concern that haven't occurred to any of the rest of us. We're meeting again next week, not next week, this Thursday night. And we all have designated action items to go research this week to bring to her, so we can figure how we're doing.

Dave is thoroughly opposed to this. He's horrified. He thinks I don't have enough time or energy and he is terrified that anything goes wrong with this plan it will send me into a mental health, death spiral. Those are valid concerns, but I want to do it anyway.

Dave also pointed out that you know, given that I dated Caitlin briefly and want to date Cricket and that, possibly, going into business with them is not the best idea. (Laughter) He might have a point about that. I don't know.

THERAPIST: I have no idea or comment, whether it's the best idea, it might be the simplest idea, but maybe (inaudible 0:03:44.7)

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, I figure Caitlin and I dated and then we broke up and that resolved amicably and you know, my feelings were hurt, but we're still friends.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: There was no long-term damage and we're all reasonably sane and healthy individuals. I think if we write the business partnership agreement correctly, so that it's very clear. How anyone of us can exit from the business deal without legal or financial repercussions, it should be ok. [00:04:21]

That's why these agreements exist, that's why you pay the lawyers big money, and to protect us in case things go south, but I don't know. Anyway, it was a good time.

THERAPIST: It sounds, I mean really it sounds exciting.

CLIENT: We had dinner and chatted and hung out for a bit. And we did business after dinner and hung out more. And Saturday—Saturday, I meant to go to a book talk before my, not a date, no really, we've agreed this isn't a date, Ashley.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I ended up not making it up to the book talk because I felt real sick, get out of the house. But I did make it to the not a date, no really, but we agreed I'd leave at ten, so that I could get some sleep because I had to be up early for an event Sunday morning. I finally left at 1:30.

THERAPIST: Left the not a date.

CLIENT: We agreed to drop the pretense the next time we see each other. Because obviously it's a date, it was ridiculous. I still maintain it was a good idea to say this first meeting is not a date. Because there's all kinds of history and potential for baggage and awkwardness. And Ashley has said, he was not sure, like a week ago when we were e-mailing about this, he had said that he was not sure he wanted it to be a date or not. Because he hadn't seen me in quite a long time and had all these memories of me from ten years ago and he didn't think it would be fair to apply to treat me as he would have treated the me of ten years ago, does that make any sense? [00:06:17]

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So, but it went well. We hit it off.

THERAPIST: Oh, that's great.

CLIENT: Talked for hours and hours and hours.

THERAPIST: When did it start?

CLIENT: 4:30.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Yeah and we also both had jobs of work to do. He was on call Saturday that called on to him to spend an hour.

THERAPIST: Where does he work?

CLIENT: He has a law degree, and a license to practice law, but he works tech support for a computer company. The legal job market is apparently terrible.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Most of the lawyers I know don't actually practice law for pay on a daily basis because the job market is terrible.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Yeah, there's one lawyer I know, who is managing a physics lab. And another lawyer I know, who's doing hedge fund financial calculations, stock. Ashley is doing tech support. And my sister is working in HR and none of them are practicing law for a corporate law firm.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Anyway, that's neither here nor there. He was on call. Until he got called into work and I had my laptop with me, so I figured if he was not talking, I might as well not talk and I might as well do some work. That was nice. It turns out that his apartment mate's fiancée, I know from the Internet from the secret poetry cabal. [00:08:05]

THERAPIST: Oh, I don't know about the secret poetry cabal.

CLIENT: I haven't told you about the secret poetry cabal, oh God. There's so much backstory. There's this professional organization, and I use the term professional very loosely here, called the Science Fiction Poetry Association. For people who write science fiction poetry and SFPA is a pit of bulls. It's really It's astonishingly, a homophobic and misogynistic organization. It's a horrible, horrible organization.

THERAPIST: Oh, you have maybe mentioned that. Go ahead.

CLIENT: Well, some people I know, some very close friends of mine, including Cricket, founded the secret poetry cabal to be a place for people who feel unsafe talking about their professional lives in the SFPA compass to mentor each other and kind of be writing group and a crit group. And help finding markets for their poetry and also emotional support.

Because at the time when the secret poetry cabal was founded, the vice president SFPA had launched a very public blog war against a friend of ours, named Vanessa, who is an immigrant. Writes amazing poetry and is a professor of literature. And it was really terrible for Vanessa.

The secret poetry cabal kind of serves a myriad purposes. And I'm involved in it because I'm friends with a bunch of poets and I haven't written a line of poetry since I was seventeen. But I read the stuff, but anyways, so Lucy, who is Ashley's [00:10:08]

THERAPIST: Wow, that's not a secret at all, who would want in all that?

CLIENT: So Lucy, who is Ashley's roommates fiancé, came in while we were cooking Saturday night. And then Ashley introduced us by first names only and of course I go by pseudonym on the Internet. And Lucy is a very common name.

But anyways, we started talking about what we do and what are hobbies and interests are, you know, small talk when you meet someone for the first time. And Lucy said, "And in my spare time I edit this small literary magazine and I'm kind of bewildered by the fact that we had a human nomination this year." and I said, "Wait a second." -

THERAPIST: (laughs) Stop right there.

CLIENT: "Are you a member of the secret poetry club?" and she stops and looks at me and says, "I don't know, are you a member of the secret poetry cabal?" (laughing) It turns out -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It turns out that her other partner, her girlfriend, is married to someone, who is dating Lori, who is my best, best friend from freshman year of college. And there's hilarious coincidences, it's a small world. But yeah it went well. I really enjoyed spending time with Ashley. I ended up giving Lucy a ride back to her apartment because she missed the last bus. On the ride back, she asked, "Will you be hanging out with us in the future?" And I was like, "I hope so, I don't know, I want to." Ashley and I are going to see each other again Sunday.

THERAPIST: That's cool.

CLIENT: We're going to a sacred harp sync.

THERAPIST: Sacred harp sync?

CLIENT: Yes, sacred harp is the name of a song book of sheet note music, it's the most popular and largest songbook for sacred harp or for sheet note music and then we're getting dinner afterwards and then who knows. It's a work night. So, I can't stay out until two again. [00:12:07]

THERAPIST: Right. (Pause) Sounds like great stuff.

CLIENT: Yeah. And Sunday was the walk for change to raise money for the area rape crisis area.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I was walking on Cricket's team.

THERAPIST: From what I know anyway, I've seen some patients who have done some good programs there. I talked to some of the technicians, it seems like a really good place.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's a really good place. We we're doing the walk. And after the walk we all went to Cricket's house and ordered food and hung out for a couple of hours. And I don't know, things with Cricket are weirdly unsettled and tense right now. I had told her that I was interested in her romantically and how -

THERAPIST: Now I remember Cricket. You talked to me about Cricket a while ago and I didn't put her together with the yarn store opportunity. Now I get it.

CLIENT: My social circle is -

THERAPIST: Picking up weekly, yeah.

CLIENT: I guess tightly knit would be the polite way to phrase it. Some people might just say incestuous. But anyways, Cricket's response to my saying that I was interested in her was -

THERAPIST: Didn't she say wait?

CLIENT: Yeah, wait. She's writing a novel -

THERAPIST: Wait a while.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Six months.

CLIENT: Yeah, until September when her kid goes to college.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 00:13:40)

CLIENT: Is it?

THERAPIST: Not from now, but I thought I know she told me in January -

CLIENT: February. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Ok, yeah. (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah, but that whole social circle is very physically affectionate with platonic friends. And so a lot of the times that we're together, we spend time hugging or cuddling or whatever. [00:14:01]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I just I don't know, I'm filled with terror that I'll overstep the boundary unintentionally and not even realizing it. Which is a little uncomfortable. (Pause) Also, her boyfriend wants to sleep with me. And hasn't said anything yet. And just It's very clear he's interested and I don't know how to handle that because I don't want to sleep with him. He's a great guy. I love him like a brother. He is smart and kind and funny and a wonderful human being and I'm not in the least attracted to him. Yeah. But in spite of all that, we had a good time hanging out Sunday afternoon.

THERAPIST: (Pause) I'm sorry, that was What we're you guys doing hanging out because the -

CLIENT: After the walk for change -

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, sorry. I missed the part for the walk. I missed the walk, go back to the walk for change. You also saw her -

CLIENT: On Friday.

THERAPIST: That was a Friday for the yarn thing.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Ok. Now I'm good.

CLIENT: (Laughter) And when I recount everything that I did this weekend, it sounds like a lot, but I've actually spent the last day and a half kicking myself for being lazy and not making it to the book talk.

THERAPIST: (Laughter)

CLIENT: Gosh (inaudible 00:15:51) what's wrong with you? You did nothing all weekend. You didn't even Actually, I did quite a bit this weekend.

(Pause [00:16:00] to [00:16:15])

And then I had to go to work today and work was miserable. We're porting our design from one technology to another and the entire port process has been a shit show of mismanagement.

THERAPIST: Part of a chip to or another or something.

CLIENT: A whole chip had been designed using, oh, there's so much jargon. Ok, a technology process defines the physical bombardment of ions onto silicon to produce transistors. And that is designed and tested and done by the fab, which is a separate company. So we had designed this particular chip to Global Foundries 28U, 28 stands for 28 nanometers, U, God only knows what that stands for, some acronym internal to Global Foundries, but whatever. In 28U transistors are a particular length, transistors have a particular threshold voltage, metal is a particular width.

THERAPIST: I think I get it and they port to a chip with a different standard.

CLIENT: Same chip, same circuit, but the transistor sizes have changed. The metal resistances have changed. Which means that, if your traces on your chip that carry the signal their resistance changes then that will speed your signal travel changes, which changes your clock cycle on the chip, and we have a goal, we want this chip to be four gigahertz. And we have to redo a lot of the design to make it work.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, the reasons that are occurring to me is that you spent a long time doing the entire interior decoration for a 3,000 square foot Victorian and then the person is like "We're not going to buy that, we're going buy a 2,800 square foot contemporary.

CLIENT: Right, yes.

THERAPIST: You've got to port it to that.

CLIENT: Like another analogy is; you know very carefully doing the layout in some god-awful hell like Microsoft word, and doing it all in Times New Roman and getting all of the margins and page breaks exactly how you want them, and then the customer saying, "No actually, we want it in Aerial, not Times New Roman" and now your page breaks are all over the place.

THERAPIST: Yeah, except with like way more moving parts.

CLIENT: Yes, the port process has been I've been involved as an alpha tester for the new design kit. And it's just been a shit storm of miscommunications and mismanagement and frustration. And Global Foundries not delivering on their promises to AMD. And everyone involved with it is frustrated and cranky and miserable. And this morning we released the new design kit to the entire design team instead of just the alpha and beta testers.

THERAPIST: I see, so how many is the full increase in usage is that, I mean roughly?

CLIENT: We went from five alpha testers, to ten beta testers, to now 60 people, and everything broke for everyone. Nothing worked, it was just demoralizing. And I spent all day on the phone with tech support and CAD and I didn't get as much of my own work done as I wanted to. Because, in addition to the things I had no control over like, two hours on the phone with the fucking support guy. All of that made me so demoralized that I had trouble focusing and you know, even after bugs got filed and enclosed, I couldn't go and do the thing I wanted to do because I was just depressed and sad and miserable. [00:20:11]

THERAPIST: Sorry, if we back up just a little bit to the weekend and I'm not trying to skip over what you said, but in part, in spite of what you just said. Does it I imagine it could be a little (pause) anxious talking to me about good exciting things that have happened, say like over the weekend. You're probably imagining I would be bored with that or I find some things to criticize you about from what you did.

CLIENT: Not consciously.

THERAPIST: All right, well good.

CLIENT: But yeah, so as a way to ratchet down my anxiety from feeling miserable about work, I ended up spending quite a bit of time today re-reading e-mails from Ashley or discussions between myself and Cricket and Caitlin, about the yarn store. Things that are going well and make me happy, and solve the short-term purpose of preventing me from bursting into tears at work, but it did distract me from the tasks at hand. I don't know. I need better coping strategies.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause [0:21:53.5] to [0:22:09.2])

THERAPIST: What comes to mind?

CLIENT: Right now?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'm most likely thinking about how much I'm looking forward to seeing Ashley over the weekend.

THERAPIST: (Laughs) You're excited.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I'm pretty smitten.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don't remember you talking about someone like this. (Pause)

CLIENT: I don't think I've started any new relationships since I started seeing you.

THERAPIST: Yeah none that sort of lasted or you were affected by. There's people you've gone on dates with and -

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Right. And I (inaudible)

CLIENT: I guess I started seeing you about two or three months before I broke up with the last couple.

THERAPIST: No, I think it was Oh, when they moved me?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I thought it was before that. Our relationship (inaudible 00:23:35)

CLIENT: Right, right. (Pause [0:23:38.6] [0:24:21.7])

I love Dave a great deal, he's very important to me and I love him to pieces. But we've been together nine years. The newness has kind of worn off a little bit. We did taxes together.

THERAPIST: (Laughter)

CLIENT: Sunday afternoon, after I got home from Cricket's

THERAPIST: That's so sexy.

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. Yeah, we misjudged withholding and owe the IRS two and a half grand, it kind of sucks.

THERAPIST: That was a contest (inaudible 0:24:56.8)

CLIENT: Yeah. It's not that I love Dave any less, but, (Pause) I guess that there's very little anticipation in my relationship with Dave.

(Pause [0:25:27.1] to [0:25:49.9])

THERAPIST: I guess I'm worried about, you seem to be hesitant to my impression is you're sort of thinking about, excited about and fantasizing about a little bit.

CLIENT: Just a little bit. (laughs)

THERAPIST: You're, you don't seem to want to talk about that, you we're referring to it -

CLIENT: Right, right. I think in part, I'll feel awfully stupid if three weeks from now it turns out to have been a terrible idea and doesn't work out. Because that's happened before.

THERAPIST: So, I will then think you are stupid and unable to see what you should have seen and couldn't possibly have worked. Is it like that?

CLIENT: No, I'll think I'm stupid. For not being able to see that it couldn't have possibly of worked.

THERAPIST: And if you say it out loud then the stakes are higher? I'm not trying to convince you to say it I just the only reason I thought the way I said it was you know what you're writing about it. (Laughter)

CLIENT: You make a good point. Now Dave pointed out in a completely different context earlier this week. No, late last week that I have all the self-preservation instincts of a potato.

I'd been telling him about how I was concerned about how green this lawyer is and how she has very little experience doing small business law, much less the type of small business we want to run.

I said, "I could run some of this stuff to my sister because she's also licensed to practice law and she's just as green as this person is. But at least she won't be charging me 150 bucks an hour to go do research."

And Dave was like, "No, you know why? A, you hate her. B, you don't respect her. C, she hates you. D, she doesn't respect you. E, she'll tell your parents and then your parents will make your life miserable. F, do I really need to keep going?" (Laughter)

It's like but, but, I want to feel like I have some kind of connection with my family and you know. It would please Krista to think that I value and respect her professionally and that's what caused Dave to say I have the self-preservation instincts of a potato.

(Pause) But anyway, I'm kind of aware when I get caught up in the excitement of new things, I don't exercise the best judgment and do not take adequate precautions to keep myself from getting hurt and While, I like Ashley a great deal and had a great time Saturday and I'm very much looking forward to Sunday. There's also under current of trepidation.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and I had the impression for you that there's a possible double whammy Well, not just an impression, you actually made it pretty clear. It would suck if things didn't work out with him because that would be too bad. It seems you have fantasies about how it could go really well and if it didn't go that way that would just be a drag.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But there's also the kind of Punishing yourself, it sounds like you're anticipating too. Like not just being bummed, or frustrated or whatever you would be if it had worked out. But also like, (inaudible) yourself in that.

CLIENT: (Pause) I want it to work. I'm almost afraid to say so out loud.

THERAPIST: You're relationship with Ashley.

CLIENT: Yeah. I feel a little flushed because I forgot my knitting bag at his place, Saturday. Because we had agreed it was not a date, I brought my laptop and my knitting bag and also because he was on call and I knew there was a possibility I need to spend a couple hours entertaining myself.

THERAPIST: It wasn't quite as easy as leaving a handkerchief at his place.

CLIENT: Not on purpose.

THERAPIST: (Laughter)

CLIENT: It really, really, truly was not deliberate.

THERAPIST: I understand.

CLIENT: At all.

THERAPIST: I'm just teasing you about that.

CLIENT: And besides we had leftovers from what we cooked and he's the one who gave me the good Tupperware, instead of a throw away take-out container to take my share home.

THERAPIST: That's definitely on him.

CLIENT: Yes, it was.

THERAPIST: Noted. (Laughter)

CLIENT: Which I guess is the equivalent to leaving a handkerchief if you do know, you're the one hosting. But yeah, I don't I really dislike that kind of conniving, it drives me crazy. I'd much prefer people communicate in clear text instead of in code.

THERAPIST: Oh ok. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was accusing you (Crosstalking 00:32:00) (inaudible)

CLIENT: Oh no, no, no. Actually I feel really strongly about communicating in clear text dammit. Because I'm really bad at reading subtext. I'm really bad at reading social cues like that. I feel a little foolish for having forgotten my knitting pouch. Because then I had to ask if he had it and if could he please bring it Sunday. I don't want to come across as that kind of person who does that sort of thing on purpose because that's trouble. (Pause) I spent far more time berating myself over that than is warranted.

(Pause [0:32:53.6] to [0:33:20.6])

Now I kind of want to defensively explain the factors that led to me forgetting my knitting bag. But, I don't think that would actually be a productive use of time.

THERAPIST: Strange too, cause I'm sure that you have thought that. usually if one were going to be indirect like that, it's a ploy one would use to be able to be in touch again when that was uncertain. Which it isn't.

CLIENT: Right, we had already decided mid-week before our first meeting that we were going to go to this singing session on Sunday and then get dinner afterwards. The only question was are we going to call it a date next Sunday or not, and it was pretty clear that yes we actually were. And then there was explicit verbal confirmation that that's what was happening. Because I have a preference for communicating in clear text.

(Pause [0:34:19.6] to [0:35:10.1])

THERAPIST: Do you think these go together that is part of the wariness about being emotional in some way?

CLIENT: Well, just the interference with these things.

THERAPIST: Right. (Pause) The (Pause) worry about how you'll be perceived for leaving the knitting. Which I won't go into. I feel bad about, and the worry about being excited. (Pause)

CLIENT: Maybe. I mean (pause) they are both related to being perceived as too eager?

THERAPIST: Which means not in as much of control you want to be and (Pause) and not self-possessed as you wanted to be. Want to be or feel safe being.

CLIENT: Sure. I think there's also a layer of icky gender role shit. It's distasteful for women to pursue men. I don't agree with that statement, I think it's bullshit. I try not to let it impact me, but it is a part of the surrounding culture that I am a part of and I can't quite I haven't quite deconstructed all the horrible gender bullshit my culture has hosted upon me.

THERAPIST: Sure. Yeah, must have been tough.

CLIENT: You sure?

THERAPIST: (inaudible 0:37:30.6)

CLIENT: Right. As far as I can tell, most of the rest of the country hasn't even tried and doesn't want to. I'm very grateful that my social circle, at least well, extended friends of friends, etcetera. Or at least try to deconstructive in our interactions with each other.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: (Pause) And I also think part of it, might be, kind of a fear of that I am steam rolling over people and not giving them adequate space to say no or back away. (Pause)

And of course this is tied into things, that my dad said repeatedly when I was growing up. Was if people are going to be your friends, you should wait until they come to you. You shouldn't go chasing after friends. Never understanding the friendship context because the thought of me having romantic relationships sounds really horrifying to my dad.

He wouldn't just but and that's the way my dad operates socially. He'll go to a party and just stand in the corner, waiting for people to come approach him and receive his wisdom and charm and charisma. And then he's angry inside and disappointed when people don't come talk to him. He spent the whole night standing against the wall alone and lonely. But he won't approach people and I could hypothesis all night long about what underlying pathology leads to him behave that way.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: In the end of the day, what matters is, that's not what I grew up with. And my dad told us explicitly, let other people come to you, don't embarrass yourself going to other people. If Muhammad can't go to the mountain, the mountain won't come to Muhammad. Which is horrible to consider yourself equal to the founder of a world-wide religion. But anyway, I think that's definitely part of the fear of being seen as too eager, over eager, tying into both gender bullshit and my dad's bullshit.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And here as well, I think in terms of your degree of expressiveness about (inaudible 00:40:11) before about it.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Do you feel embarrassed? I would see you as (inaudible 0:40:28.9) (Pause) kind of, shamefully aware, not expressive or something like that. Just being excited about something that you're actually excited about. (Pause)

CLIENT: I taught Ashley how to cook 12 years ago. I don't remember this at all and I'm so, my memories of that entire period of my life are so fractured and kind of vague and unclear.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But Ashley spent almost an hour, possibly more, Saturday night, telling me all these stories and interactions we had when I was dating his housemate 12 years ago, but I have no memory of at all.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: I taught him to cook apparently. I introduced him to tea, which he now loves. He has 50 different varieties in his kitchen from me to choose from. (Chuckle) He said I made a positive impression on him, all those years ago.

THERAPIST: Other than teaching him how to cook, that only happened by over multiple interactions, I assume.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And -

CLIENT: I spent a lot of time at my boyfriend's apartment. I did a lot of cocaine because I didn't have a mealtime. Because the campus food was disgusting. I did a lot of cooking for myself and just the way my class schedule and my then boyfriend's class and work schedules worked out. He often wasn't home when I was cooking, but Ashley was and so we ended up cooking together for the whole house. Or so Ashley tells me.

THERAPIST: Are your memories better or less fractured and more complete before this period.

CLIENT: Not really.

THERAPIST: I guess that's from growing up too.

CLIENT: Right. (Pause) I don't know if we've talked about this, but my parents, when I was growing up would frequently tell me something that I remember very clearly and very sharp, crystal clear detail, never happened and then they would accuse me of lying. [00:43:30]

I don't I don't really trust them, even things I do remember, where the mental image is very vivid, but there is a part of me that questions, "Did this actually happen or is this something I fantasized about or dreamt about happening?" If it's not in my journal, I don't trust my memory, pretty much.

And that's been better recently I don't know, it's just starting about sevenish years ago I can remember things and From as far back as seven years ago and have reasonable confidence that my memory is accurate, but anything before that, anyone's guess. I don't know.

I have a scar on my thumb that I don't recall getting, but my parents tell me it's because I had hand surgery my sophomore year of college and you'd think that would be memorable, but I have no memory of this. And they could be making shit up, I don't know.

My parents tell different stories about my wisdom teeth and when I got them out and how many I got out each time. There's three competing stories of, of course you got them out at the same time, it's crazy not to do, to do it any other way.

Or versus, I got them out, one at a time for the span of two years because my dad had absurd paranoia that the surgeon would cut a nerve in my face and then I would be unable to smile. So he fought the dentists and only let them take out one. Then the dentist would be like, "No, she really needs the rest taken out." and he'd be like, "Pick the worst one." and they'd battle over. And that's the version I remember, but not the version my dad said. One of the version my mom says is, "Well, there was only one that was causing problems, so we just got that one out and then the other three started causing problems later and you got those three out at the same time, later on." [00:45:34]

THERAPIST: Wow. (Pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't -

THERAPIST: That's horrible. I mean that.

CLIENT: I can't believe I haven't mentioned it here before. It's kind of a big deal. Not having any memories I can trust.

THERAPIST: I (Pause) You may, early on have mentioned something about there being unreliable about some of the I didn't – I'm certainly capable of forgetting things, it doesn't seem like this sort of thing I would forgot. But I Seem like the sort of thing you would tell me either, so I -

CLIENT: I might have just forgotten to tell you. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Curious that we wind up unsure what you've done.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But we should stop.

CLIENT: Thursday morning?

THERAPIST: Thursday.

CLIENT: Take care.

THERAPIST: Thank you, you too (inaudible)

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