TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: You cold encase it in a soundproof (inaudible at 00:00:08). So both Jennie (sp) and I have gotten in a car since I think last, and driven sort of. Jennie (sp) is going away for a conference, the first time she, or I, has been away since Grayson was born. I’m not certain whether the best thing to do is, I think I’ll probably get, we’ll have a babysitter who can spell me. [00:01:05]

I’ll also probably be pretty tired.

THERAPIST: You talking about Thursday?

CLIENT: I’m sort of deliberating over whether to cancel on Thursday, and we should probably, I mean, you need me to make the call soon.

THERAPIST: When’s Jennie (sp) leaving?

CLIENT: Leaving tomorrow morning.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I mean, it’s basically, the issue is basically kind of how I feel, and if it goes fine, you know, we have two friends, we have a friend coming to stay the night along with me, so it’s not—

THERAPIST: Right. Where I’m going is I had a couple cancellations tomorrow morning.

CLIENT: Oh, I see what you’re saying, so we could substitute tomorrow.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: She’s, yeah, that’s probably not going to work.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah.

CLIENT: She’s, she’s leaving at 11:45, so she’ll probably leave, it depends upon the morning, I guess.

THERAPIST: The earlier one is at 7:45.

CLIENT: I think that sounds good. I would like to consult her, and make sure she’s comfortable with that logistically. I have to take the car to the auto repair anyway, so that actually might work fine. Let me give you a, call her as soon as I get out of here.

THERAPIST: No problem.

CLIENT: Then I could give you a ring. Failing that, I probably, you know, if we don’t do that, it’s probably safest to cancel, I think.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Because, you know, I don’t want to leave it to the last, can’t leave it to the last minute.

THERAPIST: Yeah, sure.

CLIENT: So—

THERAPIST: Let me just write that down here.

CLIENT: So we’ll cancel it now. In other words, we’ll cancel it now and then the open question is whether tomorrow morning works.

THERAPIST: Right. That’s the twenty-seventh. Okay. [00:03:06]

CLIENT: I had a good talk with my sister about a strategy for, I had a couple of good talks. I had a good talk with Jennie’s (sp) stepdad, I may not have mentioned. He wasn’t like enormously helpful, but you know, it’s like every time I sort of verbalize, vocalize my kind of perception of, you know what I’d like to be doing and where it’s going, but it feels a bit more comforting, it seems a bit more mine, you know. So and I had a nice talk, very nice talk with my sister.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: So, I mean, I guess I’m a little worried about, sense this, a little bit, as I set up my set of obligations. [00:04:06]

I’m not sure that, I don’t know, I’m fumbling a little bit for how I want to express these things, but the long and short of it is I feel worried about fucking up. I feel worried about letting Jennie (sp) and Grayson down, and sometimes I displace it onto someone else, like Jennie’s (sp) dad calls on Sundays, and I spoke to him briefly last Sunday, and he was a little grumpy, and you know, I kind of displaced this worry about myself onto him. And I talked to Jennie (sp) afterwards, and she said, “Yeah, he was really grumpy. I’m not sure what is going on.” So, in other words, you know, I’m aware of not being a judgment that is external to me, and yet that’s the way it sometimes manifests. [00:04:58]

I don’t, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at some level, and I don’t, I don’t yet feel troubled by it. I will if I’m still having difficulties sending out all the resumes and stuff in a couple months, but for now, it just, I’m just kind of noticing it. Yeah, I feel worried about letting my family down. I feel a little bit, you know, Jennie (sp) and I had a decent talk cut short, as might be predicted, by the baby waking up. We put him down for his nap, talk, and it lasted twenty minutes, but it was a good talk, and I think we kind of got done what we needed to get done, and we’ll certainly do it this evening after he goes to bed. [00:06:01]

But the kind of, basically what we said was, what I said was, you know, I need fifteen hours a week during business hours, and you know, I need flexibility to do stuff on the weekends. That’s my work. You know, which includes both the employment stuff, you know, five hours a week for employment stuff, you know, which maybe that’s a gross underestimate, but it’s cut and paste, ought to be okay. And then ten hours during business hours for them, and so, you know, we figured out how to get babysitter, you know, for that time so, you know, I can actually maybe in the mouse, maybe, you know, in the cafe or nearby, whatever, have that certain type of work. And it was not, it was not a difficult conversation. I realized that Jennie (sp) is sensitive to some of the resentment that I was feeling when she kind of, you know, anticipated and was bending over backwards a bit to do stuff that I’ve been carrying on in general, you know. It’s nice. It’s nice feeling that, you know, mutual support in our relationship. [00:07:12]

Yeah, so, you know, whatever anxiety I had, I guess, that we discussed on Thursday, is interesting in its own right, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t, the kind of worst-case scenario was (inaudible at 00:07:31). interaction. It was sweet, actually, the interaction, it was nice.

THERAPIST: Well that’s great.

CLIENT: It was sweet. But, you know, I do find myself kind of reflexively feeling some stress about just being kind of subordinated. You know, the stress about Jennie (sp) having a place and me not having a place. Stress about being, you know, cast in the role of this kind of you know, servant, or facilitator. [00:08:08]

Of others, including my son, you know, so it’s not like it’s a rational feeling or one that I can endorse in any kind of reflection, but I feel it, it’s palpable, it’s me. I think those are the two sort of emotional, I don’t know, the high emotional notes right now on the downside, on the cost side of the balance sheet. You know, on the other side of the balance sheet, Grayson had his four-month checkup today and this is my birthday today, and yeah, the physician was very effusive, the pediatrician, she’s really nice, we like her a lot. [00:09:10]

And she was just, he was smiling, and it was pretty sweet.

THERAPIST: Oh, that’s fantastic.

CLIENT: So yeah. It’s good. I sent my uncle the very concise synopsis of that stuff I dug up. And he didn’t know anything about it, nothing. And, you know, again, I think it’s probably relatively significant that episode on his mother’s side, so it’s kind of interesting. He’s going to put me in touch. There’s apparently a Providence branch of the family, so if he’s in touch with one of the cousins, so we can fill up the family tree. [00:10:08]

He as, he seemed very, like he rarely responds very quickly, and he wrote me back from his phone like half an hour after I had written it, so it was very, it was a nice interaction. We’ve been starved for those. It’s funny, in my, we have a box of family photographs that I hauled out after Grayson was born, and he’s in a large number, he was a really big presence from like ages, I don’t know, one to five or so, as he’s working (inaudible at 00:10:49). He’s less, he was always observant, you know, but anyway, he’s in a lot of pictures, and I think those that he’s not in, I think he took, so you know, I mean, after he had his own kids, it’s natural, and I think he and my father were close at the very end. [00:11:12]

But there was this religious thing dividing us, and one of the interesting things about that episode is how multigenerational this probably, probably this is a primeval phenomenon, if you think about it. But I don’t know, it was nice. It’s nice. I mean, I think, my sister is in Pittsburgh as are they, and I don’t think they’ve had much contact, so it’s not that they’re not cordial, but it’s difficult. So it was nice to have this exchange.

THERAPIST: Oh, good. I think you’re feeling sort of in a way, kind of more open about, and less avoidant of the work stuff than sometimes in recent months.

CLIENT: I don’t know, I guess I’m getting.

THERAPIST: It’s obviously, like talking to more people, and feeling good about (inaudible at 00:12:12). [00:12:12]

CLIENT: Oh, yeah, no, I mean, these have been dates that are longstanding, so if that’s true, and I wouldn’t say I talk to a lot of people, and I did talk to a couple of people completely unproductively right after, right after I quit, and the (inaudible at 00:12:28), so I don’t know. I mean, I feel better about it. I don’t feel as fucked up about it at the moment. I think the concept of, you know, getting something very low-key and having projects work that I’m doing that’s unrelated feels very sound and appealing to me. You know, something in the admissions department, whatever. [00:13:00]

You know, something, not grunt work, but something that I wouldn’t be bothered leaving at five, just completely forgetting about it. You know, basically if we want to say in Providence, so this is a calculation, and you’re the third person that I’ve vocalized this with. You know, if we want to stay in Providence, getting an academic job is almost impossible, but if we stay in Providence, then, it happens to be very wealthy and institutions and admissions department stuff, you know. And the reason college tuition is fifty thousand dollars a year is because you involve all these superfluous, you know, administrators. So why not exploit that? Anyway, that’s the (inaudible at 00:13:53). You know, and the fact is that the academic job market is so fucked up for that very same reason, because they’re only hiring adjuncts, you know. [00:14:05]

So whatever. It’s like, you do the market analysis and say, “Okay. Well, let’s be on the right side of that.” And the other side of that is that they say, I don’t know, we still have not yet completely unraveled the mystery of why I feel so fucked up about the intersection of vocation and you know, employment, but there’s something there, and it feels as if, you know, sort of circumventing that by having a, you know, remunerative, minimally remunerative job that does not feel like the alpha and the omega probably would be an advantageous strategy to take. You know, I have the qualifications to make that not a completely, you know, obnoxious subordinating, subordinated position. So theoretically, I don’t know how it’s going to go. You know, maybe I just have to take pot luck. [00:15:03]

But at any rate, that’s, yeah, that’s my thought process, and you know, see which of the hundred institutions in the Providence metropolitan area wants to hire me. So, so that is my current working conception. And, I mean, as I say.

THERAPIST: What frightens me a little bit is I don’t know what went into your thinking about being in an admissions department in particular, but—

CLIENT: Ah, that’s generic, but maybe there’s something.

THERAPIST: Yeah, whatever. I guess what I thought was interesting is like you’re reading people, doing applications a lot.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, yeah, you mean, something that was difficult for me.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Maybe, yeah. Why not?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I mean I guess, again, this is not, that was purely meant to be. [00:16:00]

Like there’s a funny joke that this pomophilosopher (sp) makes. He says, (Latin), which is like, whatever, something, a Latin phrase that many philosophers going probably back to the Romans have used, means, it’s translation means, I am a grammatical example. Not my name is Grayson, but, rather, but I am a grammatical example. So that was not meant to be substantive, it was merely to be a grammatical example. But, you know, you know, assuming that there is something to, you know, these kind of Freudian slips, I think that, you know, in narrative terms, that’s probably the most interesting part of the administrative side of, you know, of academia, is admissions department. It’s like you have the most contact with the, I don’t know, just the sort of poignant and interesting, you know. [00:17:14]

Decisions get made there that, you know, they’re consequential, that really have meaning for people in their lives, and we read about people’s lives, and people’s essays, and that’s quite frankly, as I think about it, I haven’t done so before, but does, it sounds like that could be cool. Anyway, it, yeah, so we will see. We’ll see if Jennie (sp) ends up wanting to stay in Providence, stay at MSU, anyway. There really, the other, I mean the other remote possibility which we’ve begun to discuss is whether we can wangle a spousal hire at MSU. [00:17:59]

Which would be and off, you know, like a fast-tenure track. That’s not something I, I didn’t really want to keep her, I’m not sure how far that would extend, but we’ll see, we’ll see.

THERAPIST: I’m glad they want to keep her. That’s a good thing, I would imagine.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. No, she’s gotten a lot of nice validation of that sort. They know they fucked up with the maternity leave, and something like this obviously has the potential to make somebody pretty significantly so. Yeah, I feel less fucked up about it than I have in a long time. I haven’t yet done anything about it, mind you, so maybe the fucked up feeling will return. Again, I have this kind of sense of foreboding that, you know, that whatever.

THERAPIST: It does seem to me, as you said, you haven’t of that many people. [00:19:10]

CLIENT: Yeah, or anybody outside my family.

THERAPIST: Right, but it does sound a little more opened up.

CLIENT: Possibly. I mean, I guess, yeah. I guess, I mean, at some level, this inquiry or inquisition into why, what in the hell is going on is a little bit academic, as it were. I don’t know. I don’t, you know, I keep on coming back to this episode where I was on the stairs at the (inaudible at 00:19:50) library. I don’t know what to say about it, and I don’t know how to get at it, you know? And it just feels like such a, you know, such a kind of primeval mystery. [00:20:01]

I would like the, this process between us to result in having at least some better understanding of what it is. You know, we can talk about it, and have, and do talk about its dynamics, sometimes ad nauseum, I’m sure for both of us. But what’s up with that? I don’t know. So I guess, you know, at some level I am impatient with requests to kind of have everything cut and dried. At some level, I really would kind of like to have at least a useful working hypothesis. But at the end of the day what really matters is, you know, that all of us in our household, Grayson included, are you know, appropriately employed in the things that we’re supposed to be doing. [00:21:02]

The pediatrician gave him an A plus in baby. We were very pleased about that. You know, they were doing—

THERAPIST: Sounds like a very good review.

CLIENT: What’s that?

THERAPIST: Sounds like a very good review.

CLIENT: Yes, the performance review was, he’s not getting fired. Yeah, you know, that’s kind of at this point, the proof of the pudding, that’s the eating, the eating. Eating is not really kind of this inquiry, but it sure would be nice. It would be nice, nice to have a (inaudible at 00:21:45) to it. And basically, if, you know, I were to find a good situation, I would feel like we’re done, you know. [00:22:03]

And yet, if we were done and you know, we were still kind of in the dark about what was going on, I’d feel a little funny.

THERAPIST: What is it in particular about what you would feel in the dark?

CLIENT: I don’t know. Just kind of weird. The level of distress, the degree of contradiction and inhibition, and the amount of disruption that it’s caused, whatever it is. [00:22:57]

I don’t know. I’m sure, maybe that’s what this novel thing is for, just to come up with a plausible scenario. It doesn’t really matter if it’s the right one, the extent that that’s a meaningful project, maybe those are the two projects. Maybe that’s where this parallel project kind of really spoke of complementing our interactions. Maybe that’s where it comes in. That’s plausible. I haven’t actually really started writing like all the work that I’ve done has been more along the lines of kind of planning it out, and you know, you could do that ad infinitum, really. My sister said during the course of our conversation, “Oh yeah, I’ve got a novel too. I never write anything down, but I think up a plot and this and that and the other thing.” [00:24:00]

I’d like to be a little bit more productive than that. Maybe it’s not important. I think it is somehow. It’s important to write down one scenario. Like when it’s not written down, you have every scenario, like every possibility, is superimposed on all the others. You know, it’s like One Thousand and One Nights. (Long pause) [00:25:00]

(Long pause continues) [00:26:00]

(Long pause continues)

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess. Right, well I think that’s kind of very often the thing for you. I mean, with, I think the writing provides a pretty sort of clear example where you suggest like the issue isn’t as one might expect it to be coming up with one narrative that seems just right. [00:27:09]

For you, you know, there are many narratives superimposed on each other, and the issue is overcoming the kind of passivity and inhibition that seems to keep you from actually doing the writing in the first place. And that tends for you to come from worries about either worries about doing something for yourself that’s in your interest but maybe not enough. [00:28:07]

And the interests of the people around you, or in reaction to feeling like something isn’t really for you, and it’s really for somebody else.

CLIENT: I’m not clear on the difference between the two of those. Worries about—

THERAPIST: Well like with you have felt at moments, this is sort of the most recent iteration of this, like, you know, Jennie (sp) hasn’t been, you haven’t felt this all the time, but there have been a few moments where you felt like even though you’ve been skeptical that it’s you and not really coming from her at all, that she’s sort of taken her work more seriously and not sort of made enough space for your work and this and that. I know this is not what you said about the conversation today, but—

CLIENT: I was feeling that last week. [00:29:00]

THERAPIST: Right, and that yeah, and I think some other point, and you know, that kind of pushes a button for you. I mean, and then the other one is more like your worry that you mentioned today, of failing, fucking up, letting Jennie (sp) and Grayson down, not being there for them.

CLIENT: The second order problem caused by the first order problem.

THERAPIST: I actually think they’re two different, well the question are they two different problems or are they the same problem?

CLIENT: I’m worried about reacting to the first problem by, with a response that makes the second problem. I think, I mean, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess that is. I had been thinking, you know, that one is a mom problem, the other is a dad problem, for similar shorthand. You know, like, you know what I mean? [00:30:05]

CLIENT: I’ve had this thought at various junctures myself, so I can proudly insult you for posing it. But it does sound very Freudian.

THERAPIST: But yeah, you’re right, I think it can kind of mix together.

CLIENT: Well, you know, as mom and dad mixed together to create me. Well, yes. That is, I think that’s kind of our working conception. So I’m a little lost on—

THERAPIST: Why I said that?

CLIENT: Well yeah. I just kind of got lost. I’m a little tangled up. So what does it mean that these things are, these are the two problems? Oh, that’s right. these are the two things that get in the way of, for example, writing. Kind of inhibition and lostness in space and time that comes about as a result of at least intersection of these two anxieties. [00:31:22]

Which may or may not be kind of causally implicating each other. Yeah. I mean, one difficulty is that because I’ve always had this, at least, you know, in my non-early childhood amnesia induced failure to recall. You know, I’ve always had this difficulty, and you know, in some sense I just never sort of had the experience of not having it. [00:32:03]

You know, it’s always been a struggle, you know, looking back to a very early age, so not having had the experience of failing to struggle with this, I have habits, you know, I have habits of mind, I have, you know, kind of process that’s sort of been defined and articulated and so on by these inhibitions. And so it’s a little like learning to walk again, I guess, trying to figure out what it would be like to avoid them. I don’t know what it would mean, and, you know, among, I have the, probably not very productive conception, a fantasy, or something, that you know, that I’m very, my creativity itself is somehow the product of the tension between, you know, one and the other. [00:33:05]

Or that, you know, the struggle against this particular set of inhibitions. If I didn’t have, had the inhibition, you know, it’s like I wouldn’t have any juice. I’m very open to the idea that that is not a very useful way of looking at things. It sounds a little like the, you know, the fantasy of alcoholic writers not being able to write if they don’t have booze. But, you know, they in fact may (inaudible at 00:33:42). Hemingway didn’t have that, you know, not having delusions of grandeur, but you know what I’m saying. You know, it’s like, did he, would have had a difficult time writing if he wasn’t drinking, so I don’t know. I don’t know what to make of that, but I do have that conception somehow. I just like, you know, just putting it in the kind of less kind of, you know, question (inaudible at 00:34:03). [00:34:03]

I just don’t know what it would be like not to have this, not struggle against it. Not to, you know, like there are kinds of habits of mind and process that seem almost certainly to really be, you know, for example, just gathering a whole bunch of—And you know, some of it is like natural cognitive style, and some of it probably methods that I developed to, you know, kind of deal with the fact that I just get really scattered when I’m in the grips of this anxiety. I don’t know. I’m just musing. And Jennie (sp), let me just divert the conversation to something more concrete. [00:34:58]

So Grayson’s growing incredibly fast, and one thing that means is that he’s outgrowing, you know, the massive, unbelievable number of clothes that we’ve received. We bought like five outfits or something, and we have like I don’t know, a hundred, and so he’s outgrowing them, and periodically we need to sort them and figure out what actually fits so we don’t have to cram it in the drawer. So you know, I said, “I really want to do that this week before you go, Jennie (sp).” And knowing that, well anyway, I said I really want to do that. And so what I did, and this is completely typical of me, is that I took all of them out, and I laid them all out on the bed, and I sorted them, and you know, I don’t know, fleecy things with feet, and the fleecy things without feet, and the, you know, fleecy things that are just, whatever. There were twelve piles, and I said, “All right, let’s do it tonight.” [00:35:59]

Well, needless to say, we didn’t do it that night, and so I put the piles aside, and then we had to do something, whatever. So this is I don’t know, five or six days ago, sitting in these piles, all of his clothes in two piles ever since then, and Jennie’s (sp) like, “Why don’t you just do it bit by bit? Why do you have to take it all out of the drawer?” And this is, she knows that this is my method, and she knows that I’m very efficient when this happens, but it makes interaction between us very difficult. Now my, we’ve talked about this, I believe. You know, this aspect of my cognitive style, and you know, when I was a kid, you know, my room would be really messy and then I would take everything out, you know, put it in the middle and kind of distribute it to the places where it went. And it’s very pervasive in various, you know, kinds of projects. I always do this. Gather, gather, gather, gather, put it all in the middle and then at some point, you know, I distribute it to the proper place. [00:37:02]

And I think we’ve talked about it in terms of just having a lot of chaos and looking for some kind of strategy to manage chaos whether you think about chaos as, you know, external to me and our family or you know, in my head, you know as a product of, in part of these tensions that you’re describing, this tension that you’re describing, you know, over these things that I’m anxious about. But you know, I think we’ve talked about it in terms of, not just sort of the you know, who knows what goes into some of these native cognitive styles, but it’s a way of managing a kind of disorder, or sense of disorder, or feeling of disorder. But at this point, you know, that’s kind of the way I think. That’s kind of the way I write. You know, it’s kind of the way that I do all of these things. So what would it be like not to have the things that have produced it and the things that it was kind of natively designed, in some sense, to you know, to, the environment that it was designed to operate? [00:38:11]

I feel, I don’t know, would even function properly? Would I dispense with it, and if I dispense with it, what would replace it? And if nothing replaced it, then would I be able to write at all? Would I have any creative process at all? It feels like, you know, my creativity, and what’s unique and interesting and characteristic, at least, about, you know, what I do is bound up in it. And at some level, I guess, that also means bound up in the inhibition. You know, bound up in the disorder, which might also explain in part why it’s been so durable. [00:38:59]

Are you following, or have I (inaudible at 00:39:11)?

THERAPIST: There’s, no there’s something that I’m not following. I think I get what you’re saying about your cognitive style. The piece that I’m not following is so, like with the clothes, it doesn’t sound—

CLIENT: What’s the chaos?

THERAPIST: Well, it doesn’t sound like there was a problem. I mean, there’s a problem that you involved in together go through them, but there was not a period of inhibition as I, here. I mean, you know, you decided you wanted to do this, you sort of went about it in your way, you didn’t wind up having time to do it, but I haven’t gotten a sense from what you said so far, that you’re like, you know, sitting on it for three weeks and frustrated and tense and—

CLIENT: And there’s nothing wrong with it, per se.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean that sounds different to me than like—

CLIENT: I see what you’re saying. [00:39:58]

So in some sense, it might a very evocative example. It’s not an example of what I intended it to be.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean, that’s why I was asking, because I didn’t know that there was some way that it was that I failed to understand.

CLIENT: I mean, I guess I’m bringing it up now, not because I particularly thought it through in particular, but because right before I came here we had that conversation, and so—

THERAPIST: Another example would be you know what you said about your writing process. Again, maybe there’s something I’m not understanding, but you know, in a way you do. You basically pile everything in the middle of the room, and then I assume you kind of organize it and put it where it goes, like that. That doesn’t sound like a problem. I mean, the problem, as I understand it, it when you can’t do anything.

CLIENT: I guess what I’m trying to, and yes, this is helpful. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I feel in some sense like I keep, like at some level, and I’m kind of keeping the inhibition with me on the assumption which as you point out, maybe, you know, countermanded by all of these examples, keeping it around on the assumption that I would just not be me if I didn’t have it. [00:41:21]

At some important level, which sounds like again, kind of like this classic, classic instinctual rationale for, you know, kind of keeping a vestigial developmental defect. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what to say about it. It’s like what, it’s like what psychotics who won’t take their meds say, you know. It’s like yeah, exactly. [00:42:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think it’s like what somebody who’s manic says. You know, well, I mean, it’s really part of who I am. I don’t want to tamp it down because then I wouldn’t feel like me, if that’s what you mean.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Psychotics who don’t want to take their meds often say, “Well it’s the meds that’s causing the psychosis.” That’s why I was confused.

CLIENT: Oh, I see. Okay. Well I defer to your clinical judgment.

THERAPIST: I’m just trying to get it straight in my head.

CLIENT: Manic depressive’s good.

THERAPIST: So I guess there’s something that feels linked between inhibition and then putting everything in the middle of the room and organizing it.

CLIENT: Yeah. That is definitely true. And, you know, like who knows whether I’m just stretching. [00:43:05]

But, you know, we put off doing the sorting for a long time, so maybe it wasn’t my own personal inhibition, but it was definitely in my mind in a response to our household not being able to get it together.

THERAPIST: Okay, so I think I see the light more clearly now. So, for example, with your writing, with the novel, you might say that you’re in the getting everything together phase now, and you’re worried that you could remain at that phase forever.

CLIENT: Phase, you know, ad infinitum, right.

THERAPIST: And never sort of get the story organized.

CLIENT: Yeah. write the story out, and choose from the, you know, the various possible adventures, yeah, definitely. We’re probably coming close to the end. All right.

THERAPIST: Yeah, just think about tomorrow morning.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, let me give Jennie (sp) a ring and see what she’s feeling.

THERAPIST: And if that’s not good, we’ll be next Tuesday.

CLIENT: Next Tuesday, yeah. Okay, talk to you soon.

THERAPIST: Great news about Grayson’s checkup.

CLIENT: Thank you, thank you. See you soon.

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