TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I might not have, but I got called impromptu. I don’t know about this. I got called impromptu to deliver flowers today. I guess Lebanese Day is overloaded because the marathon and people send flowers to each other. So, I’m doing that.

THERAPIST: Which, which florist do you do it for?

CLIENT: Providence City Florist. THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: I had a delivery, so I, fortunately, I’m right around the corner.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah. Over by the law school?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Hey, so, just to maybe. I know we, we brought up the whole issue of, of going off insurance and everything.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And, so, I realized that I probably didn’t do a good job of explaining what, what the story was with the, with the core days and everything.

CLIENT: Why? I understood sufficiently.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But, I don’t know what would happen. I don’t know if we’d have to go to one meeting or what.

THERAPIST: Well, I guess it might depend on, on what you feel like you can, you can afford.

CLIENT: I can’t even afford what we’re doing right now.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:01:30]

THERAPIST: What do you do for money?

CLIENT: I’m delivering flowers, occasionally.

THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, your folks, will they pitch in?

CLIENT: I’m not going to ask them, no.

THERAPIST: You’re not going to ask them?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, here’s where, here’s, I mean they, they pay for $50 for each, each meeting and, and I mean what, what I can do is I can, I mean I can just keep it at the, at the $90, but that would mean you would have to come up with $40 a session.

CLIENT: $40 a session?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. That’s a little steep.

THERAPIST: And, you know, if, if you can’t find, if you can’t find work in time for June, what we could do is, well, I don’t know what your plan is. I mean are you planning on trying to find more work?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I’m going to apply at a few places.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: Just more than I... (inaudible at 00:02:52)

THERAPIST: The other thing I will say is, like, if it comes to the point that we get to June and we, and we haven’t, we haven’t found something or we haven’t found another solution to it, I think what I could do is I could, you know, do one of two things and maybe I’ll think about it a little bit more. Either have you carry a balance, if you feel comfortable with that or, or to try to figure out. I don’t know. I’ll have to think about that. You think of stuff too. What you feel we should do too. It might be, it might be that another thing is you might have to come down. If it comes down to it, maybe having to cut one of the two out.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I mean, it, it might seem obnoxious to you, but, but for me $20 for me is like 50 percent of my discretionary income. [00:04:10]

THERAPIST: You’re not making any money. Yeah.

CLIENT: Right. But, once I get famous, we’ll have sessions like every day.

THERAPIST: (laughter) Why stop at every day? How about twice a day?

CLIENT: (laughter) I’ll just put you on retainer. I went to, I injured me knee a little bit, so I went to, I tried to change to a different like medical place nearer to where I live, but there’s a lot of paperwork and for like Mass General you have to wait like six weeks for them to like process you and like get you in to their system or something. It’s a weird process and like every hospital around is like Mass General or if they’re not Mass General, they’re not taking patients or you have to like, you have to jump through hoops basically to, to do it. So, it’s just easier for me if I want to be seen is to go to the place where my dad works. Though I don’t see him as a doctor. So, I went there.

THERAPIST: This is for your leg? [00:05:30]

CLIENT: Yeah. For my leg. So, I went there just to, just to get a checkup. You know, I, I know people from my dad’s office because I used to walk there before practice and hang out for a bit. So, they sort of know me and we had sort of friendly conversations, but I, you know, the last two times I’ve gone there, I haven’t stopped in to see my dad. And this time, especially, I, I sort of felt disinclined to, to visit him. So, it’s kind of an unusual position where, you know, I felt sort of, like, realizing the I felt an urge to sort of deprive him of, of contact with me. Almost as a, like in a spiteful way. Though I’m, I’m not sure it, it hurts him as much as it does me because I, I love my father and I think he loves me too, but like I was saying last time, I don’t think he really respects me at all.

THERAPIST: Oh. [00:06:45]

CLIENT: Along those lines, I mean my mother called me like two days ago. Last night, actually and she was saying are you okay, are you okay? I just don’t respond to those kinds of text messages and then she calls. So, and I answer and she said are you okay and I said, yeah, I’m fine. Just a general question she was asking me. She asked if I could come late last night, so that I could drive both of them to the airport this morning because they were flying out to pick up my brother and they’re returning to a different airport. So, it would be easier for them to get to their jobs on Saturday if I drove them early in the morning and then they could fly back to the airport and then just somehow it would be easier because they don’t have a car left at, at Norwood. They’re flying back to Liverpool or something. It was sort of an inversion of, of what had happened when I was walking the marathon route. Where I was, it was late at night and I, I needed assistance and it didn’t come and it was for something that was very important to me and this time she was asking, you know, whether I could do this because it would make it easier for them to, to go out there. And, so I just, I was irritated without really understanding why and I just, I said yeah, sure, I’ll come tonight and sort of hung up basically. [00:08:25]

But, I, I thought about it for like, I don’t know, nine minutes, and I just decided to, to text back that I’m, I’m not coming. She called and said why and I said I don’t want to and that’s it. And, so, I mean I felt quite a bit better after doing that. It’s unusual. Like, I feel like I, I felt this sort of transition in, in realizing that, that my parents weren’t really there to help me with things that were important to me. I think I sort of passed in to a new, a new phase, but with that new phase, you know, I’m like I think it was strange because my mother, she texted me before any of this, but after that, that realization, she texted me something like do, do good things in your life. Which that seemed to like serendipitously acknowledge the transition that I, that I felt myself without any other conversation. [00:09:30]

I hate talking about texts, but that’s, that’s how it’s happening, but afterwards, it’s almost like this claw back. Like, she wants to find some excuse to like pull me back in or a, and in a sense control me or, or control her access to me and trying to get me back in to that dependency. I mean she tried to get me to watch the dog and all these little things that maybe they need help with, but I suspect that it’s not really urgent. I went in to, the day I went to, to get my knee fixed I went home because I needed access to my health care. I’m on father’s health insurance, at least until, until I turn 26 and so, I needed the, the forms. So, I went in there. Almost like a spy. Like, I went in and I said hello to my dog. That wasn’t spy like, but I, I sort of went through the desk pretty efficiently and found an unopened envelope. I opened it. [00:10:30]

I might be a violation of federal law, but it’s just it had all our insurance names on it and so I just got the numbers that I needed and got out of there and filed my taxes a week late. I went to the office. In the office, people were saying hello to me and I told them about my knee and why it was injured and they said oh, that’s great. We’re happy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, they said, you know, can I say to your, are you going to say hi to your dad and I said no. They said can I say hi for you because of this whole confidentiality thing and I said yeah, sure. You know, I’m not going to visit him in his office, you know, where he doesn’t have a picture of me. Where, you know, it’s all on, on his terms. He wouldn’t see me when I needed something, and, so I’m not going to go in there and just, even though I want to see him, I’m not going to go in there. I mean he called me afterwards and he was, he was sort of bubbly. It was painful because he’s, he’s a positive person, but he called me afterwards and he, he said hey, so they told me you were in the office today. You know, no, no duplicity about it. I mean, he’s like you’re injured a little bit from walking and I just gave like one word answers because I wasn’t going to talk about it. It’s not, you know, he, he had a chance to... [00:12:00]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: To share something, but he, he wouldn’t. He can’t do it, except on like his, his time is his time. I can’t, I can’t cross that bridge anymore. I can’t believe him. I don’t think.

THERAPIST: I see. Yeah. Yeah. Even though you want, you want that, but if it comes late it kind of feels like, I imagine you might feel like a bit of a defeat to, to kind of tell him at that point. Even if you might want to on some level.

CLIENT: It is, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean didn’t get anything I wanted out of it. Yeah. I mean, I’d just like to see and it’s weird. I, I don’t want to put like little roadblocks, like artificial roadblocks in the way, but I’m not sure what to do.

THERAPIST: But, in some way, if you, if you capitulate you will feel like you have lost the opportunity to do something, to shift something

CLIENT: Yeah and I mean it’s going to come up again. I mean, I’m going to have opportunities to see him and maybe if it’s not related to my injury or anything, which it’s pretty minor, but, you know, if it’s not related in any way, I’ll be fine with it. But, it’s, it’s strange. I, I don’t feel like I can, you know, join my parents or spend time with them and maintain my individuality.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: That’s the thing. Yeah. [00:13:30]

THERAPIST: Yeah. As you say, almost like if you, in order to have contact with them is, is it based upon like you losing your individuality or your mom putting calls in to you and sort of saying hey, do something for us.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, if you do that, then you would lose the sense of like, well, what about what you respect in me as somebody that’s an adult that’s...

CLIENT: Yeah. And, myself too. What about me?

THERAPIST: What about you, yeah.

CLIENT: What about what I think? I mean that day she called me to watch the dog or whatever I’m thinking okay, I’ve got to, you know, I have to take out an enterprising and I have this, this and this to do and then she calls sort of like on cue. It’s like can you take care of the dog? So, I just don’t say anything about what to do. I, I like my dog. I don’t think it’s something that I should be spending time on though. Like, going home and staying there with the dog. I mean what was that? I had a nightmare. (pounding noise) You following the play offs at all?

THERAPIST: You mean the NBA?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Brooklyn.

THERAPIST: Brooklyn’s not playing so well.

CLIENT: Okay. I mean they had a good finish to the season, but they lost to Chicago. I don’t know what’s up with that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, they lost, so they’re down two to one.

CLIENT: Two to one. I signed up for like ten fantasy leagues. [00:15:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. You were saying.

CLIENT: So, I won seven of them.

THERAPIST: How’s that?

CLIENT: Good.

THERAPIST: What is it? A playoff based league? Is it based on?

CLIENT: No, it just ends at the regular season.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: So, but I, I found a new play off league thing. It’s like.

THERAPIST: You can do fantasy based off the playoff statistics?

CLIENT: Yeah. I think you have to like, you pick one player per day or something. So, I’m doing that.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Yeah, actually, I won six of the leagues. There’s ten, sometimes more, but there’s at least ten in each league. I won six. I won the, I got second in the seventh one, but the seventh one, one of the guys, he had like two teams and then he, he traded all of the good people for like LeBron James and whatever to this one team, so he had like seven. So, I got second that week, but I count it as first. [00:16:00]

THERAPIST: You count is as first. (laughter) He should be DQ’d, right?

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. It’s a struggle though. Like, fantasy to me represents like everything about evaluating and sort of, not superficially, but, but discriminating in a very calculated way and, you know, the discriminations, they may not have relevance in the real world, but they, they’re still, they’re satisfying in some way or you can arrogate some sort of pleasure from it. But, it’s, so, it’s something I’m somewhat adept at, but I, you know, the whole thing with ratings and it’s sort of a flash bulb or I don’t know, like almost a Latin quality of, of nonchalance. It’s something I’m slowly drifting away from and losing contact with, quite literally. I guess figuratively as well. Yeah, and literally too.

THERAPIST: What has been the, what has been the situation? Have you seen her since she, she has moved out?

CLIENT: She has moved out.

THERAPIST: And, have you, do you have any contact with her any longer?

CLIENT: No. None.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay. [00:17:35]

CLIENT: I told her, her fiancé everything about what happened. And, also what I suspect had happened between her Edgar. So, I’m not sure she knew that before she left, but she probably found out. Her fiancé was asking me. You know, that’s something, I mean I don’t, I feel sort of dubious about that.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: Well, I felt like he had a right to the truth, but at the same time, you know, what I considered the truth included my suspicions about rates and Edgar. I mean I guess it’s up to him to judge, but I still felt almost like an informant. I was reduced in some way to, I don’t think it was motivated by spite, but I don’t know. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: You know. What do you think? What, what lead you to want to tell him?

CLIENT: Probably a desire to have her, her stay, maybe at the time. I mean this is if that relationship broke up then I mean she might stay.

THERAPIST: She might stay.

CLIENT: But, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: It’s one way to fight for her, I suppose. [00:19:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. I think, I mean she is manipulative, but there is still, there is something about someone who’s manipulative with me. It’s still a relationship you’re sure of. You know, I mean it’s, it’s satisfying to have a girl climb up on top of you and just do like do what she wants. It’s, it’s, it’s nice. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Well it is contact.

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s, it’s even if it’s not this, I think, even if it’s not the best relationship, it’s reliable. It’s absolutely reliable to be used by somebody. It’s just so.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, yet you’re saying about like your folks that there’s, that they, that like in a way yeah, you can be used as the reliable, dependent guy to go home, but you don’t want to be used that way. Or, the guy that will kind of, you know, take on like a son role in a particular light, but you’re trying to establish something else beyond that.

CLIENT: If, if I do take on a, I don’t know, I don’t know. With my parents, I don’t feel, I don’t think I can be reliable and I don’t think if I were, they would, it would, that it still wouldn’t be stable in any way.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay. [00:20:20]

CLIENT: No. Not at all. It’s impossible to have a stable relationship with my mother, especially. Though, the episode with, with my father. You know, I feel like I, I hope I don’t sound like I’m blaming him, because I accept his, his decision not to participate. It’s only indicative of or it helps to clarify a sort of pattern I hadn’t really realized before. But, I, I also, I wonder whether I, I’ve sort of piled on to my mother over the years in that, in a way, all of this is good, I mean I’m just digging up for you, but I mean piled on to my mother in a way to try and conspire against her with my father. You know, try and get my, try to participate with my father in something. You know. So, I wonder if, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: When you say pile on your mother what do you mean?

CLIENT: I mean just sort of, I mean in criticizing her there would be a oneness with him I suppose. I don’t know. I remember particularly when my first parents first learned about Birmingham. I mean they found out I, they found it before I did actually. I was an inhabited island for that summer, so I came back for the weekend and they were there and they, said oh, my mother said, I’m so sorry. You can do this, this, this. You should really, you’ve got to keep moving up. She was totally right, but I was not prepared to hear that. She was saying like, you know, there’s this writer’s colony in Vermont. You’ve got to keep moving. You can’t let this bring you down. I wasn’t ready to hear that and I remember just dismissing her and walking with my father almost like the emperor invader and she was sort of like, she was off on the side like some vice admiral or something. I, I, and I said something dismissive. I dismissed her verbally in some way and started talking with my dad. [00:22:30]

I don’t know. You know. It’s a possibility that for whatever reason, that my mother hasn’t been very stable. And, you know, I have criticized her. Partly by her own standards, the standards she, she raised me to, but, you know, I wonder whether part of the reason is to try to... I don’t know. Try to join in league with my father. I have no idea. The fact was that my dad just wasn’t around for me. He does his work. I mean, he’s a doctor. He’s a good doctor. That’s what he does all the time. So. I don’t think he even takes vacation though he has the options. Also, I found out that my dad’s a lot better off than I, looking through those tax forms, I found out that my dad’s a lot better off than I thought.

THERAPIST: What did that mean to you? [00:23:45]

CLIENT: Well, a couple of things. I mean it didn’t really affect me. It’s just my idea of him changed a little bit. I thought he made like 150K, but he makes 300K a year. So, it’s like yeah. I guess I can, I wouldn’t say that it particularly means something to me, but it sort of, it, it underlines with very, very concrete terms the fact that I’m, I’m sort of like invulnerable in a kind of, in a, in terms of that scaffolding. Like, I, you know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t get down and out if I wanted to. Like, I’ve had so many chances I think. I’ve, you know, I’ve, I’ve dismissed incredible opportunities and, you know, if I didn’t have the scaffolding he provided, I would be someplace very different. Very, very different. But, by the same token, it has sort of prevented me, I think, I don’t know how valid this is, but it has prevented me from, from owning anything. Actually owning or have that experience. [00:25:10]

THERAPIST: Right. Right. Right. Right. Like, you can depend on them means that, that you’re never independent of them in a certain way.

CLIENT: Yeah and like I, I’ve never asked for much, but it’s still true, that, you know, I stayed home for quite a while and at least am able to, you know, he’ll toss, you know, probably like three thousand or four thousand dollars my way at odd moments when it was really crucial. And, you know, like somebody else would, would have to scramble under those circumstances. I remember particularly in the and I guess we’re out of time.

THERAPIST: Again, what are you thinking?

CLIENT: Well, I, I remember last September I had the option of signing a lease or I would have to figure out something to do on the lease I had. I had some money stored up, but the lease is like a year commitment and I didn’t have a job so it’s, it’s something I had to think about. And, I think I needed, I needed money in that situation. Like, maybe I didn’t have something saved up. I remember working frantically on my business. Getting it in to working shape. [00:26:30]

And, also, during that time my mother wanted, she said, she was really pissed off when I first said that I’m kind of in trouble and then she said alright, I’m willing to help you, but, you know, I have to meet the landlord and I have to talk to him which would be hugely embarrassing because the landlord is one year older than me and it just seemed that, that was what was motivating me actually to work. It’s just that I was not going to face down that situation. I was going to get money together to avoid that embarrassment. And, well, what happened was I think my dad just, just threw a check my way and after that, I just stopped working. I just, I mean you could get through like, I don’t know, it was like a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars. So, it’s like problem solved and he made my mother back down.

THERAPIST: But, the benefit is that it removed that kind of sense that you were going to initiate something yourself for yourself.

CLIENT: In one minute, the threat and then one minute the response to the threat.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Alright. Let’s pick up on Tuesday.

CLIENT: Yeah. I wish I would have come on time.

THERAPIST: What was that?

CLIENT: I wish I could have come on time. Thanks for calling me.

THERAPIST: Yeah, sure.

CLIENT: I’m glad we finally get to meet Tuesday.

THERAPIST: Tuesday. Right.

CLIENT: Tuesday. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Alright.

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