TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: Are we scheduled next week? I think we are.
CLIENT: We're meeting Tuesday for Chinese food, catch a movie. I want to see the movie where they kill Osama Bin Laden. I don't know if you wanted to see something else. I have got...
THERAPIST: I've got Friday.
CLIENT: I've got Friday.
THERAPIST: And then the following Friday?
CLIENT: Yep, but nothing on the 1st. (pause) Let's hope I can make it...the loneliness of the holidays (chuckle).
THERAPIST: Are you seeing people? [00:00:55]
CLIENT: I'm going to hang out with people on Christmas Eve. I have no plans for Christmas.
THERAPIST: Will you see the kid?
CLIENT: What's that?
THERAPIST: Are you going to see the kids?
CLIENT: On Christmas?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don't know. I mean, it's not my holiday. (pause) I always thought I'd at least get invited to Thanksgiving or Christmas because my kids were there and I haven't been. (pause) I don't know...if I'm wrong or not, you know. But... (pause) oh well. There's nothing I can do about it. I'm not going to invite myself. [00:02:00]
THERAPIST: Well it doesn't mean you want to see them on Christmas. It's not your holiday. It's their holiday.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I don't know what time they go out. I'll maybe see them in the morning. (pause) So I can watch all the parades. That will be fun. (pause)
So I've had a harrowing couple of days here with this closing that didn't happen on Tuesday. It happened last night. (sigh) I realized that I didn't have the payoff another payoff story and... (pause)
THERAPIST: So the payoff is the money for the seller?
CLIENT: No, this is a refinance so the payoff is their mortgage we're refinancing.
THERAPIST: Their money towards (ph) the mortgage or something.
CLIENT: Right. And this loan is what they call a rate and term which means that they can't get any cash back. They can get up to 350 dollars. You've got to have everything...either they're bringing money or you've got to reduce the principal. But they want to review the payoff statement. And you need the payoff statement to kind of run the numbers and it's this company I've never heard of before. They want me to fax over an authorization and it just was really uncomfortable closing on Tuesday. So closing on Wednesday it would still fund on Monday so there's no rate lock problem. And I called them after it had been 48 hours and they told me...initially they told me three to five days. And then after a day I called to see if they at least got it and what the status was and they told me they got it and that I'd have it tomorrow tomorrow being yesterday. And I called about 1:00-2:00, maybe 1:30 yesterday and they told me my authorization was invalid because it didn't have a date on it. I've been using that authorization I stole it from a previous law firm I was working at so we're talking thousands of closings this authorization's been used on. And they want a date. [00:04:35]
So they're like, "Have the borrower call in and then it will be another 24 to 72 hours." So the processor, all pissed off, calls up and pretends she's the borrower (laughter) and orders the payoff and chews them out, which is like oh that's a good way to get them to respond and send you something is to yell at them (chuckle).
THERAPIST: (laughter)
CLIENT: So we've got that going on.
THERAPIST: Wait, who's the processor?
CLIENT: She's the one who works for the mortgage broker. She kind of....you know, getting your W-2s...she's the link between the borrower and getting the stuff to underwriting. And they called the county executive and the county executive is like, "Close the loan. As long as we have the payoff by the end of business on Friday, we're okay." So now I'm still in this waiting game. I closed it last night. And in fact I was walking out the door, I was like down the hallway when they called me and said, "Just estimate it and close it." And luckily the people are like five minutes around the corner from me so it's not that big a deal. [00:05:47]
But now it's like I'm in this waiting game again of is this payoff going to come before the end of the day tomorrow? And what's the repercussion there if it doesn't? At least...initially I felt bad. I thought it was kind of my fault for not ordering the payoff sooner but this closing came up on me quickly and (pause) I really had no excuse. I probably should have been on top of it in order to payoff but the fact that it's been this hard to get they're not blaming me (chuckle) or thinking of blaming me. So, hopefully it will come today and I won't have to worry about it but it's got me a bit anxious. And I'm tired of being anxious over these things. I really am. [00:06:33]
It's like I don't have a whole lot to do. I've got...Bella (ph) and I Yankee swapped today at our Christmas party. It's like I don't have a lot to distract me. It's keeping...it's distracting me from doing work. And I was talking to a client yesterday and she's like, "Are you up for doing this work as a common conversion?" And I was like, "Yeah!" And she's like, "You don't sound too good." I had to convince her that I was okay. I was like, "I'm just tired." I'm just...I've been waking up at three in the morning. But I've been falling asleep on the couch.
THERAPIST: At...?
CLIENT: I don't know 10:00, 9:00, 11:00. A different time every night. Sometimes early.
THERAPIST: And then you're up since 3:00 or you go back to sleep?
CLIENT: I go back to sleep around 4:30-5:00 and then woke up today around 7:20. Which my previous pattern had been to fall asleep real early and then wake up at 1:00 or 2:00, or midnight or 1:00, watch some TV, go to bed, and then wake up at 5:00 or 6:00, which didn't make me as tired as waking up. Like this morning I'm tired. I'm nauseous. I've got a lot of phlegm. I don't know if it's what I'm eating too. I'm eating a lot of crap. I can't eat cookies. My cookie jar idea? [00:08:15]
THERAPIST: No, from a management company.
CLIENT: Oh, nice. (pause) I don't think they gave you enough.
THERAPIST: Cookies?
CLIENT: Yeah. (chuckle) They must like you because I got the little chocolate thing. You guys have multiple boxes of cookies. Was it all stacked on top of each other? Yeah. That's nice. (sigh) So I'm just, you know...
THERAPIST: You're feeling crummy.
CLIENT: Just kind of been...you know but I'm wondering if it's not something else that's got me antsy. I'm antsy about something else and these little things are...I don't know. There's probably a term for that.
THERAPIST: Displacement?
CLIENT: Could be, yeah. I'm wondering if that's what's going on.
THERAPIST: Being alone on the holidays?
CLIENT: No, I haven't really given much thought to that. [00:09:18]
THERAPIST: Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that's not what's affecting you. Kind of the point is that whatever is affecting you, you're thinking about these other things. (pause) Although that doesn't necessarily mean that the holidays are affecting you. (pause) Well, what comes to mind?
CLIENT: I don't know. Maybe just like other stuff I have to do that I'm not doing.
THERAPIST: Well, loneliness.
CLIENT: That could be it. (pause) You say that kind of proud of yourself. (chuckle)
THERAPIST: (chuckle) Sorry. Is that what you want to talk about? (laughter)
CLIENT: [The answer?] (ph) (sigh) Yeah. What can I do?
THERAPIST: Talk about it.
CLIENT: (pause) I mean I seem busy in seeing people. Instead of calling them yesterday I went up to their office to say I've got that party and taking Ian to get fitted for his snowboarding equipment because I wanted to see the kids. They had Cub Scouts yesterday, saw the kids, and went afterwards.
THERAPIST: Yeah, it sounds like you've got several stuff going on, you're spending time with the kids and that's great, (pause) but...
CLIENT: Lucille made me dinner, supper.
THERAPIST: Nice! Is she a good cook? [00:11:07]
CLIENT: (inaudible) empty plate. Or should we say empty glass?
THERAPIST: [A third?] (ph) (pause)
CLIENT: I mean if you ask me how it makes me feel or what I'm thinking about, I don't know. I just...I don't know what to do about it. I'm not really...
THERAPIST: What to do about what?
CLIENT: Being lonely.
THERAPIST: (pause) How important is it?
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: What are you feeling?
CLIENT: How does it make you feel? (chuckle) Lonely? (pause) You know?
THERAPIST: Well you're really on your own.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) In all respects, yeah. (pause) Oh I got out of the closing and (pause) I had a voice-mail during the closing and it's from the guy who owns the mortgage broker company and he's telling me how they're not going to fund the loan that I just closed because I've got tax liens. So I'm explaining to him what I've got. I'm on a payment plan with the DR (ph), I'm working with (inaudible)...so I'm spilling my guts on everything that's going on. And he's like, "Whoa, whoa, wait. Hold on a second," because he keeps saying they're from ‘03-'04. I'm like I don't have tax (ph) from ‘03-'04. And he's like, "Wait a second, I just had your file on top of another file and this is for another closing," and I'm just like (chuckle)...I'm glad now you know my personal financial woes. But I was just like, are you kidding me? What am I going to do if I can't do closings for this company? That's going to cut into my business. But apparently it's not an issue, yet. I mean, maybe it's the age of the tax liens that's got them worried. [00:13:44]
THERAPIST: For that person?
CLIENT: For that person, the other (inaudible). What I should have said is, "Hey, if you can't close it, I'll do it." (pause) And John's one of these guys that just nothing fazes him. He's just like, "Don't worry about it."
THERAPIST: Who's he?
CLIENT: He's the guy who runs the company and...because we've dealt with some issues and he's just never (pause)...doesn't get upset and everything's going to work out. He's like, "Just estimate the payout. We'll deal with it tomorrow." You know, just...he's like, "Oh don't worry about it. I'll talk to them tomorrow. We'll get them whatever information they need." Like it never even occurred to him that they might not fund the loan. He's just...there's a way to get around it. Just so blasé about it and I'm like ready to die (chuckle) you know? So that was fun. [00:14:54]
(pause) Now I've got the closing with me and I'm going to go to FedEx and get it out to the lenders so they have it in time because they're not going to be there on Monday so they're going to fund the loan tomorrow. That's why they need the payoff by the end of the day tomorrow and not Monday. (sigh) So...and if they have to extend the rate lock it's going to cost the broker 1300 dollars on like a 4700 deal, so that's a good chunk of change.
(pause) (sigh)
THERAPIST: Well that certainly seems like that's something you could use a bunch more of is that kind of reassurance. It really goes a long way when you're sort of anxious or freaking out to have somebody who's just like, "It's cool. It'll be okay. Don't sweat it. Here's what we'll do. It's going to be alright."
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: It helps a lot. [00:16:19]
CLIENT: It helps that I send him a lot of business too. (pause) I haven't taken my medicine yet today which is [terribly late] (ph). I don't know how much, when I wake up, the nausea is anxiousness or maybe it's a combination. Some days seems worse than others. This morning was really bad. I mean I'm still nauseous right now. (pause) It could be the medication, I don't know. Usually it's the Prozac and I haven't taken any of that today.
THERAPIST: Maybe it's worrying about the (pause) loan. (pause) And also maybe a bit not looking forward to next week so much. (pause) Got stuff you're doing for New Years?
CLIENT: Not at the moment, no. (sigh) Not at the moment.
THERAPIST: That's crummy.
CLIENT: Do you have plans? (pause) Did I do anything last year? I don't know that I did anything last year. (pause) Way to bring me down! [00:18:38]
THERAPIST: (chuckle)
CLIENT: What other problems do you want to suck out of me? (pause) It shouldn't be hard. (chuckle)
THERAPIST: (laughter)
(silence from 00:19:09 to 00:19:59)
CLIENT: I'm really out of shape too. I haven't been exercising. I've had a lot to do, sleeping.
THERAPIST: Yeah that would probably make a big difference. What are you thinking...it's hard to be motivated when it's dark out.
CLIENT: Yeah I mean I do exercises inside the apartment, I'm just not motivated.
THERAPIST: [I'm aware of that.] (ph) Do push-ups and do squats. Helps with the heartbeat (ph) from what I understand.
CLIENT: I was doing so well and then I just...doing it every other day and then maybe every two days and then it just fell off. I've been riding my bike. They took my room. I can't even hook my bike up to the trainer because I've got no room to do it.
THERAPIST: Oh that sucks. [00:20:48]
CLIENT: (pause) I really felt it on Saturday when I went ice skating. My legs were sore and it was cold so my legs didn't warm up. I've never had problems ice skating. It might have been my skates needed sharpened but I had trouble skating. I fell down, which I never fall down. My helmet went flying off. Little kids come over, high school kids or whatever..."Are you alright sir?" (inaudible) (pause) I had to put a big smile on my face so they'd stop coming over. Seamus comes over, I'm sitting on my ass, and I'm like, "See, I told you you're a better skater than me." [00:21:56]
THERAPIST: So what would help you get back with exercise?
CLIENT: I don't know. I keep thinking, like when am I going to start? Tomorrow.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Would it be easier if you could use the bike trainer?
CLIENT: Yeah, I think it would be because I could do it watching TV. I don't know. It's easy for me to say. I don't know. I could just be using it as an excuse for why I don't cancel (ph) the bike.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Can you make room for it?
CLIENT: Not really. (chuckle)
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I've got all this crap in various nooks and crannies and I mean, not that it wouldn't make it easy. I'd have to move stuff out of the way and set it up then take it down.
THERAPIST: You could join a gym. [00:23:12]
CLIENT: Then I'd have to go.
THERAPIST: But it goes both ways because like sure, on one hand then you've got to motivate and actually get there but on the other hand, once you've already gotten there...
CLIENT: I'll find a reason to (inaudible). Oh, I ran for ten minutes, good!
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I can't afford a gym.
THERAPIST: They're cheap now. They're like 20 bucks a month or something.
(silence from 00:23:40 to 00:24:28)
See I think if you look at some of the ways you're feeling really crummy and down and anxious it will help.
(pause)
CLIENT: Really?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: How do I look at it?
THERAPIST: I think you probably know what I'm talking about.
CLIENT: I'm not really so sure.
THERAPIST: Really? What's your best guess?
CLIENT: I don't know.
(pause)
THERAPIST: My impression is that you're somewhat self-conscious of the ways you deflect (pause) my questions or comments about ways you feel, for example, sad or...
CLIENT: Well you ask very open-ended questions.
THERAPIST: Yeah?
CLIENT: So, you know, it's hard for me to answer those. (pause) Yes or no would be a lot easier. (chuckle) [00:25:44]
THERAPIST: Well that's kind of the point. I mean, (pause) part of the point anyway is for me to help you talk about things that are difficult to talk about and bear, feelings that are difficult to bear, because that tends to help. And that doesn't (pause)...I guess what you're saying is when things feel too difficult or overwhelming you don't know where to start if I ask an open-ended question.
CLIENT: Yeah, I'm mean I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to say. I'm lonely.
THERAPIST: Whatever comes to mind, and I guess what comes to mind is that you don't know what to say or...
CLIENT: Well for me it's like I kind of think to some degree is there a solution or...
THERAPIST: Well that's one very important aspect...
CLIENT: Then I just kind of accept it. It's like well, what can I do? [00:27:17]
THERAPIST: I don't think you necessarily appreciate the value of the ways that talking about what's going on, how you feel, can help you feel better, or talking over things that are very difficult or upsetting or making you anxious can change that.
CLIENT: Well it made me feel worse this morning.
THERAPIST: How so?
CLIENT: I don't know, I just felt more anxious talking about it and then I can't remember you brought up something...
THERAPIST: New Years?
CLIENT: Yeah. (chuckle) I mean I hadn't even thought about New Year's really. It didn't even cross my mind that would be a holiday where I'd have to worry about doing something.
THERAPIST: But it will, you know, sometime between now and then. Like not anticipating or thinking about it isn't going to make it go away. (pause) And it's likely to help you deal with it as it gets closer to talk about it. [00:28:43]
(pause)
I mean in a way, I guess another way like this is a (pause) one way unique use of me in therapy. You often talk about things (inaudible) making you anxious or that are difficult or that are frustrating and I do think you feel some relief from being able to talk about that stuff to get it off your chest, (inaudible) look at it, let me know about it. It does seem like you may be (inaudible) in that way but it (pause)...
CLIENT: You're talking about when I have problems with Jess?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Financial problems. [00:29:49]
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) But...
(silence from 00:29:57 to 00:30:21)
But there are other ones that loom pretty large for you that you don't talk about and that I think cause you a lot of trouble.
CLIENT: Cause me trouble or...? Emotional trouble?
THERAPIST: All kinds of trouble.
CLIENT: What's that?
THERAPIST: All kinds of trouble. Emotional trouble and some other kinds as well like, (inaudible) and feeling down and clearly feeling lonely clearly links to how you feel anxious. I mean you're talking today about how [you like] (ph) reassuring that somebody's there and kind of supportive. Makes you feel better, not surprisingly. That anxiety is not all together separate. [00:31:14]
CLIENT: (sigh)
THERAPIST: And you always, always, always leave it to me to bring it up.
CLIENT: Bring what up?
THERAPIST: (chuckle) Exactly! Other emotional stuff, I'm always like jumping around, waving my arms.
CLIENT: Do you get the impression that I don't like talking about that stuff?
THERAPIST: Well I get a few different impressions. One is that you don't like talking about that stuff and then there's that you are quite passive about it and sort of (pause) want other people to be laying around and taking responsibility for it. It's a little bit like the thing with you and Jess around certain things in the past. Not other things. There are other things that you are way more on top of and conscientious about than she was and that she was just (inaudible) and kind of flip out about. So I know there were a lot of things like that. But there were other things where (pause) you were sort of more passive and she would sort of like twist your arm or jump on you or make a big fuss to get you to do things. And this I think is more like that.
(silence from 00:32:48 to 00:33:07)
THERAPIST: And let me be clear, my intent is not to say that you're doing a bad job or you're doing this wrong. This is the sort of thing, like (pause) how you do that (pause) if that's true, there is (inaudible) material for therapy.
CLIENT: What's that?
THERAPIST: How you avoid these things, how you get past it, how things work out so the other person jumping around waving their arms about it and you're sort of enjoying needling them and still not doing it.
CLIENT: (chuckle) That's just you.
THERAPIST: (chuckle) But it isn't.
CLIENT: What was that word you used?
THERAPIST: Displacement?
CLIENT: No, you just...
THERAPIST: Therapy?
CLIENT: I don't know. There was something I heard...I thought I heard a big word (inaudible). I stopped paying attention to you for a moment there.
THERAPIST: Do you have much of an idea of what I said? Any idea? [00:34:34]
CLIENT: A little. I don't know what to do about it though.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Well what comes to mind?
CLIENT: (sigh) (pause) I don't know. I'm drawing a blank.
(silence from 00:35:07 to 00:37:28)
(inaudible) They always say don't get liquor and lottery tickets but to me liquor is the easiest. (pause) Last year I got a lobster.
THERAPIST: You mean that's what you brought or that's what you walked away with?
CLIENT: That's what I won.
THERAPIST: Oh! (chuckle)
CLIENT: The thing was half dying as I cooked it because it had been sitting in the car all day and it was kind of a warm day a day like today, not cold. Well it's cold now but it had been warm earlier. (pause) I had to borrow a pot from Jess. (inaudible) the pot. (pause) But that's me, wait till the last second. (inaudible) the partying.
(pause) I don't know what I'm supposed to say. I mean, I don't know what I'm supposed to say or talk about. [00:39:15]
THERAPIST: There is nothing in particular that you're supposed to say.
CLIENT: I know there's not something I'm supposed to say but I don't have anything to say. I can't come up with something to say. My mind just gets distracted with things. (pause) Like I can't stop thinking about what I've got to do today.
THERAPIST: Right, so then we look at when and (pause)...when your mind gets distracted and what it gets distracted with. I mean it seems pretty clear that it very often gets distracted when it comes to things like romance or taking responsibility in certain ways for how you feel or for things that are difficult. I think it's pretty clear that your mind very often gets distracted. And those things come up and then we look at what distracted it. I mean, are you thinking of the Yankee swap (ph) and what you're going to bring and how you always bring the thing you're not supposed to. (pause) And then you think of getting this lobster and kind of not having the right stuff to cook it and it being kind of in rough shape once you cooked it. So that makes me think that of course, you're talking about things here and you showed up with the wrong goods that I asked some questions, you don't know what to do with them, nothing comes to mind, you get distracted. It's like bringing something you're not supposed to bring to the Yankee swap (ph). You don't have the right goods to do what you're supposed to be doing here. And what do you get for me? The fucking lobster. Like I ask you these questions, you don't have the right thing to contain the question or deal with it. You're just feeling ill equipped. [00:41:22]
CLIENT: That's well done, by the way, how you worked it in with the Yankee swap (ph).
THERAPIST: (chuckle) Well I think this is actually how the mind works, that even...
CLIENT: Should we do some ink blots?
THERAPIST: We could, I mean, this is functioning kind of the same way. The data's pretty good on the ink blots.
CLIENT: Is it?
THERAPIST: The research, yeah.
CLIENT: I see a butterfly. Now what does that mean, you know if what people say is that give you a clue in to what they're thinking about? Does the blot really matter so much as what they say they see?
THERAPIST: With that test what matters is that you have results from thousands and thousands of people and you know a lot about those people and so even though you don't know the person taking the test particularly well you know what kind of people tend to give the sorts of responses they have and you can have some ideas as to why. [00:42:30]
CLIENT: What if someone gives a response there's no data on?
THERAPIST: Well that's pretty...
CLIENT: Rare?
THERAPIST: Pretty rare because there are thousands and thousands and thousands and it's often telling. We've got to stop for now but we can talk (inaudible).
CLIENT: (sigh) Merry Christmas!
THERAPIST: Thank you, you too.
CLIENT: Say hi to Santa for me. [00:43:12]
END TRANSCRIPT
