TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Last night I was getting ridiculous and Dave ended up drawing a statistical model of my social graph and how many social events I go to. And how many hops away various people are from knowing each other. And a lot was made up numbers to prove a point but – (chuckles). He ended up demonstrating to my satisfaction that no there isn't such a thing as karma. It's just random happenstance. (laughter) But there has just been a – I don't know. A lot of stuff in the last few weeks that have been reminding me of my bad ex-boyfriend.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I was sort of feeling like – the thing I said that Dave said was ridiculous that prompted all of this was "I feel like I dared the universe to stir up all these old memories and take all this old business off the table and make me deal with it." But messaging Ashley on (inaudible). [00:01:06]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: That's going to be part of it. But there has been other stuff that's completely unrelated to that.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause at 00:01:16 until 00:01:37)

THERAPIST: And Dave pretty much had like a PowerPoint presentation?

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:01:41) But yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:01:44) or –

CLIENT: Yeah. So what happened was – going back to last summer. There was – I don't even remember what happened. But there was something that happened in the Science Fiction publishing world that made me angry. [00:02:06]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And so I talked to Dave about maybe we could subsidize one of these magazines that doesn't suck so they can pay a pro rate to their authors.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So that would've ended up costing about twelve hundred dollars a year. And Dave was like, "Are you kidding me? What's wrong with you?"

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But anyway. The magazine that I picked which is one that I really enjoy reading – Expanded Horizons – one of the editors is someone I know through the Internet. And have known for a while through the Internet. And they have a co-editor named Zappa who I thought I didn't know.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: As it turns out Zappa went to school with me.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Zappa was an online pseudonym. Zappa was actually a person who used to be best friends with my evil ex-boyfriend.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: And had angst about me. I don't know. So I was talking to the person I know who is at this magazine (inaudible). And said, "How much would it cost –" [00:03:07]

THERAPIST: The editor.

CLIENT: Mm?

THERAPIST: He's the editor?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And said, "How much would it cost – let's talk numbers."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: "What do you need?" And (inaudible at 00:03:17) said, "I want to bring in my co-editor on this." And I said, "Sure that's fine."

THERAPIST: As long as it's somebody I never knew.

CLIENT: Well no. Like that's fine. (inaudible at 00:03:27)

THERAPIST: (inaudible) Yeah.

CLIENT: Right. So anyway I was having this conversation with (inaudible at 00:03:32) where he was going to forward my e-mail to Zappa. And then three days later I get an IM from my friend Lori who I also went to school with. I've known since we were freshmen.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:03:41) so Zappa thinks they know you but isn't sure and really wants to know your legal name. Because I was using a pseudonym on the Internet.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I said, "Well why does Zappa think they know me?" And Lori said "Well Zappa went to school with us and graduated in 2003. So there is a good likelihood." I was like, "Oh. A person from school. And not (inaudible at 00:04:05) feel better." And a few hours later I get another IM message saying, "Zappa is completely freaking out." [00:04:13]

Like what do you want me to do about that? (chuckles) So according to Lori, Zappa has been continuously freaking out at Lori about my identity since last summer. (pause at 00:04:27 until 00:04:33) And I still have – at that point I still had no idea who this person was. So I said, "Ask Zappa for information to tell me their legal name so I have some idea who they are." Because all I'm hearing was "Zappa thinks I'm a terrible person. I think they're a terrible person. Thinks that I want to invest in the magazine to take it over from them." All kinds of like – well there is no evidence for this.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But like Lori never got Zappa's permission to tell me who Zappa was. As it turns out Zappa showed up to a dinner party last night that I was at. And I did not in fact recognize Zappa. It was as if I had met them for the first time but as we've talked about before I have major holes in my memory from –. [00:05:22]

THERAPIST: Right. Right. Do you mind if I just shut the shades behind you a little bit?

CLIENT: Oh sure. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Because –

CLIENT: And I realize this is starting to sound Days of Our Lives but bear with me. It starts to make sense. It's possible I've been introduced to Zappa before and I just don't remember it. But I'm sure we never really actually knew each other knew each other. But after the dinner party I was driving Lori back to her girlfriend's house she's visiting from out of town. Lori lives in Montana. But I was driving Lori back to her girlfriend's house –. [00:05:59]

THERAPIST: Had you prior to last night known who Zappa was?

CLIENT: No. No idea.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I was like – so the woman sitting next to you at dinner I thought was Zappa. Right? Because I have been trying to figure it out. Not putting a lot of effort into it but for example I was getting lunch with a group friends a couple of Saturdays ago and we were talking about various gossip in our community and someone mentioned Zappa's name. And I said, "Oh you know Zappa? I've been trying to figure out who they are because they think they know me from college. And I don't remember them." He like described them to me. Like that sort of – not expending a lot of effort or (inaudible at 00:06:40) over it. But you know if the opportunity came up.

THERAPIST: Right. (inaudible at 00:06:41) Yeah.

CLIENT: But anyway. So I said, "Lori was that person sitting next to you Zappa?" Because the person sitting next to her at dinner was wearing a (inaudible at 00:06:50) and had mentioned being class of ‘03 and had mentioned going to law school and had mentioned a couple of hobbies that I know Zappa has. And Lori is like, "Yeah that was Zappa." I was like, "I am completely confident I don't know this person. Their face is not familiar to me. Like nothing about them is familiar to me. " And Lori is like, "Oh well that Zappa. Don't tell them I told you that." I was like, "Oh! Okay that makes sense." Because she had been best friends with my evil ex-boyfriend back in the day. [00:07:24]

THERAPIST: Back in the day.

CLIENT: So I was like, "Why does she think I hate her? And why does she think I want to steal her magazine from her?" I was going to make a donation for God's sake. So as it turns out Zappa dated my evil ex after I did. And thinks I think she stole him from me. And also their relationship was just as abusive and terrible as mine was with him except Zappa never really came to terms with that. Or put the blame where it lies on the abusive boyfriend. So there is just like a mess of – I don't even want to speculate about what's going on in their head. But they are very clearly dealing with some shit right now. [00:08:22]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. They being Zappa?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Sorry. Zappa prefers gender neutral pronouns.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: So do many of my friends, which makes the number of the pronouns I use sometimes unclear.

THERAPIST: Gotcha. Right.

CLIENT: So yeah. That – (pause at 00:08:46 until 00:08:54) I mean obviously I can't manage Zappa's anxieties for them or like really do anything about this but both (inaudible at 00:09:03) and Lori contacted me late last night to say, "Someone I know who does not want to named would like your e-mail address so they can get in touch with you. Can I have permission to give them your e-mail address?" It's like "Oh God. Sure. Fine." [00:09:20]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: (sighs)

THERAPIST: Do you know about how many times you had met or seen Zappa in college? I know part of the point is you really can't remember.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean – well so after Phil and I broke up things were really ugly. And I ended up having to walk away from a bunch of social circles. Like people were picking sides and driving me out. And so at most there was a span of about eighteen months where we would have run into each other. I don't know. We might have run into other at gaming nights and parties a couple of dozen times maybe at most.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: (sighs) And of course I was a very different person then. I was a very reactionary right wing conservative. Appalling politics. Very in your face evangelical Christian. There are a lot of people who knew me then who really disliked me with good reason. So that could be but – I don't know. I don't get the sense that that's actually the issue. [00:10:50]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: From what Lori has told me.

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah I mean what you've described relates it much more to having dated Phil after you did.

CLIENT: I feel bad for them. I feel a little bit guilty that I didn't tell people how terrible Phil really was. I kept a lot of it private out of shame and guilt and all of that. I didn't really talk about it to anyone until years and years after the fact. And part of me wonders if I had told people about some of the terrible things Phil did to me like maybe they wouldn't have dated Phil. And then wouldn't be scarred and traumatized now. And I don't know. (pause at 00:11:40 until 00:13:26)

THERAPIST: Well –sorry. From what I understand you're terrified about being judged in terms of who you were then. [00:13:40]

CLIENT: Yes. (pause at 00:13:42 until 00:13:52)

THERAPIST: And – (pause at 00:13:52 until 00:14:08). I imagine that (inaudible) think about who you were then.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:14:20)

THERAPIST: And imagine other people (inaudible) talking about it. And probably me as well. (pause at 00:14:25 until 00:14:41) I think that we (inaudible) back then (inaudible). [00:14:49] (pause until 00:14:57)

CLIENT: A little bit yeah. I mean I am still friends with people who knew me then.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And mostly come to terms with occasionally people like Lori or Marcy are going to bring up really embarrassing, stupid things I did thirteen years ago and we can all have a good laugh about it. And move on. (pause at 00:15:16 until 00:15:37)

THERAPIST: I wonder if you're also feeling a kind of a longing to be (inaudible at 00:15:47) a little more. Or to know that the people around (inaudible) a little more. Kind of who you were and how you've changed. [00:15:55]

CLIENT: Meaning? (pause at 00:15:57 until 00:16:09)

THERAPIST: Well I feel like you also want to come to terms with who you were then and how it would be okay with the people (inaudible at 00:16:17).

CLIENT: Mm. Yeah but nothing about the things I did was (inaudible at 00:16:25). I mean I guess I have to come to peace with that first before I can (inaudible at 00:16:33). People I know being able to deal with it.

THERAPIST: I guess you told me about a bit of it but I imagine you're pretty wary of that. Saying more. [00:16:51]

CLIENT: Well not just that but it's painful to think about even if I'm not talking about it. Right? Like it's not so much about if I say the words I'll be judged. It's thinking about them and remembering them is difficult and painful and unpleasant.

THERAPIST: I see. And –

CLIENT: I mean my values and ethics have changed so much and so many of the things that I did which I thought at the time were completely justified are just horrifying to me now. (pause at 00:17:29 until 00:17:51)

THERAPIST: I can see you really don't like who you were.

CLIENT: No. (pause at 00:17:53 until 00:18:06)

THERAPIST: Do you feel hateful towards who you were then?

CLIENT: I always feel hateful towards myself. [00:18:14]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don't feel particularly more hateful to the myself I was then than I do any other version of myself. I think I'm just embarrassed. (pause at 00:18:34 until 00:19:38)

THERAPIST: I see. And I gather most of it it's really painful and (inaudible) to think about. [00:19:44]

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: And you're being confronted with it because of stuff that's going on now.

CLIENT: I mean I knew that this would happen when I messaged Ashley (inaudible at 00:20:01). This does not surprise me in the least. I mean the thing with Zappa surprises me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But the overall theme of facing old business doesn't surprise me. And I think I'm doing a relatively good job of coping. And I'd also say things with Ashley are going well enough that it has definitely been worth it.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: That doesn't make it easy.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (pause at 00:20:30 until 00:20:43)

CLIENT: And I wasn't prepared for the guilt that I'm feeling over having not told people. Having not disclosed about everything. Some of the other stuff. [00:20:59]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: At the time. And I mean I know my politics say that (inaudible at 00:21:08) has an obligation to disclose your report. And you do what you have to do to stay safe and sane. And that's all fine and good as political theory or as social policy but it's not doing much good to make me stop feeling guilty for not telling people.

THERAPIST: Right. You're saying it's nobody else?

CLIENT: Mm?

THERAPIST: Nobody else has an obligation.

CLIENT: Yes because I have a double standard for myself. I mean even recognizing that it's a double standard and that this is a known character flaw of mine that I set double standards for myself that are much higher than for anyone else.

THERAPIST: Yeah. My impression –

CLIENT: But it doesn't change the feelings.

THERAPIST: My impression is it's a lot along the lines of wishing you could've protected some other people. [00:22:01]

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. (pause at 00:22:02 until 00:22:14)

THERAPIST: In part because you know all too well what's it like to have no (inaudible at 00:22:17). (pause until 00:25:09) What's on your mind?

CLIENT: Oh just thinking. The worst part of it is that I really did I love him. (pause at 00:25:24 until 00:26:57) And of course all of my feelings about Phil and the past me and Zappa and all of those are blurring together with thoughts and feelings about my parents. I don't know. Parent stuff has been coming up in my mind a lot lately also.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: I think in part because I'm really, really, really dreading this trip with them. [00:27:25]

THERAPIST: (inaudible) in May?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: When is it?

CLIENT: May 18th to (inaudible at 00:27:33).

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Actually reminds me – I meant to tell you (inaudible at 00:27:37) hour. I am going to be away two weeks from today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) second half of that.

CLIENT: Uh-huh.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:27:47)

CLIENT: Okay. Two weeks (inaudible). Got it.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:27:54)

CLIENT: But yeah. Parents. Yeah. (pause at 00:28:08 until 00:28:22)

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause at 00:28:22 until 00:29:12)

CLIENT: I used to say, "Oh my parents called me names and made fun of me but at least they never hit me." But the more I think about what actually happened and piece together memories the more I realize that's not actually true. They actually did hit me. Never bad enough to leave marks or put me in the hospital or anything (inaudible) but they hit both of us (inaudible). [00:29:48]

Really violent with my younger sister. I remember the time when my mom grabbed my younger sister by the throat and pinned her against the wall and choked her. (pause at 00:29:59 until 00:30:10) I think I liked the happy lie. "Oh they were socially maladapted but they weren't mean or they never hit me." Like that was much easier to live with. (sighs) (pause at 00:30:22 until 00:31:31)

THERAPIST: Well I would guess easier in some ways and harder in others. It's easier (inaudible at 00:31:39) with them but harder in that (inaudible) sense. (inaudible at 00:31:47) start to remember. Or why you always feel hateful to yourself. [00:31:52]

CLIENT: Mm.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:31:54)

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:32:00) (pause until 00:32:13)

THERAPIST: I guess my point is I think in that way it had a pretty significant cost.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:32:20) that's really not (inaudible). [00:32:21]

CLIENT: Sure. (pause at 00:32:22 until 00:35:32)

THERAPIST: I think let's stop.

CLIENT: Mm.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:35:35)

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:35:38] [End of audio]

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