TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: (sighs) (pause) (sighs)
THERAPIST: Good morning.
CLIENT: Morning. (sighs) (pause) So I'm waiting to hear from something from New York and I'm having the usual response. I think I'm also feeling a little bit unresolved about, you know, our interaction and our process, productivity, etc. Also usual. At any rate, the run over here was kind of a bellwether (ph). [00:01:15]
Although (clears throat) I think I was possibly unusually conscious of, you know, kind of the process. In other words, at one point I just stopped and started to walk. I remember thinking to myself, again more explicitly than has sometimes been the case in the past when this has happened. A couple of times since I started running over here. You know, "I'm fine with being a couple of minutes late."
You know, hauling ass, I didn't want to. I didn't want to run at the speed it would take here to get here at 7:45 as opposed to 7:46. It's probably the difference. [00:02:24]
So I mean, I guess (pause) I guess that's pretty plain and maybe the process is also plain and a sign of something. Being a little bit more conscious of what my response is. I'm not articulating it well. Being a little bit more conscious of the extent to which these kinds of things which are upsetting and (clears throat) confusing often are, you know, the outcome of directed processes rather than just some -
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: random phenomenon. Mitochondrial. (ph)
THERAPIST: epiphenomenal? (ph)
CLIENT: Um. (clears throat) Yeah, I guess epiphenomenal is one way of putting it. Although, you mean that the physical response is epiphenomenal? Um. [00:03:36]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I guess so. I guess that's one way of putting it. I mean it's only epiphenomenal in the sense that -
THERAPIST: What I meant was, [I was sort of saying kind of lightly that] (ph), like you're seeing (inaudible at 00:03:48) that way then more psychological and meaningfully related to -
CLIENT: Well, I mean it's psychological when it's not conscious. When it's conscious, if it's conscious then it's less psychological and more just, you know, kind of a decision. In other words, there are a couple of ways one could use psychological in this context. But, I mean, any sort of mental process, I guess, is ultimately psychological.
But if, you know, I'm running to our appointment at 7:45 and I say just explicitly, "You know, I don't want to get there at 7:45. I want to get there at 7:46 and 30 seconds." And I take steps to make that happen and indeed arrive at 7:46 and 30 seconds. [00:04:50]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Then, I don't know, I suppose that's the psychological process because any cognition and decision is psychological. But it's for me, for whatever reason, I don't know if this is meaningful or significant, it's when it's unconscious and I just for no reason that I can really point to slow down in the middle of the street in a way that would kind of delay my arrival. That feels like a psychological phenomenon.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Whereas the first scenario does not.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: And I think that it's convenience from the standpoint of our process in the sense that that, you know, the more conscious it becomes, allowing for, you know, different decisions potentially in different situations, the less need I have of somebody who's belief (ph) it is to counsel on the psychological. Making this an actual therapeutic process rather than simply an analytical one. [00:06:01]
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: But at any rate, the action as always was epiphenomenal in the sense that it's to be thought. (pause) Although it's probably complicated. I think often people rationalize the things that they do. Anyway, we go around and around about it. But it didn't feel epiphenomenal, it felt like two parts of a coherent process. Slowing down that with the I missed the point that you were making? (pause) [00:07:15]
THERAPIST: (sigh) That was the point. I was just substituting [what happened to be] (ph) a slightly different word over kind of like what you were saying. And to me it seems like we're not really far apart on this. (pause) Yeah.
CLIENT: Well, I mean, like this is a bigger issue that I think I wrestle with. And, as a result, we wrestle with it. You know, the question is, "What kind of an (inaudible at 00:08:02)?" You know, assume that I feel fine about this particular instantiation of this process. But assume that I'm not, assume that it's very troublesome as it often is. You know, where do you intervene?
Do you intervene with the phenomenon or do you intervene with the epiphenomenon? Do you intervene with, you know, kind of the, an attempt to understand, you know, the thought behind it better and try and monkey with that? Or do you intervene with some kind of physical manifestation or process?
I mean, I think we've been kind of beating around the bush of this dyad for a while now and maybe not so productive. And, you know, it comes up in a bunch of different ways. One of the ways that it comes up that has been, you know, the subject of much debate in our conversations, has been, you know, whether an instrumental or an analytical approach is the right one, I guess. [00:09:13]
That feels like basically the same kind of question. If you say that something is epiphenomenal then, you know, the next step is to say, "Okay, well what's the phenomenon and how can we intervene or understand or appreciate the phenomenon rather than the epiphenomenon, which is relatively uninteresting." I guess that was why I was reacting that way.
THERAPIST: I have always maintained, I mean that's obviously part of my whole view which I made clear to you, that these things are connected.
CLIENT: Sure.
THERAPIST: And all I was doing is, like three minutes ago when this started, you said, you know, "Hey, these things seem more meaningfully related to me." Then, as though, the one is a kind of, you know, physiological, nearly physiological, process. And I said, "Yeah, as though it were epiphenomenal."
CLIENT: Okay. I got you.
THERAPIST: That's all I said.
CLIENT: I missed the subjunctive.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: The subjunctive food (ph) was lost and, therefore, a diversion. But, yeah, now I get you. (clears throat) (pause) [00:10:40]
THERAPIST: And (pause) And the next thing you're describing is (pause) a (pause) Sorry I'm trying to (inaudible at 00:11:22). It's sort of Well, what I think is, your frustration in a related, perhaps a point of disagreement between us, about whether any more instrumental intervention would be more helpful.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Like, in other words, you have often felt like, "Marshall, tell me what to do when this happens, when I get in this place or this mood. What do I do? What do I do about it that's going to make it better? Don't just," in some sense, "sit here and talk to me about it or try to understand it because that's not doing anything as far as I can tell." (pause) [00:12:38]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Like the problem is that I'm slowing down. The problem is not that I'm ambivalent about coming to our sessions because we're having a fight, or because we're in the midst of a conflict (inaudible at 00:13:00). Or because it doesn't feel like I'm making progress in these other areas. (pause)
THERAPIST: Um.
(long pause) [00:14:41]
THERAPIST: Um. (pause) Hm. Well. (pause) (clears throat)
(long pause) [00:16:51]
THERAPIST: (clears throat) It seems to me there's some important aspect of this to do with (pause) control. And again, to me it feels very much like you're sort of wanting to and trying to kind of wrestle with me over these things. And to like assert yourself in a really very strong way.
And I think that, as I'm sort of puzzling over why that would be, and one thing that occurs to me is it seems related to how you feel, I think, very much out of control when it comes to, for example, the kind of thing that I think is going on at work now that you sort of mentioned briefly a few minutes ago. [00:18:21]
When you're waiting to hear from somebody or you're waiting to hear about something from someone, usually at work, but maybe it happens with Jennie (ph) as well, I don't know. And there's kind of not much you can do but sit and wait. And that's usually the time that's very difficult.
At least I have the impression that, you know, one aspect of what feeling in addition to the disconnection is a kind of lack of control. You know, you're sort of passively waiting for the other person. And it seems like you're kind of, in a way, quite frustratedly, I think, doing (pause) not like the opposite of that here, but something where I feel like you're kind of (pause) (inaudible at 00:19:49).
So for example, what you just said a minute ago was about, you know, "Yeah, because looking at why I " This is what I understood was you were saying, "Yeah, I was okay. I made this conscious decision it was okay to be a minute and a half late here. I don't want to run harder. It's not related to the things we're talking about or what's going on between us."
CLIENT: No. The opposite. I was saying that it was. I wasn't saying that it wasn't related.
THERAPIST: Oh, okay.
CLIENT: No, I was saying, you know, we've been having kind of a conflict.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know. And it seems like you can have conflict with a psychotherapist.
THERAPIST: (laughs) (cross talking at 00:20:42)
CLIENT: Or of course to the extent that you can have (cross talking). You know? What's another drop of water in the ocean. Right?
THERAPIST: (laughs) What do you mean?
CLIENT: (laughs) Why do you go to see a therapist except to have a conflict? (laughs)
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: You know, dog bites man. But, no, I mean, yeah, that was obvious.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.
CLIENT: I mean, at the time, I was very clear in my mind I was feeling kind of frustrated.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, specifically one of the sort of overt areas of frustration that I've articulated a couple of times.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Is the fact that you're late a lot.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And, you know, this was a very clear outcome. So, no, I wasn't -
THERAPIST: What you're saying then is in part you're dealing with like "A," I'm annoyed and frustrated and Marshall and I, you know, it feels like we're in a fight over this so -
CLIENT: [I guess. Whatever it is.] (ph)
THERAPIST: I mean it feels like that in a way even if at another level you're saying, you know, "This is how we're mixing it up over this." But, okay, fine, whatever. And then it was like, "Eh, he's probably going to be later anyway." Which would be fair. You know, statistically you'd be right. You know?
CLIENT: No (inaudible at 00:21:57) to be on time today. (laughs)
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: (laughs)
THERAPIST: (laughs) So that's important.
CLIENT: (laughs) (inaudible)
THERAPIST: Yeah. So I'm being as difficult as possible.
CLIENT: (laughs)
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: Well, I mean -
THERAPIST: I'm going to be late except when, you know, you allow yourself to be late, probably in retaliation, then I'm going to be like "bang" on time.
CLIENT: No. No. I mean, it kind of wasn't like that.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I mean, one of the things that annoyed me -
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: about last Friday, or whenever it was the last time coming back was, you know, at one point you said something like. "Well, you know, maybe you think I'm a bad therapist." And that really pissed me off -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: because, you know, I mean, who the fuck cares if you're a bad therapist? You know, I mean that's not relevant. But, you know, as it happens, I don't. I do think your conscientious. That's not really the issue here. [00:23:08]
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: So, yeah. I mean I guess it's significant that, you know, that I assumed that you would be responsive. I think another of the sort of components of my feeling a conflict was, you know, a question which I've raised before. Which I guess in some sense was a test of about, you know, how instrumental, so to speak in a different sense, you are in negotiating or navigating these kinds of conflicts.
You know, if you were someone who, you know, used an instrumental kind of strategy you might have deliberately been late, you know -
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: just to see what would happen. Just to kind of probe the interaction.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: And create an opportunity to investigate the response. And I don't like that, naturally.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Because it makes our interaction I would not like that, not on top of the fact that you had said very explicitly that that's not something that you do. [00:24:19]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: You know, I would not like that.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Because it would mean like many other interactions in like a professional setting, you know, you have to suss out, among other things, whether somebody is being up front about, you know, their motivation and their approach.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Or, you know, which is exhausting, I find. I find that particularly exhausting.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: And maybe some people don't feel as difficult or conflicted about it.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: But figuring out, you know, the Honesty is a funny word to use in this context in a sense that it's a game that people play, you know, for a variety of reasons and a variety of motivations. And it's, you know, it's I guess on some level it's dishonest but on another level it's just kind of life. And yet I find it very difficult to navigate that. It's very upsetting to me and so it would be -
THERAPIST: When people aren't up front about their motivations? (cross talking at 00:25:17)
CLIENT: Yeah. Or when people kind of provoke you. People kind of provoke you and people are not explicit and upfront and honest about where they're coming from. In this environment, it happens a lot. There's a lot of game playing.
THERAPIST: In this environment, you mean ?
CLIENT: Oh sorry. I mean in -
THERAPIST: At work?
CLIENT: In kind of Well, in kind of a lead powerful -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: institutional settings with a lot of ambitious people.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay.
CLIENT: That is a very frequent -
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: thing to encounter. And it's very You know, I participate in it very reluctantly and with a lot of anguish -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: for many of the reasons that we've discussed.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's very hard for me to navigate between the scenario in which somebody is being explicit and honest, and the scenario in which somebody is being duplicitous and game playing. [00:26:25]
THERAPIST: Uh huh. Yeah, I mean deception is kind of inherently a part of that whole MO.
CLIENT: It is. It is. It is inherently part of that whole MO. And it's very hard for me.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It causes me pain.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I navigate it. I don't know why I've chosen, at some level I have chosen -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: to navigate it. I seem to have done so rather than what might be a more natural decision for somebody who finds that painful, which is to, you know, choose an environment where people are more up front.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: So I have done and because it's painful it would be frustrating to encounter in this setting. And so, you know, my conclusion, had you been late again this time -
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: later than me, would have been either that you really are a bad therapist (laughs), or I mean, I don't mean that. It's a stupid way of putting it. You know, that you're not that conscientious or scrupulous -
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: you know, about this interaction. [00:27:37]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Or that you're playing a game.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Maybe for, you know, laudable reasons, but playing a game nonetheless. An explicit contravention of the assurance that you made -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: some months ago.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean I guess to make a similar assertion now. I would not consciously do something to you (pause) (sigh) Like I mean, I wouldn't lie to you about it. I mean, (pause) because (pause) Because I think like my upworthiness (ph) is crucial for this working. Now you or anybody in therapy, you know, is going to have a varied and uneven sort of experience at being able to trust at various levels the therapist. [00:29:37]
CLIENT: Sure.
THERAPIST: And that's actually, I think, a kind of inherent and crucial part of the process really.
CLIENT: Sure, sure, sure.
THERAPIST: I mean in a way that encompasses most of what we were talking about.
CLIENT: Sure. And that's one of the reasons why it made me mad.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, progressively madder when you were late is that I felt like, you know, we've gone to some lengths, time and expense -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: to create a rapport.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And it was, you know, potentially damaging to me.
THERAPIST: And, [not wanting to] (ph), I feel genuinely bad about it. But I also wonder why, what about In other words, I'm not asking this to try to defend my being late, but I am wondering (inaudible 00:30:34) responses to by being late. And I'm wondering why it feels like it's really kind of a betrayal well maybe betrayal is too strong, maybe not to you?
CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know. I was thinking about it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, I have some friends that are always late and I meet them and, you know, it's annoying.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Often I'm late.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I mean that's kind of understood.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I guess But that's not the analogy here.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: The analogy is here is like if there were a professor who was always late for class.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: You know, that's something -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: that the students would rightly remark on.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know? If there was an employee who was always late, you know, always came at, always punched in at 9:05. [00:31:34]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: You know, that would be something that HR would remark on.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, so I think in some sense it was just a, (sigh) (pause) it was like an institutional critique, or I'm not quite sure how to articulate this.
THERAPIST: Maybe -
CLIENT: But at another level, I mean the issues that you brought up was control.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I mean that was the lens that you offered initially -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: to understand, you know, my particular response today.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And again, I think that the things that it was in response to were several but, you know, this was clearly one of them on some level. [00:32:33]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And (clears throat) so I think I take, you know, on one occasion it's accidental, if it's systematic it feels like a value judgment. It's saying very explicitly well, you know, "My time is more important than your time."
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: You know, because I've already killed the extra five minutes.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: You know, and I'm going to stay five Even assuming that we stay as we should, you know, five minutes later -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: That's still five minutes that I'm not going to have back, or ten minutes of fifteen or however long it might be.
THERAPIST: And then I And then five minutes of mine that I've prioritized in a way.
CLIENT: Yeah. You know, I got up five minutes earlier in the morning.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.
CLIENT: I left the house five minutes.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: So, I mean, in and of itself it's not that significant. But, you know -
THERAPIST: [It's a principal.]
CLIENT: it's insertion of status at some level. [00:33:31]
THERAPIST: Oh, I see. Oh, I see. That adds something for me too. I mean (laughs) it could be selfishness, but it's status. You know what I mean? Like it could just mean, "Yeah, that guys more important than anybody." But it's not. I guess it relates specifically to, like the way it feels to you, is in particular like it's an insertion of a kind of status.
CLIENT: I don't think I've ever articulated that to myself, per se.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I'm not sure how far I would go with it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But (clears throat) at times it has felt, what I can point to -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: A cognition that I can point to is the kind of monetization of your time versus my time.
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: If that makes sense. And monetization is, you know, at least in this society, a kind of status. [00:34:36]
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: [And then it being a status insertion.] (ph) (long pause) (sigh) [00:35:32]
THERAPIST: I guess that makes me wonder if that's something that you feel, whether I'm asserting it or not. You know what I mean?
CLIENT: Yeah, no, I take your point. (pause) I don't think so. I mean, normally the way that I understand, you know, our clock is that you're providing a service and that there's some value, at any rate, to having it bounded in time. And I don't think it bothers me in particular. I think I'm asking you for something, and so when you ask somebody for something I guess that establishes some kind of hierarchy between them in some sense.
It's not something that I'm overwrought about or that feels particularly troublesome to me. But (pause) (sigh) I don't know. I mean, just let's displace this to another setting. You know, when you have two friends and one of them habitually late -
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: you know, why would, like some people are very easy going about this. [00:36:55]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But some people aren't. You know, some people really get bothered by it, even with their friends. Why do they get bothered? They get bothered, you know, at some level because they're being selfish, but at another level because they're kind of asserting something potentially. Depending on the relationship and how it's understood.
You know, they're saying, you know, my If, for example, they always come and say, "Well, you know, I had to finish up something at work." Jennie (ph) has gotten mad at me for this before.
THERAPIST: I guess it occurs to me as we're talking that there's I feel like there is a, I think it is like even woven into our interaction right now about this in the following way. It seems to me consistently as you're making your points, that you almost like have a style of argument, a consistent (ph) style of argument, about which is to assert the reasonableness of your reactions. [00:38:13]
You know? In a hypothetical, "One person is late the other person is going to feel like this, and it's an assertion of this." That's not really an explanation of why you feel that way. That's a kind of legitimization. You know, it legitimizes feeling that way because it's reasonable. Which I think is striking to me because -
CLIENT: Because you're not disputing it.
THERAPIST: No, not at all.
CLIENT: You're Yeah.
THERAPIST: I mean, obviously my take is like, one person might be upset because they're very rigid and, "We said ten o'clock it's ten o'clock, and ten 'o' one isn't ten o'clock." Another person says, "Yeah, you're selfish. You know, you just do whatever you want."
Another person says, "Like, well you know, I don't even exist for you. It doesn't matter for you because it's not like "It's more like being self-absorbed. It's, "You're not even thinking about my time. You're just off doing some other thing." You know? There are like fifteen different ways it could feel.
CLIENT: And you're asking, "What of those fifteen ways is it for you?" [00:39:20]
THERAPIST: Yeah, because I'm interested in -
CLIENT: And I'm returning to the formulation that, "Well, you know "
THERAPIST: "It's perfectly reasonable for me." [I'm charactering you now.] (ph) But, yeah, obviously my interest is in sort of, you know -
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay. And then like I feel bad about being late. (cross talking at 39:40) I feel bad.
CLIENT: (cross talking) I got it. I got it. I got it. (pause) (sigh)
THERAPIST: So anyway, my hypothesis about that is that there's this It comes across to me as though there is almost a status aspect to that where you, in a way -
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: sort of somehow you're feeling you may have a lower status and need to be, you know, defended, legitimized. Something like that.
CLIENT: I don't know. I mean, maybe. Maybe.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I suppose any response from me could possibly be interpreted as a -
THERAPIST: Absolutely.
CLIENT: confirmation. (laughs)
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: As a confirmation just by the very fact that I'm arguing with you. [00:40:46]
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: So (laughs) I'm screwed. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Yeah, I don't know. The status thing, I don't know.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I think control resonates more for me somehow than status.
THERAPIST: I see. (cross talking at 00:40:58)
CLIENT: Although they are obviously closely related.
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)
CLIENT: I'm just sort of trying to -
THERAPIST: Yeah. Sure.
CLIENT: recapture the, you know, thoughts that I had on previous occasions.
THERAPIST: Sure. (pause)
CLIENT: I remember thinking at one point, "Well I'm glad I brought it up because it's now it's not going to happen again."
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: You know, now it will be clear and I've made my point clearly and I've been fairly, you know, explicit and sharp in my expression.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: This was a month or two ago. And so that would suggest very clearly that it was some issue of control here.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: That when you didn't show up as I had, and I was just kind of standing outside the locked door in the dark, going blind (laughs) -
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: (laughs)
THERAPIST: All alone. (laughs) [00:42:07]
CLIENT: All alone. (laughs) You know, I was just out of control. I didn't have any control over the situation. And you know I, through this kind of frank airing of the subject, I had asserted control, so I felt.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And then it was doubly frustrating when it turned out that my assertion of control was for naught. And I think I felt that in New York quite a bit, you know, where there just in this constant dynamic of, you know, feeling like I've been able to assert control -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: and feeling, you know, good about it. And then it turning out to be out of my control and not hearing for a little while. And then it would be confirmation that my intervention had been successful. And then, you know.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So there's just been this constant patination (ph) of, you know, attempts to assert control and an inability to do so.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And the sense that I had been successfully able to do it and discovery that, in fact, I wasn't. [00:43:11]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: That has been I think upsetting so that it feels like there's an analogy there. You know, so there are three -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: agents of control here. There's you, there's me and there's the clock. And I sense the latter of those three is asserting itself at the moment.
THERAPIST: Alas.
CLIENT: Alas. But, yeah, that does resonate.
THERAPIST: Okay. We'll talk more on Friday.
CLIENT: Okay. See you then.
THERAPIST: [Have good day.] (ph)
END TRANSCRIPT
